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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm already dreading it.
"Trust me." - Zack Snyder
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I think Steve Jobs would be a much better inspiration for Lex. The obsessive compulsive paranoid genius perfectionist nature of Jobs really fits how I imagine Luthor to be in a world where an earthling competes against a god.
But you do. This is a Superman movie and Superman is an iconic character in American culture. So yes, people are already invested in a way that they wouldn't be with an original work. This isn't the fault of the movie or the audience member, it's just a reality.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Yes.
Can Crusher
Banned
That's not how movies work. Scenes don't work because exterior material made them work. What you are describing is fandom, and what I was debating is how extreme fandom works at odds with your ability to judge Man of Steel on its merits.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Ahhh since JB1981 quoted you Can Crusher I'll respond...
1. I have not gone around mad at people, I have ranted about Returns talk taking over the thread. I even said I had some issues with the MOS, hell I still have it ranked under Superman the movie. I haven't attacked anyone for their criticisms or called out anyone regarding MOS. Do you have me confused with someone else? I simply agreed with a breakdown BobbyRoberts made about the destruction Supes caused. If you consider me calling out Sculli or others for the overload of Returns talk that started yesterday as "criticism" then I'm guilty of that, but not for MOS. edit- I did call Sculli nuts for thinking Lois and Clark is better than MOS, but thats it.
2. That scene has never been done on film, as a huge Superman fan it got to me for various reasons that go beyond just the movie. I also said I didn't expect it to have the effect it had on me, but it did. Guess that makes me not a huge Superman fan... I mean wtf
3. I even said I was going to be extra emotional cause I was sick and going with my dad. You seem to think you know me by my posts, you would have noticed that post before I even saw the movie. I have a chronic health condition, but sue me/ tell me I'm not a huge Superman fan for getting emotional from that scene cause you didn't.
I'm done with this, but had to get that off my chest.
1. I have not gone around mad at people, I have ranted about Returns talk taking over the thread. I even said I had some issues with the MOS, hell I still have it ranked under Superman the movie. I haven't attacked anyone for their criticisms or called out anyone regarding MOS. Do you have me confused with someone else? I simply agreed with a breakdown BobbyRoberts made about the destruction Supes caused. If you consider me calling out Sculli or others for the overload of Returns talk that started yesterday as "criticism" then I'm guilty of that, but not for MOS. edit- I did call Sculli nuts for thinking Lois and Clark is better than MOS, but thats it.
2. That scene has never been done on film, as a huge Superman fan it got to me for various reasons that go beyond just the movie. I also said I didn't expect it to have the effect it had on me, but it did. Guess that makes me not a huge Superman fan... I mean wtf
3. I even said I was going to be extra emotional cause I was sick and going with my dad. You seem to think you know me by my posts, you would have noticed that post before I even saw the movie. I have a chronic health condition, but sue me/ tell me I'm not a huge Superman fan for getting emotional from that scene cause you didn't.
I'm done with this, but had to get that off my chest.
Anton Sugar
Member
That's a pretty big assumption. I certainly didn't have any investment in Superman, and I think a case could be made that Superman hasn't been relevant to mainstream audiences for quite some time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think it's more that he wants someone who seems likable on the face of it. Jobs had a edge, even on his surface.
This Lex should seem like someone people would WANT to put in power. Think like a kinder, gentler Greg Stillson from The Dead Zone.
Just got chills reading that. The intensity Benedict. Imagine him ranting about the weakening of humanity by relying on Superman with his Khan face on. Make it so!
Yes precisely. You are attempting to discredit his experience with the movie simply because he is a Superman fan and you are not doing a convincing job of it at all.
thecouncil
Banned
So you're saying we can at least hope for a split second of CGI Rosenbaum face on another actor.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, they'll take a line from Smallville, cut out a word, and slip THAT into the middle of a line of dialog.
Can Crusher
Banned
You came off as aggressive when I compared Zod to other super villains in film, and provided no counter points. You said you had to keep your blood pressure or whatever in check reading through this thread (Before Sculli came in).
The way you've handled my criticisms of the movie has consistently been through aggressive posting, and you even put me on ignore because I was sarcastic in saying you weren't a superman fan. Something you still haven't noticed I see, which can only be because it bothers you to the point of not allowing you to see through the joke.
Even now, you are replying out of spite. It's just a bad look honestly, but in the end it only reinforces the way I judge your stance.
I'm not discrediting his experience at all, I'm discrediting his position on my opinion full stop.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Dashboard Confessional is due for a comeback, right?
Yeah, and lets get Evanescence going on the closing credits track.
Can Crusher
Banned
That's how I see Lex. He can command a room, he sounds educated, intelligent, but at the same time there's a menace about him even when he's not trying to be menacing. He's egotistical but not a mad man, he's cold and cruel but not an animal out of control.
I want to look at that first Lex - Superman confrontation, and feel like the human in the scene somehow through mere words allowed me to believe he was powerful enough, intelligent enough, threatening enough to really be an incredible opposing force to the super hero in question. Shit I want to almost root for the guy for how goddamn good he is at being what he is.
The whole eccentric, sort of mad kind of character with an obviously fake smile just isn't going to cut it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Seriously though - I really think, when the Blu-Ray comes out and the fan-editors descend upon the thing, that someone should try substituting the score with "The Earth Is Not a Cold Dead Place" by Explosions in the Sky.
I bet it'd work.
Cumberbatch as Lex is a bad choice. Way too on the nose. Also I don't think Cumberbatch can do an American accent, and I don't think anyone would want him to, either.
I bet it'd work.
Cumberbatch as Lex is a bad choice. Way too on the nose. Also I don't think Cumberbatch can do an American accent, and I don't think anyone would want him to, either.
Don't you try to sully "First Breath After Coma" or "Your Hand In Mine" by slumming them with MoS! DO NOT!
I cant think of a very emotional moment for me in MOS :/
Russel Crowe's goodbye speech in Krypton maybe. And this is all Snyder's fault-
I still cant believe they completely fucked up the "donning the suit" moment in this movie. Its such a non-event moment it actually managed to pull me right out of the experience and start thinking about all the technicall issues it has, again.
I pray they hire a new director, editor and composer for the second one.
The script, the casting and the sci-fi/alien invasion tone were all spot-on in theory. The execution though....was very, lets say 'flawed'.
And Zimmer needs to fucking GO.
Russel Crowe's goodbye speech in Krypton maybe. And this is all Snyder's fault-
I still cant believe they completely fucked up the "donning the suit" moment in this movie. Its such a non-event moment it actually managed to pull me right out of the experience and start thinking about all the technicall issues it has, again.
I pray they hire a new director, editor and composer for the second one.
The script, the casting and the sci-fi/alien invasion tone were all spot-on in theory. The execution though....was very, lets say 'flawed'.
And Zimmer needs to fucking GO.
Can Crusher
Banned
I disagree entirely with your first and second point, obviously. But most importantly, we shouldn't give a rat's ass about his accent since Lex being american or not means absolute dick shit. Hell make him an american who went abroad when he was young if that matters in the slightest.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Texas forever (clink)
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
If they make Lex anything but an American it will be a massive failure.
Cast a Brit only who can do a plasible American accent, please.
Oh, and make him a millionaire, sure (we've already seen Lexcorp stuff) but please don't skimp on the evil genius side of things.
Cast a Brit only who can do a plasible American accent, please.
Oh, and make him a millionaire, sure (we've already seen Lexcorp stuff) but please don't skimp on the evil genius side of things.
Messypandas
Member
Luthor should be played by Platinum games
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Oh, and the reason Lex should be American is not to tie with comics continuity, but because it fits with Superman being American. If he were not, it would be too much US-vs-the-world.
Can Crusher
Banned
Why would it be a massive failure?
Really? I think the whole american thing really needs to go away. Superman isn't american in my eyes, he's an alien who's more human than anyone in the world. He should speak to human values, not american values because that shit is just plain misguided.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Only if there's a scene where they play off Lex's resemblance to a famous actress.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
See above. Lex as a foreign power clashes too much with the all-American-ness of KansasMan.
It's too depression-era Xenophobic. And it misses a lot of opportunities to contrast them.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Someone should edit the "PROMETHEUS - Life" main theme into a fan trailer of MOS.
Seriously, its 100 times more of a Superman theme than Zimmer's 2-note gimmick used in his recent superhero movies
Or at least it would work as an excelent Krypton opening theme. It fucking nails the tone I expected on this new Superman movie.
Discotheque
Banned
Texas forever
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Lex is the embodiment of American Imperialism. Or he should be. The best versions of Lex are versions where the genius, the ambition, the charisma of the American Dream are completely embodied within him. They're just a little curdled on the surface. And then you realize they're completely spoiled once you get a look at what REALLY drives him.
That's what makes Superman vs. Lex so intriguing. Lex is the American dream, born and raised, that is going wrong in all the worst ways possible, for all the right reasons. Superman embodies the same traits, with conscience and compassion, but he's not from here.
edit: No way Zimmer goes. He's established at this point. At the least, his themes for Clark and for Krypton would remain, even if someone from his studio were to replace him. But I don't see him willingly walking from the job, and I don't see Snyder deciding not to use him.
Man of Steel Exclusive: Designing Krypton's Tech
IS a little spoilery for those who haven't seen it.
IS a little spoilery for those who haven't seen it.
Can Crusher
Banned
I don't agree at all. Sure he will have habits due to the way he was brought up, and sure enough he grew up in America.
But what Lex will present will be "Human vs non Human", and in this case it's an alien with godlike powers. It's not about America or Americans.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Someone should edit the "PROMETHEUS - Life" main theme into a fan trailer of MOS.
Seriously, its 100 times more of a Superman theme than Zimmer's 2-note gimmick used in his recent superhero movies
Or at least it would work as an excelent Krypton opening theme. It fucking nails the tone I expected on this new Superman movie.
You're right, it sounds a lot like something John Ottman would write for the darker parts of the sequel for Superman Returns.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
On the surface sure, but you are missing the subtext that way.
Plus, British-accented villains are cliche. Cumberbatch got away with it because he's cool.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Bryan Cranston for Lex.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
Messypandas
Member
Liquidsnake
Banned
Everyone like my MOS t shirt I wore to work today.
Can Crusher
Banned
I'm not missing the subtext at all. The fact that writers previously decided to write these characters with a specific market in mind is one thing, but the potential and the nature of these characters present something far greater.
Superman is the ultimate story of an immigrant, but he's an immigrant in this world. America was the alley where he grew up. For example in Returns Lois writes about "Why the world doesn't need Superman". The world, not america. His values are human values, they aren't american values. His reach is worldwide, he's not Spiderman who is basically just making a difference in New York.
Lex represents human flaws, nothing he is is exclusive to him being american. He also doesn't characterize the american dream at all considering he was born rich and the American dream is about social mobility. Rather he contrasts by being a human with power who corrupts his own humanity, the opposite of Superman who isn't even a human, and his power made him the most humane of all of us on Earth. That's why he is a worldwide symbol, why his message is far reaching.
It's not about Americans. That's just sugar coating, because he's written by Americans.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
A lot of people seem to be pushing this. It's the choice that Rosenbaum was referencing when he made his tweet, which I'm sure he knows is a gag - nobody actually gets roles in Hollywood because they crowdsourced a digital rallying cry. Otherwise we'd be watching Donald Glover in The Amazing Spider-Man.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I really really hope they go for the route of journalist Clark Kent uncovering something nefarious about industrialist turned politician Lex Luthor. Perhaps it could start with Clark covering issues related to militias somewhere around the horn of Africa. During his reporting he gets captured and is brought to the site of a Luthor funded project shrouded in secrecy. After a brief tussle he heads towards the heart of the camp and finds thousands of workers extracting some Kryptonian related machinery. It's easy to develop the script from there.
I think such an angle would fit really well with the realistic and somber universe they've established with MoS.
I think such an angle would fit really well with the realistic and somber universe they've established with MoS.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Can, you misunderstand my point completely.
I'm saying you can't have a foreign Lex and not have an America-vs-Other subtext creep into the narrative. Unless that's what you want, and I don't.
FWIW, Luthor may have been European when introcuded. This isn't about history, it's about what the character choice would mean today. Superman may represent the world, but he *is* American, and this movie only reinforces that notion. If Lex isn't American, it becomes a defacto statement, like it or not.
I'm saying you can't have a foreign Lex and not have an America-vs-Other subtext creep into the narrative. Unless that's what you want, and I don't.
FWIW, Luthor may have been European when introcuded. This isn't about history, it's about what the character choice would mean today. Superman may represent the world, but he *is* American, and this movie only reinforces that notion. If Lex isn't American, it becomes a defacto statement, like it or not.
I've got to imagine that MoS2 is going to be a big step up. They got their feet wet, they know what worked well and what didn't.
I just hope DC/WB take their time and not rush things in an effort to put out JL as soon as possible. They're behind Marvel but people will not mind waiting a little bit longer for a better product.
I just hope DC/WB take their time and not rush things in an effort to put out JL as soon as possible. They're behind Marvel but people will not mind waiting a little bit longer for a better product.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Hmm...so Rosenbaum mentions Jon Hamm in his list of preferences for Lex. That could actually be....brilliant! Hamm is like one of the best loveable villains on television right now.