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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
I'm hoping the movie is good on its own merits and doesn't just serve as pandering material to the fanboys.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Critics will hate it, enthusiasts will love it. Of course it'll fair much better in the box office.
If only we could get a JC sequel.
*sigh*
Liquidsnake
Banned
the internet can get tiresome sometimes with all the hating on everything.
Seems to me like "pandering to fanboys" caused Avengers to be made and be successful. This is the start of WB's Justice League project, there will be fan pandering. What this movie isn't pandering to though is the Donner crowd.
I just think he's kinda hot...
Avengers was a well-made film in general despite a few plotholes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I didn't answer because it read like a rhetorical question you asked on the way towards dismissing her opinion. I didn't answer because you weren't looking for one, because if you were actually concerned with the answer, you wouldn't have immediately laid out your case for why she's full of shit and stupid until you'd
a) watched the movie
b) read her article.
So no, I didn't take your "question" on good faith. You pulled this Donner thing out of your ass as a means to reject an article you haven't read yet to defend a movie you haven't seen yet. Nobody BUT YOU mentioned that she might have arrived at her opinion because of some weird adherence to Donner's interpretation.
All that said, she's a former comic book editor, and is very familiar with superheroes, and Superman in particular, throughout his multiple interpretations between 1978 and right now.
not that it matters because you're being fucking ridiculous.
Some would disagree on that front. I personally really enjoyed the Avengers as a fun blockbuster movie but that movie was full on fan pandering. And as a fan I am 100% OK with that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Trying to be entertaining isn't "pandering." Especially if the point of your movie is to be fun.
Pandering is a negative. There's no reason to describe a movie that is successful in being a fun action/adventure as "pandering."
It's only pandering when it not only fails at achieving those goals, it fails while putting forth nakedly cynical, half-hearted attempts to achieve them.
It's hard to argue anyone involved with The Avengers was being cynical and half-hearted when it came time to perform.
Pandering is a negative. There's no reason to describe a movie that is successful in being a fun action/adventure as "pandering."
It's only pandering when it not only fails at achieving those goals, it fails while putting forth nakedly cynical, half-hearted attempts to achieve them.
It's hard to argue anyone involved with The Avengers was being cynical and half-hearted when it came time to perform.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Don't mean to be that guy, but that's not what pandering means.
The Avengers was definitely pandering to easily excited comic fans.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
What do you mean by that? Source material being his red undies or Donners movies?
Mustainium
Banned
Oh god.
MOS can't be that bad, can it?
I was pumped for this movie, as the last few trailers have been glorious, but that fact that this is scoring lower than I thought it would is a bit concerning. Though, Watchmen is at a 64%, and I enjoyed that.
In what way, exactly? Avengers satisfied easily excited comic book fans because it gave them exactly what they were hoping for in a comic book team up movie.
It's like saying restaurants are pandering to customers by giving them the food they ordered.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
It did so in terribly low brow manner. But I suppose that's exactly what Marvel's comic writers have been doing for the past few years anyway. A lot of inter-character circle jerking, unnecessary dialogue, and ill-timed humor.
The best analogy I can come up with is that The Avengers was the Brian Michael Bendis title of superhero films.
kunonabi
Member
There is quite a bit changed not related to any of that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's - to me, that's being needlessly cynical. What else is that movie supposed to be doing with it's characters if not having them get in action scenes and adventures with each other? I'm not saying it's a great movie, either - I personally found Captain America to be a better film than Avengers - but to use the term "lowbrow" seems weird, to me. It's not as if it was chock-full of dick and fart jokes. That's lowbrow. It was pretty straightforward about what it was trying to do.
It also assumes "comic fans" are the primary audience. or even the secondary audience. They're not. Fans of the CHARACTERS, maybe. But fans of comics? Not a fuckin chance. The number of people who paid to see "The Avengers" who are active comic readers is less than 1%, more than likely.
*shrug* Your opinion I guess, but I don't recall many cases of your complaints. The story was, as a whole, narratively competent with everyone having believable reasons for doing what they were doing. It wasn't a complex story by any means, but that's not necessarily a bad thing when it's done well. You obviously disagree, but I think even you'll agree that it justified its action better than many other action films.
We're no longer friends.
Reading some of the reviews and it seems like some of the moronic critics can't get past the Donner films and cannot understand that Man of Steel is a completely different thing. It's like they can't grasp the fact that this is a different version of Superman. Listen, I respect the Donner films. I enjoy them. But they are cheesy as all fuck and they are not the be all representation of Supes. In fact, I cringe every now and then when I watch it. I love Reeve as Supes but I cannot for the life of me watch the original Donner flick all the way through.
Some of the critics sound like they are using Man of Steel as a scapegoat or whipping boy. Very annoying.
Some of the critics sound like they are using Man of Steel as a scapegoat or whipping boy. Very annoying.
Just ask yourself this... would Avengers be nearly as good if you had replaced the main heroes with other Marvel characters?
If I had replaced Batman with some other random vigilante hero... Batman Begins would still be a great movie. The first act would remain virtually untouched in its greatness in fact. Hell you could probably say the same about TDK as well, it was less a super hero movie and more a crime epic.
If I had replaced Batman with some other random vigilante hero... Batman Begins would still be a great movie. The first act would remain virtually untouched in its greatness in fact. Hell you could probably say the same about TDK as well, it was less a super hero movie and more a crime epic.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Tons have stuff has been changed over the years in the comics and continues to be changed.
After Returns though, I'm all for tons of changes as long as they respect the character.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I do feel that comic fans were the primary audience used to build up incredible hype that surrounded the film. The general movie going audience was not familiar with Whedon, and clearly didn't give much of a shit about Marvel's film properties apart from Iron Man. The movie pandered to comic fans by promising and delivering the same bullshit dialogue and plots they've gotten used to with Bendis and Millar on the big screen.
It was a hollow affair and trumped up to incredible heights because it was exactly what today's Marvel comics read like. The rest of the audience enjoyed it because it was filled to the brim with gorgeous mindless action.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm a weirdo sometimes, I know
Sure. Why wouldn't it. The dynamics of the characters are pretty well introduced EVEN WITHOUT having seen the previous Marvel movies. If Avengers had been about generic superheroes made up specifically for the film, it still would have worked as a movie.
Dunno how that proves The Avengers was pandering, either.
No way are comics fans the primary audience for ANYTHING successful. They just aren't. There's simply not enough of them. Nor do they really carry enough weight as a purchasing block. If they did, DC/Marvel publishing wouldn't be circling the drain they're circling, financially.
The idea that general audiences didn't give a shit about the Marvel films is ridiculous, as each of them made well over 100 mil at the box office, domestically. Were they huge blockbusters? No, not all of them. But they didn't get to 100 mil based off devout comic readership spreading the word. Those movies worked because they were aimed at people who DON'T read comic books. Much in the same way the Star Trek reboot worked because it appealed to people who DON'T care about Star Trek.
The purchasing power of comics fans is being GREATLY overestimated by you.
NeoGAF hates Marvel movies if you haven't noticed it. Which is why i find this melt down of Man of Steel so damn funny.
BertramCooper
Banned
It will do fine, but I can't imagine it will be the Nolan Batman replacement that WB no doubt would like it to be.
But hey, if it does, congrats to everyone involved.
Expendable.
Member
It would still be a Batman film, just under a different name and I'd recognize it as such. He would be batman, just without the traditional cape and cowl.
If they put in different heroes in avengers with the same functionality....well, yeah, it'd be the same film, since they're doing everything the same, except it'd star Toby Snark, the Steel Man.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
haha
FatboyRoberts, I like John Carter more than Captain America and The Avengers... who's the weirdo? lol
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
There is. Its not much but there are a few scenes. Mostly though it tries to pull at your heartstrings with each frame.
Future Foundation
Member
Dude, GAF loves Marvel movies. The MCU thread is evidence enough of that, they're all hyped as hell for Winter Soldier & Dark World.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People are strange, when you're a stranger, faces look ugly, when you're alone...
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
I'm gonna blot out the sun with my tears.
"People are strange, when you're a stranger, faces look ugly, when you're alone... "
haha great song
Were you around here before the Avengers released or when Cap and Thor started filming? Nothing but hate. Hell, compare this thread and other threads related to Man of Steel to the MCU thread/Marvel threads see what has more posts. There's still a few members of GAF that will shit on Marvel movies every chance they get. And I'm always there SMH.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Bob Harras is a comics editor. I asked a question and you twisted yourself into a mental pretzel thinking that I was playing games. could have avoided all this if you just told us where she was approaching her review.
like I said, based on more than one review that I've seen people (critics) want to measure MoS only against Donner films, I think that's the wrong approach. also who says there is only one approach to a comic character, especially one as old as Superman?
Strange days have found us
Strange days have tracked us down
They're going to destroy
Our casual joys
We shall go on playing
Or find a new town
Really? I never took your site serious before, and this solidifies it.
Expendable.
Member
John Carter is more ambitious and I'd much rather watch it again, but I'd say the middling fun factor is about the same.
Wow, I'm glad my opinion on two movies can have such an overwhelming effect on you.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Oh I certainly agree that they weren't targeted for revenue generation. But were they used as a vehicle to market the movie? Undoubtedly. Nothing creates hype like enthusiast hype. It's why comic films are even made these days - they're easy to market because fans do half of the job.
A similar situation is taking place in the gaming industry right now. Sony realizes that the number of people who actually give a damn about drm is completely insignificant compared to their regular business of shifting consoles. But appeasing the enthusiasts leads to its own rewards which then trickles down to the general gaming audience.
Never underestimate the marketing power of the enthusiast.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I thought Captain America was very good actually. bit more..... erhm, what's the word? .... I don't have a word, I just thought it was good. I enjoyed it more than Avengers. only way I could get my girlfriend to see it was by telling ehr that it was set in teh 40s and that there is one lady that dresses well, that's all the hook she needed, she loves 40s fashion.
TheOneWhoKnocks
Member
Weather the movie is good or bad, critics are always going to compare it with previous versions...see Batman ? May be the movie really is mediocre other than visual effects, otherwise there really isn't an explanation for so many negative reviews. Guess i will find out tomorrow!
Liquidsnake
Banned
Too much negativity here. Between this and TDKR you guys really break my heart. I mean really break my heart.
TheOneWhoKnocks
Member
It's 1st act was as good as BB's. Rest of the movie was sloppy.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
31 hours until I get to see it.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
ex where is your review I wants to read it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Seeing it Friday morning with my family. My two older nephews (19 & 22) want to see it too. My son graduates from pre-school at 5 PM on Friday so first showing at like 10 is when I will see it.
EDIT: Lay off Expendable. He's a good guy... sometimes I do question his taste. Great Gatsby?!?!?! Come on Jordan.
EDIT: Lay off Expendable. He's a good guy... sometimes I do question his taste. Great Gatsby?!?!?! Come on Jordan.
holy shit tell Newman to take the stick out of his ass. Trying way too hard.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
evil solrac v3.0
Member
I didn't say he wasn't, i'm just engaging in vigorous debate with him and fatboyRoberts, next up we'll do 19th century fistcuffs. i'll have to groom my mustache, BRB....