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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.

ReiGun

Member
I'm still looking forward to it. Just have my expectations in check.

Not that they ever got too wild. I have remained true to my belief that the movie could suck and I could walk away hating it.

The reviews have been less the kind, but that's the way it is sometimes. It's how the audience (like myself and you all in this thread responds). I do hope they can take the feedback about this film and make necessary improvements for the next one.
 
I am genuinely still very excited, I just have tempered expectations. Even the bad reviews have sort of confirmed what I wanted in a Superman for the current generation.

I want a Superman movie to be good, I want a BB treatment for the character. I want Superman movies to grow out of the Donner shell (no digs at the movies, there were great for the time).

I am totally with you on the Batman/Superman movie. I think those two characters alone are bigger than the entire Avengers (and I love the Avengers too). I would crap my pants at a live action version of World's Finest.

Stuff that still have me hyped for the movie (based on general impressions):

*Henry Cavill is a great Superman/Clark both in look and character.
*Cast generally delivers
*Action, action, action... and then some more action.
*Solid soundtrack (I have heard parts of it, Hans Zimmer didn't phone it like he did it with TDKR.. he actually tried)
*Movie looks good visually in both the slow scenes and when the action goes down
*Serious take on the character and the mythology of the universe. I don't want a Nolan Batman but I definitely do not want more Donner/Superman Return.
*Menacing villain... I want someone to actually test Superman on the big screen.

Have my tickets booked in advance for Friday at 7 PM.

Right now the biggest "deal breaker" from the reviews has been the uneven pacing and not living up to the potential of its premise. These statements were used for TDKR and they were extremely apt even though I overall enjoyed the movie.


oohhh, you will be, you will be (YODA's eyes widen)
 

walei

Member
that's not spoilers dude. what do you mean by it takes itself too serious, what would you have prefered?




THIS BUS STOPS FOR NOTHING!

Okay I removed my spoiler tags in my previous post.

There was nothing new in terms of the subject matter not just for the Superman lore but every other superhero movie out there. Besides Kal-El's typical struggle to find his own place in the World because of his powers, every other characters were very one dimensional including Lois Lane the typical gun-ho journalist and Zod the typical alien that wants to take over earth. I know this is an origin story but I just felt there really wasn't anything new that I haven't seen... e.g. The Amazing Spiderman had neat scenes like Spidy using the web in the sewer to detect movements.

On top of that, elements outside of a superhero movie such as the way dumb military fought with extraterrestrial threats all the way to puny humans escaping falling buildings, were done a gazillion times in other movies with the same plot devices. The tone of the movie was gritty and all the way through but the plot devices they chose were a summation of all past cliches with zero hints of self-awareness that they are doing that. I found myself constantly thinking they can't honestly feel this is what people find exciting for a superhero movie in 2013.

As I said though, the DBZ style fighting scenes were pretty good. The soundtrack was REALLY catchy and the visuals were great.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Okay I removed my spoiler tags in my previous post.

There was nothing new in terms of the subject matter not just for the Superman lore but every other superhero movie out there. Besides Kal-El's typical struggle to find his own place in the World because of his powers, every other characters were very one dimensional including Lois Lane the typical gun-ho journalist and Zod the typical alien that wants to take over earth. I know this is an origin story but I just felt there really wasn't anything new that I haven't seen... e.g. The Amazing Spiderman had neat scenes like Spidy using the web in the sewer to detect movements.

On top of that, elements outside of a superhero movie such as the way dumb military fought with extraterrestrial threats all the way to puny humans escaping falling buildings, were done a gazillion times in other movies with the same plot devices. The tone of the movie was gritty and all the way through but the plot devices they chose were a summation of all past cliches with zero hints of self-awareness that they are doing that. I found myself constantly thinking they can't honestly feel this is what people find exciting for a superhero movie in 2013.

As I said though, the DBZ style fighting scenes were pretty good. The soundtrack was REALLY catchy and the visuals were great.

So it sounds like a bunch of cliches played very seriously.
 
Just talked about this for about an hour on the Golden Briefcase podcast, should be up tomorrow, and we ended up circling around to the "Batman Begins" comparison a lot of people seem to be making:

The conception of what Superman can be, cinematically, is very, very tied to the Donner films. To the point when, if you say Superman, people will probably instinctively hear Williams' theme in their heads. That was 1978. We haven't gotten a version of Superman SINCE that has really veered away from that initial interpretation, so there's been basically three and a half decades worth of that conception settling and solidifying and encasing itself in nostalgic amber. Sure, there's been comics & cartoons that have come since, but a lot of them end up sampling/homaging the Donner films in their own ways, so that interpretation stays relevant, even as people try to move out from its long shadow.

When Batman Begins first hit - it was liked. But not loved. People admired it, but weren't blown away by it. I really do believe that's partially due to the fact that, for a LOT of people, their idea of what Batman could be in a movie was solidified by what Keaton/Burton did in 1989. That was Batman to a large extent. Luckily for Warners, the gap between Batman and Batman Begins was nowhere near as long, and the character wasn't AS fiercely connected to that 1989 movie. So while it wasn't a huge victory at the time, people, via DVD in the intervening years, came to appreciate the movie for what it was, and Batman was allowed to move out from under Keaton/Burton's shadow. Only later did a lot of people see the seeds that were planted for what the character COULD BE in a movie, and that was realized for a lot of audiences in The Dark Knight.

Man of Steel has a longer shadow, and a more rigid history that it has to try to break from with this film. Batman had an easier time of it. Man of Steel is a different interpretation, it seems, and that WILL take some adjusting to for some people. It's possible we're watching that happen right now, as people are literally jarred loose from their conception of what "Superman" can be in a movie, in the same way "Batman" did.

Or it's entirely possible this is just another dramatically thin Zack Snyder movie that doesn't sit well on first viewing, and doesn't get any better on rewatch, like 300 or Watchmen.

But I do think that if there are comparisons to be made with Batman Begins, they might fall along the lines we brought up on the show.
 
Man of Steel has a longer shadow, and a more rigid history that it has to try to break from with this film. Batman had an easier time of it. Man of Steel is a different interpretation, it seems, and that WILL take some adjusting to for some people. It's possible we're watching that happen right now, as people are literally jarred loose from their conception of what "Superman" can be in a movie, in the same way "Batman" did.

Or it's entirely possible this is just another dramatically thin Zack Snyder movie that doesn't sit well on first viewing, and doesn't get any better on rewatch, like 300 or Watchmen.

But I do think that if there are comparisons to be made with Batman Begins, they might fall along the lines we brought up on the show.

Definitely could see either (or both) of those reasons helping contribute to the lukewarm reception. Hopefully it's the former.

When are you watching the film?
 
Okay I removed my spoiler tags in my previous post.

There was nothing new in terms of the subject matter not just for the Superman lore but every other superhero movie out there. Besides Kal-El's typical struggle to find his own place in the World because of his powers, every other characters were very one dimensional including Lois Lane the typical gun-ho journalist and Zod the typical alien that wants to take over earth. I know this is an origin story but I just felt there really wasn't anything new that I haven't seen... e.g. The Amazing Spiderman had neat scenes like Spidy using the web in the sewer to detect movements.

On top of that, elements outside of a superhero movie such as the way dumb military fought with extraterrestrial threats all the way to puny humans escaping falling buildings, were done a gazillion times in other movies with the same plot devices. The tone of the movie was gritty and all the way through but the plot devices they chose were a summation of all past cliches with zero hints of self-awareness that they are doing that. I found myself constantly thinking they can't honestly feel this is what people find exciting for a superhero movie in 2013.

As I said though, the DBZ style fighting scenes were pretty good. The soundtrack was REALLY catchy and the visuals were great.

hmmm, I can understand the been there done that, but I always think it's in the delivery and the spectacle of it. if it manages to entertain and be well acted and yes be serious about it I think it will deliver with audiences. thanks for the review.

So it sounds like a bunch of cliches played very seriously.


nothing wrong with that, the comedy requisite can be quite tiring sometimes too.
 

wetwired

Member
Just talked about this for about an hour on the Golden Briefcase podcast, should be up tomorrow, and we ended up circling around to the "Batman Begins" comparison a lot of people seem to be making:

The conception of what Superman can be, cinematically, is very, very tied to the Donner films. To the point when, if you say Superman, people will probably instinctively hear Williams' theme in their heads. That was 1978. We haven't gotten a version of Superman SINCE that has really veered away from that initial interpretation, so there's been basically three and a half decades worth of that conception settling and solidifying and encasing itself in nostalgic amber. Sure, there's been comics & cartoons that have come since, but a lot of them end up sampling/homaging the Donner films in their own ways, so that interpretation stays relevant, even as people try to move out from its long shadow.

When Batman Begins first hit - it was liked. But not loved. People admired it, but weren't blown away by it. I really do believe that's partially due to the fact that, for a LOT of people, their idea of what Batman could be in a movie was solidified by what Keaton/Burton did in 1989. That was Batman to a large extent. Luckily for Warners, the gap between Batman and Batman Begins was nowhere near as long, and the character wasn't AS fiercely connected to that 1989 movie. So while it wasn't a huge victory at the time, people, via DVD in the intervening years, came to appreciate the movie for what it was, and Batman was allowed to move out from under Keaton/Burton's shadow. Only later did a lot of people see the seeds that were planted for what the character COULD BE in a movie, and that was realized for a lot of audiences in The Dark Knight.

Man of Steel has a longer shadow, and a more rigid history that it has to try to break from with this film. Batman had an easier time of it. Man of Steel is a different interpretation, it seems, and that WILL take some adjusting to for some people. It's possible we're watching that happen right now, as people are literally jarred loose from their conception of what "Superman" can be in a movie, in the same way "Batman" did.

Or it's entirely possible this is just another dramatically thin Zack Snyder movie that doesn't sit well on first viewing, and doesn't get any better on rewatch, like 300 or Watchmen.

But I do think that if there are comparisons to be made with Batman Begins, they might fall along the lines we brought up on the show.

Riffing off what you're saying I think Batman Begins also had an easier time because after the monstrosity that was Batman and Robin, people were prepared for and willing to accept a different interpretation of Batman.

Whereas regardless of how much people whine about Superman Returns, it wasn't THAT bad that people felt the need for a clean slate to wash the taste from their mouths. The general public weren't as offended by it that GAF would have us believe.
 

Sanjuro

Member
All this nonsense about Rotten Tomatoes makes me want to watch the superior original film again for some reason.

Wish the Superman Lives documentary was good to go.
 

fuenf

Member
Riffing off what you're saying I think Batman Begins also had an easier time because after the monstrosity that was Batman and Robin, people were prepared for and willing to accept a different interpretation of Batman.

Whereas regardless of how much people whine about Superman Returns, it wasn't THAT bad that people felt the need for a clean slate to wash the taste from their mouths. The general public weren't as offended by it that GAF would have us believe.

What's interesting is, that although BB has a 85% fresh rating, the rotten reviews sound very similar to the ones MoS is getting: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_begins/reviews/?sort=rotten

It really does seem like people were more receptive to BB's approach, but those who didnt like it sound exactly like the guys who didnt like MoS .
 

Ninjimbo

Member
I forgot about my initial reactions to Batman Begins. If there's a movie that outright disappointed me, it has to be that one. There is something to the point that maybe Tim Burton sullied my view of what Batman could be. Growing up, I idolized those movies. I became accustomed to the over-the-top depiction of the Batman universe with the rocket penguins and giant rubber ducks.

When I finally saw Batman Begins with its strong emphasis on Bruce and crime drama storytelling, it was so jarring that I became bored. I was fidgeting in the theater. My mind was wandering. I just plain didn't care about what was happening. I think I actually wanted to walk out which is something I never do. Although I didn't call BB a bad movie, I did voice my thoughts and the people I was with more or less agreed at the time.

It's funny thinking back on it now. I don't remember when it was that I changed my mind, but it did happen. Eventually I came to realize that it was the best origin story by far with nothing else coming remotely close; repeated viewings cemented that. Once I got over the fact that the movie was trying to be serious, it clicked with me. It's a different interpretation of Batman and that was okay. It didn't need Michelle Pfiefer cartwheeling in a catsuit. The movie was great the way it was.

If MoS is half as good as BB, I'll be happy.
 

Totakeke

Member
I never got the infatuation that comic book based movies should be comedic and lighthearted, probably because I never got into the comic book reading culture, is that it?
 
they don't have to be, but honestly all summer blockbusters benefit from being a bit light hearted at times. imo.

it's not a comic book issue, it's a blockbuster issue. and that's not really the key issue with this film anyways. it's fine if they just go straight action drama. but apparently the script isn't up to snuff to complement the drama
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
yes.

there are those of us who want these movies to not be corny. the more serious, the better.

Yeah, I enjoy serious films, even if they have crazy wack science fiction going on or what not. My Dad is the opposite, he can't take any comic book hero film seriously because he just spends the whole film laughing: "HAHAHHAHA that guy in red is fucking flying, are you serious? Look how serious the people around him look, holy shit this is gold." -_-
 

fuenf

Member
OMG one more bad review.. this isn't happening is it?

Blockbuster / Superhero fatigue and the expectation of a Donner film... just look at the latest review:

First of all, it’s another damn origin story. Superman’s origin is not only the most well-known piece of superhero lore, it’s also an established piece of American mythology, and as such does not need to be rehashed every time the character has a new onscreen adventure. Or, at least, it doesn’t need to be rehashed at this length, in which it takes 20 minutes just for baby Kal-El to be sent forth into space from his dying home planet of Krypton. But since Man of Steel is a modern superhero blockbuster, this is all standard operating procedure: The movie runs nearly two and a half hours and has to turn every little bit of storytelling into an operatic, explosive set piece.

(...), but Superman is meant to be an upbeat embodiment of the American spirit, an outsider who comes to Earth and embraces everything good about humanity.
 

satori

Member
Ok so nephew is 5, loves super hero movies. And I am contemplating taking him with me or not on Friday. I am visiting my sister and have not seen my nephew in months. I asked him what he would like to do. He begs for super man. For those that seen it, verdict? His mom took him to iron man 3 if that help.
 

cajunator

Banned
All this nonsense about Rotten Tomatoes makes me want to watch the superior original film again for some reason.

Wish the Superman Lives documentary was good to go.

I literally just did this. The original 1978 film. for the first time ever in fact. It was quite good. amazingly good considering how long ago it was made.
I have a ticket booked for 11:50 PM tonight for MOS so Im really excited for it!
 

Rootbeer

Banned
If someone told me This Is The End would be topping Man of Steel on the tomatometer by 20 points I wouldn't have believed it... I was such a fool! Still got my IMAX 3D tickets and can't wait to see it. Hope I love it and those likening it to Batman Begins in various ways are on the right track.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
Saw the original in anticipation. So cheesy, but so good. Now, Jor-el mentions he would have passed away for thousands of years by the time Supes watches his youtube uploads, but Luthor mentions Krypton was destroyed in 1948 and it took 3 years to get to earth. Whoops.
 

Saya

Member
Just came back from watching it. It is ok. A little bit too long. The action was ok. Foara's action scenes were the highlight of the movie for me. I came out of the theater a little bit disappointed to be honest. Cavill was very underwhelming.
 
Ok so nephew is 5, loves super hero movies. And I am contemplating taking him with me or not on Friday. I am visiting my sister and have not seen my nephew in months. I asked him what he would like to do. He begs for super man. For those that seen it, verdict? His mom took him to iron man 3 if that help.

that's what the kid wants. take him to see Superman.
 

jsnepo

Member
Saw it last night (Philippine independence day). I love what they did with the origin story. I kind of agree with the poster that mentioned the execution wasn't well done. Nolan and Goyer did a good job though. The action is very fast which is kind of surprising since the director is Snyder.

Another disappointment is regarding the theme by Hans Zimmer. I don't remember hearing it during the movie. Maybe the slow piano part but the rest is, I don't really remember. Too bad because the theme Zimmer did is great in the trailer.
 

Saya

Member
One thing that bothered me was the not so subtle
Jesus imagery throughout the movie, I especially mean the parts when Superman went to the church with Jesus behind him and after Superman left the spaceship to save Lois. Yes yes he is ou
It was way too obvious. I hoped Snyder would refrain from it but I guess he couldn't help it.
 

jey_16

Banned
Time Review said:
The action is plentiful and thumping; Marvel-size thrills await you and the generations of kids who still believe in Superman. I just mean that the movie finds its true, lofty footing not when it displays Kal-El’s extraordinary powers but when it dramatizes Clark Kent’s roiling humanity. The super part of Man of Steel is just O.K.; but the man part is super.

Hype +1.....I already know the action scenes are going to be good, as long as the rest is good then that's all that matters
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Solo has his box of tissues ready and they're not meant for crying :p

"First of all, it’s another damn origin story. Superman’s origin is not only the most well-known piece of superhero lore, it’s also an established piece of American mythology, and as such does not need to be rehashed every time the character has a new onscreen adventure. "

This is just most the absurd shit. He's had one origin film on screen in 78 (told only one way) and there is a whole generation of kids and yes even older people who don't know his origin story at all or at least not very well.
 

X05

Upside, inside out he's livin la vida loca, He'll push and pull you down, livin la vida loca
Watched it yesterday night.

I enjoyed it, but it has a couple of issues so the movie overall is just ok. It does have all the action that Returns lacked and more though.
 

Solo

Member
Back up to 61%.

Almost at Spidey 3 levels!

untitleddqyt2.jpg
 

effzee

Member
I really don't get the hate for origins stories, especially for new franchises or reboots like Batman Begins and now MoS.

First of all they are needed simply to wash away whatever didn't work in the previous set of films. Hell Batman was assumed dead on film until Begins.

Secondly origins stories are the only real time the main hero can have the majority of screen time to develop their character and explain it to the audience. Going back to Nolan's Batman movies, if it wasn't for how well Bruce/Batman is set up in Begins, TDK would be terrible because largely TDK is about the Joker, Harvey Dent, and even Gordon. Bruce/Batman takes a back seat but it works because Bruce was defined already.

I love origins movies if they are done well. The first time you see the hero put on his persona or costume is still always cool. Hell I even loved the opening scenes of Transformers when we first see Optimus rolling down the street. Maybe cause I was at a midnight show opening weekend, but the crowd roared.

If MoS nails the origins, especially after almost 30 years of the same origins, then it sets up future movies perfectly. Personally I find myself dismissing reviews that say it takes itself too serious, or that it is dark, or complains about the fact that the movie exists when apparently we have plenty of good Superman movies already in the vault completely ignoring Returns and the huge gap between the original and this reboot. Its lazy.

And then to complain further while comparing the two movies is even stupider when at the least you should know going in that this is a complete reboot with a new cast, director, theme, and it aims to distance itself from the original movies.
 
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