Support NeoGAF

[evil solrac v3.0]

non-linear narratives are so overrated. linear narratives exist for a reason—characters experience events in chronological order (almost all the time; exceptions exist of course), and since characters drive plot, there better be a damn good reason if we don't experience it in chronological order also.

flashbacks are even worse than non-linear narratives in that they almost always don't work, especially when it's the same character. parallel narratives are fine, but that's because they work in chronological order. I'll make an exception for memories, since they're built into the narrative logic of the film, but memory is a concept so closely linked to the unreliable narrator—something which translates incredibly poorly to film. so I don't think I'm being too harsh in my sweeping generalization that flashbacks are almost always used lazily and poorly.



meh. this is a film with some big problems, and while I can overlook those problems, I can see why others can't. It's certainly been divisive.

something like all three star wars prequels having fresh ratings on RT is a far more egregious offense imo

problems are there but BIG? nah, I personally always tend to look at the whole package and not harp on the problems and imperfections. it was very fun, enjoyable and as my girlfriend said, made Superman very human and relatable. (even though I always thought he was very human) the critics(those that were sour on the movie) just wanted to blab endlessly how it's not their Superman or it's not Donner happy go lucky Superman or how Superman never does this or that. it's bullshit reasons that had nothing to do with the movie at hand.

 

[jackdoe]

I've never heard this story before, what was the sequence gonna be like? Was it gonna be Supes returning from space or something?

It's actually on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF44PEypDQs

 

[Messypandas]

I've never heard this story before, what was the sequence gonna be like? Was it gonna be Supes returning from space or something?

youtube brah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF44PEypDQs

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

where is Krypt0nian? he's not banned so why hasn't he chimed in?

 

[strafer]

where is Krypt0nian? he's not banned so why hasn't he chimed in?

Still on the bus.

 

[Sinatar]

As a non fan of Superman I thought the movie was quite good. Maybe you have to be a fan of the character to hate it? *shrug*

 

[3N16MA]

Yeah if the movie had gone through Clark's life in linear fashion, there would have been proper build up. With the flashbacks, the movie kept getting in its own way.

The flashbacks were great and then we return present day to find drifter Clark who we learn very little about. Seems to me the film relies too heavily on the flashbacks to build Clark and doesn't bother to continue to build on the character as an adult. Seemed rushed just so he can put on the suit and get the action going.

 

[Sinatar]

The flashbacks were great and then we return present day to find drifter Clark who we learn very little about. Seems to me the film relies too heavily on the flashbacks to build Clark and doesn't bother to continue to build on the character as an adult. Seemed rushed just so he can put on the suit and get the action going.

Rushed? Everyone knows the origin of Superman. My *mother* who hasn't read a comic book in her life knows the origin of superman. Why waste time rehashing what everyone already knows? Hell wasn't that one of the main complaints people had about The Amazing Spider-Man was that it spent too long on the origin everyone already knew?

 

[Blader]

that critics sometimes are too much up their own asses.

The only people who are up their own asses are the ones who go on saying this.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

As a non fan of Superman I thought the movie was quite good. Maybe you have to be a fan of the character to hate it? *shrug*

The flashbacks were great and then we return present day to find drifter Clark who we learn very little about. Seems to me the film relies too heavily on the flashbacks to build Clark and doesn't bother to continue to build on the character as an adult. Seemed rushed just so he can put on the suit and get the action going.

there's no need, everyone knows the story. they wanted to establish Clark as a drifter and detached from Humanity at large while still trying to help and find his way in the world. these are the years that hardly anyone but comic readers know about.

 

[Moral Panic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lsNLZ5vCpM

hnnnggggg the whole sequence was so badass.

faora mai waifu.

Yes, this is dumb writing scene I was referring to. What the hell is she talking about, of course she has a sense of morality. Does the writer not know what morality is?

 

[ReiGun]

As a non fan of Superman I thought the movie was quite good. Maybe you have to be a fan of the character to hate it? *shrug*

Speaking as a fan of Superman, I think that they got Superman right. Cavill was a great choice - dude just oozes charm and charisma - and the Superman action was awesome. My problems, and the problems a lot of others had to do with other things.

I reckon there are some Superman purist who hate it for this reason or that one, but I don't think that's the only reason to dislike it.

The flashbacks were great and then we return present day to find drifter Clark who we learn very little about. Seems to me the film relies too heavily on the flashbacks to build Clark and doesn't bother to continue to build on the character as an adult. Seemed rushed just so he can put on the suit and get the action going.

That's what I'm saying. Drifter/loner Clark was the final result of all those experiences in the flashbacks (which I agree were great scenes). I think a linear storytelling fashion with some of the scenes being fleshed out would have helped. Maybe spent more time having Clark actually interact with the people he meets while he wanders.

Rushed? Everyone knows the origin of Superman. My *mother* who hasn't read a comic book in her life knows the origin of superman. Why waste time rehashing what everyone already knows? Hell wasn't that one of the main complaints people had about The Amazing Spider-Man was that it spent too long on the origin everyone already knew?

Even if everyone knows the basic details of Superman's origin, you still have to establish Clark's personality. That's the problem here: the characterization was weak.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

The only people who are up their own asses are the ones who go on saying this.

the impressions in this forum and elsewhere at large prove my point. and I guess I hit a nerve with you if you get all mad like this. you didn't like it, you're in the minority opinion.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Cavill is a good choice he certainly looks the part, but holy shit make up artist could help with his receding hairline, at times he receding hairline stood out more than the Giant S on his chest..

I didn't really notice anything like that, but what really distracted me was the chest hairs sticking out over the neckline of the suit.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I didn't really notice anything like that, but what really distracted me was the chest hairs sticking out over the neckline of the suit.

'cause he's a man baby!

 

[Blader]

Yes, this is dumb writing scene I was referring to. What the hell is she talking about, of course she has a sense of morality. Does the writer not know what morality is?

Don't YOU know that evolution always wins?!

the impressions in this forum and elsewhere at large prove my point. and I guess I hit a nerve with you if you get all mad like this. you didn't like it, you're in the minority opinion.

lol, give me a break. You didn't hit a nerve, it's not like I made the movie or anything. My point is that this "critics have a stick up their own ass and can't enjoy fun" thought process is total bullshit because: a) there are plenty of fun summer movies that were critically acclaimed; b) you wouldn't think that way if either critics loved the movie or you hated it. Chalking up a difference of opinion to the opposing side just being up their own ass or whatever is such a reductionist and intellectually dishonest way of thinking. It's not as if the people who didn't like it aren't being pretty detailed in their reasons why anyway.

I don't think my opinion of the movie is in the minority, I think I'm actually part of the consensus: that it's a mixed movie with some pretty good high points but a lot of fundamental issues. Obviously if not liking the movie was a minority opinion there wouldn't be any debate in the first place

 

[Fuzzery]

Actions and effects were amazing, rest was OK/overlookable.

Some funny one liners in there.

 

[Suairyu]

smh, just shake my damn head.

I know, the film disappointed me, too.

 

[captainnapalm]

That's what I'm saying. Drifter/loner Clark was the final result of all those experiences in the flashbacks (which I agree were great scenes). I think a linear storytelling fashion with some of the scenes being fleshed out would have helped. Maybe spent more time having Clark actually interact with the people he meets while he wanders.

It will become less of a problem when rewatching the movie I think. Once you have the story organised in your mind, you can worry less about piecing things together. There are probably also little payoffs you don't notice in the first viewing either.

 

[3N16MA]

Rushed? Everyone knows the origin of Superman. My *mother* who hasn't read a comic book in her life knows the origin of superman. Why waste time rehashing what everyone already knows? Hell wasn't that one of the main complaints people had about The Amazing Spider-Man was that it spent too long on the origin everyone already knew?

Everyone knows Batman's origins too but Batman Begins does a better job establishing Bruce.

 

[Sanjuro]

Its the best comic film that I've ever seen...discussion wise. With the Donner film, it's endless the amount of comparison, criticism, and praise you can give this film. It's pretty spectacular. I'm at bar right now, just saw it late last night. Can get into more detail later.

If I HAD to give it a score? 75 or 70.

 

[Blader]

Everyone knows Batman's origins too but Batman Begins does a better job establishing Bruce.

I don't know if that's really true. Most people may know that his parents get shot, but there's a ton of stuff you could use to fill in the gap between that and Bruce becoming Batman that the general audience would never have been aware of beforehand.

 

[Lingitiz]

I really liked the first half of the movie, including the first fight. Everything after that was just generic blockbuster crap though.

 

[Sinatar]

Everyone knows Batman's origins too but Batman Begins does a better job establishing Bruce.

Well everyone knows that Bruce's parents were killed so he starts fighting crime. The aspects that BB focused on (how and where he trained and by whom) were definitely not well known. Those gaps don't really exist with Superman.

 

[JDHarbs]

Haven't seen much talk about this, but did anyone else think the 2 kids who played kid Clark and teenage Clark were phenomenal? They didn't get much screen time, but I thought they really helped sell their scenes well.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Haven't seen much talk about this, but did anyone else think the 2 kids who played kid Clark and teenage Clark were phenomenal? They didn't get much screen time, but I thought they really helped sell their scenes well.

I thought they were good.

 

[Solo]

I see we're doing Top 5's

1. Batman Begins/Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man 2/Batman Begins
3. Who
4. Really
5. Cares?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Don't YOU know that evolution always wins?!



lol, give me a break. You didn't hit a nerve, it's not like I made the movie or anything. My point is that this "critics have a stick up their own ass and can't enjoy fun" thought process is total bullshit because: a) there are plenty of fun summer movies that were critically acclaimed; b) you wouldn't think that way if either critics loved the movie or you hated it. Chalking up a difference of opinion to the opposing side just being up their own ass or whatever is such a reductionist and intellectually dishonest way of thinking. It's not as if the people who didn't like it aren't being pretty detailed in their reasons why anyway.

I don't think my opinion of the movie is in the minority, I think I'm actually part of the consensus: that it's a mixed movie with some pretty good high points but a lot of fundamental issues. Obviously if not liking the movie was a minority opinion there wouldn't be any debate in the first place

you see what you want to see, who cares what critics think of ANY movie. I'm not saying the movie is perfect or it doesn't have issues, but what the critics portrayed in their reviews and what the majority of fans are saying are night and day. bottom line, it's a damn good and fun blockbuster type movie. that's all it needed to be and it delivered. now we'll hopefully get a sequel and they'll tweak and improve as needed.

 

[3N16MA]

Well everyone knows that Bruce's parents were killed so he starts fighting crime. The aspects that BB focused on (how and where he trained and by whom) were definitely not well known. Those gaps don't really exist with Superman.

I felt like we got to know how Clark as a child (at least how he is emotionally) but not as a man. How he is dealing with being "alone" on earth, his emotional state, where/how he is living, how does he interact with people when he has to (outside from saving them). I get that he is lonely and drifting from job to job but we never get to see more than that. Perhaps you find those things trivial but they would have helped built the character in my eyes. I wouldn't have minded if the first half was extended to include more of Clark as an adult before he puts on the suit.

 

[jtb]

I see we're doing Top 5's

1. Batman Begins/Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man 2/Batman Begins
3. Who
4. Really
5. Cares?

are you not counting the Incredibles because it's not an adaptation? and Raimi > Nolan for sure.

 

[Solo]

are you not counting the Incredibles because it's not an adaptation? and Raimi > Nolan for sure.

Yeah, Incredibles doesn't qualify.

 

[Sanjuro]

I see we're doing Top 5's

1. Batman Begins/Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man 2/Batman Begins
3. Who
4. Really
5. Cares?

Where is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?!

 

[Toa TAK]

I see we're doing Top 5's

1. Batman Begins/Spider-Man 2
2. Spider-Man 2/Batman Begins
3. Who
4. Really
5. Cares?

That looks about right.

 

[Cooter]

Haters gonna hate. I freaking loved that movie! It could have been better, sure, but it was really good! 9.25/10

 

[Maninthemirror]

where is Krypt0nian? he's not banned so why hasn't he chimed in?

building up to the moment then

BAMMMM!!!

Spoiler

he will say he loves it

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I felt like we got to know how Clark as a child (at least how he is emotionally) but not as a man. How he is dealing with being "alone" on earth, his emotional state, where/how he is living, how does he interact with people when he has to (outside from saving them). I get that he is lonely and drifting from job to job but we never get to see more than that. Perhaps you find those things trivial but they would have helped built the character in my eyes. I wouldn't have minded if the first half was extended to include more of Clark as an adult before he puts on the suit.

then it just would be a straight copy of begins. I think he answered as to why he was drifting "I have so many questions" that was it. he was looking for answers around the world. then when he gets back to Smallville with that big grin on his face, it's a look of satisfaction and relief, he finally found what he was looking for.

 

[jtb]

then it just would be a straight copy of begins. I think he answered as to why he was drifting "I have so many questions" that was it. he was looking for answers around the world. then when he gets back to Smallville with that big grin on his face, it's a look of satisfaction and relief, he finally found what he was looking for.

It wouldn't be a straight copy if Clark is a different character than Bruce. Which he should be.

 

[bob_arctor]

Jeez, this thread has gotten a little testy. What was that line Lois had when first meeting the military in the Arctic? One thing I think we can agree on is that this movie puts Superman back in the filmic hero landscape, which is what I wanted ultimately (aside from loving the movie of course). Moving past Donner's classic took a long time but it finally happened.

Feels good to have the Big S back.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

It wouldn't be a straight copy if Clark is a different character than Bruce. Which he should be.

he is. but their motivations are different. Clark wants answers, Bruce is looking for means on how to achieve what he wants to do.

 

[jtb]

he is. but their motivations are different. Clark wants answers, Bruce is looking for means on how to achieve what he wants to do.

Exactly. Then, even if the vague outlines of scenarios might heavily overlap, they will each be different enough to justify each other's own existence imo. Personally, I really wanted more drifter Clark and less childhood Clark, or at the very least, to choose on or the other because it felt like it tried to do both but it didn't commit to either so they were both a bit rushed (drifter) or half-baked (childhood).

 

[ReiGun]

We should have had more drifter Clark since we ultimately spend more time with Clark as an adult, and we needed that time to really connect with him.

The flashbacks could have been weaved in as stories he's telling to someone or a journal he's writing or something.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

We should have had more drifter Clark since we ultimately spend more time with Clark as an adult, and we needed that time to really connect with him.

The flashbacks could have been weaved in as stories he's telling to someone or a journal he's writing or something.

this isn't a comic book Rei, we don't have enough time for that. movies have to be a lot things to a lot of people, they have to entertain above all else.

 

[jtb]

Batman Begins was entertaining. do it well, it'll be damn entertaining.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Batman Begins was entertaining. do it well, it'll be damn entertaining.

the first half. the other half was so-so.

 

[WAR recon zero]

when's the BLuray?

 

[duckroll]

you see what you want to see, who cares what critics think of ANY movie. I'm not saying the movie is perfect or it doesn't have issues, but what the critics portrayed in their reviews and what the majority of fans are saying are night and day. bottom line, it's a damn good and fun blockbuster type movie. that's all it needed to be and it delivered. now we'll hopefully get a sequel and they'll tweak and improve as needed.

If you don't care about what critics think of a movie, why would it bother you enough to complain about it? If you go around saying that critics have their head up their asses, obviously you do care what they think, and you desire people who are negative about the movie to have a different opinion.

Trying to dismiss criticism by hand waving it away isn't very effective. If you disagree with a certain opinion, you should address it. If you don't care for someone's opinion, then there is no need to mention it. Feeling the need to lash out at people for not liking what you like is childish and shows insecurity.

 

[ReiGun]

this isn't a comic book Rei, we don't have enough time for that. movies have to be a lot things to a lot of people, they have to entertain above all else.

Cut a few of the flashbacks, have drifter Clark in one place telling some new friend about his journeys in a line of dialogue ("I've been moving around a lot since college. Just trying to find myself" or something to that affect), he and the friend connect while Clark tells him stories about his childhood (using vague language, obviously), then he heads to the arctic after doing a big save that forces him to leave.

There. I liked the flashbacks, but I'd have no problem losing a few to get more characterization for adult Clark.

 

[Spectral Glider]

It's not hard to understand.

All he did was scream. Anyone can scream, doesn't make them a performer. Shannon can implement duality in his characters unlike anyone else today. His work in Boardwalk Empire is surreal. Watching him struggle with a one dimensional character like Zod who makes his entrance blasting people dead with little knowledge of the man Jor-El alluded to is a cop out. The blame falls purely on the writers. I would have liked to have understood what the cause of his downfall was. As is, we see someone who has no moral fiber and little understanding as to why he was compelled to go about implementing his vision the way he did. It truly was, by definition, a one sided character. We never got to see the man, only the monster.

I like how Zod was able to build a warp drive that would make Macgyver proud and pick up a "world engine" along the way as he travels worlds that once were Krypton outposts. But when it comes to finding the ship Kal crash landed on a farm in, he's unable to detect that it's hidden in a barn so he has to scream and yell at Ma Kent. He's so full of depth, that Zod.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Bane was better than Zod.

 

[Akahige]

6/10

solid action flick, too many unnecessary scenes, thankfully alot better than TDKR