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Marathon Alpha Impressions

I think the guns\gunplay is going to make the difference here for a lot of people. It just didn't feel good in Arc to me. It's not horrible but it's not that great either. I also felt like I was killing people way to quickly. I could see myself sticking with Arc even with all that though. I need to play Marathon though and see how that plays. If the gunplay is better I see myself sticking with that game overall.
I feel pretty much the same way, although I'll probably won't buy ARC. I'll give it a bit more time with the playtest, but I doubt it's a game for me.

I'd rather play Hunt.

As for Marathon, I need to play it first, but I have no doubts about the gunplay and gameplay loop will be good.

It'll be mostly the exterior visuals they really need to improve on and that hook that'll most likely be the raid-like 4th map.
 
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I feel pretty much the same way, although I'll probably won't buy ARC. I'll give it a bit more time with the playtest, but I doubt it's a game for me.

I'd rather play Hunt.

As for Marathon, I need to play it first, but I have no doubts about the gunplay and gameplay loop will be good.

It'll be mostly the exterior visuals they really need to improve on and that hook that'll most likely be the raid-like 4th map.

Man I tried to get into Hunt but I just couldn't do it. To me it's even worse than Arc. I just hated the gunplay in that game so much. I felt like I could never see/hit anyone in that game. My cousins loved it though and played it all the time but I just never enjoyed it.
 
559 users at this moment according to steamdb and a daily peak of 1443, jesus traincrash christ. There has to be panicmode in the bungieoffices right about now.
 
559 users at this moment according to steamdb and a daily peak of 1443, jesus traincrash christ. There has to be panicmode in the bungieoffices right about now.
They have that mythical 4th map and a safety and compliance team to protect delicate ears from people saying bad stuff that will save the day, they aint worried
 
559 users at this moment according to steamdb and a daily peak of 1443, jesus traincrash christ. There has to be panicmode in the bungieoffices right about now.
Not really. If they were arsed about ccu's they would be giving codes outs like candy.

They were after feedback about the game and the message has been fairly clear. Game needs alot of work.

Reminds me of the last Arc Raider test 6 months ago.
 
Not really. If they were arsed about ccu's they would be giving codes outs like candy.

They were after feedback about the game and the message has been fairly clear. Game needs alot of work.

Reminds me of the last Arc Raider test 6 months ago.
Nope, this is a traincrash, you can spin it all you want, wont change it though:)
 
Not really. If they were arsed about ccu's they would be giving codes outs like candy.

They were after feedback about the game and the message has been fairly clear. Game needs alot of work.

Reminds me of the last Arc Raider test 6 months ago.
Really hope they do something with the feedback as for me personally the hook isn't there to make me grind 3 maps to get to play a 4th
 
Really hope they do something with the feedback as for me personally the hook isn't there to make me grind 3 maps to get to play a 4th
Yep.

Clearly the game needs a lot of work. Like i was saying the last Arc Raider test was dull as dish water. They took on feed back and cracked on with what they already had and the result seems great.

I think the best move for Marathon would be to delay for a full year to add features that should be standard in this genre.
 
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Yep.

Clearly the game need a lot of work. Like i was saying the last Arc Raider test was dull as dish water. They took on feed back and cracked on with what they already had and the result seems great.

I think the best move for Marathon would be to delay for a full year to add features that should be standard in this genre.
They do need a delay they can't release anywhere near Arc not to mention so many other games last few months of the year, people will only buy so many games
 
The avatar change was prophetic, I'll give you that.
There's nothing wrong with a game that's designed for a very specific audience, but if you do that you don't suddenly grow the audience tenfold because it's bungie, embark or even Naughty Dog etc. Fairgame$ looks set to have the same fate as well.

Again, I didn't really think Factions was going to blow up like Fortnite but I guarantee it will have performed better than Marathon is set to. The Horizon GaaS will do very well I think.

Extraction shooters might take five or more years to find a formula that works and is acceptable to mainstream audiences. Will any studio get that sort of time? I doubt it in this climate tbh.
 
Even if they wanted to, I don't know that Sony would let them. They might have to have another round of layoffs to manage that.
Typical Bungie. Grand ambitions that don't play out, scrap everything then push something out of the door and fix it later.

They had a lot of credit with Destiny due to Halo.

This time not so much. I want this to be good but i fear they are about to get a massive wake up call
 
It continues to be depressing to me how common it is to see people wishing failure upon a game. Lots of jobs will be riding on this.

Personally, I hope they are able to make a good game that finds success.
 
It continues to be depressing to me how common it is to see people wishing failure upon a game. Lots of jobs will be riding on this.

Personally, I hope they are able to make a good game that finds success.
Most people don't want a game to fail, people want these devs getting destroyed for slop though

Jobs are usually fine if you put out a great product

There is time to make Marathon decent, in its current form heads do indeed need to roll
 
Jobs are usually fine if you put out a great product

That's pretty naive and doesn't at all match up with the industry as I've observed it for decades.

Great games flop all the time. This is a very harsh industry; luck and timing play a huge role in whether games do well and a single game doing badly can destroy an entire studio sometimes.

We've seen all of that again and again and again.
 
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The Marathon Alpha begins today at 1pm EST and runs until May 4th. Bungie will continue to accept players in waves starting tomorrow. Join the Marathon discord to sign up for the Alpha


Sparrow Racing in the original Destiny was more fun than this looks. And I know some of you *despise* sparrow racing from D1.

It's only a matter of time before Sony takes Bungie out to the farm upstate where other video game companies go when they get long in the tooth.
 
Great games flop all the time.

We've seen all of that again and again and again.

But this isn't a great game. Even in alpha. These games are designed specifically to turn gamers into subscribers and extract cash in various, predatory ways.

If you go to the diablo 4 sub or EA FUT or 2K VC chats you'll see the same. It's just frustration at the practise and quality. And yes, this is based on what Bungie did with Eververse and Destiny. There is no goodwill left.

Games like Gotham Knights, Suicide Squad and Saints Row are competently made games and do 'fail' but for different reasons. If you make games that don't appeal to the significant part of the market you're selling to, then they won't buy your product.
 
There's nothing wrong with a game that's designed for a very specific audience, but if you do that you don't suddenly grow the audience tenfold because it's bungie, embark or even Naughty Dog etc. Fairgame$ looks set to have the same fate as well.

Again, I didn't really think Factions was going to blow up like Fortnite but I guarantee it will have performed better than Marathon is set to. The Horizon GaaS will do very well I think.

Extraction shooters might take five or more years to find a formula that works and is acceptable to mainstream audiences. Will any studio get that sort of time? I doubt it in this climate tbh.
I'm curious if you could answer two questions...

1. How do you rationalize Escape from Tarkov breaking 200k CCU in 2020? Do you feel that game represents the genres ceiling?

2. Why are roguelites one of, if not the most popular indie genres in gaming?
 
There's nothing wrong with a game that's designed for a very specific audience, but if you do that you don't suddenly grow the audience tenfold because it's bungie, embark or even Naughty Dog etc. Fairgame$ looks set to have the same fate as well.

Again, I didn't really think Factions was going to blow up like Fortnite but I guarantee it will have performed better than Marathon is set to. The Horizon GaaS will do very well I think.

Extraction shooters might take five or more years to find a formula that works and is acceptable to mainstream audiences. Will any studio get that sort of time? I doubt it in this climate tbh.
Oh yes it would have. I remember playing a bit of Factions back then. It was fun, without any predatory GAAS stuff, the whole thing was genuinely good with great maps and artstyle from Uncharted 4. Shit I remember how enjoyable KZ SF MP mode was. I was hooked to that game. When did they forget their customers and what they wanted and previously loved? Who is in charge of this whole mess at Playstation HQ? Managers?
 
30hrs into Marathon. I have done the majority of upgrades from the 3 factions shown. Some upgrades are nearly impossible to get with just the 2 alpha maps. There are 3 more additional factions coming at launch as well as another map. I would guess there is about 50-60hrs of content before reaching endgame content

This has been my favorite PvP experience since Apex Legends. It is crazy to think how few AAA PvP games have released in that timeframe. It hit all the right spots for me, but I can understand people's complaints. Regardless, I really hope it finds a playerbase, at least on console. There is no extraction shooter like Marathon available for console players. I'm still not sure if it's a game I'll sink many 100s of hours into, but im excited for launch
 
Feel exactly the same. Hunt is just the top of the line with this genre. I do hope Arc Raiders has some legs to it down the road to be a good option for those that can't get into Hunt.
"Top of the line" in a genre with 3 mainstream entries in the genre is a low bar indeed...especially when most fans of the genre think Tarkov is the high water mark.

ARC Raiders will boat race Hunt right off the bat. This is a Tarkov vs ARC Raiders event now.
 
Not really. If they were arsed about ccu's they would be giving codes outs like candy.

They were after feedback about the game and the message has been fairly clear. Game needs alot of work.

Reminds me of the last Arc Raider test 6 months ago.
In terms of balance, sure. But they weren't looking for the kind of feedback they're getting - not this close to launch. These kinds of tests have been glorified marketing events for years - but in this case, it's backfired spectacularly. Don't presume Bungie are going to action literally any of the major feedback they've received by launch - they simply don't move that fast.
 
In terms of balance, sure. But they weren't looking for the kind of feedback they're getting - not this close to launch. These kinds of tests have been glorified marketing events for years - but in this case, it's backfired spectacularly. Don't presume Bungie are going to action literally any of the major feedback they've received by launch - they simply don't move that fast.
It'll be interesting what Bunge improves for launch.

They stated a laundry list of fixes covering practically anything you can think of but it was vague. For example when they said they'd improve things, nobody knows how great th graphics and UI will be improved and some of the things on their list werent even confirmed fixes. Some points were "under consideration" or they are thinking of it like prox chat and training mode.
 
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"Top of the line" in a genre with 3 mainstream entries in the genre is a low bar indeed...especially when most fans of the genre think Tarkov is the high water mark.

ARC Raiders will boat race Hunt right off the bat. This is a Tarkov vs ARC Raiders event now.
I respectfully disagree, but glad you're enjoying it. I am rooting for it to be sure. It's an Alpha play test. So, I'm intrigued on if this has legs in the long run when this game gets a full release.
 
1. How do you rationalize Escape from Tarkov breaking 200k CCU in 2020? Do you feel that game represents the genres ceiling?
The game uses the extraction shooter concept and became pretty successful. But the game has several things that makes it too hardcore, frustrating and niche, making most players run away from it.

Meaning, this subgenre has potential to be much bigger, to adapt it and make it mainstream friendly, making it more appealing to a way bigger audience. Companies see that there is a potential higher ceiling in the subgenre and compared to other ones, a low amount of successful games as real competition in this subgenre. This is why many are trying to make their own take on extraction shooters.

2. Why are roguelites one of, if not the most popular indie genres in gaming?
They aren't.
 
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"Top of the line" in a genre with 3 mainstream entries in the genre is a low bar indeed...especially when most fans of the genre think Tarkov is the high water mark.
Funny enough, while some people talk up Tarkov we have the same people saying they won't touch it due to cheaters, in this very thread.

The same people that also say they expect ARC to be ruined by cheaters.

That's certainly one complaint I haven't heard about Marathon yet.
 
Not really. I listen to all sides.

The ones making the comparison are mostly older gamers that are being mocked and laughed at by mostly the younger generations.

LOL wut?

You're coping hard, but better get those youngsters together and start buying the game, because its struggling to keep 1k players.
 
LOL wut?

You're coping hard, but better get those youngsters together and start buying the game, because its struggling to keep 1k players.
What am I coping with exactly?

I repeatedly said Bungie can easily fuck it up.

And even if the game gets canceled, it won't matter because there's other games to play.
 
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I'm curious if you could answer two questions...

1. How do you rationalize Escape from Tarkov breaking 200k CCU in 2020? Do you feel that game represents the genres ceiling?

2. Why are roguelites one of, if not the most popular indie genres in gaming?

I don't really think about it too much. Tarkov had a really strong twitch campaign, and breaking the 200k CCU was on the back of quite mediocre numbers, fatigue of other shooters and using several streamers at the height of their power like Dr Disrespect. Over time it got to that critical mass it needed. It's also difficult to truly measure as we don't have current CCU, but I'm guessing it gets the 'season' bounce and then tails off - as is the usual case with all these types of mechanic (genre not withstanding). It also has a quite good self sustaining loop of needing to watch Twitch to uncover the obscurity, which keeps it in the top 20 games and probably a stream of newer players trying it to complement the hardcore.

Like that Aztecross said, you have to be first or you have to be good. Tarkov doesn't surpass PUBG for example, and looking on Steam, Hunt doesn't even crack 20k, nor does Dark and Darker.

If Tarkov hasn't moved on significantly from 2020 CCU then I'd say it's probably found it's audience peak - for the foreseeable, until it goes through it's formal release and we reappraise where it sits.

The problem is you can't just take what is good on PC and throw it on console and expect it to just work. I will concede the genre - if done right - has a gap on consoles and whoever is 'first' to crack the formula will probably make bank. Marathon is not there. Arc Raiders is more in line with what console players will expect as a complete experience. It may get very front loaded sales but I still see them dying off within 12m in terms of players. If this genre wants to exploit the golden goose of console games they fundamentally need to adjust the way it works. To be fair Marathon and Arc have both put a little tweak or two on the formula but it really needs revolution not evolution.

Regarding 2, I'm not sure if you mean multiplayer? Either way though the game loop has to be fun - like Returnal. Sweating to get loot, to get dropped by a trio camping an exfil is not fun. Nor is spending all your all time gathering loot to sound an alarm to everyone on the server to come and get you. If its meant to be 'hardcore' then why artificially provoke PvP encounters? The genre lends itself to sweaty play.

The audience these games are chasing are not small niche playerbases. They want to be the 'first' on console. And right now they aren't interested in innovating the genre or finding a new formula. They are interested in just transplanting a by the numbers game and monetising it. Which is why there is such disdain. Arc at least looks like it has had a fair amount of care put into it and they've committed to the direction at least.
 
If i where Bungo i would just shut down the servers(lets get real, there arent anyone on them anyway) right now and delete everything about this catastrophe and never talk about it again. People asking: Hey, what happened to that game Marathon? Bungo Answers: What game?
 
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I don't really think about it too much. Tarkov had a really strong twitch campaign, and breaking the 200k CCU was on the back of quite mediocre numbers, fatigue of other shooters and using several streamers at the height of their power like Dr Disrespect.
This is the greatest schmorgishborg of disqualifying statements ever. And to start off your post like that...

bye-blow-kiss.gif
 


the hits keep coming

I don't think that this type of feeling is one that leads to mainstream success. If Bungie wants a mainstream title they don't want the game to be "sweaty" like this.

Tarkov probably hasn't improved significantly from the 200k CCU during the coof that Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes always talks about. Now I am not saying Marathon is going to be a mainstream success but it needs to do things differently to get a bigger audience. Normies have had five+ years to gravitate to Tarkov and other extractin shooters and they haven't.
 
I don't think that this type of feeling is one that leads to mainstream success. If Bungie wants a mainstream title they don't want the game to be "sweaty" like this.

Tarkov probably hasn't improved significantly from the 200k CCU during the coof that Men_in_Boxes Men_in_Boxes always talks about. Now I am not saying Marathon is going to be a mainstream success but it needs to do things differently to get a bigger audience. Normies have had five+ years to gravitate to Tarkov and other extractin shooters and they haven't.
We also have people in here saying how they won't touch Tarkov because it's full of cheaters. Those people are saying they expect ARC to be full of cheaters as well.

That's also something that's probably worth taking into consideration.
 
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I don't think that this type of feeling is one that leads to mainstream success. If Bungie wants a mainstream title they don't want the game to be "sweaty" like this.
The great art mediums throughout history try to illicit emotion from their audience.

The high intensity moments Shroud is talking about come between extended down periods, which give the experience an organic storylike feel.

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If you want to know which genres are in trouble and which genres are the future, find out which ones reliably illicit emotion from their audience.
 
The great art mediums throughout history try to illicit emotion from their audience.

The high intensity moments Shroud is talking about come between extended down periods, which give the experience an organic storylike feel.

large_thumb%402x.png


If you want to know which genres are in trouble and which genres are the future, find out which ones reliably illicit emotion from their audience.
Does Bungie want to make great art or make a buck.
 
You can make a buck far easier if you can illicit emotion. Far harder to do so with boredom.
The right type of emotion, the one that keeps people playing, because these games rely on engagement.

Like I said, there is no evidence Tarkov is any bigger now than it was five years ago. I am reminded of World of Warcraft which was a far more casual and forgiving game than EverQuest, which had XP loss on death and corpse runs which made the hardcore fans say exactly what that guy was saying about ARC Raiders. Of course WoW was like 40 times bigger than EQ at its peak. And WoW has only gotten more casual over the years to the point where they are bragging about how the game basically plays itself in the new patch (and of course WoW peaked like 10 years ago).
 
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The right type of emotion, the one that keeps people playing, because these games rely on engagement.
The most successful books, movies, TV shows illicit the most emotion from their audience. Roller coasters, concerts, sporting events too.

We want thrill. We don't want boredom.

If Marathon can deliver thrill at the right rate, it'll do phenomenally well...as all games do. The key is delivering thrill / tension at the right rate.
 
The most successful books, movies, TV shows illicit the most emotion from their audience. Roller coasters, concerts, sporting events too.

We want thrill. We don't want boredom.

If Marathon can deliver thrill at the right rate, it'll do phenomenally well...as all games do. The key is delivering thrill / tension at the right rate.
See my point about EQ and WoW.
 
See my point about EQ and WoW.
This would be a stronger point if a multitude of other variables weren't also in play.

Combustion and flamability wasn't the only factor in gasoline success.

My point remains strong. If you can get people to laugh, yell, cry, shout, or jump from your gameplay experience...you're following the right thread. Bungie identified the right thread.

It's why the people who parrot the "trend chasing" line don't understand people or games very much.
 
This would be a stronger point if a multitude of other variables weren't also in play.

Combustion and flamability wasn't the only factor in gasoline success.

My point remains strong. If you can get people to laugh, yell, cry, shout, or jump from your gameplay experience...you're following the right thread. Bungie identified the right thread.

It's why the people who parrot the "trend chasing" line don't understand people or games very much.
You are just speaking gibberish here.
 
You are just speaking gibberish here.
You're central idea (unless I'm mistaken) is that games which produce high tension are niche by nature.

I'm saying that high tension is a core ingredient in broadly enjoyable experiences.

So just because sugar is a core ingredient in a cookie...it's illogical to say "Well cookie X (low sugar) is more popular than cookie Y (high sugar) therefore sugar is niche by nature. No, sugar is still a vital ingredient and generally cookies with high sugar outperform cookies with low sugar.

Your cherry picking of EQ vs WoW is not a convincing argument.
 
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