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March Wrasslin' |OT| Don't Forget, You're Here Forever.

S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
klonere said:
Yes, tell me more about that 50/50 booking when the Shield debuted, instantly in the main event and started fucking shit up every week.

Talk about that 50/50 booking where the New Day get full segments of promo time week after week, get to go over clean vs AJ/Jericho and have held the tag belts for many many months.

Talk to me about that booking where Owens got to come in as a heel and beat Cena clean on his debut. Got a big spot with a celebrity guest, gets promo time, gets to feud with "main event" talent. Gets to have 20 minute kick out fests.

Talk to be about Bray, who isn't even on that 50/50 booking, he just fucking loses, has lost a ton of mystique and is still all over the show?

You wanna tell me Jack Swagger is over? He was given the most braindead possible gimmick to get over with 99% American crowds after he started being racist.

Big Show's been around for a 100 years and no one gives a shit.

Dolph hahahaha

Rusev is a tragedy and we both know he should be in a better place.

The point is...Tyler never got a chance to get over. He got his entrance stripped away, he got no promos, he got A WIN over someone nobody really cares about anymore, had his storyline aborted not even halfway through and is on C shows. That's isn't "failing to get your gimmick over" that's "getting your legs chopped off". Johnny fucking Nitro got a bigger opportunity at this gimmick than Breeze.
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You don't need to be polite with him and shorten it down to individual names.

Everybody was given more of a shot than Breeze.

That Lana/Dolph/Rusev/Summer shitfest angle went on and on and on for almost 6 months; Breeze wasn't even consistently on TV for a full month. Kizarny had promo ads hyping his debut for 2 months; Breeze just popped up on TV and (again) was gone for the most part by the end of the month. I can't think of anybody else in the company's modern, post-WCW/ECW history who they so blatantly cared so little about.
 
O

Oersted

Member
Issue with the Tyler Breeze Gimmick is, it does simply not translate well into in-ring action.

A Demon, a lunatic, a superman, world strongest athlete, the Beast Incarnate....

a selfiestick.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Oersted said:
Issue with the Tyler Breeze Gimmick is, it does simply not translate well into in-ring action.

A Demon, a lunatic, a superman, world strongest athlete, the Beast Incarnate....

a selfiestick.
Click to expand...

Rick Martel did fine with an 80s version of this, it can be overcome. Bad gimmickry can be overcome.

It's a mix of both. If you're not an exceptional talent, you won't be able to make it work with good booking. If you get poor booking and you're not an exceptional talent, then it dies on the vine. He's GOOD, but he's not GREAT.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Sephzilla said:
...if you've never watched NXT.
Click to expand...

I feel like this isn't a valid response. If this is how the front office approached this then it's just bad form. They shouldn't assume that everyone is watching NXT and that tapped into the stories going on there. When I started watching again it was shortly before Breeze came up. If my initial reaction to him is "well this is shit" and the announcers aren't doing enough to sell him, then what's my incentive to go back and watch his NXT stuff to find out what he's about?

While I get they didn't do enough for him a wrestler should be capable of doing stuff IN the ring to help sell him. Look at all the shit Owens does to help him get over. I'm not saying he needs to be constantly shouting and fighting with Cole, but he could be doing something. It's not just about your entrance or promos. Give me some character in the ring to help sell who you are.
 
S

slightconfuse

Banned
Vince McMahon said:
Rick Martel did fine with an 80s version of this, it can be overcome. Bad gimmickry can be overcome.

It's a mix of both. If you're not an exceptional talent, you won't be able to make it work with good booking. If you get poor booking and you're not an exceptional talent, then it dies on the vine. He's GOOD, but he's not GREAT.
Click to expand...

Yea but Rick Martel was great. Breeze is Dolph 2.0
 
D

DMczaf

Member
What if Shane wins, and then during the "Celebration Night" he swerves everyone at the end and cuts his "I've been waiting 15 god damn years for this. You people are the reason I was stopped in the first place. I present to you....MONDAY. NIGHT. NITRO!"

Another 20 years of beating the Monday Night Wars storyline into the ground!
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
DMczaf said:
What if Shane wins, and then during the "Celebration Night" he swerves everyone at the end and cuts his "I've been waiting 15 god damn years for this. You people are the reason I was stopped in the first place. I present to you....MONDAY. NIGHT. NITRO!"

Another 20 years of beating the Monday Night Wars storyline into the ground!
Click to expand...

socPQ5C.gif
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
slightconfuse said:
You guys seriously arguing over breeze. Guy was never going to be more than a low midcarder

Save you energy for Finn, Sami or Nakamura
Click to expand...

I still think Breeze can be an over achiever, similar to how Zack Ryder had his fifteen minutes of shine way back when.

Honestly, WWE doesn't give many people a chance to overachieve. They could use a ton of overachievers right now. Breeze is one of them.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Shane vs Taker will end with Sting interfering and helping Shane, because Shane is still technically his boss.

JavyOO7 said:
I still think Breeze can be an over achiever, similar to how Zack Ryder had his fifteen minutes of shine way back when.

Honestly, WWE doesn't give many people a chance to overachieve. They could use a ton of overachievers right now. Breeze is one of them.
Click to expand...

Shit, if Ryder can get fifteen minutes of fame then Breeze should easily be able to top that because, unlike Ryder, Breeze actually has talent
 
K

klonere

Banned
TarpitCarnivore said:
I feel like this isn't a valid response. If this is how the front office approached this then it's just bad form. They shouldn't assume that everyone is watching NXT and that tapped into the stories going on there. When I started watching again it was shortly before Breeze came up. If my initial reaction to him is "well this is shit" and the announcers aren't doing enough to sell him, then what's my incentive to go back and watch his NXT stuff to find out what he's about?

While I get they didn't do enough for him a wrestler should be capable of doing stuff IN the ring to help sell him. Look at all the shit Owens does to help him get over. I'm not saying he needs to be constantly shouting and fighting with Cole, but he could be doing something. It's not just about your entrance or promos. Give me some character in the ring to help sell who you are.
Click to expand...

There are zero parallels to draw between Owens and Breeze in terms of their callup and place on the card, zero. One guy lost a feud to Ziggler, one guy got to cut promos side by side with Cena and beat him in his first match. Owens also does moonsaults and tons of spectacular shit that a heel shouldn't really be doing to get over so there is that.

Breeze has a few great little touches to his in ring stuff that sets his character apart BUT of course he never really got a chance to show it off. But again, I'd have to send you back to watch NXT which isn't Tyler's fault - it's creatives and the booking for not giving the opportunity to do so.

I'm not screaming for Breeze to be in the main event or have a deathgrip on the US title or something guys come the fuck on.
 
I

Ithil

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
I feel like this isn't a valid response. If this is how the front office approached this then it's just bad form. They shouldn't assume that everyone is watching NXT and that tapped into the stories going on there. When I started watching again it was shortly before Breeze came up. If my initial reaction to him is "well this is shit" and the announcers aren't doing enough to sell him, then what's my incentive to go back and watch his NXT stuff to find out what he's about?

While I get they didn't do enough for him a wrestler should be capable of doing stuff IN the ring to help sell him. Look at all the shit Owens does to help him get over. I'm not saying he needs to be constantly shouting and fighting with Cole, but he could be doing something. It's not just about your entrance or promos. Give me some character in the ring to help sell who you are.
Click to expand...

That's not what he meant at all. He mean Breeze was clearly capable of making the gimmick work in NXT, so there was no reason they couldn't copy that for RAW. Instead they stripped out basically everything other than the stick and made him a jobber right away.

It would be one thing if they copied his NXT role and gave it a good chance, then it just didn't work. NXT right now is doing that with the Drifter. He sucks, the gimmick sucks, and everyone knows it, but they are at least giving him a chance instead of instantly burying him after one match. Eventually the chance will expire and he'll get dropped down the card, but who will argue with that decision?
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Fox318 said:
Lapsed fan brought up something.

What would Hogan or a guy like HHH actually look like in a real fight?
Click to expand...
Getting their ass beat. Hogan knew not to try a lot of those guys in the back. He was a fake tough guy. Hunter hid behind the suits and guys in marketing so yeah, he wasn't willing to get his blue blooded ass beat.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Fox318 said:
Lapsed fan brought up something.

What would Hogan or a guy like HHH actually look like in a real fight?
Click to expand...

I remember one of their episodes they talked about Stone Cold attacking an employee at Wendy's while throwing worked open handed punches. I laughed hard as fuck, but then realized I'm pretty sure that's how most pro wrestlers would be like.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
DMczaf said:
In your head you're going "Lol idiot....*remembers WM31 Sting vs HHH* ....oh...oh fuck....NO! NOOOOO!"
Click to expand...

WWE doesn't need to touch Nitro again in any way shape or form!
 
K

klonere

Banned
DMczaf said:
I remember one of their episodes they talked about Stone Cold attacking an employee at Wendy's while throwing worked open handed punches. I laughed hard as fuck, but then realized I'm pretty sure that's how most pro wrestlers would be like.
Click to expand...

Didn't Phil Punk talk about having to de-program himself from throwing worked punches?

I'd say Vader would have no problem, his punches were fucking real.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
DMczaf said:
I remember one of their episodes they talked about Stone Cold attacking an employee at Wendy's while throwing worked open handed punches. I laughed hard as fuck, but then realized I'm pretty sure that's how most pro wrestlers would be like.
Click to expand...
You'd think after being able to stiff Vince, he would do better
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
klonere said:
There are zero parallels to draw between Owens and Breeze in terms of their callup and place on the card, zero.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to draw a parallel in their callups and what they were given, just in how a guy can work his gimmick beyond an entrance. It's not just Owens that can do this, other guys can as well. Not that it matters but my biggest gripe with Ambrose is kind of similar: his in ring work / persona doesn't line up with his promo persona (to me at least)

Ithil said:
That's not what he meant at all. He mean Breeze was clearly capable of making the gimmick work in NXT, so there was no reason they couldn't copy that for RAW. Instead they stripped out basically everything other than the stick and made him a jobber right away.
Click to expand...

The RAW and NXT crowds are completely different though. Hell, even city to city RAW crowds are different. Unless you're saying his character in NXT was more nuanced in how he handled himself (walk to the ring, in the ring, etc).
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
what if it's not really a face vs face at mania

what if when vince said "my greatest creation vs my greatest failure", he wasn't referring to who we thought

what if shane wins... and sides with the authority the next night on raw? and nothing changes at all?

because I can totally see that happening. wwe ain't about babyface authority figures.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Anth0ny said:
what if it's not really a face vs face at mania

what if when vince said "my greatest creation vs my greatest failure", he wasn't referring to who we thought

what if shane wins... and sides with the authority the next night on raw? and nothing changes at all?

because I can totally see that happening. wwe ain't about babyface authority figures.
Click to expand...
Oh if Shane wins I fully expect him to be a heel authority figure by SummerSlam.
 
I

Ithil

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
The RAW and NXT crowds are completely different though. Hell, even city to city RAW crowds are different. Unless you're saying his character in NXT was more nuanced in how he handled himself (walk to the ring, in the ring, etc).
Click to expand...

That would be a valid point only if they actually had given him a chance, and he just didn't work out over time. They did not do that, they already decided he was DOA before he even debuted.
You would think, given the total dearth of stars they have, and the overabundance of time they have between 3 hour RAWs and 2 hour Smackdowns every week, that their problem would be given people too much time, not that no one other than the Authority and whoever the Authority are feuding with get more than a couple of minutes a week if they're lucky.

I mean, Owens isn't given shit either. That he is able to turn the nothing role he's really given into a distinct character is a testament to how superb he really is. Imagine what he could do if actually given something of substance. Maybe he'll get that with the Sami feud, but I'm not expecting them to get much more than "wrestle each other a lot".
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Asking in here since I haven't in a while; anybody got a spot in a hotel room for Mania weekend? Need one. Will pay cash money forever
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
DMczaf said:
Reading the Cloverfield Lane reviews.

Pretty sure we have one of our Carny of the Year nominees.
Click to expand...

I saw it at the premiere and nah.

Cloverfield was always about weird paranormal shit, and that is absolutely in the film. It doesn't dominate everything for most of the runtime, but that didn't happen in the first one either. It's absolutely a Cloverfield film in both respects, but there's no huge lion or Clovie. You go in knowing that and being fine with that, and you'll enjoy it a lot in my opinion. I know I did.
 
H

Hex

Banned
Sweeney Tom said:
I saw it at the premiere and nah.

Cloverfield was always about weird paranormal shit, and that is absolutely in the film. It doesn't dominate everything for most of the runtime, but that didn't happen in the first one either. It's absolutely a Cloverfield film in both respects, but there's no huge lion or Clovie. You go in knowing that and being fine with that, and you'll enjoy it a lot in my opinion. I know I did.
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Going to trust you on this

Bluekaveli said:
Those punches aren't going to work against a dead man. He must be preparing for Kama at the HoF. The dead man is just going to drop him in his fucking head and bury him.
Click to expand...

Nut punch and knee and hip kicks are the key to the fall of the dead man.
It is known.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
BronsonLee said:
Asking in here since I haven't in a while; anybody got a spot in a hotel room for Mania weekend? Need one. Will pay cash money forever
Click to expand...

My main Meng Mechashiva may have an opening, you may want to PM him. I think he has a big group, and big groups tend to drop people.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Hex said:
Going to trust you on this



Nut punch and knee and hip kicks are the key to the fall of the dead man.
It is known.
Click to expand...
Not this time damnit. We're wearing a steel cup and football hip pads. You gotta be ready for these motherfuckers who think they've figured you out.
 
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