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[Cybit]

It wasn't "up until the Rumble" and it wasn't "Bryan only". If you want to quibble with Jericho's statements at that granular a level, have at it.

Roman, Rollins, and Ambrose were massively popular in the Shield. They were massively popular when the Shield split. Big reactions.

Then The Dirtsheetz (sigh) started leaking "Reigns to win title at WM 31?" and later "Reigns v. Lesnar for title at WM31?". When that happened, it became a "guarantee" to (insert your preferred terminology for smarks) that Reigns was Wrestlemania main-event bound. That's when those who had liked Reigns turned on him: he was getting the spot that their absolute favorites (Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler) weren't going to get. Hate was on from that moment. When the Rumble had the dirtzsheetsz rumors confirmed, the hate was solidified.

That Roman is massively popular at house shows gets dismissed here because people here don't go to house shows, consider the fans who attend to be mark ass marks, and they don't count because it's not the real crowds like on TV. Then when the crowd on TV isn't in line with what they think, it's a "bad city" or a "mark city" or some other shit. It's some sad shit.



The Kane/Show bit tossing out everyone else was actually perfect, but of course the internet hates it because they hate Kane/Show and loved who they tossed out. Kane/Show tag-teaming should be able to destroy everyone. They're giants. They should be able to ragdoll toss people out. The only way Reigns or anyone should beat them 1-on-2 is if they fight each other and lose focus.

You're supposed to hate what happened. That's the point. They were heels, bro. The problem is you move beyond hating it as a fan to "well it's objectively bad storytelling", which is false, and which is a problem with fans today I don't want to rant about again.

Truth.

They haven't helped Reigns by booking him with bad opponents, and applying the same cookie cutter formula to all of their top babyfaces (everyone has to be able to cut a 20 minute promo? WHY? I just want to watch Bryan and Reigns cut a 2-3 minute promo, and beat the hell out of people. Cena can cut 15 min promos. Great. Let him do that. Not everyone needs to be booked the same exact way.)

The new way to be heel is really to be heel on a meta level. It's kind of messed up; it's like there's a new level of kayfabe that must be held to in order to get consistent heel heat.

 

[British Monsoon]

Roman, Rollins, and Ambrose were massively popular in the Shield. They were massively popular when the Shield split. Big reactions.

Roman was getting de-facto pops because of how over The Shield were, but doubt started to set in because he was exposed without Dean & Seth to cover for his deficiencies. But sure, attribute that to "teh sheetz" if you like.

*edit, also, you aren't giving people enough credit - they didn't need some website to tell them Roman was being positioned as the next guy, it was as clear as day that he was being given the Cena treatment.

That Roman is massively popular at house shows gets dismissed here because people here don't go to house shows, consider the fans who attend to be mark ass marks, and they don't count because it's not the real crowds like on TV. Then when the crowd on TV isn't in line with what they think, it's a "bad city" or a "mark city" or some other shit. It's some sad shit.

It's some sad shit to see someone so egregiously generalise everyone's opinions here. WWE dismiss the negative reactions Roman gets, continually pointing to how over he is at house shows, while using that to ignore the fundamental and undeniable disconnect between sections of their precious WWE Universe. It IS a problem, one they choose to ignore.

You're supposed to hate what happened. That's the point. They were heels, bro. The problem is you move beyond hating it as a fan to "well it's objectively bad storytelling", which is false, and which is a problem with fans today I don't want to rant about again.

A story is only as good as its cast of characters and Kane & Big Show are entirely fucking shit. Entirely. There are few wrestlers working today who I care less to see in the ring and that was the most anti-climactic ending to a Royal Rumble in recent memory. It was shit, there's no defending it as far as I'm concerned.

Bryan's dumb as fuck.

Pretty sure he didn't intend to land on his neck. He's not Naito. Or Ziggler.

 

[Plywood]

Vince did him a solid by not pulling the trigger on that match.

Exactly, he's extending his career allowing for mutual success and a chance at raising a family.

 

[RP912]

No gimmick Fridays are the best Fridays even though I put the "real ass" in RP912.

 

[cdViking]

Roman was getting de-facto pops because of how over The Shield were, but doubt started to set in because he was exposed without Dean & Seth to cover for his deficiencies. But sure, attribute that to "teh sheetz" if you like.



It's some sad shit to see someone so egregiously generalise everyone's opinions here. WWE dismiss the negative reactions Roman gets, continually pointing to how over he is at house shows, while using that to ignore the fundamental and undeniable disconnect between sections of their precious WWE Universe. It IS a problem, one they choose to ignore.



A story is only as good as its cast of characters and Kane & Big Show are entirely fucking shit. Entirely. There are few wrestlers working today who I care less to see in the ring and that was the most anti-climactic ending to a Royal Rumble in recent memory. It was shit, there's no defending it as far as I'm concerned.



Pretty sure he didn't intend to land on his neck. He's not Naito. Or Ziggler.

Cognitive dissonance on one end doesn't mean it isn't possible on the other; you're deluding yourself if you think Reigns is completely not over. I don't disagree with your assessment of the quality of the product, but just because the product is often dogshit, doesn't mean everything fits the popular narrative of "what's wrong with the WWE".

And this thread is almost entirely full of people who do nothing but shit on stuff the WWE does on its main brand. The universe of opinion here isn't so large that you can't draw opinions from it.

 

[XenoRaven]

It wasn't "up until the Rumble" and it wasn't "Bryan only". If you want to quibble with Jericho's statements at that granular a level, have at it.

Roman, Rollins, and Ambrose were massively popular in the Shield. They were massively popular when the Shield split. Big reactions.

Then The Dirtsheetz (sigh) started leaking "Reigns to win title at WM 31?" and later "Reigns v. Lesnar for title at WM31?". When that happened, it became a "guarantee" to (insert your preferred terminology for smarks) that Reigns was Wrestlemania main-event bound. That's when those who had liked Reigns turned on him: he was getting the spot that their absolute favorites (Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler) weren't going to get. Hate was on from that moment. When the Rumble had the dirtzsheetsz rumors confirmed, the hate was solidified.

That Roman is massively popular at house shows gets dismissed here because people here don't go to house shows, consider the fans who attend to be mark ass marks, and they don't count because it's not the real crowds like on TV. Then when the crowd on TV isn't in line with what they think, it's a "bad city" or a "mark city" or some other shit. It's some sad shit.



The Kane/Show bit tossing out everyone else was actually perfect, but of course the internet hates it because they hate Kane/Show and loved who they tossed out. Kane/Show tag-teaming should be able to destroy everyone. They're giants. They should be able to ragdoll toss people out. The only way Reigns or anyone should beat them 1-on-2 is if they fight each other and lose focus.

You're supposed to hate what happened. That's the point. They were heels, bro. The problem is you move beyond hating it as a fan to "well it's objectively bad storytelling", which is false, and which is a problem with fans today I don't want to rant about again.

No one needed "dirtsheetz" to see where they were going with Reigns. We saw where they were going when he would do tag matches with the Shield and Ambrose and Rollins would get their ass kicked until they could hot tag Reigns. Reigns does his four moves or whatever and wins the match.

This isn't about Reigns. This is about their ridiculous superman fairy tale booking. We're in the midst of over a decade of Cena superman pushes and now we get to look forward to a new decade of the same exact thing with a different and less talented coat of paint. Forgive me for not being excited.

It's that same mindset that has people up in arms about Kane and Show clearing the ring. I don't have a problem with heels eliminating babyfaces. But why are heels that are a few years away from retirement making all your up and coming stars look like chumps? Why aren't Rusev, Bray, Harper, and Barrett looking dominant instead of Big Show and Kane? Why is it that the only time Bray gets to look strong is so he can be fodder from some old dog at Mania? It's ass backwards.

I'm sure people constantly complaining about a guy you like gets tiresome. But let's not pretend the people complaining are just these fickle assholes that will boo anyone that the WWE pushes. It's completely disingenuous.

 

[cdViking]

Also, I'm super excited with how they booked the gauntlet match on Smackdown. Real-ass submission expert Bryan returns. He's getting his physique back, his kicks are making real impact, and shocking that his matches are better when he's fighting the best wrestlers on the roster.

 

[British Monsoon]

Cognitive dissonance on one end doesn't mean it isn't possible on the other; you're deluding yourself if you think Reigns is completely not over.

I agree, but I also didn't say that Roman's entirely not over. He may not be over with ME or a large number of WrassleGAF users, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to think those opinions are indicative of the audience as a whole. That's my point, it's a portion of the audience and the reason why Roman's crazy over in one town and booed in the next. Ever since Cena they've been happy to have a divisive face of the company and, hey, perhaps they're right to - most of the complainers will continue to give Vince their cash & attention, even if they despise the direction of the product and the guy who's on top. Doesn't mean it doesn't stink, though.

 

[Fox318]

If they wanted Reigns to win the rumble they should of not brought Bryan back until after the Rumble.

Plus with Reigns it was to fast and it killed his chance of organically getting over. He should of been fighting Rusev for the US title instead of Brock at Wrestlemania.

if they wanted Reigns to be over he should have won the rumble as a surprise.

And they never should have done those PPV and NXT interview promos

 

[dr3upmushroom]

I agree, but I also didn't say that Roman's entirely not over. He may not be over with ME or a large number of WrassleGAF users, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to think those opinions are indicative of the audience as a whole. That's my point, it's a portion of the audience and the reason why Roman's crazy over in one town and booed in the next. Ever since Cena they've been happy to have a divisive face of the company and, hey, perhaps they're right to - most of the complainers will continue to give Vince their cash & attention, even if they despise the direction of the product and the guy who's on top. Doesn't mean it doesn't stink, though.

As a returning fan since Royal Rumble, I'm probably going to stop watching after Mania if the outcome is lame. Only this time I'll have alternatives that I'm now aware of instead of going cold turkey.

 

[Cagey]

I'm sure people constantly complaining about a guy you like gets tiresome. But let's not pretend the people complaining are just these fickle assholes that will boo anyone that the WWE pushes. It's completely disingenuous.

Nah, it's the fan perspective on how to watch wrestling and how that motivates people's complaints or likes I find tiring. I'll just rant below and then drop it after.

I agree, but I also didn't say that Roman's entirely not over. He may not be over with ME or a large number of WrassleGAF users, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to think those opinions are indicative of the audience as a whole. That's my point, it's a portion of the audience and the reason why Roman's crazy over in one town and booed in the next. Ever since Cena they've been happy to have a divisive face of the company and, hey, perhaps they're right to - most of the complainers will continue to give Vince their cash & attention, even if they despise the direction of the product and the guy who's on top. Doesn't mean it doesn't stink, though.

I'd rather the crowds not split on the company's top heroes, but the reality is the only way to avoid that is to cater solely to that segment of fans who boo Cena/Reigns. The NXT live crowds. The smarks. Whatever. Pick your term.

Why? Because they/us/we are the ones decide to cheer and boo people based on how we perceive their talent level, work rate, promo, etc. Basically everything independent of how the character is positioned as good or bad in the scripted story presented by WWE.

We are the problem. The kid who cheers Cena, boos Rollins, cheers Reigns, boos Rusev, cheers Bryan, boos Wyatt is right. Me singing "John Cena suuuucks" at a RAW taping is wrong. Why? Cena is the hero, the face, the good guy. I'm deciding to ignore that because I dislike John Cena the character or performer, despite knowing how WWE frames Cena in stories and how he's going nowhere.

WWE has decided that, rather than let a small portion of their audience control everything they do, they'll work around the smark reactions. Sometimes they will sync up with the story (Bryan), sometimes they're at odds with the story (Cena).

I'd rather WWE not cater to these segments exclusively because fuck if I trust their tastes when they diverge with my own.

 

[RP912]

I wonder what would have happened if Bryne won the Rumble and headlined Wrestlemania 31...


Would it even matter that Bryan vs Lesnar was actually happening, if Bryan came back after a almost career ending injury, or if he's truly over?

Honestly...maybe VInce was right with booking of Bryne. Lets face it, dude was a good midcarder and made that WHC worth something. I hope if he wins the IC belt that the magic comes back because in my eye...

AJ Styles>>>>>>>>>>>Daniel Bryan.

I'm just saying...his late TNA run and current NJPW run made me a instant fan when I was on the fence of him and preferred wrestlers like CM Punk/Bryne.

 

[Raw64life]

Bryan's dumb as fuck.

I'm surprised the E keep letting them do a head droppy move like that

 

[somedevil]

I'm surprised the E keep letting them do a head droppy move like that

Yep that is the 2nd time this has happened. They tried it on Raw before and he was dropped on his head again. Someone should just tell harper and bryan don't do that move again.

 

[Sid]

The Road is Jericho is a nice DVD IMO

 

[British Monsoon]

I'd rather the crowds not split on the company's top heroes, but the reality is the only way to avoid that is to cater solely to that segment of fans who boo Cena/Reigns. The NXT live crowds. The smarks. Whatever. Pick your term.

The best way to avoid it is to properly, organically build a character until they're over with the vast majority of the audience and THEN pull the trigger. They've done it before, successfully disguising the negatives and accentuating the positives, why can't they do it now? Because they're too hasty and, ultimately, it doesn't matter, because they know the audience will still be here come what may.

Why? Because they/us/we are the ones decide to cheer and boo people based on how we perceive their talent level, work rate, promo, etc. Basically everything independent of how the character is positioned as good or bad in the scripted story presented by WWE.

We are the problem. The kid who cheers Cena, boos Rollins, cheers Reigns, boos Rusev, cheers Bryan, boos Wyatt is right. Me singing "John Cena suuuucks" at a RAW taping is wrong. Why? Cena is the hero, the face, the good guy. I'm deciding to ignore that because I dislike John Cena the character or performer, despite knowing how WWE frames Cena in stories and how he's going nowhere.

I'm of the opinion that, when the cast of characters you are using are able to excel with the material given to them, the audience will respond in the correct manner. It's the fault of the material, the presentation of the product and how the characters are utilised that causes disconnect between how WWE want the audience to react and how they do act.

Why are so many of the heels so popular with certain subsets of the audience? Because they're the most compellingly drawn characters on the roster, whereas the good guys are as paint-by-numbers as possible. And there's that disconnect again, because in spite of having an audience that spans the ages, the product is aimed firmly at younger viewers. And it works for them, that's great, but it's always going to leave a section dissatisfied unless they figure out a way to present the hero in a good enough light that he is over with the vast majority. And that takes the sort of clever booking that seems nigh on impossible in this day and age.

 

[scabro]

Exactly, he's extending his career allowing for mutual success and a chance at raising a family.

Its remarkable how little a performer's well being is considered as long as it contributes to your entertainment. How could you live with yourself your hijacking led to brie becoming a widow? Brock is a dangerous guy.

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

so with smackdown gone on friday's how will I get my fill of The Product tonight!?

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Luke Harper is dangerous in the ring. Another reason why Rowan is better.



I think the CM Punk interview played a part in the continued push of Reigns. I can see the "gotta make Roman look strong" irking Vince.

 

[slightconfuse]

If they wanted reigns,to get over they should,have had himnfued,with rusev,before he became cena food.

Remember how over swagger was last year

 

[iMax]

Why aren't we getting a Miz vs. Mizdow match?

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

We are the problem. The kid who cheers Cena, boos Rollins, cheers Reigns, boos Rusev, cheers Bryan, boos Wyatt is right. Me singing "John Cena suuuucks" at a RAW taping is wrong. Why? Cena is the hero, the face, the good guy. I'm deciding to ignore that because I dislike John Cena the character or performer, despite knowing how WWE frames Cena in stories and how he's going nowhere.

WWE has decided that, rather than let a small portion of their audience control everything they do, they'll work around the smark reactions. Sometimes they will sync up with the story (Bryan), sometimes they're at odds with the story (Cena).

I'd rather WWE not cater to these segments exclusively because fuck if I trust their tastes when they diverge with my own.

Confused whether or not this is a no gimmick post or a gimmick in the face of no gimmick friday post.

These hero characters get a cold reaction because they are boring, mang 8)

As a platform for greater storytelling, the reach of WWE's efforts far exceed their grasp. There is plenty of room for writing material outside of "this guy bad this guy good" and the company doesn't seem too interested in that.

Waiting to see how mania plays out but I believe they are completely squandering their biggest talent (Brock), I don't even care who he's against but the build has been b-b-boring.

 

[Angry Grimace]

No one needed "dirtsheetz" to see where they were going with Reigns. We saw where they were going when he would do tag matches with the Shield and Ambrose and Rollins would get their ass kicked until they could hot tag Reigns. Reigns does his four moves or whatever and wins the match.

This isn't about Reigns. This is about their ridiculous superman fairy tale booking. We're in the midst of over a decade of Cena superman pushes and now we get to look forward to a new decade of the same exact thing with a different and less talented coat of paint. Forgive me for not being excited.

It's that same mindset that has people up in arms about Kane and Show clearing the ring. I don't have a problem with heels eliminating babyfaces. But why are heels that are a few years away from retirement making all your up and coming stars look like chumps? Why aren't Rusev, Bray, Harper, and Barrett looking dominant instead of Big Show and Kane? Why is it that the only time Bray gets to look strong is so he can be fodder from some old dog at Mania? It's ass backwards.

I'm sure people constantly complaining about a guy you like gets tiresome. But let's not pretend the people complaining are just these fickle assholes that will boo anyone that the WWE pushes. It's completely disingenuous.

Yeah, they were just randomly booing Reigns after Bryan came back up to the Rumble because they were psychic (even though Reigns was basically doing nothing at that point since he had also just come back from an injury.)

I mean, the threads are still there. Nobody was saying that stuff, they liked the Shield and everyone in it. Its revisionist history - it absolutely was the dirtsheet reports that got people going on and on about it.

 

[UberTag]

That Roman is massively popular at house shows gets dismissed here because people here don't go to house shows, consider the fans who attend to be mark ass marks, and they don't count because it's not the real crowds like on TV.

I have to jump at this comment because if people feel that "house shows don't count" they're deluding themselves. Frankly, house shows are the only watchable main roster WWE product because they're largely devoid of Vince McMahon interference and, for all intents and purposes, are grassroots WWE at its absolute purest. How the hell could you not like house shows?

 

[XenoRaven]

Nah, it's the fan perspective on how to watch wrestling and how that motivates people's complaints or likes I find tiring. I'll just rant below and then drop it after.



I'd rather the crowds not split on the company's top heroes, but the reality is the only way to avoid that is to cater solely to that segment of fans who boo Cena/Reigns. The NXT live crowds. The smarks. Whatever. Pick your term.

Why? Because they/us/we are the ones decide to cheer and boo people based on how we perceive their talent level, work rate, promo, etc. Basically everything independent of how the character is positioned as good or bad in the scripted story presented by WWE.

We are the problem. The kid who cheers Cena, boos Rollins, cheers Reigns, boos Rusev, cheers Bryan, boos Wyatt is right. Me singing "John Cena suuuucks" at a RAW taping is wrong. Why? Cena is the hero, the face, the good guy. I'm deciding to ignore that because I dislike John Cena the character or performer, despite knowing how WWE frames Cena in stories and how he's going nowhere.

WWE has decided that, rather than let a small portion of their audience control everything they do, they'll work around the smark reactions. Sometimes they will sync up with the story (Bryan), sometimes they're at odds with the story (Cena).

I'd rather WWE not cater to these segments exclusively because fuck if I trust their tastes when they diverge with my own.

That would make things easier I guess, but I only really care about who is actually entertaining and interesting. It's pretty much always been that way. Even as a kid, I liked Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramon, Bam Bam Bigelow, Earthquake, and Yokozuna, who were all heels at one point. The only faces I liked were Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, and Tatanka (for some reason).

It makes me think about this one time Heyman was on Stone Cold's podcast, and he talked about how NWA was a "heel" promotion and WWE is a "face" promotion. This basically means that in NWA the heels would always dominate and spend the most time with the belt. This would make the actual faces more sympathetic and easier to cheer for, while making the heels easier to hate. The WWE is the opposite. I wouldn't say it's as simple as changing the WWE formula to allow heels to dominate more would solve their problems. But I'd like to see what it would do for crowd reactions.

 

[Thorakai]

Why aren't we getting a Miz vs. Mizdow match?

Goldust vs Stardust loss is the bigger tragedy. Cody was putting some good work in his promos during the feud.

 

[Ithil]

Yeah, they were just randomly booing Reigns after Bryan came back up to the Rumble because they were psychic (even though Reigns was basically doing nothing at that point since he had also just come back from an injury.)

I mean, the threads are still there. Nobody was saying that stuff, they liked the Shield and everyone in it. Its revisionist history - it absolutely was the dirtsheet reports that got people going on and on about it.

People started getting tired of Reigns in late 2013 to early 2014, when he started getting records and endless wins heaped on him at the expense of Ambrose and Rollins (Rumble record, Survivor Series record, suddenly calling him the "leader" of the Shield, etc). This only continued post breakup of the Shield.

No one needed a dirtsheet to see what they were doing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

People started getting tired of Reigns in late 2013 to early 2014, when he started getting records and endless wins heaped on him at the expense of Ambrose and Rollins (Rumble record, Survivor Series record, suddenly calling him the "leader" of the Shield, etc). This only continued post breakup of the Shield.

No one needed a dirtsheet to see what they were doing.

So if I go back to that thread, I'm gonna see you saying that, right?

 

[Cagey]

I'm of the opinion that, when the cast of characters you are using are able to excel with the material given to them, the audience will respond in the correct manner. It's the fault of the material, the presentation of the product and how the characters are utilised that causes disconnect between how WWE want the audience to react and how they do act.

Why are so many of the heels so popular with certain subsets of the audience? Because they're the most compellingly drawn characters on the roster, whereas the good guys are as paint-by-numbers as possible. And there's that disconnect again, because in spite of having an audience that spans the ages, the product is aimed firmly at younger viewers. And it works for them, that's great, but it's always going to leave a section dissatisfied unless they figure out a way to present the hero in a good enough light that he is over with the vast majority. And that takes the sort of clever booking that seems nigh on impossible in this day and age.

You're a more optimistic man about people than I am, Boots. I don't think the heels being more compelling characters (which is true at times, false at others) is what triggers sections of the audience cheering them on. I think it's nothing more than anti-hero worship. Bad News Barrett as a heel is just a generic bad guy with generic bad guy thoughts and generic bad guy actions. He's popular because of factors independent of the story or how it's written.

I'm guilty as charged -- Rusev and Lesnar are two of my absolute favorites to watch on WWE television right now, Owens in NXT, and when he was Steen in ROH. Those characters aren't more compelling than the heroes opposed to them based on writing or storytelling, they're more compelling because I prefer monsters. The writing for them is remedial-level basic.

Confused whether or not this is a no gimmick post or a gimmick in the face of no gimmick friday post.

I'm always Real Ass KG, friend, though writing "friend" at the end of that otherwise real ass sentence is gimmicky.

 

[scabro]

You're a more optimistic man about people than I am, Boots. I don't think the heels being more compelling characters (which is true at times, false at others) is what triggers sections of the audience cheering them on. I think it's nothing more than anti-hero worship.

I'm guilty as charged -- Rusev and Lesnar are two of my absolute favorites to watch on WWE television, Owens in NXT, and when he was Steen in ROH. Those characters aren't more compelling than the heroes opposed to them based on writing or storytelling, they're more compelling because I prefer monsters. The writing for them is remedial-level basic.



I'm always Real Ass KG, friend, though writing "friend" at the end of that otherwise real ass sentence is gimmicky.

"friend" isn't and was never a gimmick, friend

 

[Aiii]

I'd rather the crowds not split on the company's top heroes, but the reality is the only way to avoid that is to cater solely to that segment of fans who boo Cena/Reigns. The NXT live crowds. The smarks. Whatever. Pick your term.

Last time they picked who the "hardcore fans" or "the IWC" or whatever BS term people want to put on >50% of their Raw and PPV attending crowd as their top babyface going into Mania, they had tens of thousands of people YES-chanting to close out the show. Nobody was booing.

You see, when you push a guy that's actually over with all of the crowd, rather than just a fraction, you don't actually lose anything. You still get merch sales, you still get attendance, you still get viewership AND you get a product that's enjoyable to the entire crowd.

It's a win-win-win situation. No need to make concessions, to work the crowd, to fly in The Rock, to have tons of people put over your guy. Shit just happens automatically.

 

[Vylash]

you're doing good work, Cagey

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Why aren't we getting a Miz vs. Mizdow match?

Goldust vs Stardust loss is the bigger tragedy. Cody was putting some good work in his promos during the feud.

Yup, two of the best long term bookings they have going and... no big Wrestlemania pay off.

 

[Heel]

I have to agree with Cagey. Just a bunch of contrarian smarks who think they're a part of the show trying to get themselves over at any opportunity.

Example: Buying tickets front row, hard camera side and dressing up as dead wrestlers.

Best way to get someone over? Pretend you don't want them to get over, apparently.

 

[klonere]

I don't get that they have to actively avoid pandering to the audience that pays $2,000 plus for tickets

Spoiler

its because they'll buy the tickets anyway right?

Yup, two of the best long term bookings they have going and... no big Wrestlemania pay off.

Yup this is the worst thing. Miz and Mizdow is the one consistent storyline over the last couple of months and they are going to get a spot during the stupid battle royale

 

[Kaladin]

Loved the IC Title gauntlet on Smackdown this week. The rest of the show is meh, but that's a match to see. Probably the third best match I saw this week behind Breeze vs Kalisto on NXT and the casket match on Lucha Underground.

 

[UberTag]

I don't get that they have to actively avoid pandering to the audience that pays $2,000 plus for tickets

Spoiler

its because they'll buy the tickets anyway right?

Winner winner chicken dinner. The $2,000/seat ticket purchasers are suckers who will swallow and spend and bitch and spend and whine and spend some more. They should be abused like the masochistic abused whales that they are and NEVER pandered to. (Except by Triple H who will pander to them non-stop in his bid to get NXT over nationwide and crush the indy promotions.)

It's the casual fans who should be catered to. That and the whimsy of Vince McMahon's sense of humor. What a delightful old man he is!

 

[Angry Grimace]

Last time they picked who the "hardcore fans" or "the IWC" or whatever BS term people want to put on >50% of their Raw and PPV attending crowd as their top babyface going into Mania, they had tens of thousands of people YES-chanting to close out the show. Nobody was booing.

You see, when you push a guy that's actually over with all of the crowd, rather than just a fraction, you don't actually lose anything. You still get merch sales, you still get attendance, you still get viewership AND you get a product that's enjoyable to the entire crowd.

It's a win-win-win situation. No need to make concessions, to work the crowd, to fly in The Rock, to have tons of people put over your guy. Shit just happens automatically.

Doing what the crowd wants at all times doesn't seem like a viable business strategy in the long term.

 

[avengers23]

so with smackdown gone on friday's how will I get my fill of The Product tonight!?

NJPW on AXS tonight has Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi for the IWGP IC championship from Wrestle Kingdom 8.

 

[Ithil]

Doing what the crowd wants at all times doesn't seem like a viable business strategy in the long term.

Never doing it doesn't either. Or actively trying to do the opposite.

Like them insulting people who buy the PPVs, for not having the Network. Insulting people who pay more for your PPV is retarded.

 

[British Monsoon]

Just a bunch of contrarian smarks who think they're a part of the show

And who's fault is that? 15 years ago WWE weren't insisting that their audience members were all unique, special little snowflakes who's opinions mattered and neither were they so concerned with encouraging their crowds to "get involved" on social media, nor did they care to engender a greater sense of importance and unity with their customers by referring to them as a "Universe" and applauding them when they "show their passion" by expressing themselves, even when that expression goes entirely off script.

 

[Macho Madness]

Wow, I thought Cagey just had different opinions than I did before. But now I realize he's just a fucking moron.

 

[El Topo]

Doing what the crowd wants at all times doesn't seem like a viable business strategy in the long term.

You don't need to do what the crowd wants, but you need to treat them with the fans with the proper respect and give them something they can enjoy. That requires decent storytelling ability and planning.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Never doing it doesn't either. Or actively trying to do the opposite.

Like them insulting people who buy the PPVs, for not having the Network. Insulting people who pay more for your PPV is retarded.

Ironically, the most vocal wrestling fans don't even know what they like. They just know they should be given whatever they want whenever they want at all times.

And let's be honest: if someone's paying more for these random PPVs, they probably don't care if they get personally insulted. They'll buy it anyways.

 

[XenoRaven]

Wow, I thought Cagey just had different opinions than I did before. But now I realize he's just a fucking moron.

I don't think anything he said was moronic.

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

Wow, I thought Cagey just had different opinions than I did before. But now I realize he's just a fucking moron.

gettin' awfully HnI for your return, friend~

 

[scabro]

Winner winner chicken dinner. The $2,000/seat ticket purchasers are suckers who will swallow and spend and bitch and spend and whine and spend some more. They should be abused like the masochistic abused whales that they are and NEVER pandered to. (Except by Triple H who will pander to them non-stop in his bid to get NXT over nationwide and crush the indy promotions.)

It's the casual fans who should be catered to. That and the whimsy of Vince McMahon's sense of humor. What a delightful old man he is!

the casual fan should absolutely be catered to.

if your business isn't growing, its dying.

in fact you could certainly argue that the wwe caters to the hardcore audience too much. its undeniable that what they did with bryan post rumble only served to hurt everyone involved. and that was based off of trying to appease individuals who only wanted to get themselves and their sense of influence over in face of the show presented to them.

i guess, in the end, the wwe only has themselves to blame. all they can do now is finally get fully behind Reigns.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yup, two of the best long term bookings they have going and... no big Wrestlemania pay off.

So dumb. Didn't we get a fucking Jericho vs. Fandango singles match a few years ago? How is Miz vs. Mizdow not deserving of a singles match at Mania?

 

[Macho Madness]

Fucking moron was harsh.

But goddamn, talk about staring at a green light and trying to tell everyone it's red.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So dumb. Didn't we get a fucking Jericho vs. Fandango singles match a few years ago? How is Miz vs. Mizdow not deserving of a singles match at Mania?

No, no, no see its gonna be the last part of the Andre rumble......=(