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March Wrasslin' |OT| The NXT Era Has ArRIVED

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T

tm24

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
It's moments like this that make you think they really missed the boat with Big Show in the WWE. He sort of had that Giant thing going as The Giant in WCW, but in WWF/WWE he was just a big dummy. Now everyone hates him. Poor Big Show :(
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Was watching the legends of wrestling roundtable on giants last night, and slaughter brings up a really good point. Both TV and the internet have ruined giants, because they're no longer a special attraction. You see them all the time. They're just really big wrestlers. You can't keep up that mystique
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
DMczaf said:
WWE needs to make up their mind about WM3 lore. Feels like every week they change their mind on which match was the only match people talked about leaving the arena, Steamboat/Savage or Andre/Hogan.
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It's Andre/Hogan. Not even fucking close.

Ithil said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctBa0_4H0g8

Zack Ryder's Last Rezort continues. I have no idea where he's going with this. He seems to care a lot, and all, but I don't see this translating to any kind of a push from WWE.
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I don't get him anymore.

I don't get why they stopped pushing him.

I don't get anything. I thought the objective was to sell shitty fucking shirts and accessories?
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
tm24 said:
Was watching the legends of wrestling roundtable on giants last night, and slaughter brings up a really good point. Both TV and the internet have ruined giants, because they're no longer a special attraction. You see them all the time. They're just really big wrestlers. You can't keep up that mystique
Click to expand...

I guess not, but then it's not as if WWF/WWE ever tried to book Big Show as a giant when he came in. They had him on TV all the time and after the brief feud with Austin, they didn't know what to do with Big Show.

I still like his debut at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, which seemed very 'super strength giantish' when I saw it Live at the time.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
I guess not, but then it's not as if WWF/WWE ever tried to book Big Show as a giant when he came in. They had him on TV all the time and after the brief feud with Austin, they didn't know what to do with Big Show.

I still like his debut at St. Valentine's Day Massacre, which seemed very 'super strength giantish' when I saw it Live at the time.
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Nah, if you book them right, and they have the charisma to back it up, you can still make a legit scary giant.

Look at Mark Henry. I was legit scared of keeping my air bills paid. He's not a "giant", but he carried himself like one.
 
M

Master Thespian

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
Jeff Jarrett's Jersey Jungle Gym Emporium Extravaganza Bonanza Tennessee State Fair Wrestling Show!



It's moments like this that make you think they really missed the boat with Big Show in the WWE. He sort of had that Giant thing going as The Giant in WCW, but in WWF/WWE he was just a big dummy. Now everyone hates him. Poor Big Show :(
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He was booked horribly. If he were treated like an attraction where he only had like 4-6 matches per year and lost only a few here and there, I think he'd be viewed on par with Andre since he was better in the ring and a better talker. Instead, they decided to treat him like just another guy going after the world title (or worse, the IC and US titles). They should have mostly kept him out of the title picture because he felt that the responsibilities of being a fighting champion were beneath him.
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
DMczaf said:
Nah, if you book them right, and they have the charisma to back it up, you can still make a legit scary giant.

Look at Mark Henry. I was legit scared of keeping my air bills paid.
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Yeah, this is a good point. Mark Henry booked as a hard as nails, zero fucks, ass kicker was awesome. How would you book a Big Show Giant? The same way?
 
S

strobogo

Banned
DMczaf said:
WWE needs to make up their mind about WM3 lore. Feels like every week they change their mind on which match was the only match people talked about leaving the arena, Steamboat/Savage or Andre/Hogan.
Click to expand...

I think it usually depends on what Vince and Hogan's relationship is at any given time.

Ithil said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctBa0_4H0g8

Zack Ryder's Last Rezort continues. I have no idea where he's going with this. He seems to care a lot, and all, but I don't see this translating to any kind of a push from WWE.
Click to expand...

He still looks and sounds like a goober and isn't good at wrestling. That did nothing to make me want to see him be successful. It just reminded me why he isn't. He went to the Vince Russo school of "pensive looks = real emotion".
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
i08bJIk1bY3Nr.gif
 
M

Master Thespian

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
Yeah, this is a good point. Mark Henry booked as a hard as nails, zero fucks, ass kicker was awesome. How would you book a Big Show Giant? The same way?
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The exact way Brock is booked with Heyman, but with more wins.

SLEEP
EAT
CHOKESLAM
REPEAT

I mean, that's what I would've done with him. It's too late now.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Mr. Luchador said:
Yeah, this is a good point. Mark Henry booked as a hard as nails, zero fucks, ass kicker was awesome. How would you book a Big Show Giant? The same way?
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That's the thing, I honestly don't think Big Show has the charisma to back up that push. Heyman tried it in ECW and I still didn't buy it. He still looked like a goofball trying to be hard.
 
D

DiscoJon

Banned
Ithil said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctBa0_4H0g8

Zack Ryder's Last Rezort continues. I have no idea where he's going with this. He seems to care a lot, and all, but I don't see this translating to any kind of a push from WWE.
Click to expand...
I just watched this and it got me thinking after he said he was going to be "future WWE World Heavyweight Champion."

How bad is the title picture right now? Seriously. We've got 4 dudes who are in the championship "tier" for the forseeable future: Orton, Batista, Cena and (maybe) Bryan. That's it. There's no one else that comes to mind. Nobody. Punk is gone, Lesnar is hardly around, Taker's career is now a single match a year. Kane? Henry? Big Show? C'mon. It's a weird time for sure.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
DMczaf said:
That's the thing, I honestly don't think Big Show has the charisma to back up that push. Heyman tried it in ECW and I still didn't buy it. He still looked like a goofball trying to be hard.
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Wasn't he in a movie where is was in a diaper or something?

Wasn't he in a wrestling ring where he was in a diaper or something?

...maybe give him a edgy animated series. Choke slam Scooby-Doo straight to hell.
 
P

Penguin

Member
tm24 said:
Was watching the legends of wrestling roundtable on giants last night, and slaughter brings up a really good point. Both TV and the internet have ruined giants, because they're no longer a special attraction. You see them all the time. They're just really big wrestlers. You can't keep up that mystique
Click to expand...

Between this and CM Punk on The Talking Dead, I really do think the WWE should take looking into off-seasons/breaks for the wrestlers.

One of the reasons, returning wrestlers get such big pops is because its something fresh and different if you haven't seen them in 2-3 months. They get to rest their bodies and perhaps think of where they need to adapt and change.

And really only need all the roster around between Royal Rumble and WrestleMania (and even that isn't true)
 
L

lovely ladies

Member
Penguin said:
Between this and CM Punk on The Talking Dead, I really do think the WWE should take looking into off-seasons/breaks for the wrestlers.

One of the reasons, returning wrestlers get such big pops is because its something fresh and different if you haven't seen them in 2-3 months. They get to rest their bodies and perhaps think of where they need to adapt and change.

And really only need all the roster around between Royal Rumble and WrestleMania (and even that isn't true)
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Wrestlers' offseason should be that they do a stint on Total Divas.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Penguin said:
Between this and CM Punk on The Talking Dead, I really do think the WWE should take looking into off-seasons/breaks for the wrestlers.

One of the reasons, returning wrestlers get such big pops is because its something fresh and different if you haven't seen them in 2-3 months. They get to rest their bodies and perhaps think of where they need to adapt and change.

And really only need all the roster around between Royal Rumble and WrestleMania (and even that isn't true)
Click to expand...

That doesn't apply any longer. Jericho in the Rumble the other year was probably the last great genuine surprise you may get for a very long time.

WWE wants ratings. They are going to tell you when/where someone is showing up if they are notable. No more glass breaking.

In terms of getting breaks? They have been doing a much better job with them. It's still a traveling circus, and will be for some time.
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
Penguin said:
Between this and CM Punk on The Talking Dead, I really do think the WWE should take looking into off-seasons/breaks for the wrestlers.

One of the reasons, returning wrestlers get such big pops is because its something fresh and different if you haven't seen them in 2-3 months. They get to rest their bodies and perhaps think of where they need to adapt and change.

And really only need all the roster around between Royal Rumble and WrestleMania (and even that isn't true)
Click to expand...

Oh god, yes. Also for the creative. 3 months break, work out at least a rough draft of an actual good storyline for the season, let people rest/train/learn-new-moves. Do a light house show tour if you are that starved for butts on the seats.

Whenever I see this topic on comments sessions around the world, people are generally in favor of it. I don't think any wrestling fan would be upset with something that is so beneficial to the talent.
 
M

Master Thespian

Member
The problem with breaks is that guys like Cena fuck it up for everybody. It's hard enough to break into the main event as it is, but a guy like John Cena would probably never take a break since he has no life outside of wrestling. So everyone outside of the big name vets who have already started to break down physically would probably also have to refuse them as well.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Cena has nothing to do with other wrestlers not getting breaks. It has everything to do with that he makes the most sense at the top of your product and the WWE being creatively lazy for the better part of a decade.
 
M

Master Thespian

Member
Sanjuro said:
Cena has nothing to do with other wrestlers not getting breaks. It has everything to do with that he makes the most sense at the top of your product and the WWE being creatively lazy for the better part of a decade.
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You're missing the point. *If* WWE were to ever do breaks for talent, they would be optional. And no one who wanted to make a name for themselves would take a break with Cena refusing to take them himself.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
I don't like Ryder because he's ONLY a mark for Golden Era WWF to the point where he couldn't even name NWA/WCW/puro guys. Even when given the opportunity to watch stuff from outside of that period. You can't be a complete pro wrestler watching one territory where ring work wasn't even that emphasized.



I bet Zack Ryder really likes HTM, which means he would really like Michael Hayes if he had been watching NWA at the same time.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
strobogo said:
I don't like Ryder because he's ONLY a mark for Golden Era WWF to the point where he couldn't even name NWA/WCW/puro guys. Even when given the opportunity to watch stuff from outside of that period. You can't be a complete pro wrestler watching one territory where ring work wasn't even that emphasized.
Click to expand...

So, he has to care about things that nobody else cares about to be likable? Interesting.

Master Thespian said:
You're missing the point. *If* WWE were to ever do breaks for talent, they would be optional. And no one who wanted to make a name for themselves would take a break with Cena refusing to take them himself.
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That's why I don't think it makes sense really. Breaks are for the most part going to be based on injury.

You're not wrong. From a viewer who has watched the product in the various stages, they are much more flexible on the workload for these guys as much as they possibly can.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
I hate Shane Douglas promos. He does them all like he's quoting the thing he's saying. Baffles me that some people think he was good at promos.
 
D

DiscoJon

Banned
strobogo said:
I don't like Ryder because he's ONLY a mark for Golden Era WWF to the point where he couldn't even name NWA/WCW/puro guys. Even when given the opportunity to watch stuff from outside of that period. You can't be a complete pro wrestler watching one territory where ring work wasn't even that emphasized.
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He did admit in the video that he's a nostalgic guy. Makes sense, he's a total 80's kid. Grew up in Long Island when the center of the WWF was Madison Square Garden. You think John Cena or Lesnar know anything about puro guys?

I teach band stuff, do you think I know everthing about musical instruments? Hell no. Kid comes up to me about a flute or a bassoon and I usually don't have a freaking clue.

I'm sure Ryder's aware of the stuff you mentioned, but who cares if he prefers Ultimate Warrior over Stan Hansen?
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Sanjuro said:
So, he has to care about things that nobody else cares about to be likable? Interesting.
Click to expand...


No, but I think to be good at any kind of entertainment profession, you need to be aware of other genres of what you're doing. A rock musician should listen to jazz or country or metal. A comedy director should watch dramas and monster movies. You need to see as many perspectives as possible. In the case of a wrestler, only watching one era/style means you're stuck doing one style against everyone and can't do anything else.


The guys who are considered the best are people who worked a bunch of territories with different styles and combined them into their own style. You can't really do that today, but you can watch tapes and familiarize yourself with something different. If someone is not only not going to do that, but make a point not to do that, I can't feel bad for them when they never improve in the ring and don't get pushed.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
I just realised that Big Show managed to make a return and WWE is still booking him strong.

I hope someone else beats the ever loving shit out of him. Clearly the 20 chair shots and several broken chairs weren't enough. This time, throw him into a volcano or something.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
FallingEdge said:
005newjapantakaakiwatanabe.jpg
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Good to see Watanabe on the cards, he should've been with ROH from the start of his learning excursion to the US - he's only had 8 or so matches since his year away began last November, whereas Hiromu Takahashi has had 33 matches since his excursion to Europe & Mexico started.

DiscoJon said:
You think John Cena or Lesnar know anything about puro guys?
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Lesnar at least knows what it's like to work the puroresu style and has faced some of the best guys in Japan - this actually ties in nicely to my above point; New Japan know that the best way for their young lions to get the experience they need to be great wrestlers is to send them out into the world so they can be exposed to as many different styles as possible. Similarly, there's a reason why guys like Bryan, Cesaro and Rollins are so damn awesome in the ring and it's because they have the experience that comes from plying their trade the world over.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
strobogo said:
No, but I think to be good at any kind of entertainment profession, you need to be aware of other genres of what you're doing. A rock musician should listen to jazz or country or metal. A comedy director should watch dramas and monster movies. You need to see as many perspectives as possible. In the case of a wrestler, only watching one era/style means you're stuck doing one style against everyone and can't do anything else.


The guys who are considered the best are people who worked a bunch of territories with different styles and combined them into their own style. You can't really do that today, but you can watch tapes and familiarize yourself with something different. If someone is not only not going to do that, but make a point not to do that, I can't feel bad for them when they never improve in the ring and don't get pushed.
Click to expand...

Sure. It's great that some people know more about their profession than others. However, you directly linked his likability to his knowledge to promotions who are in the minority with his audience. That has absolutely nothing to do with his character or perception.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Mr. Nobody said:
so i'm a horrible fan for not liking puro :(
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You're just normal. I don't even know what it is! When I was a kid, I used to get the magazines which would have some sections dedicated to other professions. Never saw the appeal.

If I wanted to see some no-name guys, I would go down the street to the Main Street Armory. They used to get WWE shows until they moved to the bigger venues. After that, we would get ECW or generic promotions (one that carted out Scott Hall wasted is one).

Vince only has a hard-on for one of our local small venues still.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Mr. Nobody said:
so i'm a horrible fan for not liking puro :(
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I've never seen any of it.

I did grow up watching NWA/WCW and that was because WWF wasn't on TV enough! So I needed more. I really did like it though. Great alternative.

I did some ECW watching too.

that's about it really.
 
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