PadWarrior
Member
You may not like it. It's really luck based, more so in this version it seems. Fun game but not to be taken seriously due to all the luck involved.
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Mario Kart 8 |OT2| I'm using tilt controls!
- Thread starter Roo
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You may not like it. It's really luck based, more so in this version it seems. Fun game but not to be taken seriously due to all the luck involved.
Saint Gregory
Member
If it were just luck the same people wouldn't win the races 90% of the time. While there's a certain amount or luck involved there's also a great deal of skill involved to overcome the many obstacles the game throws at you.
But anyone who found the earlier games unfair will be absolutely miserable with this game. It does almost nothing to help those who fall behind. In fact it feels like the game trolls you harder if you fall below 6th place.
blame space
Banned
The fairness level is extremely visceral
PadWarrior
Member
It's Mario Kart, it's always mostly luck. You either have good luck or bad luck. I've seen people go from first to the bottom in various races. It's just a game for fun since there are so many factors that are out of your hands. Even players on various Mario Kart forums talk about how so much luck is involved.
Davey Cakes
Member
I almost hate to say it but I agree. At times I'm finding myself wishing the game was even more unbalanced and weighted towards the back of the pack.
People gave MK Wii shit but I never felt absolutely hopeless in that game. Screw it, sometimes it was fun getting a bullet bill in 5th or 6th place and blowing through the front of the pack.
In this game? 12th place? Here's a single mushroom. 10th? Here's a banana. 8th place? What's that? There's no such thing. You were hit once by a shell early on and you also accidentally grazed a wall. You're never seeing better than 9th place, bud.
Notor!ousG
Member
Thanks for all the replies. Guess I won't be buying it then.
Davey Cakes
Member
Skill is obviously involved. That's why you see people getting first or second place consistently while having a golden Wii Wheel.
That said, I can't imagine the dedication it takes to get to that point.
That said, I can't imagine the dedication it takes to get to that point.
Replace blue shell with triple reds for more accuracy.
Davey Cakes
Member
I've gotten a Lucky 8 in 9th or 10th place only to NOT MOVE UP AT ALL.
It's so embarrassing. People who get ahead just stay ahead sometimes and you can't help it.
It's so embarrassing. People who get ahead just stay ahead sometimes and you can't help it.
Saint Gregory
Member
I don't want to sound like a jerk but that's mostly what people say to make themselves feel better about losing. I've been playing MK with the GAF community in some form or another since MKDS and it's easy to recognize skilled players who understand the game's mechanics.
Have I lost a ton of races due to a barrage of red shells knocking me from 2nd to last place? Sure I have but when I think back there was always some point in the races where I made a key mistake like hitting a wall or drifting offroad that allowed another racer to cut in front of me which put me in that position in the first place. No one who plays the game regularly would say the game is based on luck. If that were true random people would win every race but they don't most of the time.
PadWarrior
Member
Lol I'm trying to make myself feel better? Man it's a video game. I never take them serious. Mario kart will always be a luck based game compared to other multiplayer games. It's just a fun game. Some nights you have good luck some nights you don't.
Saint Gregory
Member
Pretty much. How many races have we had in 12 person rooms were everyone finished in the same places with little variation time and time again? Dozens? That's not luck.
On this luck part I'll just say from my experience in gaf races, if you can win a race then you have a decent chance of winning the next because starting at them front is a nice advantage. I've seen people win 3 or 4 in a row where they haven't really had to do much but as soon as they get an unlucky start then you can see these people who just went on a win streak battling in midfield. When everyone is around the same standard (let's be honest, MK isn't a game with greatest depth) then luck plays a bigger role.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Consistently lucky, obviously!
The really crazy thing that happens is when a room slowly cycles people in and out until you're left with like all of GAF's titans and realize that whatever place you come in during the first race, you can expect to see yourself and others in barring any wide variables in items during the race.
There was a specific time when on top of the guys I named, we had a few other unsung heroes in the races and no matter what I tried I couldn't break out past 4th-5th because everyone was just beasting. :lol
I actually think it's a bit easier if you start lower in the races (not dead last but close) since on top of getting more complimentary coins, you also get the advantage of picking your overtakes as folks load themselves up with the first items and either drag them or use them on someone ahead of themselves. There are times where I'll miss an item set and I'll just try to hang as far back as possible while everyone else gets theirs. On levels like Rainbow Road 64, Water Park, Shy Guy Falls and Bowser's Castle, this is a pretty easy strat to take advantage of and sneak into an early 3rd place.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
TBH, I don't get into rooms with you often enough. :lol
Saint Gregory
Member
Several of the people who are top tier in the MK8 community were top tier in MK7 as well and that's no coincidence. MK7 item system was considerably toned down compared to MK8, if not just because you could always stock an extra item for protection, and still the leaderboard was very consistent from race to race.
MK is a very well designed MP game. Easy to get into, tough to master and even tougher to dominate. I've honestly felt way more lucky with FPSs, they at least have aim assist
HypnoDarkrai
Member
I unlocked it at 93~ hours.
And i STILL haven't unlocked the Gold Glider. WTF.
now, 20 - 80 isn't true at all since the items you get or the ones that enemies throw at you play a very big role in the race. if you fall behind just because of that in the first lap of the race you won't probably ever reach the 3rd place again, even if you're the god of mario kart.
I wouldn't say it's all luck based, skill - knowing the road, the shortcuts etc. - does matter but so does the luck.
PadWarrior
Member
Game is still fun despite the luck involved. I think close to 100 hours of play time. I do wish I had more control over my situations but this game is a great way to unwind.
Most of it comes down to skill, maybe 75%. 15% comes down to luck. 10% comes down to kart combination.
It is easier to get a strong lead with some combinations over others.
waaaaaaait
who doesn't have a positive win record over Azure?
It is easier to get a strong lead with some combinations over others.
Probably mad because of our positive win record over him.
waaaaaaait
who doesn't have a positive win record over Azure?
Saint Gregory
Member
I can't even tell you how many times I've been in one of the final positions in the race, seen Merrick just ahead of me and thought that I would beat him only to see him finish 1st when the race was over. The dude is some kind of inside drift savant or something since he was never that good at MK7 :/
Not me I bet :'(Most of it comes down to skill, maybe 75%. 15% comes down to luck. 10% comes down to kart combination.
It is easier to get a strong lead with some combinations over others.
Probably mad because of our positive win record over him.
waaaaaaait
who doesn't have a positive win record over Azure?
Kart combo is a major factor. I pretty much know based on what I've chosen for the night how good or bad it will go. But aside from the horrible weight class imbalance the better kart combos usually require more skill to do well with.
PadWarrior
Member
Anyone unlock the gold glider? I wish I knew how any coins I had.
Actually, for me luck is probably bigger lol. I'm either really lucky or unlucky. Mostly really unlucky lol.
As shown here for those who missed it yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPoVYFXsJPQ
As shown here for those who missed it yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPoVYFXsJPQ
PadWarrior
Member
That's me in a nutshell. Even the few times when I won gaf races or came in the top half it's been good luck lol.
prag16
Banned
Within single races, I guess you could say that. Over the course of many races, that is extremely untrue.
As somebody said above, how do all the same people keep rising to the top more often than not if it's overall "mostly luck"?
The answer is it's not. There's still a high degree of skill involved.
I like this game's balance (for all it's faults) better than MK Wii. In MK Wii it was very possible to suck horribly, bounce off everything, then get a star and two bullet bills on the last lap and finish top 2. That will never EVER happen in this game. Likewise, good driving isn't punished as harshly in this game as in MK Wii (despite all the trips reds 2nd place can get). An average of one blue shell per race is a hall of a lot more fair than an average of more like three.
Saint Gregory
Member
I almost always only get coins in first except for this one race where I somehow got triple reds (I'm sure that was some kind of netcode error). I wish I knew what the secret is of staying in 1st while getting coins because I see people do it even with reds spawning behind them.
Ever since I switched to using the pro controller so I could use the GP to see the map and items I've been able to really appreciate how screwed up the item distribution is in this game.
This is all I've been trying to say. Everyone gets lucky here and there and gets an unlikely win, the game is designed that way to keep people playing while learning the mechanics, but you're not going to do well consistently without a high level of skill.
prag16
Banned
MK is a very well designed MP game. Easy to get into, tough to master and even tougher to dominate. I've honestly felt way more lucky with FPSs, they at least have aim assist
I honestly think MK8 is more skill based than Call of Duty. Why? In Call of Duty lag (or lack thereof) is king. Talent and skill is no match for a big 'ol lag shield.
I don't know...8 certainly has some lag shield moments.
Saint Gregory
Member
It wasn't as bad last night but yeah, the netcode issues are a struggle. There's a lot of good game under there though which is what keeps me coming back despite the problems.
prag16
Banned
Of course there are times when a shell should connect but it doesn't, etc. But lag influences 90% of encounters in a CoD type game. MK8 is not even remotely comparable from that standpoint.
PadWarrior
Member
Have you tried using a LAN adapter? I've been using for months now and I don't get too many issues.
Probably mad because of our positive win record over him.
waaaaaaait
who doesn't have a positive win record over Azure?
You try to be nice talking about folks and then they say these things...
You all have to admit that I keep it close during the races though.
Mario Kart Wii was really really awful a lot of the time I played it. I had never really bought into the whole "teh randoms" thing until I played a race in that game where I was hit with three blue shells, two lightnings, a POW and a Bullet Bill only to go through an item block and get the unlimited power of the Cloud in an actual race.
Saint Gregory
Member
They need to get patched to explode after the 2nd bounce. I'm tired of throwing one ahead of me down a straightaway only to watch it bounce like 7 times until I reach that point myself and get hit by it >_<
But statistically it's quite rare for that to happen. What enemies throw at you don't really matter in the end as only the blue shell and 3 red-shells are 90% unavoidable. You can counter most of the rest if you're first. It's also rare to only get 3 times in a row coins when in 1st place. The 20% of luck represent the chance of being hit by unavoidable items.
Man between spending my evenings catching up on E3 coverage a couple of weeks ago and Pushmo World since then, I've gone for like two weeks without playing any MK8. Gonna be so out of practice once I get back into the GAF rooms!
Also sign me up for the group that believes that skill plays a much larger role in race results than pure luck. Frankly I felt that way even about MKWii, where if you were a solid racer, most of the time the blue shell was the only thing that could ever really stop you from taking a lead and keeping it. Most other item-based shenanegans were blockable, avoidable, or could at least be easily mitigated (POW-block momentum conservation was a huge technique, not doing it definitely put you at a disadvantage). Knowing the courses and their shortcuts, having a solid vehicle build and a playstyle that takes advantage of it, having solid racing lines planned out so you know where you're going, and collecting coins all give you an edge. This is supported by what I feel like is a big increase in mushroom-related items given to folks in lower places, as it encourages you to know the boosting shortcuts and pick good spots to make your moves.
Granted, when the three people ahead of you also get mushrooms that can fall kind of moot, but everybody gets items, so what can you do.
Also sign me up for the group that believes that skill plays a much larger role in race results than pure luck. Frankly I felt that way even about MKWii, where if you were a solid racer, most of the time the blue shell was the only thing that could ever really stop you from taking a lead and keeping it. Most other item-based shenanegans were blockable, avoidable, or could at least be easily mitigated (POW-block momentum conservation was a huge technique, not doing it definitely put you at a disadvantage). Knowing the courses and their shortcuts, having a solid vehicle build and a playstyle that takes advantage of it, having solid racing lines planned out so you know where you're going, and collecting coins all give you an edge. This is supported by what I feel like is a big increase in mushroom-related items given to folks in lower places, as it encourages you to know the boosting shortcuts and pick good spots to make your moves.
Granted, when the three people ahead of you also get mushrooms that can fall kind of moot, but everybody gets items, so what can you do.
prag16
Banned
And those ricochet angles. What the fuck sometimes. And they seem to accelerate after the ricochet too at times. Lost count of how many times I've shot three ahead of me at an opponent, they squeak through inexplicably, then a few seconds later I get to where they're still wildly bouncing every which way and get taken out. -_-
Wii and 7 already taught me not to throw green shells....and occasionally bombs and bananas ahead of me if there were walls nearby. Some of the bounce angles I've seen are so absurd lol.
This is close, but I'm not so sure it's accurate to just lump skill and strategy together. Strategy is a highly overlooked part of the game (especially when it's so crazy chaotic in these GAF races). But there are times when you can avoid red shells through good driving and good use of obstacles, times when it's better to drag than to drop, times when it's better to shoot forward than backward. To me, skill has more to do with being able to drive the lines you want to drive, do the tricks where beneficial, draft when possible and maybe take the shortcuts you want to take. Strategy is everything else.
50% skill
20% luck
20% strategy
10% character/kart
I'd say at most it's 20% luck. There are definite times when the Mario Kart Gods will give you exactly what you need at just the right moment, or, more likely, give you a terrible terrible item that does you no good. But the best players can overcome that more often than not.