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Marvel Cinematic Universe |OT| Discussion on released and future projects (spoilers)

Listen here, if you are that worried about historical accuracy in a goddamned super hero movie that doesn't bother to....(Man out of his time refers to ideals, I don't see how race even came into question regarding those? He wasn't surprised Nick Fury was black)

no, man out of time refers to him literally being a man out of time. He was frozen in WWII and just woke up. Do you...know anything at all?

Then you could always address that head on, and make the guy a mask that doesn't show he's black, and boom now all of a sudden you got something interesting.

this was the story of the blue marvel. made a hero during the 1960s, wore a mask all the time until he got found out, and then there were riots and he was forced to quit.

You are the one being thick as hell, these guys can basically come up with everything that shits on historical accuracy, and you keep hanging on the issue of race. Well if they can come up with aliens and shit, then I'm sure they can come up with something that explains Captain America being black but nobody knowing then aside from a few. That keeps the character perfectly inline with "man out of place".

The point is that marvel has already gone out of it's way to NOT ignore the historical race issue, even as far back as the 1960s, because doing so is a REALLY SHITTY thing to do and is considered VERY offensive when it happens.
Look, it's clear that you're either completely clueless, or perhaps 12 years old so I'm going to choose to discontinue this line of conversation with you. congratulations!
 
no, man out of time refers to him literally being a man out of time. He was frozen in WWII and just woke up. Do you...know anything at all?



this was the story of the blue marvel. made a hero during the 1960s, wore a mask all the time until he got found out, and then there were riots and he was forced to quit.



The point is that marvel has already gone out of it's way to NOT ignore the historical race issue, even as far back as the 1960s, because doing so is a REALLY SHITTY thing to do and is considered VERY offensive when it happens.

They wouldn't ignore the issue of race if it was included in the story. So I don't accept the outrage, sorry.

no, man out of time refers to him literally being a man out of time. He was frozen in WWII and just woke up. Do you...know anything at all?

Lol

Maybe it was lost on you, but the idea is that Captain America has old fashioned principles in the world he woke up to. It's what sets him apart, and it's what actually makes him interesting. His ideals are different, his moral code obeys to that.

It's not simply because he was frozen and now he woke up decades later. That would have no meaning by itself, if the writer then makes the differences of ideals non existent and Cap easily adapts and resembles a modern day man.

Your continuous efforts to try and make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about are failing you.
 
This will continue to go over their heads. Stop trying.

If you want a latino Spider-Man why not just make him Miles Morales, an actual latino person in the real source material? Why do you have to put brownface on Peter Parker? There's no defense for it that doesn't come off as cynical and shallow, especially when a legit alternative ethnic option is available.
 
If you want a latino Spider-Man why not just make him Miles Morales, an actual latino person in the real source material? Why do you have to put brownface on Peter Parker? There's no defense for it that doesn't come off as cynical and shallow.

For someone like peter parker, you could consider the best person to play the character, and if that actor happens to be latino, black, asian, what have you then so be it.

The character's origin and even his powers have been rewritten several times already (ASM and the original story back in the 60s aren't really anything alike), so I'm not sure how "peter parker" just being the name of a latino, asian, or black guy is really an issue.

There are a few characters whose racial identity are tied into who they are and makes this problematic- Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, and maybe a few others. Spider Man isn't really one of these, especially since he's one of the few heroes who has always worn a full mask. There was even an amusing scene in she hulk where he claims he's black just to mess with JJJ and make him look like a racist.

edit: found it

4720_zps85616fd7.jpg
 

Nesotenso

Member
Rewriting Peter Parker as black or any other race, religion, creed etc. would be wrong because he is not. Race altering can be done for Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and in fact most heroes but why should we have to go down that route. If you can do the source material justice then stick to it as much as possible. Why alter something when you don't need to ?
 
For someone like peter parker, you could consider the best person to play the character, and if that actor happens to be latino, black, asian, what have you then so be it.

The character's origin and even his powers have been rewritten several times already (ASM and the original story back in the 60s aren't really anything alike), so I'm not sure how "peter parker" just being the name of a latino, asian, or black guy is really an issue.

There are a few characters whose racial identity are tied into who they are and makes this problematic- Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, and maybe a few others. Spider Man isn't really one of these, especially since he's one of the few heroes who has always worn a full mask. There was even an amusing scene in she hulk where he claims he's black just to mess with JJJ and make him look like a racist.

I think this is a subjective argument that will mean different things to different people. As was mentioned on the last page, some fans are still angry that Thor doesn't wear his helmet more often or that Hawkeye has no purple on his suit. I'm personally not comfortable with racebending characters (which happens a lot in Hollywood and usually not in minorities' favor) unless there's a compelling narrative interest in the change.
 

Ithil

Member
Perhaps they'll have Tony Stark retire as Iron Man, so they'll just have RDJ show up in a small non-action role in future Marvel films (I mean like Phase 3 and beyond).
 

RichardAM

Kwanzaagator
After the credits in Iron Man 3 it mentioned "Tony Stark will return". No brainer obviously, just the question who will play him. I'm pretty confident RDJ will return but if he doesnt, while it'd be a bit odd, it's not a dealbreaker.

Depending on the possible replacement of course.
 
Rewriting Peter Parker as black or any other race, religion, creed etc. would be wrong because he is not. Race altering can be done for Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and in fact most heroes but why should we have to go down that route. If you can do the source material justice then stick to it as much as possible. Why alter something when you don't need to ?

good question. The short answer here is that since most of these characters are perpetually stuck at the same age, their origins have to be rewritten periodically to ensure they make sense. Iron Man and the Punisher are the most glaring examples of this- One was a Korean War vet, the other a vietnam war vet. Both have had their histories substantially rewritten and will continue to have them substantially rewritten.

we're rapidly heading towards an era where there will be no racial majority in the US, so the fact that the vast majority of the marvel and DC stable don't reflect the fanbase will become an issue. maybe not in the next 10 years, but in the next 30? absolutely.

I think this is a subjective argument that will mean different things to different people. As was mentioned on the last page, some fans are still angry that Thor doesn't wear his helmet more often or that Hawkeye has no purple on his suit. I'm personally not comfortable with racebending characters (which happens a lot in Hollywood and usually not in minorities' favor) unless there's a compelling narrative interest in the change.

i'm 100% confident that marvel does not give a shit about fans that are THAT picky.

Why does Spider-Man have snakes for fingers in that last panel?

I assume a serpent-american was the best model for that particular pose. Don't be a racist, man.
 

J10

Banned
If you want a latino Spider-Man why not just make him Miles Morales, an actual latino person in the real source material? Why do you have to put brownface on Peter Parker? There's no defense for it that doesn't come off as cynical and shallow, especially when a legit alternative ethnic option is available.
The color of his skin is about as relevant as the shape of the spider on his chest. Look at it once and move on.
 

Salsa

Member
Dr. Banner says hello

very, very different case and you know it

Sure, if it didn't take place in the Marvel universe. But since it does take place in that shared universe, it would be pointless to exclude other Marvel elements from the show such as recognizable characters and actors. Would Marvel ever publish a SHIELD book that didn't take place in the larger universe and have some crossover elements? I don't think so.

I like that it takes place in the same universe, I dont mind references in dialogue and whatever, but I dont need the movie characters popping up and potentially turning the series into something people watch just to get those cameos. Im confident the writing can stand on it's own, that's what I mean.
 
As others have pointed out Cap being white makes sense and is important since he is from the 40's. Another less important aspect comes from his relation with Red Skull and the nazis. Steve is basically the physical personification of the perfect aryan yet still opposes their ideals.
 
Wikipedia says Black Panther made it, not stark. No jetpack or jet boots, he just flies on air currents like birds do.

Does he... flap his arms? Are we talking a Da Vinci glider or something?

That just sounds ridiculous. It's ridiculous that I think it sounds ridiculous, especially in this universe, but it does.
 
Wikipedia says Black Panther made it, not stark. No jetpack or jet boots, he just flies on air currents like birds do.

I believe that someone said that Cap's shield being made from Wakandan <sp?> vibranium was mentioned in one of the movies, so if Falcon's suit being made in Wakanda also becomes MCU cannon, then that bodes well for a Black Panther movie.

I'm not too familiar with BP outside of the A:EMH, although I do have the cartoon series queued up on my Instant Streaming. All I know is that he is very Batman like in his intelligence, preparation & fighting skills, and that he wears a vibranium suit I believe.

What else should I know about him and who should play him assuming he makes his appearance going into Phase 3?

(Morris Chestnut was rumored, but he is 44 and not known for physical stunt/fight work. Michael Jai White is 45, but he is still a very physical martial artist. Both seem a little old for the role, considering Phase 3 is still quite a few years off)
 

TDLink

Member
I believe that someone said that Cap's shield being made from Wakandan <sp?> vibranium was mentioned in one of the movies, so if Falcon's suit being made in Wakanda also becomes MCU cannon, then that bodes well for a Black Panther movie.

I'm not too familiar with BP outside of the A:EMH, although I do have the cartoon series queued up on my Instant Streaming. All I know is that he is very Batman like in his intelligence, preparation & fighting skills, and that he wears a vibranium suit I believe.

What else should I know about him and who should play him assuming he makes his appearance going into Phase 3?

(Morris Chestnut was rumored, but he is 44 and not known for physical stunt/fight work. Michael Jai White is 45, but he is still a very physical martial artist. Both seem a little old for the role, considering Phase 3 is still quite a few years off)

In Captain America they did say it was made of Vibranium bit did not mention Wakanda. Chestnut did in fact imply he did a screen test for the role of Black Panther but that is all we know. Screen test does not mean he is casted, there were likely other candidates. A screen test this early also implies the character would be showing up in a movie that is set to start filming either this year or next year. A Black Panther movie may happen in Phase 3 but that isn't confirmed yet. If screen tests were just happening now it is more likely the character will (or is being considered to) show up in Captain America 2, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Avengers 2, or Ant-Man. Of those, Avengers 2 seems most likely to me.
 
Showing him TALKING to BIRDS might be difficult unless they've changed the genre to comedy.

they don't need to show him actually talk, just show him with a bird not talking and then proceed with him telling the rest of the guys what he has gathered. rest of the dude can then make some witty comment about him talking to bird for humorous effect.

edit: marvel movies have plenty of comedy. have you seen avengers and ironman 3, those movies are hilarious.
 
he doesnt talk to them wow.... does a falconer talk to his falcon?

He literally has telepathic powers that let him talk to birds. That is what his super power is. I don't know what you're trying to say.

edit: marvel movies have plenty of comedy. have you seen avengers and ironman 3, those movies are hilarious.

I live in Murikah so no I haven't seen Iron Man 3, though in The Avengers you're laughing with the script and not at it.

Falcon's falcon will be voiced by Liam Neeson.

I could live with that.
 
He literally has telepathic powers that let him talk to birds. That is what his super power is. I don't know what you're trying to say.



I live in Murikah so no I haven't seen Iron Man 3, though in The Avengers you're laughing with the script and not at it.



I could live with that.

I mean they don't have to show him actually talking to his bird on the screen to show that he is communicating with the bird.


english is not my 1st language, but laughing with the script is the better preferable outcome rather than laughing at the script right? laughing at the script mean that the script is really bad or something to that effect?
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
He literally has telepathic powers that let him talk to birds. That is what his super power is. I don't know what you're trying to say.



I live in Murikah so no I haven't seen Iron Man 3, though in The Avengers you're laughing with the script and not at it.



I could live with that.

exactly so whats difficult about depicting him seeing thru their eyes with that link? I thought you meant literally talking or something. I can think of dozens of shows/movies that show people with a "link" to a bird or other animals for that matter already. It's being done right now on Game of Thrones, where's the difficulty in depicting this ability? He's going to be the ultimate recon and scout.
 
It's being done right now on Game of Thrones, where's the difficulty in depicting this ability?

Game of Thrones is fantasy and that is a magical gift. I understand that the Marvel Universe has magic, but the tone of the individual films generally remain consistent and The Winter Soldier is supposed to be an espionage thriller. That's why The Mandarin is a white terrorist and not a fumanchu stereotype weilding magical alien rings. I'm trying to picture this guy in that context and all I'm seeing is the Aquaman of the sky, I dunno. Maybe I just need to see their take on it, but to me it just doesn't fit the genre they're aiming for.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Game of Thrones is fantasy and that is a magical gift. I understand that the Marvel Universe has magic, but the tone of the individual films generally remain consistent and The Winter Soldier is supposed to be an espionage thriller. That's why The Mandarin is a white terrorist and not a fumanchu stereotype weilding magical alien rings. I'm trying to picture this guy in that context and all I'm seeing is the Aquaman of the sky, I dunno. Maybe I just need to see their take on it, but to me it just doesn't fit the genre they're aiming for.

The difference is, they have the source for falcons powers well established, the cosmic cube which was in shields possesion for some time. They dont have to have him using birds for recon...but its no less fantastic than Captain America being a super human ...with an indestructible shield made of a metal that absorbs all energy. The universe is shared , its too late now, you already saw the thing that gives the falcon his power ...open a portal to another part of the universe....and Thanos was on the other side ...I think the audience has accepted the fantastic will be a part of marvel movies.

They are shooting for The Winter Soldier. Yes its a spy/espionage thriller...for Capt America , the people going to see this film will want to see Capt America...in an espionage thriller. Staring the super soldier that might as well be made of "magic", a serum along with "vita rays" that makes you a superhuman?

The STORY has jack shit to do with any of that , the story is after the experiment, Steve Rogers now has become outwardly, what he IS inwardly as a person ,while ironically looking like the perfect blonde haired blue eyed aryan specimen covered in red white in blue , your greatest dreams turned against you eat shit Hitler. Capt America is an outright polemic against Nazi Germany's views on human worth, the story is Steve Rogers is a hero , his powers just change him to being military status, finally he passes the test! It was a way to get him out of the US and to the war. How did this happen>>>???

Its magic why try and put some kind of..science back into the source material, imagination wrote those stories. How do you even explain capt america in the context of an " espionage thriller" Both Cap and Falcons powers are extraordinary for what you seem to be envisioning. Maybe check out the comic book for a clearer picture of how it plays out the producers seem to be data mining Brubaker and his material a lot to do a good job brining it to the screen.

You shouldnt worry, besides the power given to him by the cube, the falcon is pretty much like hawkeye or any other agent type character, trained by captain america and others in combat and survival, trained by shield in recon and scouting, given tech by BP for his flying /protection. He's your basic low power high ability human hero that wont be too hard to focus on all those other things most of the time over his link with birds, should that prove to be difficult to do well.
 

eastx

Member
Game of Thrones is fantasy and that is a magical gift. I understand that the Marvel Universe has magic, but the tone of the individual films generally remain consistent and The Winter Soldier is supposed to be an espionage thriller.

The Falcon's presence certainly didn't ruin the Winter Soldier storyline in the books. Like Donosaurus said, you should probably read the books (collected in a very nice oversized hardcover collection) instead of just imagining it in a silly way that doesn't capture the feel of the source material. The Marvel movie guys have a great source story and the freedom to tweak things to get a more believable tone. There is no reason to think they won't turn the book into a compelling movie.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Joss talks Thanos in Avengers 2:

http://desdehollywood.com/exclusive-joss-whedon-saving-thanos-avengers-3-video-interview/

Well, Thanos is more powerful. He is so powerful he is not someone you can just try out and punch him. Like he did in the comics, you want him to threading through the universe and to save the big finale for ‘the big finally’. He is definitely a part of what I have got going on.

The thing about the Avengers is that they are very powerful but not very stable. So, there will definitely be some people that will shake them up in the next installment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue52oeAnlKw&feature=player_embedded
 

Blader

Member
Thanos for Avengers 3 always made more sense to me, glad Whedon is going that route.

So Masters of Evil for Avengers 2?
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Thanos for Avengers 3 always made more sense to me, glad Whedon is going that route.

So Masters of Evil for Avengers 2?

Avengers1 combined the villain from Thor and powerful artifact from Capt.America.

Avengers 2 will most likely combine something from Thor2 and GotG [Malekith/Collector/Chitauri].
 

Kimawolf

Member
Whoa, cockney Blade would be amazing. Apparently Marvel now has the film rights to Blade, Punisher, and Daredevil. Secondary (Knights?) cinematic universe? C'mooooon.

ooh a darker, gritty rated R Marvel universe...? Throw in an Alias movie too while we're at it after all, who doesn't want to see Luke Cage give it to Jessica Jones. YES PLEASE.
 

mjc

Member
I haven't read Ultron, but is it possible he is just Ant Man's thing?

They could definitely do the creation of Ultron and keep him in the shadows until after Avengers 3..but he's too much of a heavy hitter for Ant Man to take on alone.
 
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