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[autoduelist]

Regarding that UK tweet about Italy vs. Uk strategies...

What's 'cool' about that isn't if that dude is legit, or even correct. It's that he is identifying different tactics for handling pandemic at all, because that means other people who are in control are likely doing the same thing, trying to turn on and off zones as best possible to meet whatever tactics their government has chosen. It feels odd to be part of some grand experiment, and of course some plans will work better than others [containment vs intentional spread, etc] but it's great that we have 200ish governments all instituting various plans. Better than 1 picking the wrong plan. And we will have an incredible amount of knowledge gained from evaluating each plan for years to come to better deal with the next pandemic.

Don't be too harsh on the experts. Some will be wrong. But all have dedicated their lives to dealing with just such an outbreak.

------

Also... why do i keep seeing in articles that China has it under control. How does that make sense? Even if they have the Wuhan region under control how are they escaping the rest of their country having the same cycle at this point?

This is very telling

Italy is 60 million people.
US is 330 million.

If we can keep to their numbers, despite our size and number of outbreak zones, it would seem to me that we are doing better. While it makes sense for early numbers to line up [1 patient spreads formulaicly], I would think that at some point our population would have more disparate outbreak zones/spreaders and our numbers would eventually greatly outpace Italy at similar time marks. [Tho i have no idea by how much, or when the numbers would start to diverge]. Tho i suppose population density would also need to be figured in. Hard to compare such different countries.

 

[cryptoadam]

Sorrow? Indeed. Nobody wants to lose a loved one here. I'm not a flu-bro. But the panic is bizarre. Just imagine this before the internet - this would not be happening.

Britain is gonna get a one-two punch. Brexit one and dealing correctly with a regular virus two.

Anecdotally, I believe this to be a media scare. I live in Slovakia, a country that never leads in anything socially, and we closed our universities and schools way before anyone else: copying China, as cryptoadam is saying. That decision was taken out of panic, quite the opposite of the UK's rational approach. All foreign students have lost their place and been told to go home. We have about 40 cases. The country's boarders are shut, it's a twilight zone.

Im in Quebec canda. closed schools for 17 cases and 0 deaths. Cancelled our ST Patricks day parade that has ran for like the last 100 years or something.

0 Deaths. My work has a lot of single parents/parents and this is going to make them chose coming to work or watching their kids. Lucky we are not being assholes and will accomodate people. But wrecking lives over 17 cases and 0 deaths? People cleaned out grocery stores with 3 hour long check out lines, again over 0 deaths. Not one person has died. About a month ago we had a 200 car pile up and 2 people died. MORE PEOPLE DIED in the car pile up then from Corona. Yet we didn't ban cars, close highways, close schools, and close work just in case someone drove to work and crashed their car.

For countries that this has gotten out of control and is killing their elderly they need to take drastic measures. I even support countries limiting travel so they don't bring in any more infected. But this panic is insanity.

Hey you know what this time period sucks anyways and if this makes things quite, lowers foot traffic around town I don't mind. By summer time most smart countries will have this under control like Germany/Japan/SK and we will be able to enjoy the summer.

I mourn for the loss of life to the elderly and to the countries that fuck this up because they go into panic mode and aren't doing their best to protect the vulnerable.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Im in Quebec canda. closed schools for 17 cases and 0 deaths. Cancelled our ST Patricks day parade that has ran for like the last 100 years or something.

0 Deaths. My work has a lot of single parents/parents and this is going to make them chose coming to work or watching their kids. Lucky we are not being assholes and will accomodate people. But wrecking lives over 17 cases and 0 deaths? People cleaned out grocery stores with 3 hour long check out lines, again over 0 deaths. Not one person has died. About a month ago we had a 200 car pile up and 2 people died. MORE PEOPLE DIED in the car pile up then from Corona. Yet we didn't ban cars, close highways, close schools, and close work just in case someone drove to work and crashed their car.

For countries that this has gotten out of control and is killing their elderly they need to take drastic measures. I even support countries limiting travel so they don't bring in any more infected. But this panic is insanity.

Hey you know what this time period sucks anyways and if this makes things quite, lowers foot traffic around town I don't mind. By summer time most smart countries will have this under control like Germany/Japan/SK and we will be able to enjoy the summer.

I mourn for the loss of life to the elderly and to the countries that fuck this up because they go into panic mode and aren't doing their best to protect the vulnerable.

Then work to vote your elected officials out of office. The beauty of democracy.

 

[rykomatsu]

-Deleted- my fat fingers fumbled on the phone...

 

[Alx]

Do the French smoke a lot?

More than the average European. It's decreasing though.
The "change of attitude" asked from the PM is about people not worrying enough. He said he kept seeing people going to bars and restaurants as usual, which "would please him in other situations, but not this time". The Yellow Vests even tried to re-launch a new wave of demonstrations...
For better or worse, the French population doesn't let external conditions bother them too much. It's convenient in case of terror attacks, not so much during an epidemy.

 

[T8SC]

Im in Quebec canda. closed schools for 17 cases and 0 deaths. Cancelled our ST Patricks day parade that has ran for like the last 100 years or something.

0 Deaths. My work has a lot of single parents/parents and this is going to make them chose coming to work or watching their kids. Lucky we are not being assholes and will accomodate people. But wrecking lives over 17 cases and 0 deaths? People cleaned out grocery stores with 3 hour long check out lines, again over 0 deaths. Not one person has died. About a month ago we had a 200 car pile up and 2 people died. MORE PEOPLE DIED in the car pile up then from Corona. Yet we didn't ban cars, close highways, close schools, and close work just in case someone drove to work and crashed their car.

For countries that this has gotten out of control and is killing their elderly they need to take drastic measures. I even support countries limiting travel so they don't bring in any more infected. But this panic is insanity.

Hey you know what this time period sucks anyways and if this makes things quite, lowers foot traffic around town I don't mind. By summer time most smart countries will have this under control like Germany/Japan/SK and we will be able to enjoy the summer.

I mourn for the loss of life to the elderly and to the countries that fuck this up because they go into panic mode and aren't doing their best to protect the vulnerable.

Agreed. It stinks of Governments missing the boat to be proactive several weeks ago and are now being overly reactive so that they are seen to be doing something to the majority of the dumb public who are currently quitting gyms and hiding in the sandpit because some junk newspaper scared them.

 

[cryptoadam]

Then work to vote your elected officials out of office. The beauty of democracy.

Blackface man is immortal. And then the other choice are the frenchies that hate everything english. So stuck between a blackface and french fry.

 

[The Scrivener]

Im in Quebec canda. closed schools for 17 cases and 0 deaths. Cancelled our ST Patricks day parade that has ran for like the last 100 years or something.

0 Deaths. My work has a lot of single parents/parents and this is going to make them chose coming to work or watching their kids. Lucky we are not being assholes and will accomodate people. But wrecking lives over 17 cases and 0 deaths? People cleaned out grocery stores with 3 hour long check out lines, again over 0 deaths. Not one person has died. About a month ago we had a 200 car pile up and 2 people died. MORE PEOPLE DIED in the car pile up then from Corona. Yet we didn't ban cars, close highways, close schools, and close work just in case someone drove to work and crashed their car.

For countries that this has gotten out of control and is killing their elderly they need to take drastic measures. I even support countries limiting travel so they don't bring in any more infected. But this panic is insanity.

Hey you know what this time period sucks anyways and if this makes things quite, lowers foot traffic around town I don't mind. By summer time most smart countries will have this under control like Germany/Japan/SK and we will be able to enjoy the summer.

I mourn for the loss of life to the elderly and to the countries that fuck this up because they go into panic mode and aren't doing their best to protect the vulnerable.

I hope the world pulls through too. My son has had a hard life so far, he also has Type 1 diabetes. I'm reading that some countries are running out of insulin because of this, and that scares the hell out of me, letting him down. We've cancelled his appointment he had coming up next week, but we still need the prescribed medicines. Sorry for writing all this, I don't really have anyone apart from GAF to share problems with. I want to do my bit to bring rationality and reason to society.

But like you say, even sharing on social media already we cannot say these things, it has to be all socially acceptable.

 

[jts]

Aren't France going a bit mental? Apparently they're closing all shops, cinemas, cafes. WTF?

All shops?

Overkill lol, society is going fucking bonkers.

This is really revealing itself to be a media scare like nothing ever before.

It really is not and I'm not sure you're paying attention to the trends. They are trying what they can do to prevent an absolute calamity from coming. But if they prevent it, people dismissing it like you are just go like "see, wasn't so bad lol. what's with all the panic?"

Sorrow? Indeed. Nobody wants to lose a loved one here. I'm not a flu-bro. But the panic is bizarre. Just imagine this before the internet - this would not be happening.

Britain is gonna get a one-two punch. Brexit one and dealing correctly with a regular virus two.

Anecdotally, I believe this to be a media scare. I live in Slovakia, a country that never leads in anything socially, and we closed our universities and schools way before anyone else: copying China, as cryptoadam is saying. That decision was taken out of panic, quite the opposite of the UK's rational approach. All foreign students have lost their place and been told to go home. We have about 40 cases. The country's boarders are shut, it's a twilight zone.

This is exactly what I mean. You have about 40 cases after taking drastic measures, so imagine if you hadn't. It's actually showing that it was the right approach, unlike the UK. The earlier the shutdowns the better, the harsher the better. All of this is proving to be true.

Your mindset is the kind of resistance that enables pandemics.

 

[Jtibh]

European airlines facing BLOODBATH as coronavirus crisis rocks industry https://www.rt.com/news/483152-airline-industry-crisis-coronavirus/

 

[cryptoadam]

I hope the world pulls through too. My son has had a hard life so far, he also has Type 1 diabetes. I'm reading that some countries are running out of insulin because of this, and that scares the hell out of me, letting him down. We've cancelled his appointment he had coming up next week, but we still need the prescribed medicines. Sorry for writing all this, I don't really have anyone apart from GAF to share problems with. I want to do my bit to bring rationality and reason to society.

But like you say, even sharing on social media already we cannot say these things, it has to be all socially acceptable.

I hope your son is ok. I hope none of those toilet paper fuckers try and hoard all the needed drugs because you know these assholes got mine attitude would do that BS.

Keep safe and keep your son safe. I think we need to find a fine line between under reaction and over reaction. But the world just went bonkers into the overreaction phase.

I kinda blame the media for this because they kept pushing Trump. And Trump doesn't want to look bad so his only choice is to take these drastic steps or be bashed 24/7 in the media. So now since the US has taken drastic steps everyone else is following the lead.

 

[Hotspurr]

Global doubling time in still around 4 days (outside China). Italy is on fire.
At this rate if things are not curbed you're looking at 1 million people by the end of the month.
South Korea should make a Coronavirus "How-To" video. Those guys deserve a medal.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

I doubt it considiring that only 8 people under 60 died. I doubt many old people are going to love hotels. I actually bet people over 60 arent going anywhere.

You know who else has gps tracking? My uber eats driver.

SK did take measures but not comparable to what China did.

Our overlord just posted italy numbers. Pretty much all deaths arenl over 60.

Want to solve this? Quarantine OLD people and deaths probably plunge by 95% and hospilization by 97%.

Uber eats doesn't publish tracking outside uber eats activity, and it only publishes tracking to the person ordering. SK publishes almost all tracking and it does so for the entire private travels of a person and for everyone to see. They try to anonymize but they give so much info it is easy to identify and make people into social pariahs.

Sure 60 plus won't be travelling to love hotels, but they don't live in limbo. They often have 1 or more younger person they are in contact with. If young people are afraid of public shamming and have mild symptoms, they won't test or report and it will spread widely silently until it reaches the elder population and overwhelms the hospitals. Again unless draconian forced testing is done.

So its airborne ?

China confirms coronavirus is airborne

Why no one post on GAF ? Believe it or not i trust GAF to give good information.

I think others have posted, I posted about it a few pages ago but thread is moving fast.

This isn't new. The virus can only travel about 10 feet before it falls to the ground which is why they say social separation is the way to go.

There is a retracted study that says it can remains airborne for over 30 Mins and travel around 15~ feet.

Unknown why it was retracted. For valid reasons? Or to avoid panic?

Apparently the term “airborne” is being misunderstood though. When I listen to the experts that doesn’t mean it just floats around in the air. It just just means it can be ejected in aerosol form.

I thought a handful of days ago that when they said “it can be airborne for hours” that means if you walk into a room an hour after someone who had it did and breathe in that air you’ll get it. The people I’ve heard since say that is not the case or this would be historic level contagiousness rating. It’s really just respiratory droplets

There is a retracted study that says it can remains airborne for over 30 Mins and travel around 15~ feet.

Bigger problem is public restrooms I think. The air dryers move air about, and the toilets aerosolize bodily fluids.

S.Korea, with MASSIVE number of tests and formidable health services, achieved slightly below 1% mortality rate.

For now. I think their public shaming tactics will cause anyone with mild symptoms to avoid reporting. Unless forced testing takes place, it may spread silently widely.

Is this true? I’ve read conflicting info. Droplets which can stay airborne until gravity makes them fall (6-10 feet dispersal or X seconds) are one thing, but aerosolization is another. Is there any official documentation (CDC, WHO, Korean/Italian authorities) which states that this can be aerosolized?

My job just closed all global offices and allowed everyone to work from home for at least the next few weeks, so I’m not too concerned for myself, but my parents and wife are at greater risk (the latter due to commuting in NYC via train and the former due to age/immunodeficiency). So whether it’s aerosolized is important to know, because then they’ll need to wear the N95 masks when in public in addition to avoiding unnecessary social contact.

Thanks. I’m aware that the difference between aerosolization and airborne droplets is ultimately just a matter of degree, since as you said everything will succumb to gravity eventually, but that difference does have implications for a transmissibility since aerosolized particles can travel much further. So to my mind it’s a fairly important distinction, especially since I live in an urban area.

There's Evilore's linked study and there's also a retracted study from a bus case study.

Again note the bus case study was retracted for unknown reason.

Coronavirus can travel twice as far as official ‘safe distance’ and stay in air for 30 minutes, Chinese study finds

• Authorities advise people to stay 1-2 metres apart, but researchers found that a bus passenger infected fellow travellers sitting 4.5 metres away
• The scientists behind the research said thei

Coronavirus can travel twice as far as official ‘safe distance’, study says

Health authorities advise people to stay 1-2 metres apart, but researchers found that a bus passenger infected fellow travellers sitting 4.5 metres away.

www.scmp.com

 

[llien]

Let's get one thing straight, we have a branch of science called:

Epidemiology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nothing, of what is going on is particularly novel or, as systemic problem, gives room to something particularly creative.
Humanity has seen and handled it not so long ago:

Seventh cholera pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the current situation in Finland.
I live in the area with 14 cases.

Besides number of cases, epidemiologists track "type" of them.
4th type is when you have no clue when somebody gets virus with no obvious source, this is what should trigger the lock-downs.

That is, what I assume, is going on in Germany, France, UK, Spain (and of course, Italy)

 

[Teslerum]

Coronavirus Update (Live): 131,897,800 Cases and 2,865,517 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

- "We're close to the point of no return for intensive care beds in Lombardy. We have 15 to 20 intensive care beds left. With 85 new people entering ICU every day and 2 or 3 leaving, we're close to the point of no return. "There are no more ambulances" - Lombardy Welfare Councilor Gallera added - "and therefore someone will have to wait late in the evening." [source] 732 patients are currently treated in intensive care in Lombardy, and 76 new deaths were reported in the region today [source]

- In Bergamo, "deaths have quintupled from a week ago. There is a burial every half hour" said Councilor for Cemetery Services Giacomo Angeloni. "There are many elderly people at home with breathing difficulties. They are not hospitalized because the hospitals are full" said the mayor of Alzano Lombardo Carmelo Bertocchi [source]

 

[Jtibh]

In

I hope the world pulls through too. My son has had a hard life so far, he also has Type 1 diabetes. I'm reading that some countries are running out of insulin because of this, and that scares the hell out of me, letting him down. We've cancelled his appointment he had coming up next week, but we still need the prescribed medicines. Sorry for writing all this, I don't really have anyone apart from GAF to share problems with. I want to do my bit to bring rationality and reason to society.

But like you say, even sharing on social media already we cannot say these things, it has to be all socially acceptable.

Hate the term but this is a safe space for this type of communication.
Share your stories and problems. I am sure fellow gaffers can relate to your situation and can offer advice on the fly.

Forget social media. You dont need to be made fun off.

 

[DragoonKain]

Uber eats doesn't publish tracking outside uber eats activity, and it only publishes tracking to the person ordering. SK publishes almost all tracking and it does so for the entire private travels of a person.

Sure 60 plus won't be travelling to love hotels, but they don't live in limbo. They often have 1 or more younger person they are in contact with. If young people are afraid of public shamming and have mild symptoms, they won't test or report and it will spread widely silently until it reaches the elder population and overwhelms the hospitals. Again unless draconian forced testing is done.

I think others have posted, I posted about it a few pages ago but thread is moving fast.

There is a retracted study that says it can remains airborne for over 30 Mins and travel around 15~ feet.

Unknown why it was retracted. For valid reasons? Or to avoid panic?
There is a retracted study that says it can remains airborne for over 30 Mins and travel around 15~ feet.

Bigger problem is public restrooms I think. The air dryers move air about, and the toilets aerosolize bodily fluids.

For now. I think their public shaming tactics will cause anyone with mild symptoms from avoiding to report. Unless forced testing takes place, it may spread silently widely.



There's Evilore's linked study and there's also a retracted study from a bus case study.

Again note the bus case study was retracted for unknown reason.

Yeah, I never got the "stays airborne" thing. As long as gravity is a thing, organisms(even microscopic ones) don't stay airborne unless they are propelled upward by forces of nature.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

China all better now

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

That’s still a lot.

Hard to say. We don't know what "serious" means. We don't even know if its true - we need reliable sources, not twitter journalists who type in all caps and only care about being the first to post something, with no regard for the veracity of what they're putting out.

 

[DeepEnigma]

August 21, 2019 - Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security to host Event 201, a global pandemic exercise

Event 201 | Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY.

www.centerforhealthsecurity.org

Event 201 | Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY.

www.centerforhealthsecurity.org

 

[Teslerum]

Let's get one thing straight, we have a branch of science called:

Epidemiology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nothing, of what is going on is particularly novel or, as systemic problem, gives room to something particularly creative.
Humanity has seen and handled it not so long ago:

Seventh cholera pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Uhm, Cholera needed years to jump from country to country. How is that even remotly comperable?

If this virus needed as long we wouldn't have a problem at all.

 

[cryptoadam]

It really is not and I'm not sure you're paying attention to the trends. They are trying what they can do to prevent an absolute calamity from coming. But if they prevent it, people dismissing it like you are just go like "see, wasn't so bad lol. what's with all the panic?"

This is exactly what I mean. You have about 40 cases after taking drastic measures, so imagine if you hadn't. It's actually showing that it was the right approach, unlike the UK. The earlier the shutdowns the better, the harsher the better. All of this is proving to be true.

Your mindset is the kind of resistance that enables pandemics.

If I said there was a virus that infected 10K people, but only 2 died and they both had underlying health conditions what would you say?

What if I said the virus hit another country, its a little worse with deaths of 8, but only 6300 infected. Would you want to close all schools and work?

There is nothing to make light of a new virus, new viruses are bad. But the fact that this is deadly to the elderly but this information is not being shared is what caused the panic. Why do you need to go panic buying and shut down schools when its only people above 60 that are dying?

I am not making light of old people or them dying. I think its a tragedy that 250 people died in Italy yesterday even if they were all over 70.

The response to this has been completely wrong on all levels and now everyone is so scared that even talking about thing sensibility is being dismissed.

Points I agree on, travel ban makes sense, especially from importing or exporting it. New Virus we don't have a vaccine for should 100% attempted to be contained and stamped out.

 

[The Scrivener]

It really is not and I'm not sure you're paying attention to the trends. They are trying what they can do to prevent an absolute calamity from coming. But if they prevent it, people dismissing it like you are just go like "see, wasn't so bad lol. what's with all the panic?"

This is exactly what I mean. You have about 40 cases after taking drastic measures, so imagine if you hadn't. It's actually showing that it was the right approach, unlike the UK. The earlier the shutdowns the better, the harsher the better. All of this is proving to be true.

Your mindset is the kind of resistance that enables pandemics.

I don't disagree, maybe next time society could do the same thing with less panic. There hasn't even been that much panic either tbh, but the affect it might have on incomes and ambitions is potentially crazy. Like FB has been sharing - 2020 is a write off.

Slovakia is kind of a "socially distant" country already lol.

Also, I wouldn't say my mindset is the problem. I'm doing my bit to not cause any unwanted spread. We still have to wait and see if the UK was correct, and if they are, then that speaks volumes.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Yeah, I never got the "stays airborne" thing. As long as gravity is a thing, organisms(even microscopic ones) don't stay airborne unless they are propelled upward by forces of nature.

It remained in the air for 30 min in a bus, unless the retracted study is wrong.

edit:

There is nothing to make light of a new virus, new viruses are bad. But the fact that this is deadly to the elderly but this information is not being shared is what caused the panic. Why do you need to go panic buying and shut down schools when its only people above 60 that are dying?

It has only infected a few thousands outside china. The doctor that blew the whistle was in his 30s and died. There are also anecdotes of a family of 4 two children and the mother and father dying in china, iirc. Some under 60 also experience serious complications and may need ICU. Once ICU beds are overwhelmed death rate may go up significantly(around 11% experience serious complications of which around half need ICU, iirc).

Also it appears it might cause infertility hopefully temporarily. The United States also has an obesity and overweight epidemic, with over 60% prediabetic, iirc. I've heard people who are obese are also at risk.

 

[llien]

Uhm, Cholera needed years to jump from country to country. How is that even remotly comperable?

If this virus needed as long we wouldn't have a problem at all.

That was because people traveled a lot less, not because it needed much time to spread.
It hit USSR in summer of 1970 and quickly spread to 20 cities, including Moscow and Leningrad. (these are 500km+ apart)

Lock downs followed, and at around September 1970 it was over.

 

[Insane Metal]

This is getting really ugly, really fast.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

LIVE: Spain’s Sanchez holds press conference on state of emergency amid coronavirus outbreak


I don't know if this will have an English audio translation but I am very curious to Spain's next move because I think they are in some deep shit after that huge spike.

Stream should start in 20-30 minutes

did not get english audio but

 

[Alx]

Yeah, I never got the "stays airborne" thing. As long as gravity is a thing, organisms(even microscopic ones) don't stay airborne unless they are propelled upward by forces of nature.

For microscopic matters, gravity is a very minor factor. The way stuff will move will depend more on interactions with surrounding molecules.

 

[jts]

If I said there was a virus that infected 10K people, but only 2 died and they both had underlying health conditions what would you say?

What if I said the virus hit another country, its a little worse with deaths of 8, but only 6300 infected. Would you want to close all schools and work?

There is nothing to make light of a new virus, new viruses are bad. But the fact that this is deadly to the elderly but this information is not being shared is what caused the panic. Why do you need to go panic buying and shut down schools when its only people above 60 that are dying?

I am not making light of old people or them dying. I think its a tragedy that 250 people died in Italy yesterday even if they were all over 70.

The response to this has been completely wrong on all levels and now everyone is so scared that even talking about thing sensibility is being dismissed.

Points I agree on, travel ban makes sense, especially from importing or exporting it. New Virus we don't have a vaccine for should 100% attempted to be contained and stamped out.

You're using some numbers at the beginning of a pandemic to downplay the situation but the big picture is overloaded hospitals with people needing respiratory support (and not just the elderly), exponential growth trends, understaffed medical personnel, not enough equipment, reduction of response capacity for other emergencies and medical situations etc.

Most of this is going on and will continue to go on even with the half-assed containment measures we've been seeing.

 

[DragoonKain]

It remained in the air for 30 min in a bus, unless the retracted study is wrong.

edit:

It has only infected a few thousands outside china. The doctor that blew the whistle was in his 30s and died. There are also anecdotes of a family of 4 two children and the mother and father dying in china, iirc. Some under 60 also experience serious complications and may need ICU. Once ICU beds are overwhelmed death rate may go up significantly(around 11% experience serious complications of which around half need ICU, iirc).

Also it appears it might cause infertility hopefully temporarily. The United States also has an obesity and overweight epidemic, with over 60% prediabetic, iirc. I've heard people who are obese are also at risk.

I believe the study was in a controlled environment and it being shot up in a specific aerosol form and taking its way to make it to surfaces. But in most instances it will be heavier concentrations that fall to the surface quickly.

At least that’s what the expert on Sam Harris said.

 

[jufonuk]

Im waiting to see if the U.K. and France are gonna lock down flights. Want to get home to France. Then get stuck there. Flight is on Monday morning.

 

[sinnergy]

Hard to say. We don't know what "serious" means. We don't even know if its true - we need reliable sources, not twitter journalists who type in all caps and only care about being the first to post something, with no regard for the veracity of what they're putting out.

Yes, let’s wait ...

 

[Jtibh]

Spain to enter nationwide LOCKDOWN as coronavirus crisis prompts ‘drastic’ measures https://www.rt.com/news/483136-spain-coronavirus-lockdown-government/

 

[jufonuk]

You're using some numbers at the beginning of a pandemic to downplay the situation but the big picture is overloaded hospitals with people needing respiratory support (and not just the elderly), exponential growth trends, understaffed medical personnel, not enough equipment, reduction of response capacity for other emergencies and medical situations etc.

Most of this is going on and will continue to go on even with the half-assed containment measures we've been seeing.

I hope after all this all medical facilities world wide get all the money thrown at them. No more fucking cuts no more austerity.

health over wealth.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

In other news..

 

[Jtibh]

Berlin shuts museums, bars & even BROTHELS, in tough crackdown on virus spread https://www.rt.com/news/483155-berlin-coronavirus-museums-brothels-shutdown/

 

[cryptoadam]

It remained in the air for 30 min in a bus, unless the retracted study is wrong.

edit:

It has only infected a few thousands outside china. The doctor that blew the whistle was in his 30s and died. There are also anecdotes of a family of 4 two children and the mother and father dying in china, iirc. Some under 60 also experience serious complications and may need ICU. Once ICU beds are overwhelmed death rate may go up significantly(around 11% experience serious complications of which around half need ICU, iirc).

Also it appears it might cause infertility hopefully temporarily. The United States also has an obesity and overweight epidemic, with over 60% prediabetic, iirc. I've heard people who are obese are also at risk.

For one I want to say that this is serious because any NEW VIRUS that we don't have a vaccine for is an issue.

But antedotal stories about young people are just that. We have the numbers, and they point to over 95% being about 60, and I might be low balling that. SK had 0 deats under 30 and only 2 under 50. Italy 99% of deaths are above 60. China had mortality rates for under 60 between .2 and .8.

11% have serious complications, how many of those are people under 50? half of those need ICU, again how many under 50? If death rates for under 50 are so low I have a feeling that hospitlization is following the same breakdown. so we are talking 5% of that 11%, and then 50% of the 5% of the 11% that need to go into the ICU.

So if we can manage to keep this away from the old people you will see death rates plummet and hospilitzaions. Its why I bet Japan/Germany are doing so well number wise. Its probably why we don't see stories about SK collapising or why Taiwan didn't become Wuhan v2.

Now again we don't know long term effects or damage so we shouldn't be just saying oh its just the flu bro. Also it spreads easily and quickly so we want to limit a new virus going around as much as possible. But the panic that is going on outweighs the damage the virus can do if we are smart about it.

 

[jufonuk]

Reading some of the texts from my brother who works in a supermarket in London. People are striping the shop bare.
Fighting over toilet paper.
When they tried to restrict sales the customers threatened to stab or shot the star. One manager was nearly head-butted.
He said how one customer wanted baby wipes not a few packs but the whole carton on the shelf. My brother took a few as he wanted to give them to people who needed them.
He did this by telling someone who wanted them to pay at the other till but not show anyone.

people need to stop this level of selfishness. If they acting this way now. No wonder governments worried they gonna overload things.

 

[mango drank]

In other news..

Yeah, if they die now, they won't be able to die by suicide later.

 

[JordanN]

Just another day in Toronto

Shopping music.

 

[Jtibh]

 

[12Goblins]

I believe the study was in a controlled environment and it being shot up in a specific aerosol form and taking its way to make it to surfaces. But in most instances it will be heavier concentrations that fall to the surface quickly.

At least that’s what the expert on Sam Harris said.

got a link?

 

[Ma-Yuan]

No idea if true also its Bild.de but they say Iran has 175k cases....

 

[Wwg1wga]

China all better now

Wow, their hair grew super fast !

Coronavirus nurses in China are shaving their heads to ‘improve efficiency’

Some Chinese nurses fighting the deadly coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, China — the epicenter of the outbreak — have taken an extreme measure to reportedly improve efficiency: shaving their heads.

www.foxnews.com

 

[DragoonKain]

got a link?

I just listened to it on my phone with the podcast app. Look for the one with Amesh Adalja and I think he talks about how the airborne stuff is misleading in the first 5-10 minutes of it. Not sure if there's a way you can listen to it directly.

 

[sinnergy]

Regarding that UK tweet about Italy vs. Uk strategies...

What's 'cool' about that isn't if that dude is legit, or even correct. It's that he is identifying different tactics for handling pandemic at all, because that means other people who are in control are likely doing the same thing, trying to turn on and off zones as best possible to meet whatever tactics their government has chosen. It feels odd to be part of some grand experiment, and of course some plans will work better than others [containment vs intentional spread, etc] but it's great that we have 200ish governments all instituting various plans. Better than 1 picking the wrong plan. And we will have an incredible amount of knowledge gained from evaluating each plan for years to come to better deal with the next pandemic.

Don't be too harsh on the experts. Some will be wrong. But all have dedicated their lives to dealing with just such an outbreak.

------

Also... why do i keep seeing in articles that China has it under control. How does that make sense? Even if they have the Wuhan region under control how are they escaping the rest of their country having the same cycle at this point?




Italy is 60 million people.
US is 330 million.

If we can keep to their numbers, despite our size and number of outbreak zones, it would seem to me that we are doing better. While it makes sense for early numbers to line up [1 patient spreads formulaicly], I would think that at some point our population would have more disparate outbreak zones/spreaders and our numbers would eventually greatly outpace Italy at similar time marks. [Tho i have no idea by how much, or when the numbers would start to diverge]. Tho i suppose population density would also need to be figured in. Hard to compare such different countries.

What kind of thinking is this , it not a fucking experiment in a class room , don’t care if your tactic works , in theory. There are proven examples China , SK and a couple of others. It’s human lives you are taking about , not numbers .

Lock down, curb the curve.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Yes, let’s wait ...

Wait for what?

 

[gamerMan]

So if we can manage to keep this away from the old people you will see death rates plummet and hospilitzaions. But the panic that is going on outweighs the damage the virus can do if we are smart about it.

Isn't this what the UK is doing? They haven't shut anything down. They recommend protecting old people. The Prime Minister said "I think we should all be thinking about our elderly relatives... and everything we can do to protect them over the next few months."

Have we looked at how many young people have to be hospitalized because the whole point in shutting down everything is not to overwhelm the hospitals and flatten the curve.

 

[moniker]

What I'm saying is that it's not as huge a gamble as you think it is. It's a reasonable approach based on known knowns and history. "what if it mutates rapidly", "what if there are multiple strains", and "what if people don't maintain immunity" are points that are still only speculation and not proven. Historically speaking, these "what ifs" are exceptions to the rule.

That's fair, I'm sorry if I came off as unnecessarily confrontational. But the speculation goes both ways. I certainly hope this plays out in the best way possible.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

No idea if true also its Bild.de but they say Iran has 175k cases....

I would have a hard time believing they would test this much to find that many

maybe 7k I would believe