Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Djau said:
With this virus, you don't want any spread. One person getting it is going to be able to spread to a lot of people and with how mutagenic it is, its just a matter of time until it progresses to a lethal at all ages stage.

With regards to lockdowns; no matter if we open now or when its correct to do so...we either way must get used to the new paradigm of wearing PPE outside at all times until a vaccine is discovered within a year or two.
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I fully disagree with you. We want controlled spread. And we want our economy open.

If we shut down our economy for a year or two until there is a vaccine, we will not only destroy this country from the inside, we will see far more deaths from hunger than this pandemic would have caused.

If we have people going to work, there will be spread. Therefore there will be spread.

And that's assuming we don't see our adversaries take advantage of such blatant weakness and start a war.

This idea we can sit in our homes and wait it out while other people produce our food, deliver our food, and the world will put itself on pause while we do our nails is absurd. Not possible.

Stop panicking. Order a damn towel on amazon.
 
autoduelist said:
I fully disagree with you. We want controlled spread. And we want our economy open.

If we shut down our economy for a year or two until there is a vaccine, we will not only destroy this country from the inside, we will see far more deaths from hunger than this pandemic would have caused.

If we have people going to work, there will be spread. Therefore there will be spread.

And that's assuming we don't see our adversaries take advantage of such blatant weakness and start a war.

This idea we can sit in our homes and wait it out while other people produce our food, deliver our food, and the world will put itself on pause while we do our nails is absurd. Not possible.

Stop panicking. Order a damn towel on amazon.
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Who are you willing to sacrifice for this?
 
Jtibh said:
Anyone missing to go out and have fun?
Spring is here we finaly have double digits and lots of sun and i need to hit the mountains.

What are you guys missing the most?
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The restaurants, the parks, the mountain, the Old Port, the festivals, the night life, the random encounters... all of it.
 
Leyasu said:
A problem also lies with terminology used by the governments. They should have called it what it was, and then carried out a one and done..... Quarantine.

Quarantines have been used for centuries. They work, as long as you do what needs to be done. it is a painful thing to go through for everyone involved and the economy suffers, but a strict quarantine would have effectively eradicated COVID-19 if done correctly. Yes, it may mean losing some freedom for a few months, but it would have meant that we could have emerged in a better place. Instead of the continued paranoia which will linger.

No, Colorado or any other state in the US or anywhere doesn't need to have shoot to kill goons on every highway, just a message that for anyone changing state must accept a three week quarantine in a designated location. Exemptions for those transporting essential goods, and designated areas for those involved. There are things that could be done.

Just think of it as two men in solitary confinement.

One is fed.
One is starved.

The fed man lives.
The starved man dies.

Now change it for a virus.

The virus allowed to spread lives.
The virus starved of hosts dies.

I don't mean to be patronising either...
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If we sat inside until the virus was starved of hosts we'd have mass famine and starve ourselves to death.

Voluntary social distancing and mask use will starve the virus. We already see this. But that doesn't mean we need to enact draconian restrictions on the populace when it's quite clear a solid chunk of the populace is using proper precautions.

Flattening the curve never meant people would never get corona. It meant slowing the uptick to avoid being overwhelmed. Mission achieved - we never ran out of beds or ventilators in NYC, our biggest hotspot. And that spread occurred before people took precautions.

Now everyone is aware. Most in densely populated areas are taking precautions. We likely will not have another NYC because of this, but even if we did, we have shown we are up for it.

But again, even with flattening the curve we always expected spread, just delayed. That is the entire point. It was never to starve it out entirely, because that is impossible, and if we ever thought we achieved that here we still wouldn't be able to travel out of country ever again.

There is a reason 1 year ago people sat together, despite the Spanish flu. There is a reason people screwed around, despite syphilis. There is a reason people went to sporting events despite the Black Death. It is because panic is temporary. We are in a state of panic, and many are being irrational.

There is a decent chance most people, or at least a large percentage of people, will get this before a vaccine is found. We need to protect our vulnerable. We need to monitor for hotspots and take corrective action when found. But we also need to be brave, and get this country kickstarted before famine or worse.

We need to be open. Hell, on the international stage it is a race to reopen, because any country which breaks under this pressure will lose footing.
 
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ManaByte said:
You're obviously willing to sacrifice everyone because keeping people locked up until there's a "cure" will cause even more deaths.
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Government can examine the strictness of the lockdown as time passes and if food production is seriously affected food workers can be allowed back to work in full PPE. If people can't feed themselves then Government should step in.

What we really need before Lockdown opens back up is legislation put in to REALLY hit employers hard who aren't socially distancing their offices, providing full PPE, flexible time for sick leave (paid) and full plexi-glass to prevent aerosols. This is what should be getting talked about. We can safely open up once strict measures are put in place until Coronavirus is eradicated.
 
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Djau said:
Government can examine the strictness of the lockdown as time passes and if food production is seriously affected food workers can be allowed back to work in full PPE. If people can't feed themselves then Government should step in.
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But the government stepping in is what would cause people becoming unable to feed themselves in the first place.
 
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autoduelist said:
If we sat inside until the virus was starved of hosts we'd have mass famine and starve ourselves to death.

Voluntary social distancing and mask use will starve the virus. We already see this. But that doesn't mean we need to enact draconian restrictions on the populace when it's quite clear a solid chunk of the populace is using proper precautions.

Flattening the curve never meant people would never get corona. It meant slowing the uptick to avoid being overwhelmed. Mission achieved - we never ran out of beds or ventilators in NYC, our biggest hotspot. And that spread occurred before people took precautions.

Now everyone is aware. Most in densely populated areas are taking precautions. We likely will not have another NYC because of this, but even if we did, we have shown we are up for it.

But again, even with flattening the curve we always expected spread, just delayed. That is the entire point. It was never to starve it out entirely, because that is impossible, and if we ever thought we achieved that here we still wouldn't be able to travel out of country ever again.

There is a reason 1 year ago people sat together, despite the Spanish flu. There is a reason people screwed around, despite syphilis. There is a reason people went to sporting events despite the Black Death. It is because panic is temporary. We are in a state of panic, and many are being irrational.

There is a decent chance most people, or at least a large percentage of people, will get this before a vaccine is found. We need to protect our vulnerable. We need to monitor for hotspots and take corrective action when found. But we also need to be brave, and get this country kickstarted before famine or worse.

We need to be open. Hell, on the international stage it is a race to reopen, because any country which breaks under this pressure will lose footing.
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The bottom line is much like Andy Dufresne said in Shawshank:



Our entire way of living is built upon motility. (life period, in fact) No one wants to see people die unnecessarily, but life must be lived via movement/action. It's not possible for society *or* individual life to persist in a stagnant state. It just rots.
 
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autoduelist said:
Fuck off with the attempt at shaming.

Who are you willing to risk to grow your food for you?
Who are you willing to risk delivering it to your house for you?
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Thats why we're called essential workers.

Zefah said:
But the government stepping in is what would cause people becoming unable to feed themselves in the first place.
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Like it or not the crisis can only be solved with Government work. New economy, automation, this is all needed asap. Coronavirus is just the start as we get more populated this will happen again and again.
 
Djau said:
Like it or not the crisis can only be solved with Government work. New economy, automation, this is all needed asap. Coronavirus is just the start as we get more populated this will happen again and again.
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OIP.y5STTHz5rPHV6DeCzEq4LwHaJQ
 
Djau said:
Like it or not the crisis can only be solved with Government work. New economy, automation, this is all needed asap. Coronavirus is just the start as we get more populated this will happen again and again.
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No, thanks.
 
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ManaByte said:
OIP.y5STTHz5rPHV6DeCzEq4LwHaJQ
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I wouldn't go as far as communism to be honest. But at-home work and automation for food production should happen to minimize the impact in a similar future situation. Future epidemics, climate change, etc this is all going to have a massive strain.
 
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Djau said:
I wouldn't go as far as communism to be honest. But at-home work and automation for food production should happen to minimize the impact in a similar future situation.
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And you expect the government to be able figure that out? In which country? Not even China, one of the most oppressive and authoritarian governments in the world with the luxury of also being the world's factory, would be able to pull something like this off.

ManaByte said:
And what about the jobs that can't be done at home? Fuck those people, right?
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Basic income and planned economy, I'm sure. But of course... not Communism!
 
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ManaByte said:
And what about the jobs that can't be done at home? Fuck those people, right?
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Protective gear, as safe an environment as possible and the right to bring the employer to court should they put workers at-risk.

Zefah said:
And you expect the government to be able figure that out? In which country? Not even China, one of the most oppressive and authoritarian governments in the world with the luxury of also being the world's factory, would be able to pull something like this off.



Basic income and planned economy, I'm sure. But of course... not Communism!
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That's the thing economists and epidemiologists are debating now most likely. Ideally we want to make sure we are prepared for future unexpected events like this; how it happens can take many forms.
 
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Djau said:
That's the thing economists and epidemiologists are debating now most likely.
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I don't really care what they're debating. They can get fucked if they think they're going to turn the United States into an authoritarian regime for the "greater good."

This fetishization of "experts" and desire to cede complete control to them is disgusting.
 
Zefah said:
I don't really care what they're debating. They can get fucked if they think they're going to turn the United States into an authoritarian regime for the "greater good."

This fetishization of "experts" and desire to cede complete control to them is disgusting.
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Then we need an educated populace.
 
Djau said:
Then we need an educated populace.
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You start, please, with an education in Civics.

edit: I'm assuming you're an American by the way, so please ignore if you're not.
 
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autoduelist said:
If we sat inside until the virus was starved of hosts we'd have mass famine and starve ourselves to death.

Voluntary social distancing and mask use will starve the virus. We already see this. But that doesn't mean we need to enact draconian restrictions on the populace when it's quite clear a solid chunk of the populace is using proper precautions.

Flattening the curve never meant people would never get corona. It meant slowing the uptick to avoid being overwhelmed. Mission achieved - we never ran out of beds or ventilators in NYC, our biggest hotspot. And that spread occurred before people took precautions.

Now everyone is aware. Most in densely populated areas are taking precautions. We likely will not have another NYC because of this, but even if we did, we have shown we are up for it.

But again, even with flattening the curve we always expected spread, just delayed. That is the entire point. It was never to starve it out entirely, because that is impossible, and if we ever thought we achieved that here we still wouldn't be able to travel out of country ever again.

There is a reason 1 year ago people sat together, despite the Spanish flu. There is a reason people screwed around, despite syphilis. There is a reason people went to sporting events despite the Black Death. It is because panic is temporary. We are in a state of panic, and many are being irrational.

There is a decent chance most people, or at least a large percentage of people, will get this before a vaccine is found. We need to protect our vulnerable. We need to monitor for hotspots and take corrective action when found. But we also need to be brave, and get this country kickstarted before famine or worse.

We need to be open. Hell, on the international stage it is a race to reopen, because any country which breaks under this pressure will lose footing.
Click to expand...
It's not impossible, and could have been done like Wuhan in just over a couple of months.

Obviously we wouldn't starve because a total quarantine is out of the question as some things would have to continue. and those people protected. But a mass quarantine with the bare minimum people quarantined going out for essentials is by far the most efficient way of dealing with it.

Those left infected at the end would be easily identified and treated/isolated. As much as I don't want to blow China's trumpet, they have already demonstratedhow to tame it. Yes they lied about lots of things, opening up now is a lot harder to hide

One other thing. You talk about not leaving the country. Bookmark this, because the borders are going to stay closed for a good while yet. No country is going to be taking risks once this has been contained. Travel between countries that does happen will be heavily monitored with mandatory quarantining for new arrivals. Until either a medicine has been found or a vaccine that works.
 
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Zefah said:
You start, please, with an education in Civics.

edit: I'm assuming you're an American by the way, so please ignore if you're not.
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I'm not american I don't have the same reverence for the U.S. Constitution. That doesn't mean I don't respect what it stands for. I work in healthcare; whatever makes countries globally more able to respond faster, harder and stamp out diseases easier but at the same time maintain the most amount of freedom with the minimal deaths is what is important to me.

Like I said before; Covid-19 is unfortunately going to be a test-bed for the future and how all countries in the world respond to rapid appearance of epidemics. Future diseases may be weaker or stronger than Covid. Once we reach Kowloon-levels of overpopulated cities it will not be as easy to control as Covid shows. We need to think about what is vital for basic survival needs and what contingencies to put in place to preserve this during future crisis.
 
Zefah said:
Can't low oxygen increase the chance of developing blood clots?
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Hm, i'm not doctor, but generally lung disease is not believed to be a risk factor for deep vein thrombosis. Aside from smoking, which puts you at risk due to its cardiovascular effects (heart)

edit: it looks like some new research is showing that hypoxia can lead to increased risk of clotting by decreasing protein S which is a natural anticoagulant here
 
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Djau said:
Government can examine the strictness of the lockdown as time passes and if food production is seriously affected food workers can be allowed back to work in full PPE. If people can't feed themselves then Government should step in.

What we really need before Lockdown opens back up is legislation put in to REALLY hit employers hard who aren't socially distancing their offices, providing full PPE, flexible time for sick leave (paid) and full plexi-glass to prevent aerosols. This is what should be getting talked about. We can safely open up once strict measures are put in place until Coronavirus is eradicated.
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These are good ideas and many are being put in place. If you go to the GA reopen thread in the politics board DeafTourette DeafTourette actually posted what business's have to go through to open up.

The problem is there is a group of people out there that even mentioning easing lock downs is locked at like you are suggesting marching people to Auschwitz.

Any government that isn't talking about how to exit these lock downs and get society back up and running in the safest manner possible is failing their populations. And these discussions should be happening. And instead of crying about bowling alleys the questions should be what is the bowling alley or hair dresser or grocery store going to do to keep its customers safe, and how much will it cost and how can we help off set those costs as much as possible.

I think you brought up some great points and wish some of these dummies in the press corps would ask these things to the POTUS instead of trying to get him with gotcha's.
 
cryptoadam said:
These are good ideas and many are being put in place. If you go to the GA reopen thread in the politics board DeafTourette DeafTourette actually posted what business's have to go through to open up.

The problem is there is a group of people out there that even mentioning easing lock downs is locked at like you are suggesting marching people to Auschwitz.

Any government that isn't talking about how to exit these lock downs and get society back up and running in the safest manner possible is failing their populations. And these discussions should be happening. And instead of crying about bowling alleys the questions should be what is the bowling alley or hair dresser or grocery store going to do to keep its customers safe, and how much will it cost and how can we help off set those costs as much as possible.

I think you brought up some great points and wish some of these dummies in the press corps would ask these things to the POTUS instead of trying to get him with gotcha's.
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This is exactly it. We need to be people-focused first.
 
Dr. John Campbell speculates a lot in his YouTube videos that Vitamin D may be a strong protector against this disease (and others) and he points out that deficiency rates are much higher among darker skinned people in the northern hemisphere.
 
My Grandmother has Corona and has been in the hospital for 20+ days at this point

Uncle experiencing same symptoms she did but he's much younger and fit obviously

I dunno what to think
 
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ManaByte said:
CIA asset grills an independent mayor for going against the narrative.
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Umm what?

Look, I'm all for opening things up, but it does need to be done in a smart way. Steps at a time. You can't just throw the lights in in Vegas and say party on. If they can limit capacity in the beginning and then start allowing more and more while they keep an eye on the infection/hospitalization rate.... then all the better
 
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God damn the press is retarted.

Oh my god stop telling us things will be OK we need to fear monger the people! We weren't fear mongering in our headlines we need to make people scared!
 
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