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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Sweden's hospitals are not being overwhelmed. What desired effect would a lockdown have for them?
Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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Sweden's hospitals are not being overwhelmed. What desired effect would a lockdown have for them?
Djau
Banned
Overall, much less deaths.
The Scrivener
Member
Sorry, I don't get it, as I've never played that game. Unless you're referring to dystopian stories, in which case see my edit referring to the newspaper article above, and note how we are living through this narrative now.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Again, based on what? Over what period of time?
Do you think you know better than the leaders in Sweden? (only throwing this back at you due to your praising of leaders whose approach you agree with)
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Djau
Banned
If the virus can't be stopped we still have to eventually open up from lockdown. The question remains if that happens is how do we best protect people while at the same time not ethically putting people into risk at work. The only way that will work is through PPE at work no matter what industry it is until the vaccine arrives at which point we can swap out PPE for the vaccine should the numbers be ok. The side effect to that is some form of database that tracks who has had the vaccine so that they can safely work will much less risk of death.
It remains to be seen if we will get to that point or if employers even care about their staff that much.
Long term, from the time between the start to the vaccine development.
Nope, I wouldn't say I do, I just don't believe its wise. I feel the non-herd immunity based stance is stronger that my country, the UK, took. The sad fact of corona is this episode will be a test bed for how to handle future RNA Virus epidemics.
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Kittehkraken
Member
A huge amount of people around the world are going to get fucked over regardless of what we do moving forward. Whatever keeps the hospitals afloat is what needs to be done. If that requires lockdowns, so be it.
Leyasu
Banned
COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)
coronavirus.jhu.edu
Here dude
The Scrivener
Member
Interesting. To be honest I don't think of the big answer to all this, because who am I? I'm a Regular Joe, and I'll die like one too, coronavirus or carcrash.
Probably this PPE option will be enforced until this time next year. Unless the media and the proles get bored and move on to another story and just go back to normal.
I see you're a believer in the lockdown option. I'm a believer in the no lockdown option, because I see a media scare more than a deadly virus (e.g. Trump's briefings vs. the journalist's questions). It's cool to see you're polite though! Peace.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The UK was originally going with the herd immunity/no lockdown approach, but that Imperial College model (not peer reviewed and now shown to be bullshit) came out and freaked the fuck out of everyone, which basically forced the government to change course.
Some also say that the NHS wouldn't have been able to handle the case load, so it might have been a good idea to do lockdowns. We'll see.
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Alebrije
Member
Without a vaccine if your body can not fight Corona you will die no matter if you have a ventilator and the best doctors.
So if health system has enought rooms you can have a diffirent apporach to handle tje virus. Most of countries are doing tje social distancing to have rooms for all the people that need them but people will die anyway if thier bodies can not win vs Corona.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's reasonable. Keeping hospitals able to function should be a big priority. So what do we do when it's clear that most hospitals are handling the load just fine and are not overwhelmed? What is the mechanism for easing up on lockdowns?
Djau
Banned
I don't look at it from left or right; I want to minimize human life loss as much as possible. Whatever causes that, is the correct option in my view. I'll let others worry about liberty and the economy.
That's because its unethical. Herd immunity approach means you accept you are sacrificing a very large number of people to get to that point.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sorry, but a lockdown approach means you are sacrificing a very large number of people, too, just perhaps not to Coronavirus. Every choice has consequences.
diffusionx
Gold Member
You're also just delaying the inevitable. I keep saying it, but even guys who engineered this lockdown, guys like Cuomo, said we are all going to get it eventually. In those terms, the only reason for the lockdown, THE ONLY reason, is to manage it so hospitals don't get crushed. But once you're past the point that is a risk, the lockdown doesn't make sense anymore.
Coronavirus Cases in NY Grow; Cuomo Says 40 to 80% Will Be Infected
The goal is to slow the number of cases at a given time.
www.ny1.com
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You're also just dealing the inevitable. I keep saying it, but even guys who engineered this lockdown, guys like Cuomo, said we are all going to get it eventually. In those terms, the only reason for the lockdown, THE ONLY reason, is to manage it so hospitals don't get crushed. But once you're past the point that is a risk, the lockdown doesn't make sense anymore.
Coronavirus Cases in NY Grow; Cuomo Says 40 to 80% Will Be Infected
The goal is to slow the number of cases at a given time.
Exactly. I think they are just politically paralyzed. If they start easing up on lockdowns, then people freak out because deaths aren't yet at 0. In the US, it also means you're siding with Trump and people know how triggering that can be. I think a lot of leaders entered these lockdowns with zero exit strategy and are now more worried about getting re-elected and can't figure out what to do.
Djau
Banned
Thats true. I believe Lockdowns will have the lesser body count while maintaining ethical integrity. Ultimately, we're at a loss of life either way as no country is evidently prepared for an epidemic.
The Scrivener
Member
I like your sentiment, but Bill Gates is on record last weekend on a CNN interview as saying his vaccine will make at least 700,000 suffer or die as a side-effect.
Also, the only way an individual can help at large is through their resources or their compliance. And this can lead to some serious problems too, which is why some Americans are protesting.
(Also, I saw this in a UK newspaper from 3 years ago, and yup, Bill doesn't have his fingers in this coronapie:
"I cross my fingers all the time that some epidemic like a big flu doesn't come along in the next 10 years, I do think we will have much better medical tools, much better response, but we are a bit vulnerable right now if something spread very quickly like a flu that was quite fatal – that would be a tragedy and new approaches should allow us to reduce that risk a lot."
How the hell can anyone believe this shitstick? He's a NWO nutjob, and we are truly fucked if that's the case.)
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Banning protests is not going to end well.
cosmic wizard
Neo Member
Captain Zyrain
Member
COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)
Here dude
If you click on "US MAP"
Bottom right has a graph, Confirmed / Deaths
Confirmed shows data for 4/20 as 783,400 cases.
Confirmed shows data for 4/21 as 801,700 cases.
+18,300
Their "world map" shows different numbers?
4/20 shows 784,300
4/21 shows 823,800
+39,500
Worldometers has the data as follows:
4/20 shows 792,795
4/21 shows 818,744
+25,949
I'd guess this was a delay in reporting instead of a large day/over/day increase in new cases. I guess we'll see, but all the counters seem to arrive at the same data. I know the day/time cutoff is different as well.
Chittagong
Gold Member
UK at 759 deaths today.
These deaths would now be infections that happened during the lockdown versus ones a few weeks back which were from prior the lockdown. What I can not wrap my head around is that how the lockdown is not reducing the deaths sharply. As the deaths keep hovering at that 700-800 ballpark, a similar amount of people seem to be getting infected now as prior to lockdown. How?
Assuming the death ratio stays constant surely far fewer people should be getting infected when many have literally no contacts. I am looking at City Road in London at 7PM on a Wednesday evening and can not see a single person walking. Surely that should mean that people are getting infected less.
These deaths would now be infections that happened during the lockdown versus ones a few weeks back which were from prior the lockdown. What I can not wrap my head around is that how the lockdown is not reducing the deaths sharply. As the deaths keep hovering at that 700-800 ballpark, a similar amount of people seem to be getting infected now as prior to lockdown. How?
Assuming the death ratio stays constant surely far fewer people should be getting infected when many have literally no contacts. I am looking at City Road in London at 7PM on a Wednesday evening and can not see a single person walking. Surely that should mean that people are getting infected less.
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Taxexemption
Member
I don't think it's a big deal. Sacramento as long as I remember doesn't have serious protests. Turnout is often low, and it's often the same people going to protest all the time. I'm surprised they got 500, but I wouldn't expect anything impressive to happen in Sacramento. What will be interesting to me is when speakeasies become more well known, and they start to crackdown on them.
If you want to play private bartender and sell liqour without a license, seems like a pretty great time to do that. And if the police do crackdown and you say you need the money or else you can't deal with this either socially or economically, I think there will be a lot of sympathy.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
A couple of things:
- Deaths take a while - it's perfectly possible that some of these are from before the lockdown
- We've not really properly locked down. I posted earlier about this but try going to Aldi some time and see if that feels like any kind of fucking social distancing. Public transport is also still running and is an excellent place to get infected.
Jooxed
Gold Member
Kittehkraken
Member
That's above my pay grade. But its obvious what works for one place isn't going to work for another.
Honestly, I expect most places to start opening back up without much in the way of a solid plan followed by another wave of lockdowns and even more frustration.
holygeesus
Banned
Who the hell is complaining about not testing everyone? The point is, you can't have completely reliable, scientific results on deaths, infection rates et al, unless you somehow managed that. You cant choose which figures are right when you feel like it. They are all unreliable and open to interpretation including numbers of deaths.
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CIA asset grills an independent mayor for going against the narrative.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
The UK updates here every afternoon just never give any positivity. Just continual bleakness. I miss my parents, not being able to visit them. And my daughter is asking where they are. FaceTime etc. Is not the same and she's very confused. I know I sound like a bleeding hearts club and it's a small sacrifice to make, but I am probably starting to struggle a bit with all this and am getting a bit of anxiety I'll never see my parents again. Sounds like our lives are never going back to normal even though that may be hyperbolic. I have no faith in a vaccine coming anytime soon. Haven't we never created a successful coronavirus vaccine?
Stay safe GAF
Stay safe GAF
HellforLeather
Member
I think there will be attempts at lockdowns but I dont think Americans will do it again. Unless there is some big missing data somewhere that suggests its more deadly or harmful than we currently think (most data right now seems to be swinging the other way) I just dont see people doing this again in a few months down the road.
Captain Zyrain
Member
HellforLeather
Member
Its difficult not to slip into despair sometimes but there is quite a bit of encouraging news coming out regarding progress of therapy treatments and the data is looking like there are orders of magnitude more people who have had this and passed it with no serious issues than we realize. The death and infection numbers can be overwhelming if thats all you look at.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Can you not do a drive-by to say hello? Chatting from the car to the curb should be fine and safe.
We've flaunted the rules a little bit out of necessity and no deaths yet.
I am very tired of this whole ordeal though. I think if I didn't have to work from home with everyone here too, it might be different. I envy the folks who are kidless and just get to watch netflix and game all day.
llien
Banned
That part is curious about Germany as well, people aren't really distancing, nor were they wearing masks (maybe 1 in 10 did), when I went to a grocery store a week ago. Shop workers (mostly young people) didn't seem to care about it either.
There could be something else behind relative success in Germany. Perhaps authorities are better at locating clusters/isolating.
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Jtibh
Banned
'Beyond insane'? Video of cops going after Australian 'rooftop drinkers' violating Covid-19 lockdown pushes people's buttons https://www.rt.com/news/486594-queensland-police-rooftop-video/
If one Australian journalist is to be believed, however, the story behind the video is more mundane and much less Mad Max. Melbourne-based journalist Tyson Whelan tweeted that the trio had broken into a construction site at night, and the police were responding to a report of trespassing, before detaining and fining them for violating social-distancing rules
lock2k
Banned
I definitely miss nature.
I've been contemplating moving to a beach city for years and this lockdown is really hard on me because I miss nature.
I don't really miss a lot of people because I'm a loner at heart, but damn, I miss the water, the ocean... the trees... the sand...
I'm studying a new field and I hope to find work soon and broaden my options to see if I can make a life change like that.
Leyasu
Banned
Don't look at the deaths. To get an idea of how effective the lockdown has been, you need to be concentrating on new infections
Chittagong
Gold Member
cryptoadam
Banned
What is the German situation with old age homes?
Where I live old age homes account for like 70% or more of the deaths.
Did you guys get any big scandals or were they well protected? Also workers in old age homes are very vulnerable so were they protected? One big step that we learned to late was not allowing people to work at multiple homes.
Its very possible that Germany is just overall much healthier and protected their old a lot better than other places.
cryptoadam
Banned
I said I supported the spirit of the protesters but not so much the execution, but I do think they need to slow their rolls a bit.
I get it they want to go back and some governors are extending their powers, but guys give it some time.
And also this means Trump has to deal with 100 brain dead questions about protesters instead of questions about theraputics and testing inovations.
I get it they want to go back and some governors are extending their powers, but guys give it some time.
And also this means Trump has to deal with 100 brain dead questions about protesters instead of questions about theraputics and testing inovations.
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Chittagong
Gold Member
The same seems to be true for other countries further down the road. Even after a long and severe lockdown the virus is churning a pretty consitent amount of deaths week in and week out. It's like it has a quota, lockdown be damned.
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