Fimbulvetr
Member
yoopoo said:
Actually there's a decent amount of Element Zero at the crash site.
It's mostly for fan service though.
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Mass Effect 2 |OT|
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Actually there's a decent amount of Element Zero at the crash site.
It's mostly for fan service though.
I went into the ending with everyone loyal. I still lost
and I have no idea why. I thought I did everything correctly. I picked
. The way I lost
Jack
Tali to go through the tube, Garrus to lead the other squad both times, and Miranda to be my biotic force field
Jack was at the end of the biotic forcefield part, the swarm snatched her before she got through the door.
yoopoo said:
The Citadel was gimped. What you see on your first visit is all you can visit.
Going back to ME1, I'm realizing that there really was only one city (the Citadel) in it. In ME2, they took about the same amount of space and split it between Omega, Ilium and the new Citadel stuff.
So I doubt there's really that much less "city" areas, it's just that it's split between multiple locations, so everything does feel smaller.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Going back to the Citadel would have been nice fan service but thats about it, at least for me. The mystical, wonderous image of the Citadel dies with the plot of Mass Effect, and I believe for intentional purposes to show the fragilaty of the location and the council.
And, in all, I dont want BioWare spending development time rebuilding old areas when those resources could be put towards new ones.
Patryn is right. While nowhere in ME2 feels anywhere near as large as ME1, there's more hubs. More hubs I felt like visiting multiple times, whether it be to buy, do a quest, look around, or listen to the chit-chat of the locals. Plus, in all, the felt far more lively to me.
For as big and packed as The Citadel was supposed to be, Omega felt more lively than both the Presidium and the Wards.
And, in all, I dont want BioWare spending development time rebuilding old areas when those resources could be put towards new ones.
Patryn is right. While nowhere in ME2 feels anywhere near as large as ME1, there's more hubs. More hubs I felt like visiting multiple times, whether it be to buy, do a quest, look around, or listen to the chit-chat of the locals. Plus, in all, the felt far more lively to me.
For as big and packed as The Citadel was supposed to be, Omega felt more lively than both the Presidium and the Wards.
Zzoram said:
You picked the wrong person for a job.
Why would you pick Miranda, who is an ok biotic user, over Samara/Morinth, who is considered one of the strongest Asari biotics or Jack, who beyond being a abnormally strong human biotic, was experimented on to make her that much stronger? It's the equivalent to picking Thane for the hacking part.
If you don't pick Samara/Morinth or Jack for that part, the biotic will fail, and someone will die.
For the record, the only valid options for the jobs are:
Team Leader (Either time): Miranda, Garrus or Jacob
Pipes: Legion or Tali
Biotic Field: Jack or Samara/Morinth
Escort: Anyone (Freebie)
Picking any non-listed person for any of these jobs will lead to deaths.
If you don't pick Samara/Morinth or Jack for that part, the biotic will fail, and someone will die.
For the record, the only valid options for the jobs are:
Team Leader (Either time): Miranda, Garrus or Jacob
Pipes: Legion or Tali
Biotic Field: Jack or Samara/Morinth
Escort: Anyone (Freebie)
Picking any non-listed person for any of these jobs will lead to deaths.
Wiggum2007
Junior Member
I really like the music so far, ME1 had a lot of orchestral stuff too in the more "epic" scenes, and there is a lot of synth stuff but I've really had to crank up the music volume, it's way too quiet in relation to the combat sounds and gets drowned out, compared to ME1 where on the default settings it was almost the other way around.
EatChildren said:
I completely disagree. Omega felt like a club, which the Citadel had too, and a handful of stands. There was no life to it. There were side conversations, and a few people you could talk to and maybe do a fetch quest for. The Citadel felt like an actual place, where you had tons of people that you could do varied quests for. And, most importantly, a fight could break out in the middle of any area. In ME2 there are combat zones and plot zones, and they never meet anywhere in the middle. You always need to be transported somewhere to make an event happen, which ruins a lot of the feeling of making it a real place.
Omega felt no more full of life than Noveria. None of the locations in ME2 feel like actual cities or colonies, they all serve one very specific purpose. This location is here so you can get a quest, this one is here so you can kill some dudes, this one is here so you can get shop. The Citadel felt like it was there because people lived and worked there.
edit: All of this stands in contrast to ME2 for me because after beating ME2 I went back and finished up a mostly complete save in the first game. Sure, I had passed or skipped the most tedious quests already, but I found myself much more engaged with that game. Even though I was running around just to start a new game in the sequel, I ended up spending a lot of time in the Citadel doing sidequests, running around and getting in conversations with meaningless characters. Instead of just hearing a background conversation, you got to interact with a lot more characters and that's where either game is at its best.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Archaix said:
Totally disagree with absolutely everything, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
Anso said:
You had to take elevators everywhere, but none of the locations that you took them to (speaking of the Citadel alone) existed for no reason other than combat.
An example: In Mass Effect 2 you have the quest
to protect the Krogan for Aria. You are given two choices: Say you can protect him and kill the guys without any actual fight, or send him off to die. In the first game if you chose to help him, a fight would break out in that room. It gave the conversations a different sense of urgency. I don't know that I encountered a single situation you could talk your way out of that wasn't clearly meant to be talked out of in the sequel. It was incredibly disappointing.
Archaix said:
The fight thing I can understand, I don't even disagree with you there. I just don't see where you got the idea that the Citadel had tons of varied quests as I thought most of them were pretty dull. And beyond this, Omega is not the central hub. In ME2 you had more cities and they all felt pretty alive to me, I especially appreciated what you could overhear.
The areas designed only for fighting are a bit of a bummer but I compare them to the planets you could visit in ME1 that were all the same design (no really, they were all the same design). That was really annoying to me, to get some quests done you had to be transported somewhere and it was designed specifically for fighting. *cough* If I had to choose, I'd pick ME2. And I still think Omega is more alive than Citadel, just more cramped too.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: your opinion is wrong, my opinion is right.
Mike G.E.D. said:
ME2's soundtrack was superior in my opinion just because it DID lack the overly epic feel of the first one. It felt more at home in the game than the score in ME1 did. To compare the soundtracks in a vacuum would be silly but in-game, ME2 rules in my opinion.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Omega was made for me thanks to how seamless the travel between areas were. Two levels to the club with different music, back lanes, an underground slum, a market, and the front.
It wasnt 'big' but it was populated, and each area felt very different. The seamless travel was aided by various sound effects, such as the bass thump from the clubs, getting louder or softer depending on where you were. Plus the chit-chat between NPCs really helped.
I liked the Citadel but was never, ever convinced it was as big and populated as the game made it out to be. The Presidium was huge, but felt empty, and the wards were hardly very big at all (I cant see them being bigger than the current wards in ME2, unless you count C-Sec).
I can understand the position on combat/non-combat quests in Mass Effect and the lack thereof in ME2, but I dont really think there were that many in the original, and I like the more lively feel of the new game.
And thanks to the loyalty quests I felt there was a reason to visit most hubs more than once, even if it did spawn you in a 'combat' area for the quest. In the original there was absolutely zero reason to re-visit anywhere other than the Citadel more than once, and even then you could do nearly every quest there on your first visit.
It wasnt 'big' but it was populated, and each area felt very different. The seamless travel was aided by various sound effects, such as the bass thump from the clubs, getting louder or softer depending on where you were. Plus the chit-chat between NPCs really helped.
I liked the Citadel but was never, ever convinced it was as big and populated as the game made it out to be. The Presidium was huge, but felt empty, and the wards were hardly very big at all (I cant see them being bigger than the current wards in ME2, unless you count C-Sec).
I can understand the position on combat/non-combat quests in Mass Effect and the lack thereof in ME2, but I dont really think there were that many in the original, and I like the more lively feel of the new game.
And thanks to the loyalty quests I felt there was a reason to visit most hubs more than once, even if it did spawn you in a 'combat' area for the quest. In the original there was absolutely zero reason to re-visit anywhere other than the Citadel more than once, and even then you could do nearly every quest there on your first visit.
Anso said:
I compared to Omega just because it had already been done, but I'd take the Citadel from the first game over every area combined in this game. I got lost in the Citadel, a lot. You know why? Because it felt like a real place that I wasn't used to. After you get the layout, it's easier to navigate. Every location in Mass Effect 2 exists for one reason: Because it had to be in the game. In the original game you had a lot of locations that had no business being in the game (I'm looking at you, bland planet with one warehouse bought from the Alliance Warehouse Warehouse) but you also had areas that felt like they were there because they had a purpose in the game world, not just a purpose in the game itself.
And I agree that many of the sidequests in the first game were dull, but they made the city feel more like a city. And not a single one of the optional sidequests that you can find is any more interesting than the first game's. They are far more simple and dull, to be honest. The missions are done well, and your characters loyalty quests are great, but those aren't sidequests, they are part of the main mission. What sidequest in ME2 was worth a damn? Running to two other planets to find packages for no particular reason? Solving the great mystery of "Which of these three stores within my direct line of sight have this guy's credit card"? The optional sidequests are no more interesting, there's just a lot less of them. The best parts of Mass Effect 2 as far as side characters were "Hey! I remember you! I helped you out in the last game. That was fun. Back when I got to help people, and do things. Well, guess I'm gonna go shoot some dudes. Later."
Archaix said:
Personally I enjoyed the focus on having more "main" quests. Keep in mind ALL of these loyalty quests are optional really. ME2's scan-a-planet sidequests that can appear are actually quite good, especially compared to ME1's similar quests. Do yourself a favor and scan some systems.
Taking down the mercenary bands are definitely a highlight of the N7 quests.
Maybe you want more varied quests and action in the cities and I want them outside the cities. Agree to disagree?
Even though your opinion is wrong :*
Nemesis_
Member
Anso said:
The N7 missions are great, but they are lacking soul like the ones in ME1 if you ask me. Little to no voice acting really ruins it for me. I loved tracking down Helena Blake's opposition Gangs so she could swoop in, and then flying in to meet her and either give her up to authority or profit off her business (only to run into her later on Omega, nice touch).
But yeah. It's so weird how everyone becomes so stoic during the N7 missions. Maybe this was more evident because I left them all until JUST BEFORE THE OMEGA RELAY so it made itself evident since I was piling them up, so to speak.
Anso said:
Scan a planet sidequests are the exact opposite of what I'm talking about. That's precisely illustrating the problem that I have with Mass Effect 2, in that everything is so disjointed and separate. There's no game world. There are a ton of different levels, many of them incredibly well done, but with no sense of cohesion whatsoever. Even within the worlds, one area has nothing to do with the next. Complain about elevators all you want, but I'd gladly take double the load times and elevators as long as I'm not constantly being taken out of the world and thrown magically into a new map.
Archaix said:
And my point is that you're playing in a galaxy, things ARE disjointed and separate. The galaxy IS the game world. Planets does NOT look the same. Mass Effect 2 is more character-focused and most quest that are good revolves around these characters, they also take place in the cities and are awesome. The way you actually revisit cities and get in contact with people with contacts in these cities MAKE it cohesive. You sound like you think side quests and a big city make the game world and NOT the main quests or other areas. It's a very odd stance in my opinion but I doubt I can change your mind or even make myself understood so I'll stop now.
I thought ME2 was much more cohesive than 1. In 2, every area felt lived in and utilitarian. The first game had a bunch of sterile environments with static characters constantly doing nothing but staring straight ahead. There isn't much more movement in the second game, but the environment designs make sense. Characters seem to have a purpose for standing around in certain areas. And the places themselves, structurally, have a point. There aren't a bunch of random huge, empty towers like there were on Feros or dozens of empty rooms like in the lab at Noveria.Archaix said:
90% of the "cohesion" in ME1 came from every sidequest looking exactly the same.
Anso said:
Things are disjointed and separate, but they should still be one experience for you. The first game's docking procedure is an example of why I think it's superior: You choose your location, and then you dock. You are still in your ship, and you need to walk to the door and choose your party. The computer announces that you are leaving and the XO is in charge while the world loads, then you leave the ship and walk to where you need to be. You might take an elevator, but you are still staring right at Shepard the whole time and you get what's going on. When you left your ship, you knew it was yours. You were the captain and the game reminded you that it is still there.
In the new game, it's all replaced by loading screens (not to say there's more frequent loading, it's just done as screens instead of in-game) and you never know how far you've gone, or where you are now. There's no point of reference to where you came from, and as a result you lose the feeling of being that character. You took a space car ride for god knows how long. Your ship is...I don't know. It's somewhere, in theory. Chances are you can't see it from where you are. There's no point of reference. What's going on with it? Not a damned thing, and this game goes out of its way to make sure you know that. If you aren't around, this world does not exist.
edit: An unrelated issue of how the game reminds you it is a game, rather than a world: The biotic characters. Jeff complained about this on the bombcast, and I'm sure others have also. You have these absolute monsters wrecking worlds with their powers and then as soon as they join you, they can't do a damned thing. There are two entirely unrelated worlds within one scene! There's the superhero that you see ripping robots in half and blowing holes in walls, and then there's the person who can shoot one warp bomb and then maybe do something again in ten seconds. At least in the first game you could be using 7 powers at once, each with its own recharge time. Yeah you were drained if you did that and might have to wait a minute to use more powers, but if the game had that kind of a system in it again at least biotic characters would appear to be a reasonable facsimile of the characters in the cut scenes. As it is, though, it's yet another reminder: You are playing a video game. You are not inhabiting a universe which has any logic to it. The way things happen is whatever would best serve what we are trying to do right now, at this very moment, and damn what comes next or came before.
I should also say this: I've spent nearly two full days playing Mass Effect 2 since it came out. If it was released a month earlier, it would have been a runaway for GOTY. It's just that I also feel that it's one of the most disappointing sequels imaginable in many ways to one of my favorite games of all time.
I disagree completely. I bought ME1 for $10 and still felt ripped off. Played through the game three times hoping that eventually it would "click" with me, but never had that happen. Poured 80 hours into it total, 1075/1200 gamerpoints. Never saw in it what made other people praise it as some messiah of western RPGs. Always thought quite the opposite.Archaix said:
That said, my expectations for the second game were quite high. It met and exceeded all of them, and stands as possibly my favorite game this generation. It's one of the best I've ever played, full stop. From start to finish it was an experience that set itself firmly apart from nearly every other game I've played by its implementation of good ideas. Loved it, and can't agree at all with the majority of complaints leveled against it.
It was relaxing? :lolNIN90 said:
The more I played the game the more I enjoyed it, but there were too many flaws for me to ever consider it in the same light that many here do. Plus that 80 hours was spread over about two years, it's not like I played some week-long marathon session or something.
And like I said, I kept coming back to it hoping I'd finally "get it."
I agree with that now, but I felt cheated the first time I played the game. I definitely got my money's worth in the end._Xenon_ said:
When did you guys get the Jack & Miranda fight? Is it the event after finishing Jack's personal mission? The only critical choice I had to make before the final mission is Legion & Tali's fight. Jack whined about Miranda being the leader but that's it. I never got any dialog choice. Everybody survived the mission anyway.
If a game can let you spend 80 hours on it, regardless how you feel about it, it's definitely worth $10.Crunched said:
ToyMachine228
Member
Just started up my second play through. Going to try to pick up the achievements I didn't get the first time around and get to side missions I didn't get to the first time and whatnot.
Crunched said:
As though it wasn't obvious enough that we have completely opposite opinions on what we want out of these games :lol
Personally I feel that Mass Effect was an incredibly flawed game. It had technical issues and some poor design choices, along with a few very easily fixable problems (if they just decreased the drop rate of items, for example, it would have been perfectly fine. Every enemy dropped something in that game and you picked it up automatically. That was the problem, it wasn't that there were item drops at all) and those really hurt the game. But everything else was absolutely perfect. I thought the story and characters were great, I loved the world, I totally bought into it. Even if it wasn't entirely original, it was as good as sci-fi has been done in a game. I am a fan of well done science fiction and I'm a fan of well done RPGs, and I think Mass Effect was as good as either have gotten on a game console.
Mass Effect 2 is a giant swing and a miss on almost everything that I loved about the fiction in the first game. It screams of trying too hard to be dark and edgy. The entire plot is absurd.
Zombie Shepard takes on the Reapers, who the council, even if formed by humans specifically to take down the reapers, deny existing.
the Collectors didn't have a leader with any character or personality of its own. I liked the species and how they were connected to the Reapers. I thought they were perfectly fine, if not as good as Saren and Sovereign.
Your team was also put through a filter of "gaming mature." With the exception of Garrus, whose change I think is fairly believable, the characters from the first game appear rewritten by somebody with the mentality of a 13 year old boy.
Liara the researcher is now in the black market, Udina is a raving lunatic instead of opportunistic politician, and Shepard is always a murderous asshole even if you play complete paragon.
The thing with the disagreements in this thread is that I understand why a person might want the game more like ME1, but I disagree. I didn't think any of the characters in ME1 had any personality and considered them all fodder. The writing and interaction in ME2 is a lot better to me, with the exception of a few boring characters (Jacob, Grunt, Samara). I had the same first impression of Jack as you did, but thought that she was really well developed by the end of her conversation sequences. I do agree about the changes withArchaix said:
Liara. Her
I also thought the antagonists here were much better done than Saren/Sovereign. I never liked Saren. Thought he was throwaway and could have been replaced with virtually any other high-profile character. His motivations didn't make any sense, and the way he changed his mind and committed suicide when Shepherd asked him to reconsider his stance was laughable IMO. The relationship between him and Sovereign was one I wish was explored further, but it's too late for that now.
Macmanus
Member
DennisK4 said:
I made all the right selections, yet my
Scientist-face
be in my final party
Also I'd imagine other people are letting their crews die because they don't obsess over this thread and forums in general and aren't aware of the repercussions of absent minded selections.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Solo said:
I love them equally but in different ways. I love the 3rd act of ME1 like crazy and I love the gameplay of ME2 like crazy. I also feel that they complete eachother. And playing on a character without having completed ME1 with it feels like playing in an alternate universe. Like Mass Effect 2 X.
Affeinvasion
Member
Solo said:
Give it a full year for the honeymoon effect to wear off and I think you might be surprised...especially in the OMG the grafix area. It wouldn't surprise me if GAF in the end favored the greater flexibility of RPG mechanics in the first one over the episodic and compartmentalized or streamlined (read: dumbed-down and limiting) sequel. Story wise it's not even close...ME2 is a great game in the Mass Effect universe but not a very good second part of a trilogy.
Inferno313
Banned
That didn't happen for me. I brought Garrus and Miranda to the final boss fight and he was fine.deim0s said:
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Ugh ugh ugh.
So I'm playing on Insanity for Playthrough 2. Have 80% Renegade and
but then for some fucking reason!
Now one of them bitches is unloyal and im fuuuu-
So I'm playing on Insanity for Playthrough 2. Have 80% Renegade and
calm down Jack and Miranda
when Legion and Tali fight I can't do anything! UGHHH
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