I'll take it.
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Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer |OT| Rich, deep online role playing
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
UpperCaseN
Member
I got a quarian infiltrator out of a veteran pack as well. no turians of any kind yet for me, though
valentine71
Banned
PM sent. I hope it works! Enjoy.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
It's very simple. In every game in which there are unlocks, designers have to decide how you get those unlocks and with what speed you get them. Let's take the multiplayer juggernaut Call of Duty for example. For each game, they've had to decide how you earn experience points and how quickly you unlock new weapons/items. Similarly, you unlock weapon attachments, strike packages, and those types of things. Fortunately, Activision has not resorted to paid unlocks, so the designers are simply able to gauge what the best playtime-to-reward strategy is in a vacuum, with no extraneous factors affecting them.
Now, look at Bioware's design of ME3's multiplayer. The whole thing was built on the premise of paid unlocks. The unlock system is random. It's very easy to get duplicates of items or to get items you have no need/interest in. You could spend 40 hours in the game, open 100 Spectre packs, and still not unlock everything.
The whole system is built on encouraging you to spend money for unlocks. What would the system have looked like without the paid unlocks in mind? Would Spectre packs have still cost 60k in credits? Would you only get 35k in credits after beating Silver? Would unlocks be totally random? Would you be able to pull 10 levels of a sub-par shotgun from a pack? Would you be unlocking the same alien race and class multiple times and only get appearance bonuses for each? All these things have to be put in question when Bioware's motive is generating more profit rather than providing the best possible experience.
Obviously the "best" game design is subjective anyway. Maybe some designers would have done exactly what Bioware chose to do even without paid unlocks motivating them, I don't know. I doubt it, though. In my opinion, the ME3 multiplayer is not as good as it could have been if Bioware had been more focused on giving gamers a great experience rather than maximizing profit.
Alright, that's it. I'm done. Rebut if you'd like, but no further questions. I've said enough and polluted this thread too much as it is.
It is possible to reach the best ending by only playing singleplayer. It's also possible to get all achievements without ever touching the multiplayer.
razgriz417
Member
Truth. I came here trying to get info on builds and get people to play together, not argue/bitch about the microtransactions. If you don't like it, don't buy it?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, if that's changed since the first week of responses from fans, so be it. That was what was being reported by fans across the internet...before people started bitching about the ending. I stopped visiting those threads since I'm not done with SP, and after people start complaining about an ending...spoilers are bound to happen.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Holy crap, did I see Hitler and Pol Pot mentioned on the last page of this discussion? I don't want to click back, in case I did.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Future DLC characters. Hitler is a Sentinel. Pol Pot is an Infiltrator.
Got another lobby where everyone had mics and talked. Helped 2 guys beat their first gold match. They wanted to switch to silver at the beginning and didn't think they could do it. Feels good man!
QI is uncommon. You should be able to get all the characters in veteran pack but rare (gold) only seems to come up about 10% of the time in my experience. If you're just looking to get an uncommon character, veteran packs are probably better since you can get 3 of them for the price of 1 spectre.
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Multiplayer#Pack_Contents
QI is uncommon. You should be able to get all the characters in veteran pack but rare (gold) only seems to come up about 10% of the time in my experience. If you're just looking to get an uncommon character, veteran packs are probably better since you can get 3 of them for the price of 1 spectre.
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Multiplayer#Pack_Contents
walbertsmith
Member
Yikes.. ok, where to begin..
Ok, picking COD's system is the worst possible comparison. It's not even a co-op game, for one. If ME3's system existed in COD it would absolutely be unfair. Why? Because you compete with other people. You compete with the other side by shooting them in the head and you compete with teammates for the leaderboard. Absolutely someone would have an unfair advantage with a purchase system.
The next reason it's a terrible comparison is because most of the best unlocks are skill-based. Like get 50 headshots, or shoot down 10 air support. This system heavily favors those with more Time than anyone else... and that's it.
Third reason why it's an uneven comparison? The unlocks aren't even random. It's not like you get 10 headshots then the system rolls the die on what kind of SMG you unlock. There are a million games out there that have random loot structures and you pick COD?
Agreed with everything, except for the premise of "paid unlocks." No, this is not true at all and you agreed with it in your previous posts as well. You. Don't. Have. To. Spend. Money. To. Get. Stuff. That is irrefutable. If you can invest Time, you can unlock the same things the next person unlocks with Money. How is that a difficult concept to comprehend?
Why are you talking about pricing? Isn't your entire argument that the system is broken because of the existence of paid unlocks? And even if the system had no paid unlocks, that's fine... because countless other games have used the same system. Instead of getting your loot after you kill an enemy, you get it at the end of the round. I've said this before.
And you never addressed the fact that Bioware can achieve BOTH of these at the same time. Yes, it's more than possible to make money while ensuring your customer is happy. By including this option, you actually widen your customer base. If the system only rewarded Time, then you're cutting out that person who works 14 hour days, or has two kids in soccer practice, or travels for their job. These people would have less incentive to play a game where they have to grind out hours just to be on the same playing field, because they physically can't invest those hours with their lifestyle. So if Bioware can reach those customers and make them happy while making money for themselves... isn't that a win/win situation?
How is other people getting these unlocks through money affecting YOUR game experience? Again, ME3's coop system is absolutely perfect for this Time-or-Money unlock system. If it means that random you're playing with has a Black Widow instead of a Mantis (because he could only invest Money, not Time) then it helps YOU, because you have that much more chance of beating that round. What if he ends up scoring more than you? That's fine, because you get the same amount of XP and credits. And if he unlocks a Geth Pulse Shotgun in his Spectre pack that he bought? That's fine, because it has zero bearing on your chances of getting the same thing. There is absolutely ZERO drawback on playing with others that have great equipment, and in fact there's ONLY tangible benefits. Having a paid Spectre pack system actually FEEDS into this coop system because if your teammates have the best stuff (regardless of how they acquired it) it helps YOU.
Just another case when you choose to nitpick against something without looking at the whole.
That's your prerogative. I have no issues compromising or backing down when given legitimate evidence (like the person that challenged me on how the game educates you on the different packs), but I have yet to see you provide any legitimate counterpoints.
Ok, picking COD's system is the worst possible comparison. It's not even a co-op game, for one. If ME3's system existed in COD it would absolutely be unfair. Why? Because you compete with other people. You compete with the other side by shooting them in the head and you compete with teammates for the leaderboard. Absolutely someone would have an unfair advantage with a purchase system.
The next reason it's a terrible comparison is because most of the best unlocks are skill-based. Like get 50 headshots, or shoot down 10 air support. This system heavily favors those with more Time than anyone else... and that's it.
Third reason why it's an uneven comparison? The unlocks aren't even random. It's not like you get 10 headshots then the system rolls the die on what kind of SMG you unlock. There are a million games out there that have random loot structures and you pick COD?
Agreed with everything, except for the premise of "paid unlocks." No, this is not true at all and you agreed with it in your previous posts as well. You. Don't. Have. To. Spend. Money. To. Get. Stuff. That is irrefutable. If you can invest Time, you can unlock the same things the next person unlocks with Money. How is that a difficult concept to comprehend?
Why are you talking about pricing? Isn't your entire argument that the system is broken because of the existence of paid unlocks? And even if the system had no paid unlocks, that's fine... because countless other games have used the same system. Instead of getting your loot after you kill an enemy, you get it at the end of the round. I've said this before.
And you never addressed the fact that Bioware can achieve BOTH of these at the same time. Yes, it's more than possible to make money while ensuring your customer is happy. By including this option, you actually widen your customer base. If the system only rewarded Time, then you're cutting out that person who works 14 hour days, or has two kids in soccer practice, or travels for their job. These people would have less incentive to play a game where they have to grind out hours just to be on the same playing field, because they physically can't invest those hours with their lifestyle. So if Bioware can reach those customers and make them happy while making money for themselves... isn't that a win/win situation?
How is other people getting these unlocks through money affecting YOUR game experience? Again, ME3's coop system is absolutely perfect for this Time-or-Money unlock system. If it means that random you're playing with has a Black Widow instead of a Mantis (because he could only invest Money, not Time) then it helps YOU, because you have that much more chance of beating that round. What if he ends up scoring more than you? That's fine, because you get the same amount of XP and credits. And if he unlocks a Geth Pulse Shotgun in his Spectre pack that he bought? That's fine, because it has zero bearing on your chances of getting the same thing. There is absolutely ZERO drawback on playing with others that have great equipment, and in fact there's ONLY tangible benefits. Having a paid Spectre pack system actually FEEDS into this coop system because if your teammates have the best stuff (regardless of how they acquired it) it helps YOU.
Just another case when you choose to nitpick against something without looking at the whole.
That's your prerogative. I have no issues compromising or backing down when given legitimate evidence (like the person that challenged me on how the game educates you on the different packs), but I have yet to see you provide any legitimate counterpoints.
Major Williams
Member
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Dude, just stop. You're wrong, move on. I've consistently pointed out the flaws in your arguments, and you ignore them every time. I said I'm done with this bullshit, it's time to move on yourself, son. I can't keep rehashing the same talking points that go right over your head.
walbertsmith
Member
I picked apart every single one of your last several points with detailed arguments and you consistently avoid every single one of mine. Let me know where the "flaws" in my arguments are, and I'll show you a counterpoint that I already typed.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Geth Pyros are so dumb. Just hide behind cover, wait for them to come to you and one hit melee QTE kill. So easy.
UpperCaseN
Member
wait, really? you just punch em to death and there's no danger?
If an enemy walks up to the other side of cover you're crouching behind, you can hit the melee button to pull them over and OHKO them. Obviously doesn't work on the big enemies, but it works fine on Geth Pyros.
Just a combo where you use a biotic power to infect an effect on the enemy, then another to cause it to detonate
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Biotic_Explosions
I assume Tech Burst is the same. but for tech powers (Overload-> Incinerate)? not sure XD
walbertsmith
Member
Yeah, a tech burst is a combination of tech powers (like Overload and Sabotage), while biotic explosions are a combination of biotic powers (like Stasis and Warp). These are always ideal because they explode (damaging others nearby) as well as dealing massive damage to the original target.
However, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, certain powers from the two types can combine to detonate right? With the type (either tech burst or biotic explosion) being whatever the first power used is? In other words, using Overload on an enemy that was Pulled first will be a biotic explosion (not sure if that combo works, just an example).
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Warp into Throw does Biotic explosion. I think Cryo freeze or w/e it's called into Incinerate combos as well.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Hey guys,
I know some of you are BOUND to have explored the granular minutiae of success in silver/gold based on maps and opponents. It can't be as easy as "stick together"--so where is this intense breakdown!?!
Thanks,
A concerned citizen.
I know some of you are BOUND to have explored the granular minutiae of success in silver/gold based on maps and opponents. It can't be as easy as "stick together"--so where is this intense breakdown!?!
Thanks,
A concerned citizen.
electricpirate
Member
Here's a tech burst list I found on Gamefaqs, most of it follows with my experience.
The "Tech burst" can create a pretty insane chain reaction, and can stagger 4 or 5 guys if they are bunched up. Great for crowd control, especially if you have a multi shot overload already going off, you can easily damage and stagger 5-6 guys at once.
SECONDED. I can do well up to level 10, but then we get swamped, trapped and killed. Even using both rockets and saving all my other gear set up properly, I just watch my team hopelessly flail around. Last time I tried I personally killed 4 banshees and 2 brutes with rockets before I got pushed from the main group and swamped by the shielded dudes.
The "Tech burst" can create a pretty insane chain reaction, and can stagger 4 or 5 guys if they are bunched up. Great for crowd control, especially if you have a multi shot overload already going off, you can easily damage and stagger 5-6 guys at once.
SECONDED. I can do well up to level 10, but then we get swamped, trapped and killed. Even using both rockets and saving all my other gear set up properly, I just watch my team hopelessly flail around. Last time I tried I personally killed 4 banshees and 2 brutes with rockets before I got pushed from the main group and swamped by the shielded dudes.
That discourages spending excessive money on it. You'd have a point in this whole tunnel vision thing you've got going on about the subject if, in fact, they offered differentiation between paid and 'in-game' packs, where paid would only unlock new things. They don't. Your entire premise of it being made that way specifically to encourage purchases is based on nothing but your single-minded desire to MAKE it based on that. You have no proof at all, and your ranting actually makes it seem less desirable to spend real money on random packs.
There are carrots and sticks in nearly every multiplayer component to games these days. It's not to get you to spend money, it's to get you to keep playing.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
That sounds awesome. But let me get this straight, my sentinel has overload (specced to jump targets) and warp--so if I overload a dude, I can just use warp on them and it'll zap the shit out of them AND the explosion will chain to the dudes around them?
Woo-Fu
Banned
There is no competition in this game. The only metric tracked is time played.
I do get a kick out of people complaining about pack prices, as if they have any data whatsoever to make a valid analysis with. If you think the packs are too expensive in terms of credits play some other game where you can achieve your goals with less effort. Go try World of Tanks, you'll be writing 5 page editorials after the first week.
The random nature of the packs makes anybody with even a smidgin of self-control realize that spending real money on them is a bad idea. Makes it pretty obvious that option was just added for the people who have more money than either brains or time.
walbertsmith
Member
One tip: Learn the spawn points. Don't always run to the same spot every time; if you learn where they spawn, you can camp those spots and pick them off one by one. However, the game does seem to detect where players are and tries to spawn *away* from those points... and sometimes it doesn't matter. For example, the white map in the demo. If you're sitting right in the landing pad they can still spawn, but if you're on the opposite corner (near those two walkways that no one uses) then they tend not to spawn in that room. So what I'll sometimes do is wait in the corner next to the ammo box outside, that overlooks both the corner with the walkways and the main walkway. Then when enemies spawn you have a perfect vantage point to pick them off individually as they walk out of either room entrance. These are the points you want to be at: close enough to take them out one by one, but far enough away for them to actually spawn there.
I like to split up from the group and take out stranded enemies. I guess some people dislike that because I won't be around to pick up downed allies, but constantly reviving allies in the middle of brutes, banshees, cannibals, and marauders all shooting at one spot is pointless.
electricpirate
Member
Yea, that's a pretty big thing in earlier waves, how about when you have to move to hit objectives? Do you take position, take out the first wave, then proceed? Or do you try to move as a group to targets/devices?
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Ya, and this is why I can be successful on "White"--you've got good vantage to the spawns and it's almost like playing Tower Defense picking them off before they get up. But when it comes to the wandering objectives...?
electricpirate
Member
I haven't seen it with biotics, but with incinerate it works like a charm. Not a huge damage boost, but it throws a group of enemies into total disarray.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Okay, decay can kiss my fucking working, grown man, hirsute ass.
You get punished for having a life outside of ME3? What the fuck is this shit?????
You get punished for having a life outside of ME3? What the fuck is this shit?????
Thanks for this. Looks like I'll be using my disruptor ammo w/ my engie class from now on. I've gotten some crazy tech burst chain reactions too. My favorite is when 3-4 geth hunters pile up and I get a good energy drain on them then blow them up with incinerate
This happens a lot less on gold which is why I kind of prefer it. On bronze and silver, the waves are easy until the end so people just go off on their own wrecking stuff and lose all team concept. Running around messes up spawns too and makes each wave completely unpredictable which becomes problematic later on.
walbertsmith
Member
For objective waves, it's a crapshoot. I base that decision on if I'm a class that is reasonably sturdy on its own (like human vanguard or any infiltrator). If that's my class then ill try to be a bit separate so i can hit the objective immediately... Especially if it's the one with 4 disarms, as that one can be a BITCH if your team isn't near the first one (and is near a spawn point). Separating from your team early lowers the chance that it's a spwan point the AI uses.
I like 2 and 2. 2 people move to objective and the other 2 hold down the area you were holding before. The thing with objective rounds is enemies will stop spawning after you finish the objective so it is in your best interest to finish it ASAP. One person dying isn't a huge deal since there will be less enemies than other waves after you finish the objective.
If I'm playing infiltrator usually I'll have 3 people hold down the area and I'll just sprint to the objective, cloak, and get it. If I'm salarian engie I'll be the 2nd person and usually follow the infiltrator that is getting objectives with decoys or just sit in a choke and keep a large group of enemies busy with my decoy.
The Xtortionist
Member
Dude you only need like 75% plus it's super easy to fill it up.
It's like one percent a day.
This is another instance where Turian Sentinel can shine. Get a high RoF weapon, Incendiary ammo and spray a crowd down. Chain bombs are great.
Extracting from the Reapers is a huge pain in the ass. I wish i could carry more than 3 cobra missiles. I'm up to 4 ammo packs! Hooray :\
Long story short. Pick Infiltrator.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
It's more than that. I got up to eat dinner at one point, came back and it was 99% (from one hundred).
I think it's more like 3-5% per day.
(Not making a "this is/is not a game breaking issue" statement here, just pointing out observations.)
It's been consistently 1% a day decrease for me, I keep tabs on it via the iPhone app, it even shows decimal values (98.11% etc.). One Bronze game increases it by 3%, its very easy to keep elevated.
Anybody having problem joining friend's game on Origin tonight? It was working fine last night but now I can't play with my friend. We both get stuck to "Joining game..." and have to do Alt-F4 to quit. That is one person create a private game and invite the other...
Anybody?
Anybody?