UnluckyKate
Member
... Human Vanguard it is then
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Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer |OT| Rich, deep online role playing
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
... Human Vanguard it is then
Woo-Fu
Banned
You can really tell who read the patchnotes and who hasn't, lol. People still acting like quarian inf vs. geth is the thing.
Using the popular build you don't even fire a gun as a vanguard, at least in bronze/silver.
Using the popular build you don't even fire a gun as a vanguard, at least in bronze/silver.
3rd Krogan soldier, 4th Krogan Sentinel...not a single drell insight fml i know that feel bro
walbertsmith
Member
Try just rolling with the shotgun. If you built Charge/Nova properly, you can use two Novas in between every Charge, basically allowing one to power the other in perpetuity. (Using Nova makes you invincible, and the animation is fairly lengthy, giving your Charge more time to cooldown).
Only times not to use this combo are against Banshees and full health Turrents.... and try to stay at the furthest range of Nova against OHKO enemies like the Atlas and Brute.
UnluckyKate
Member
Geth shotgun is still broken op as in ME2 ? If yes, then drop the assault rifle
Edit : also, third Scimitar upgrade (+1) in a row in a veteran pack....
I always avoided Human Soldier, didn't find it to be interesting, but concussive shot can be really useful to support teammates by giving them some breathing room. Once specked it has recharge time of only 1.6 seconds (with Mattock for example), which is pretty darn fast for spamming enemies and knocking them down on the floor. It can really work well especially well on some annoying Cerberus units like Guardians and Phantoms also.
razgriz417
Member
Someone on the bsn suggested that it's best to spend credits and get a ton of Recruit packs (1 spectre = 12 recruit packs), maxing out alot of those common weapons and mods will make it so that they wont show up in veteran and spectre packs. If you're suppose to get say another scimitar in your veteran pack but you already have a scimitar X, you'll still get a common item, but it'll be something else from the common pool (ammo,weapon mods or another common weapon you haven't maxed?). Pretty sure this'll help your chances in the long run. I find that for sniping, Mantis X is a great substitute for the Widow (assuming the Widow isn't at lvl 10).
As for guns, I've been keeping tabs of this thread and generally agree with their rating of the guns
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9526427/1
walbertsmith
Member
That's... a fantastic freaking suggestion. Thanks for sharing.
Dreamer RD
Member
Finally got Krogan sentinel. But Human Vanguard is still my fav char. Beasting with charge/nova. Quarian Infiltrator is also very good, especially against Geth. Had no luck on Gold with retarded "one man army" randoms.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'll definitely give this a try next time around. I'm looking for a class that requires a little more thought; Human Engineer is fun to play, but it's basically just spam the appropriate power (Overload or Incinerate as necessary) and load the enemy up with bullets from my gun.
walbertsmith
Member
Yeah, the Drell is perfect for that then... you need to use all your powers constantly, on top of learning the best times to use each of them.
I got bored using the Turian Sentinel for the same reasons as you.
What? All the damage from Charge and Nova comes from melee range too...
In similar fashion, you could forget about charging at big enemies with one-hit kills. You can definitely melee big enemies to death. Start punching a Banshee when she loses her biotic power-up state or when she's throwing out a projectile at someone else.
Pick off stragglers? Rage lasts for 30 seconds which is more than enough time to punch 3-4 Geth Primes to death. If all that remains are the big enemies, 100% melee damage boost from Fortification alone will be sufficient.
The Vanguard can also play with a ranged style to keep it out of danger. Spam Shockwaves and use their gun. It's a part of their kit, just like Carnage and Grenades are in the Krogan Soldiers, so I don't see why only the Krogan Soldier is being evaluated based on his entire kit while the Vanguard is only evaluated by two of his three powers. Seems like class bias to me.
Biotic Charge/Nova combos is, IMO, low risk/high reward relative to a melee Krogan Soldier. I've already explained why in an earlier post so I won't bother saying it again.
UnluckyKate
Member
Got my second Quarian infiltrator today. I was about to rage and then I realized it gave XP to my current character. So you can boost character like this... Nice. Character drop are never useless then.
Isn't Shockwave largely useless, and in some cases (depending upgrade choice) broken?
A Vanguard playing ranged style completely undermines the very concept of the Vanguard, which was intended to be a close quarters combat specialist. If you were planning on using guns and shockwave, you'd be better off picking an adept.
The Krogan Soldier has more versatility in this respect because his skillsets can be tailored multiple ways and yield more benefits to gun usage. The issue that I have with a Krogan Soldier being classified as "high risk/high reward" is the "high reward" part. The damage you do when attempting something risky doesn't really yield a high reward.
Nova's not really melee range. It's an area effect, hitting multiple targets with a decent radius (especially if upgraded).
I agree that Biotic Charge/Nova is low risk/high reward on Bronze. You can still get dropped on Silver if you're not careful. If someone kills a target that you needed to charge to, for example, you can die instantly.
and customization i think.
walbertsmith
Member
Yes... that's the point. Charge/Nova are both close-range skills, meaning the Vanguard is *always* in close range. The Soldier can choose when to engage, while the Vanguard is *always* in close range.
I never said Charging at enemies results in a one hit kill... just that you can *solo* them with a Vanguard. You can try meleeing a Brute or Atlas and what will it get you? OHKO. Melee a Phantom? OHKO. You mention punching a Banshee, but how many melees will it take? She's not going to keep throwing out projectiles at someone else if you're next to her, and if your Rage runs out, then you become that much more vulnerable. Soloing big enemies with the Krogan is a far less successful endeavor than with the Vanguard.
I notice you picked Geth Primes, which don't have a OHKO ability. Try taking out a pair of Brutes or Atlas or a group of Phantoms next to each other and the Krogan will get SMOKED. Again, my original point of Vanguards being more useful in more situations applies here. Higher reward and all that.
Yes, I focused on the whole kit for the Krogan because all of its skills are relevant in all situations (note how none of skills use the same cooldown, except when you pulse the armor, rendering Carnage unusable).
And what's the point of playing at range with the Vanguard again? To even use Shockwave means you're not in range for Nova, and you're preventing the use of Charge. But then if you use Charge/Nova you're not in the proper range for Shockwave. My analysis of both classes were with Silver/Gold in mind, which is where any deficiencies in the build become magnified. If you build for Shockwave with your Vanguard, then you will *not* be successful in Silver/Gold as one specced solely for Charge/Nova.
And you're discounting the fact that Nova is powered by your shields. Yes, Charge gives you full shields back, and therein the synergy lies. But in Silver/Gold, you WILL lose your shields often before using your second Nova, and before your Charge becomes available. When that happens, you have to HOPE a target is available to Charge, and isn't hiding behind cover, or obscured by smoke, or dies before your cooldown comes back. THAT is where the risk lies with Charge.
I also see that you ignored all the *high reward* benefits from Charge/Nova; namely constant shield recharge and knocking enemies down. You can floor entire groups of enemies with this, and the Krogan has nothing anywhere close to the area-clearing benefits of Nova. We can debate about which class is higher-risk all day but there is no question the higher rewards come from the Vanguard.
UnluckyKate
Member
Yes, I had the second color enable
*mashes head against desk*
Playing gold with randoms can be extremely frustrating. As host I really wish I could kick people without doing the vote thing. I've had to abandon several lobbies entirely because someone isn't joining in with the vote kick. For instance, if you get 2 low level players joining into a gold server and they refuse to leave, then there's nothing you can do.
Of course, the biggest problem are people who play really badly (usually runs off alone and get themselves killed) and people who ragequit early on. I just played a gold match where one guy left in the first wave, one guy was afk half the match, and me and the final guy actually managed to each wave 10 by ourselves. If we had 2 active other players, beating the mission wouldn't have been a problem.
If anyone is looking for someone to help out with matches (preferably gold), send me a friend request on origin (I'm "Tzar Sectus"). I usually play as infiltrator and I feel like I can handle gold difficulty pretty well, until people start ramboing that is.
Playing gold with randoms can be extremely frustrating. As host I really wish I could kick people without doing the vote thing. I've had to abandon several lobbies entirely because someone isn't joining in with the vote kick. For instance, if you get 2 low level players joining into a gold server and they refuse to leave, then there's nothing you can do.
Of course, the biggest problem are people who play really badly (usually runs off alone and get themselves killed) and people who ragequit early on. I just played a gold match where one guy left in the first wave, one guy was afk half the match, and me and the final guy actually managed to each wave 10 by ourselves. If we had 2 active other players, beating the mission wouldn't have been a problem.
If anyone is looking for someone to help out with matches (preferably gold), send me a friend request on origin (I'm "Tzar Sectus"). I usually play as infiltrator and I feel like I can handle gold difficulty pretty well, until people start ramboing that is.
If you're going to use guns, then a Human Soldier has a far better kit for that than the Krogan. Just compare Adrenaline Rush with Fortification; one has the option of about 20-30% damage reduction or 100% melee damage boost, while the other has health and shield bonuses, instant 50% shield recharge, instant ammo reload, weapon damage buff, and only 50% melee damage buff.
As for versatility, Carnage and grenades do ranged damage. Guess what also does ranged damage and every Vanguard entering a mission must bring with them? A gun.
Biotic Explosions and Throw specced for it is ranged AoE. Nova is melee/close-range AoE.
I find the ability to kill most enemies in one melee to be pretty high reward.
Yeah, I've soloed big enemies with OHKO as a Vanguard but charge is pretty much needed to power Nova. Guess what charging at a Banshee opens you up to? The same thing that comes with trying to melee a Banshee with the Krogan; a chance for OHKO.
I didn't ignore those "high reward" benefits of knockdown/shield recharge from Charge/Nova. I just designated them to help with the low risk nature of the combo. You say the Krogan has no AoE knockdown which is the same reason why I'm saying the Krogan is higher risk than the Vanguard. Charge at a group of normal enemies and Nova as a Vanguard. You get two instances of AoE knockback/down and stun; that's quite a bit of time of safety for you to attack. You don't get the same safety when you charge into the same group as a Krogan.
I'm pretty sure our definition of "high reward" are conflicting so whatever. I don't have the time to carry on this type of discussion, especially when it's about a co-operative, non-competitive gametype.
It enables it for all your characters in that class, too.
I spec'd out my unused human male vanguard for the charge + nova tactic and it does work well. You need people to have your back, though, or a ton of medi-gels, if you are playing silver or higher. Seems like the vanguard is least effective against the geth. You can only charge and then double nova so many times before someone gets a shot in on you and throws off your nova, and then you're toast because of those damn pyros. I also need to learn to make smarter choices sometimes. Like, don't charge a cerberus turret.
I also respec'd my SP vanguard for charge + nova. Much more fun to use the vanguard now. I had been avoiding nova because I didn't know how to use it properly, but now that I get the strategy, I love it.
walbertsmith
Member
Yes, and I've said this in a post to someone else; the only situations that Charge/Nova shouldn't be used are against Banshees and full health Turrets. That's it. It can stand up on its own in far more situations than the Krogan... that's high reward.
And Nova strips your shields... suddenly all those pew-pew weak guns from foot soldiers become incredibly dangerous. And you say there's "quite a bit of safety" for you to attack? Newsflash: Not everyone that's dangerous is in melee range. With auto-aim Nemesis sniper rifles to Ravager missiles to Rocket trooper rockets to Phantom hand cannons... ALL these long range attacks are potentially OHKO when you're draining your own shields to hit melee range enemies. But when a Krogan rages? Guess what, it gets *more* damage reduction. Yes, you have to kill them one at a time... but you're *more* protected from all the long range attacks when you do so (nevermind the fact that the shields and life on a Krogan are FAR higher than the vanguard). They are both high risk classes; different types of risk, sure, but both are high risk all the same.
How are our definitions of "high reward" different? You have yet to provide an example that can compare with Charge/Nova's best rewards... I'm more than willing to hear them.
razgriz417
Member
Empty Space
Member
Do you mean the AoE one? Only Asari have it. If you mean the heavy melee punch that replaces the omni blade for biotics no its still there.
Dreamer RD
Member
So true. Kicking system here is awful yeah. I laughed my ass off when a friend created session and then got kicked out of it after 2 min inactivity.
Feel free to send me an invite whenever you see me on; I'm usually playing with randoms 99% of the time.No problem at all! Was fun playing, thank you!
the heavy melee, nevermind it was bugged for one game, i can use it now.
Boombloxer
Member
Yea, I played with a few friends last night, and the Krogan soldier is basically the Hulk if played correctly. He went down twice total out of 7 matches, we nearly beat one with just two of us before the rest of the squad got on.
Currently a Human Infiltrator, but I unlocked Quarian and Drell last night, so I'll probably play with those soon. Thinking about switching classes to Vanguard or Engineer.
You can add me to the PS3 list: princeakuma23
Woo-Fu
Banned
They're useless for any class left at 20.
walbertsmith
Member
Yeah the Vanguard is awesome. It's not as simple as just Nova Nova Charge tho... here's some tips:
- As much as possible, try to lead with NOVA, not charge. Yes, they'll be shooting at you while you're running, but don't run in a straight line and use angles as cover while you run up to them. Nova is your primary offense, Charge is your "get out of jail" card. Learning to lead with Nova is very important but can be a hard habit to break. I only lead with Charge if I have to cross multiple planes or to cover distance quickly. One example: on the brown base from the demo, if you head right to the corner, there's that long sightline all the way down that enemies spawn from. I will run that entire distance (and use the pillars for cover) instead of Charging in first. This also allows you to survey the situation first before Charging headfirst into an area that may have like a hidden Turret or something.
- Space out your Novas. After your Charge, don't always immediately jam on Nova. Both skills stagger enemies so learn the rhythm on when to use the next one in line. For an example, next time you fight a Geth Pyro do this: Charge then immediately Nova. The second Nova will hit it while it's still staggering, doing damage but not causing another stagger (letting it recover and hit you while you do your second Nova).
Then for the next Pyro, Charge, shotgun blast, Nova. If the timing's right, your Nova will stagger him again right as he comes out of his first stagger, rendering you safe from harm. The Nova/Nova timing is extremely quick though, and if I'm not facing him directly sometimes I'll just wait to use the second Nova instead of trying for the shotgun blast. Learning this patience also means you can hold off on using the next Nova (saving your shields) if you're getting slammed by enemies.
- If you need to retreat, Charge first, then run. If I have a nearby doorway or something to hide with then I might Nova after that Charge to get some space also.
- Don't mess with Banshees; shoot from a distance or go elsewhere. They're the only OHKO enemies that don't need to be right next to you, as its barriers draw you in from pretty far out. If you use Nova at the edge of its range against PHantoms/Brutes/Atlas then you're safe from OHKO. The most vulnerable part in the Charge/Nova cycle for OHKO's is right after a Nova. You can continue to move as you're rising from your Nova, so if you're attacking these enemies, always drift BACKWARDS when using Nova.
- You CAN mess with full health Turrets, but in specific situations. First, make sure its attention is elsewhere. Then run up to it, lead with Nova -> Nova, then kite it while going into your normal Charge/Nova/Nova combo (don't space your Novas here though, as Turrets don't stagger). After Nova/Nova/Charge/Nova this should be enough to kill it. If you lead in with Charge/Nova/Nova you WILL die before you get off that second Charge.
electricpirate
Member
Is it possible to remap which button powers are on? Having charge on the Y button for the Vanguard is just so awkward, I've died a fair number of times either trying to claw the Y button or losing the target when i pull my thumbs off the target.
I mean, aside from finally manning up and building that gaming PC I've been talking about building for the past 6 months
LMAO. The entire matchmaking and lobby system is pretty bad. No option to mute, "Any" difficulty for default, ability to boot the host, host leaving makes you load, launching into game from store wipes all your shit, getting dropped from matches gives you no xp/money, no option to restrict lobbies to certain levels, no indicators of what people in the lobby are doing (if it at least said stuff like "Selecting Weapons" under their name)
No. Fucking sucks man. Energy drain is Y on Salarian Engineer and Overcharge is RB on Human Engineer. So confusing when you switch between them and deal with shielded enemies.
electricpirate
Member
Booo
. Ehh, I might just finish off my lvl 18 vanguard and promote him. Between the occasional charge delay, glitching through walls, and the awkwardness of Y I'm finding more frustration than fun with the class. One tip I found though, if you have an adept in your party as a vanguard hang out with them. As soon as you see them warp, hit the charge. Warp + fully powered charge will stun things that would normally OHK you, allowing you to keep on rocking. makes for fun teamwork.
razgriz417
Member
Heh is it weird that I love playing this on PC because of this
mapped all my powers to the buttons for east access
mapped all my powers to the buttons for east access
Thanks for the tips! I'll experiment some more to try for that rhythm.
What pack(s) should I buy to get an advanced assault rifle?
:/ Using no weapons sounds crazy to me.
But I use the AR way more than my shotty. It's probably a 70/30 split.
:/ Using no weapons sounds crazy to me.
But I use the AR way more than my shotty. It's probably a 70/30 split.
I got my first N7 weapon, the Wraith.
It's nice to have a backup shotgun just in case the Disciple, Geth Plasma Rifle, Claymore, leveled Eviscerator, Katana, and Graal Spike Thrower don't work out. I feel like using it out of spite.
Meanwhile, the infiltrator still sports a Mantis X.
It's nice to have a backup shotgun just in case the Disciple, Geth Plasma Rifle, Claymore, leveled Eviscerator, Katana, and Graal Spike Thrower don't work out. I feel like using it out of spite.
Meanwhile, the infiltrator still sports a Mantis X.
walbertsmith
Member
You *can* use no weapons but I wouldn't recommend it *at all* for Silver/Gold. It's true that you don't rely on your weapon as heavily as other classes might, but it's imperative to use your weapon.
Your weapons are the Geth Pulse Shotgun and the Avenger right? The reason why I said roll shotty is because the GPS is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the Avenger. Like leaps and bounds and barrel rolls and backflips better. Read my tips for the Vanguard above, then try this in an experiment:
Next time you face a solo Guardian, Charge it to make him move his shield, then see how long each weapon takes to put it down. For the Avenger, It takes at least 2 and maybe 3 Charges (shooting it in the head in between each time) to put down that Guardian. Now, I don't have the GPS so I don't know how strong it is, but I know that for the default shotgun (and most shotguns actually, other than the rapid fire one) one shot in the head will put it down. *That* is the kind of short range stopping power you want when playing Vanguard.
If you don't like shotguns in general and/or want more range, look for a Carnifex/Paladin type heavy pistol and roll with that (also nice because they're lighter than shotguns in general). You can get off two Carnifex shots on the Guardian before it gets its shield back up, plenty of time to kill it with a headshot.
Absoludacrous
Member
I still don't have a Quarian Infiltrator. At this point I don't think I could live without Energy Drain on my Salarian though.
You can get rares in the veteran packs, but you are guaranteed at least one rare in the spectre pack.
Chain overload with neural shock. Also, combat drone is useful as a distraction, especially against the big mobs.
Calisto Glory
Banned
Max the combat drone (damage and health) and get the flamethrower turrets (good vs. phantoms)