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[Tokubetsu]

An me3-era me sequel would not be appealing to me. We already have visited enough of the galaxy within a three year period, and the current situation is definitely passé.

Prequel might be ok, but I don't think I care enough about any of the pre-Shepard characters or lore to care. Woo first contact war.

You know what bugged me about this game? The music. I am relistening to ME1's ost and aside from it being so weird and out there, it had a really consistent muscal hook across all the main themes. me2 and 3 needed that.

ME1's score was definitely the stongest. I can kinda understand why they ditched the 80's scifi feel of the game overall (visually), but they shouldn't have just thrown the score out the window completely in favor of the electronic prog-rockesque stuff we got in it's place.

 

[Riggs]

How can I contact the Mass Deflect Tumblr? I have a couple of things to add. Two podcasts have discussed the ending today:

Mine Moofpack.com

Weekend Confirmed

Really enjoying the moofers podcast. Is one of them GAF? Thought I remembered someone saying that.

 

[Rodhull]

That's what I thought, but the quote from The Last Hours app implies they intend this for the franchise as a whole.

I wouldn't be surprised if this changed when under pressure from EA and fans, but yeah, it doesn't seem like they wan't to go past ME3, and would rather focus on the known, established galactic state.

Ah yeah you're right, I have the app but hadn't got that far and the articles quoting it made it sound otherwise.

I'm really not sure if a prequel would be all that interesting. Especially considering there's such a short space of time between finding the mass relays and when the games take place.

 

[rififi]

- ME3 makes the events of ME2 even more pointless than they already were
- ME3 blatantly contradicts the basic lore of the series
- Mac Walters sucks

This is what happens when you change lead writer midway through ME2 - do a quick google search about the original dark energy plot, which will make me2 not pointless.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

You know we'll never play an alien. At least not in a narrative game, maybe as a choice in an MMO/ other multiplayer-centric game. That means we are limited to pretty much early discovery- can't see the game here, First Contact War- Bleh, especially since we kind of already know about it, or some amazing story that goes untold and unheard of (Secret Black Ops Mission into the Traverse!).

Humans have been a part of the galactic community (that no longer exists) for such a short period of time there really is no way to do anything meaningful, or that isn't tied to the previous trilogy.

 

[tino]

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/mass-effect-3/critic-reviews

Not a shop.

The user score is so low I had to click on it to find out what the full score is.

 

[Trey]

Never much cared for the Mass Effect universe. Always struck me a bland. But I like the characters. So anything down the road would have to pick up that kind of pedigree to get me interested.

 

[Guesong]

I wouldn't be surprised if this changed when under pressure from EA and fans, but yeah, it doesn't seem like they wan't to go past ME3, and would rather focus on the known, established galactic state.

Hardly surprising considering they just killed their entire universe minus one isolated Eden planet.

Much easier to make game dating from before that little predicament they put themselves in.

 

[Y2Kev]

Wow, the dark energy plot doesn't sound like garbage. Wonder what happened.

 

[Lifejumper]

Pretty interesting post from BSN.

Posted this yesterday, I'll repost here. Hope it helps to see what's on the other side of the mirror atm.

I don't think Bioware is out of touch with their customers though I agree with an earlier poster that right now they are assessing their options. Nor do I think that everyone speaking up for them at the moment is a "yes man" or shill. That said:

I don't for a moment think there are any other endings, this was a hallucination, etc. Bioware/EA is letting these speculations go on for two reasons. First, they are letting people vent. Secondly, they are weighing options.

Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core. Next, offer something distracting (notice SWTOR is free this upcoming weekend) known as the "faux olive branch"/ask the angry people to explain their concerns (without agreeing to commit to a compromise), buy more add time (definitely going on right now), and hope it dies down. If the pressure is still on, determine the economic viability of 1) ignoring the outcry and banking on the fickle nature of consumers to get over it or 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it.

If it is any consolation, the decision whether or not there is a fix DLC, etc, won't be made by the writers so illusions to things they wanted to convey don't matter much atm (to wit: the leads comments yesterday). I suspect he's been called in and politely told by the PR guys to not do that again. This is now a corporate problem, not an artistic struggle with fans. Somewhere in the EA bunker, attorneys, PR guys, writers and brass are sharing numbers b/c in the end this will come down to hard currency.

As one who despises the endings, I'm hoping the suits tell the visionaries that the customers are loud enough and numerous enough to swollow their pride and get them out of this storm. For those that love them, I readily accept your position and respectfully disagree.

 

[rififi]

ME1's score was definitely the stongest. I can kinda understand why they ditched the 80's scifi feel of the game overall (visually), but they shouldn't have just thrown the score out the window completely in favor of the electronic prog-rockesque stuff we got in it's place.

I completely agree. They also got rid of the 80's film-grain filter as well.

I was so excited to hear that Clint Mansell was doing the score, but while I like the few pieces he did, they don't really compare to his previous work (Moon, the Fountain, Requiem for a Dream).

I think tomorrow I am going to pop ME1 back in with my nostalgia glasses on, just to remind me of why I got so invested in this series to begin with.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Wow, the dark energy plot doesn't sound like garbage. Wonder what happened.

That writer left halfway through ME2 or after it. IIRC.

 

[Robot Pants]

This is what happens when you change lead writer midway through ME2 - do a quick google search about the original dark energy plot, which will make me2 not pointless.

Yea I remember the dark energy plot. Would have been much more interesting, but it was dropped. It would have made ME2 not pointless, but since they dropped it, it was. It's a shame.

I think tomorrow I am going to pop ME1 back in with my nostalgia glasses on, just to remind me of why I got so invested in this series to begin with.

This is exactly what I'm going to do today. And couldn't wait to do all while I was playing through ME3. Oh the possibilities we could have had...

 

[Almighty]

It's not exactly the universe they want to scrap. It's most of the mechanics that define ME1-ME2 and to a lesser extent, ME3.

I do believe that the larger goal is to create the most accessible game set in the ME universe. With ME3, there was a huge focus on the "new players". That's why they wanted less conversations, which meant that the player had less control over the flow of the story. I think they even asked the reviewers to start the game without an import.

What they want to do is Uncharted in space. That's it. No choices, no branching dialogue. A linear experience that they can fine tune. It's less complicated, cheaper, easier to make and really, it will probably sell better.

At least, that's where I think the franchise is heading.

Well that would explain quite a few of the design decision ME3 had.

Not really surprising to me though. Bioware has been giving off hints that's the kind of direction they as a company want to go in for a while now. This might sound harsher then I mean it to, but in all honesty if that direction for Bioware catches anyone off guard they just haven't been paying attention.

 

[Y2Kev]

I know the "reapers aren't totally the bad guys" angle would hardly be original, but at least you'd be satisfied with their motive. It would feel like you learned something.

The revelation that the synthetics were designed to stop organics from creating synthetics that kill organics by killing them is insulting and is one giant möbius strip of bullshit.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Wow, the dark energy plot doesn't sound like garbage. Wonder what happened.

If I remember earlier pages of this thread correctly, that plot line had a lot of problems of its own, and even the writer whose idea it was had big reservations. Reapers become misunderstood villain, humanity as being the key to solving everything is hokey, undercuts idea that the Reaper's motives were inscrutable (though honestly, there is no answer to the Reaper's motives that doesn't undercut that). Makes the reapers seem incompetent if they're spent millenia trying to solve the problem but can't do it.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Mass Effect 2 - Human Reaper
Since the end of Mass Effect 2, my biggest question was always, "just what the heck where those darn Reapers trying to achieve with that Human Reaper, and why did it look human?
No worries, I'm sure they will explain it in ME3. BioWare can't just brush it off can they?" Apparently yes, they can.

The Guardian/Catalyst tells us at the end, that Reapers harvest organic life and put them into a new Reaper. Pretty much what we saw going on in the Collector base in ME2.
But my question is, if this is the process in which Reapers purge the strongest species from the galaxy, why did they start early with Humans? If they were just going to arrive at the galaxy a year later anyway, why go through all the trouble to start the Human Reaper?
Did the Reaper armada need ONE extra Reaper ready for when they got there because they were scared to lose? What was this Reaper supposed to do?! Why choose Humans? And WHY did it look Human? None of the other Reapers look like their species.

Some of this was explained in various sources prior to ME3.

For one, the Human Reaper is being built to "preserve" the human race, not just add an extra Reaper to their ranks.

As for why it looks human and the other ships look like cuttlefish is because the Human Reaper larvae is actually meant to be the core and not the exterior. Thus, once finished it would look like the usual cuttlefish design but with the human skeleton frame in the interior of the ship.

What I don't understand is that the Reapers supposedly upload their minds or other races minds to the ships and we were just told they were melting people's DNA. You'd figure they'd be uploading these victims' minds just prior to liquifying them. I stated this previously and it would of made more sense, not to mention add an even more horrific example of what they're doing.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Holy shit

THIS IS NOW CANON

One of the few things SPECULATION has brought us

Some of this was explained in various sources prior to ME3.

For one, the Human Reaper is being built to "preserve" the human race, not just add an extra Reaper to their ranks.

Yes, "preserve" by turning humans into paste

As for why it looks human and the other ships look like cuttlefish is because the Human Reaper larvae is actually meant to be the core and not the exterior. Thus, once finished it would look like the usual cuttlefish design but with the human skeleton frame in the interior of the ship.

I thought this was just speculation. Has it been stated anywhere in the game?

 

[Rodhull]

They shit on jacob even more if you romance him in ME2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GqKunyspA

Spoiler

you dont' expect me to wait forever?!?!?!

Spoiler

couple of month is forever

Yeah I saw it before. So he either cheats on Shepherd or just aimlessly waits in a hospital whilst telling you he's too busy to join you. Lucky he had a vid message for you before the finale or it would have appeared he was killed when he reapers closed the citadel .

 

[Jake Tower]

giant möbius strip of bullshit.

New spoiler thread title?

 

[Derrick01]

Wow, the dark energy plot doesn't sound like garbage. Wonder what happened.

Mac Walters happened.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Lol. I forgot that Jacob was just chilling in the hospital for what must have been weeks, including when you left for Cerberus HQ. If he can make it out than surely everybody else did. He wouldn't abandon a sinking ship!

 

[rififi]

I know the "reapers aren't totally the bad guys" angle would hardly be original, but at least you'd be satisfied with their motive. It would feel like you learned something.

The revelation that the synthetics were designed to stop organics from creating synthetics that kill organics by killing them is insulting and is one giant möbius strip of bullshit.

Especially since I don't recall any mention of Prothean conflicts with synthetics.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

One of the few things SPECULATION has brought us



Yes, "preserve" by turning humans into paste

I thought this was just speculation. Has it been stated anywhere in the game?

Mac Walters, the lead writer stated it here: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-amp-a-for-hardcore-fans.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

The exterior of the Reapers does follow a similar pattern, an efficient design for the purpose they were created for. However each Reaper is created from a unique species, and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect 2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species.

 

[Rebel Leader]

That writer left halfway through ME2 or after it. IIRC.

From what I remember he left during ME2

 

[Achtius]

Especially since I don't recall any mention of Prothean conflicts with synthetics.

Metacon War

 

[Jake Tower]

Especially since I don't recall any mention of Prothean conflicts with synthetics.

That Prothean DLC character that was totally created on a separate budget that we would never have got without it being DLC extensively talks about Protheans fighting synthetics and councils Shepard to throw Legion out the airlock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey1cCgdgOEw

 

[EatChildren]

I don't know why the Reapers needed to be excused at all. They're the bad guys. They're beings of immense power and intelligence, a hybrid of organic and synthetic matter, essentially a technological singularity species. They require organic harvesting to improve their own being and to reproduce. They cultivate the galaxy because they're on top of the fucking food chain and we're all they're bitch. We're nothing but food to them, and the entire fight is a fight for survival.

"They're preserving you cos robots will inevitably kill you" is the dumbest excuse imaginable.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I just remembered that we never got an explanation, or a real conclusion, to the Haestrom mission in ME2. Felt like they were plotting a major story angle, then it was just dropped with no mention again (except for the planet bio in the galaxy screen).

 

[MC Safety]

I think the wheels began to come off in Mass Effect 2. It never sat well with me: the hard (pointless) reset for Shephard, Shephard working for an organization that was fairly well established as terrorist, and the whole notion the Reapers would even bother harvesting lifeforms instead of just destroying them outright.

It just seemed sort of slapped together, as if the shift from RPG with shooting elements to third-person shooter with brief nods toward an RPG occupied most of the designers' time and effort.

 

[Empty Space]

I don't know why the Reapers needed to be excused at all. They're the bad guys. They're beings of immense power and intelligence, a hybrid of organic and synthetic matter, essentially a technological singularity species. They require organic harvesting to improve their own being and to reproduce. They cultivate the galaxy because they're on top of the fucking food chain and we're all they're bitch. We're nothing but food to them, and the entire fight is a fight for survival.

"They're preserving you cos robots will inevitably kill you" is the dumbest excuse imaginable.

But but but LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!!!

 

[Dresden]

I think the wheels began to come off in Mass Effect 2. It never sat well with me: the hard (pointless) reset for Shephard, Shephard working for an organization that was fairly well established as terrorist, and the whole notion the Reapers would even bother harvesting lifeforms instead of just destroying them outright.

It just seemed sort of slapped together, as if the shift from RPG with shooting elements to third-person shooter with brief nods toward an RPG occupied most of the designers' time and effort.

.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I don't know why the Reapers needed to be excused at all. They're the bad guys. They're beings of immense power and intelligence, a hybrid of organic and synthetic matter, essentially a technological singularity species. They require organic harvesting to improve their own being and to reproduce. They cultivate the galaxy because they're on top of the fucking food chain and we're all they're bitch. We're nothing but food to them, and the entire fight is a fight for survival.

"They're preserving you cos robots will inevitably kill you" is the dumbest excuse imaginable.

Yep, I remember feeling that way playing ME1. Ultimate predators treating us like we treat cattle was interesting enough as far as pulp epic space operas go.

 

[MechaX]

I just remembered that we never got an explanation, or a real conclusion, to the Haestrom mission in ME2. Felt like they were plotting a major story angle, then it was just dropped with no mention again (except for the planet bio in the galaxy screen).

Yeah, that pretty much was the Dark Energy problem that was in the original draft.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't know why the Reapers needed to be excused at all. They're the bad guys. They're beings of immense power and intelligence, a hybrid of organic and synthetic matter, essentially a technological singularity species. They require organic harvesting to improve their own being and to reproduce. They cultivate the galaxy because they're on top of the fucking food chain and we're all they're bitch. We're nothing but food to them, and the entire fight is a fight for survival.

"They're preserving you cos robots will inevitably kill you" is the dumbest excuse imaginable.

They're the ones that say their motives are inscrutable. I'd be fine with them being like WE'RE HUNGRY but bioware had to be all deep about it

 

[Rodhull]

Pretty interesting post from BSN.

I think that sounds about right. Bioware are most likely just hoping this is typical Internet rage much ado about nothing. I'm sure if they do have anything regarding the endings planned it'll be announced soon but I think it's much more likely they'll try and delay and fob the fan base off until it dies over like the guy says.

 

[rififi]

That Prothean DLC character that was totally created on a separate budget that we would never have got without it being DLC extensively talks about Protheans fighting synthetics and councils Shepard to throw Legion out the airlock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey1cCgdgOEw

Well I stand corrected.

Does Javik stay in the port side cargo area of the engineering bay? I always wondered why that was on the map, but I could never access it.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Yeah, that pretty much was the Dark Energy problem that was in the original draft.

I'll have to look into that then. When playing that mission in ME2 it felt like they were laying the seeds for something bigger, so was surprised when nothing came of it.

 

[Duki]

Metacon War

retacon war

dont think the shit was even alluded to until they threw javik in

 

[EatChildren]

They're the ones that say their motives are inscrutable. I'd be fine with them being like WE'RE HUNGRY but bioware had to be all deep about it

That fits their MO. Sovereign treating you like an ant, same with Harbinger, is them showing utter superiority over you. Them trying to explain why they need you to reproduce, let along come to some kind of diplomatic understanding, is so far and beyond them it's not worth it. It's like a human trying to explain to a cow why steak is so damn tasty and it's important I eat it.

But yeah, BioWare had to go all deep and metaphysical about it, overcomplicating something so simple and believable.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I don't know why the Reapers needed to be excused at all. They're the bad guys. They're beings of immense power and intelligence, a hybrid of organic and synthetic matter, essentially a technological singularity species. They require organic harvesting to improve their own being and to reproduce. They cultivate the galaxy because they're on top of the fucking food chain and we're all they're bitch. We're nothing but food to them, and the entire fight is a fight for survival.

"They're preserving you cos robots will inevitably kill you" is the dumbest excuse imaginable.

I dunno, it's better than what we got, but I still think the Reapers should have been left as an enigmatic force. Any real motive just means Sovereign was lying to you in ME 1, and I always felt it was more chilling that we could never understand them. Even Shepard asks if they want us as slaves or resources, and Sovereign doesn't say, "Yes we want to harvest you". Leaving them mysterious lets fans speculate on their motives, which is apparently all Bioware wanted in the first place.

The idea that the Reapers just need us as food to reproduce just seemed too bland for me, since there would be no reason for them to leave the Galaxy. Just stick around and bio-engineer species and treat us like crops, each planet as a farm.

 

[Sajuuk]

Well I stand corrected.

Does Javik stay in the port side cargo area of the engineering bay? I always wondered why that was on the map, but I could never access it.

He even talk about grunt.

 

[Cartman86]

Finally finished it. Pretty much loved it up until the discussion with the advanced AI/God thing. Didn't have a problem with the concept, but it gave me the same style of choices that Deus Ex Human Revolution gave. Choose three options that you have to take on some sort of weird faith are true. Will this cycle always repeat? Why would I trust an AI who's whole goal so far has been to destroy us? How does he know it will always be the same? How long has he run this test? I just couldn't buy into it. So I sat there for a while thinking what I should choose. I figured that like all video games I had to take it at face value. I chose the middle option as purely a "This one is the most interesting, and results in the fewest deaths. I want to see what happens." And nothing happens. We don't see the result of your actions. We are told not shown. If your going to already put my decision on shaky ground at least let me see the real effects of it. Talk about synthetic/organic hybrid life and not show me? Fuck you! Perhaps if I hadn't done everything in the game and gotten a sadder ending I would have been more effected.

That being said The Mordin moment was amazing. As was the Garrus shooting/talk at the Citadel. These scenes probably ruined the ending a little for me. Was expecting something as emotionally investing as those scenes. Even the lead up as your walking through London talking to everyone lead me to believe that at least one person wasn't going to make it out. Instead the ending completely ignores your crew-mates (it appears in every ending it does this). So much so that somehow your running at Harbinger (wish they had done more with him) with your crew and then you get fucked up. What happened to my crew? Did they die too? Guy on the radio acts like they did. Nothing is spoken of until the very end when you see them for some reason in the Normandy flying away. It just felt disjointed.

This shouldn't be a shock to anyone though. Not every ending is great. Some people will like it and some people won't. Writing petitions to change that is both stupid and impossible.

I'm sure none of what I said is wholly original, but I felt like I had to write it down before I forget.

EDIT: Overall I think the game was solid. Though i'm really hoping that with the next gen they create real characters. By that I mean the people you talk to should have hopes and desires. You shouldn't be able to sweet talk (or renegade) everyone to do what you want. Some people should just not respond to those tactics (like the Illusive Man). Maybe they won't ever listen or maybe you need to find out what they will respond to. Just a thought.

 

[Patryn]

Mac Walters, the lead writer stated it here: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-amp-a-for-hardcore-fans.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

Except this totally forgets that Saren was traveling around in Sovereign.

So how did that room work if there was a creature that looked like a species in that shell?

 

[Almighty]

I dunno, it's better than what we got, but I still think the Reapers should have been left as an enigmatic force. Any real motive just means Sovereign was lying to you in ME 1, and I always felt it was more chilling that we could never understand them. Even Shepard asks if they want us as slaves or resources, and Sovereign doesn't say, "Yes we want to harvest you". Leaving them mysterious lets fans speculate on their motives, which is apparently all Bioware wanted in the first place.

The idea that the Reapers just need us as food to reproduce just seemed to bland for me, since there would be no reason for them to leave the Galaxy. Just stick around and bio-engineer species and treat us like crops, each planet as a farm.

Yes that is what i would of wanted them to do too. Sadly though they already ruined that idea at the end of ME2. If they were smart they would of just stopped there at they need use to reproduce or what ever they were doing in ME2. I could live with the Reapers just using us for food or what not no more explanation needed. Instead they had to go further and come up with the stupid idea that the reapers destroy us to protect us from the synthetics we will make which will destroy us anyway or something.

When that AI kid said that was when I first got a hint I was not going to like what was coming.

 

[Jake Tower]

Spoiler thread is a little under a hundred posts from overtaking the |OT|

 

[Patryn]

Yes that is what i would of wanted them to do too. Sadly though they already ruined that idea at the end of ME2. If they were smart they would of just stopped there at they need use to reproduce or what ever they were doing in ME2. I could live with the Reapers just using us for food or what not no more explanation needed. Instead they had to go further and come up with the stupid idea that the reapers destroy us to protect us from the synthetics we will make which will destroy us anyway.

It's even worse when you combine all this with Sovereign's talk about how the Mass Relays and the Citadel are there to help guide species' technological development. This means that they're actively leading races to develop AI so that they can then be harvested to prevent those AIs from killing everything.

 

[Rapstah]

Except this totally forgets that Saren was traveling around in Sovereign.

So how did that room work if there was a creature that looked like a species in that shell?

It's two kilometres long, I'm sure there's space. There's also the dead Reaper you visit in ME2 that has tons of walkways and just randomly open space.

 

[The Librarian]

Spoiler thread is a little under a hundred posts from overtaking the |OT|

Has this ever happened before? :lol

 

[Rebel Leader]

.

Why did Drew leave.....Why.. T_T