That's only a problem if you're incredibly reductionist about the ending.
Maybe you should follow the advice.
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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That's only a problem if you're incredibly reductionist about the ending.
Maybe you should follow the advice.
FieryBalrog
Member
Nah, I'm good.
HarryHengst
Member
Oh, the Quarians were assholes, sure, but i still cant help but find a one-sided story pretty suspect.
Sure, even if Legion was 100% honest (and he does not help his case by hiding his intentions two times on those missions) it still is only one side of the story.
But I think "both sides are assholes" is probably a good starting point to negotiate peace... and it actually plays in the whole "AI are dangerous and flawed, but not automatically evil" that the game had going until the end.
dragonelite
Member
But in the previous two game all we got were the Quarian side of the hate against the Geth.
The Quarians lost the Morning War were and lost their home planet. And blame the Geth for all their problems. In those 300 years as far as i know the Geth stayed in their territory did not attacked the Migrant Fleet or infiltrate the Fleet. Only the Heretic faction went into Citadel space and attacked organics. This is what i remember from the 3 games.
So we got too see 2 sides of the coin.
I find the Protheans more douchebaggery then the Geth with the Protheans it was our way or the extinction of your race.
KOTOR 2's story was leagues better than KOTOR's George Lucas Friendly story.
No you don't.
Most likely you missed a lot of content (there's a lot of fetch quests) and didn't properly play ME1 and ME2 in terms of quests and content. You should have around at most 3400 EMS.
You don't, but it requires that you didn't exile Tali and it also requires you destroyed the heretics instead of rewriting them in ME2.
Nope. He was in the books and fought Anderson before. His character is absolutely ridiculous in the books too, such like killing someone with a sharpened toothbrush.
GrandHarrier
Member
That ending...
I don't know. The whole Earth sequence is powerful. The rush to the beam. The bloody, broken Shepard staggering forward. I choose the only acceptable ending, destroying all the Reapers...
My one true regret? My FemShep being separated from Liara for no good reason. 3 games cultivating that romance.
I don't know. The whole Earth sequence is powerful. The rush to the beam. The bloody, broken Shepard staggering forward. I choose the only acceptable ending, destroying all the Reapers...
My one true regret? My FemShep being separated from Liara for no good reason. 3 games cultivating that romance.
HarryHengst
Member
I know its dumb to pay for DLC that gives a better ending, but i will totally pay for it. I need my closure. 
heliosRAzi
Banned
I think most people don't think it makes sense given the entire series and even within the entire series a lot of things don't jive or make sense. The Reapers were originally harvesting races to gather fresh perspectives on our to stop the spread of dark energy. With that change and the change of writers, things don't match up well.
There's also the bit in ME2 where Legion was going to send classified data to his people in response to the quarian's conducting experiments on the geth. FRom what we've seen is that the geth are mostly peace save for those heretics.
I think my favorite part in the game was the London camp. It just gave this sense of finality that stuck with me.
I'm tempted, but I'd probably watch it on youtube.I know its dumb to pay for DLC that gives a better ending, but i will totally pay for it. I need my closure.
It wasn't just the protheans, if you talk to the Prothean VI he mentions that it's something that's been "saved" and continuously built up throughout the eons of the galaxy by the thousands of races the reapers have killed before
You can get it still if you rewrite, just need to make sure you do all the mission in that arc before the Reaper Base. I think it may be impossible though if you decided to rewrite, then couldn't paragon/renegade your way out of the argument afterwards.
dgrdsv
Member
So I see that a day later we're already on "all of it was a dream" part?
I'd bet that this will be the way Bioware will retcon the ending so more ME games could be made. Like Shepard dies near that console and that elevator out of nowhere in a beam of light is just a dream / hallucination that never happened. Cha-ching.
That is even worse than what endings we've got.
It natural to rationalize it now but no amount of rationalization will help here - the ending SUCKS, period. And the one who came up with that idea for ME3 ending should be kept as far away from future game stories / plots as possible.
Also I see a lot of people here saying that the game was like 10/10 good with the exception of the ending. I'm sorry but that's not true either. The game is a step back from ME2 which was a step back from ME1. More linear, less choices in dialogs, the gameplay is simplified to something like GeoW cover shooter mechanics (no hacking / bypassing mini-games now at all; still no Mako / Hammerhead exploration like in ME1; no non-shooting missions like in ME2; even planetary scanning that sucked in ME2 is simplified so that it sucks even more now -- thankfully there are much less of it in ME3). AI tend to just attack you straight forward now -- they just run at you most of the times from several directions so you have almost no time for any tactical squad management because you have to switch covers all the time to stay alive. There are weapons upgrades now but they change so little that I don't even see the point in buying them. Also -- you can't carry heavy weapons with you like you could in ME2 which limits your tactical options once more. Characters skills progression is mostly pointless -- new abilities once unlocked don't change much with further progression. To top it off there is no overaching story -- some missions like Udina's coup just fall on you out of nowhere, others are a continuation of ME2 squad members loyalty quests which were supposed to be complete in ME2 once and for all. At the start of the game I thought that Shepard will search the galaxy for the Catalyst -- a rehash of ME1 story but OK, I can live with that. But no searching ever happens -- you just go with the flow in the form of orders from Hackett which he mostly pulls out of thin air.
I'll have to beat it again but as of right now even disregarding the abysmal ending I'd put ME3 behind ME2 gameplay wise. And in whole it's ME1>ME2>ME3.
I'd bet that this will be the way Bioware will retcon the ending so more ME games could be made. Like Shepard dies near that console and that elevator out of nowhere in a beam of light is just a dream / hallucination that never happened. Cha-ching.
That is even worse than what endings we've got.
It natural to rationalize it now but no amount of rationalization will help here - the ending SUCKS, period. And the one who came up with that idea for ME3 ending should be kept as far away from future game stories / plots as possible.
Also I see a lot of people here saying that the game was like 10/10 good with the exception of the ending. I'm sorry but that's not true either. The game is a step back from ME2 which was a step back from ME1. More linear, less choices in dialogs, the gameplay is simplified to something like GeoW cover shooter mechanics (no hacking / bypassing mini-games now at all; still no Mako / Hammerhead exploration like in ME1; no non-shooting missions like in ME2; even planetary scanning that sucked in ME2 is simplified so that it sucks even more now -- thankfully there are much less of it in ME3). AI tend to just attack you straight forward now -- they just run at you most of the times from several directions so you have almost no time for any tactical squad management because you have to switch covers all the time to stay alive. There are weapons upgrades now but they change so little that I don't even see the point in buying them. Also -- you can't carry heavy weapons with you like you could in ME2 which limits your tactical options once more. Characters skills progression is mostly pointless -- new abilities once unlocked don't change much with further progression. To top it off there is no overaching story -- some missions like Udina's coup just fall on you out of nowhere, others are a continuation of ME2 squad members loyalty quests which were supposed to be complete in ME2 once and for all. At the start of the game I thought that Shepard will search the galaxy for the Catalyst -- a rehash of ME1 story but OK, I can live with that. But no searching ever happens -- you just go with the flow in the form of orders from Hackett which he mostly pulls out of thin air.
I'll have to beat it again but as of right now even disregarding the abysmal ending I'd put ME3 behind ME2 gameplay wise. And in whole it's ME1>ME2>ME3.
HarryHengst
Member
I too fucking loved playing Frogger 10.000 times in ME1, yes.
dgrdsv
Member
There are two ways to remedy that problem:
1. Take it out of the next game completely, give nothing instead. That's Bioware's way.
2. Fix it, add more different mini-games so that they don't feel repetitive. That's a proper way.
dragonelite
Member
Man i glad the took out the mini games felt like a hassle in both ME 1 and 2.
Mass effect was a nice mix of dude bro shooting and rpg story telling for me personally..
Would have loved Me1 item drops from me1 to reappear in me3.
HarryHengst
Member
Meh, minigames are fun once or twice, but after that its just annoying. I love the streamlining Bioware did in this game.
Also, on the Bioware forums is a topic where people are talking about differences in the final game and the leaked script:
Why the hell did Bioware remove this? It would have saved them all the backlash they are getting now.
Also, on the Bioware forums is a topic where people are talking about differences in the final game and the leaked script:
Why the hell did Bioware remove this? It would have saved them all the backlash they are getting now.
"So the hypothetical destruction of organic life by synthetics must be prevented by actually destroying an incalculably small fraction of organic life... by synthetics."
I fixed it for you.
CAW
Member
I'm sorry but I believe the indoctrination and hallucination theories, they just make the most sense out of all of this. I mean how else do you end a trilogy and are still able to pimp out DLC? You fake the ending, duh!
Maybe they're really, really, clever.
edit: denial stage/whatever. I'm actually on the acceptance stage and ready to move on to other games. I'm trying to do a femshep play through but just knowing how awful the ending is, is making it difficult to continue. So I think I'll move on and come back when some new info is released.
Maybe they're really, really, clever.
edit: denial stage/whatever. I'm actually on the acceptance stage and ready to move on to other games. I'm trying to do a femshep play through but just knowing how awful the ending is, is making it difficult to continue. So I think I'll move on and come back when some new info is released.
dgrdsv
Member
Easily. You just add DLC as new missions before the final battle mission -- or you think that's a coincidence that you post-final save is back on the Normandy bridge before the Cerberus base attack?
Mako exploration and planet scanning are two different things. The second one is an abomination that nearly ruined ME2. The first one is a great way to create atmosphere of an infinite universe with countless unexplored planets. It was badly done but as concept it was brilliant. And instead of killing it off Bioware should've tried to fix it in sequels.
HarryHengst
Member
I wish the scanning in ME3 was also gone. I rather had a few small missions than having to scan around the galaxy for 20 objects for 20 fetch quests. Bioware did a good job cleaning up unnecessary gameplay, but that was one thing that could have been better.
CAW
Member
Good point.
HarryHengst
Member
Haha yeah, i was wondering about that, but that makes the most sense.
diamondstar
Member
I agree with most that you say with the exception of a few things. Here are my thoughts...at the moment I pretty much hate Bioware. I admit it could be because of a Mass Effect overload trying to get these perfect saves ready for an epic ending. My problem is I put up with the ME2 story hoping it would all tie in at the end...it didn't. I put up with all the bullshit in ME3 hoping it would all tie up at the end. Nope. So I feel I have invested so much time in the series for nothing. Just like the pointless ending of the ME3.
Many people talked a lot of shit about ME2 being pointless and ME3 finally proves our point. ME3 should have been ME2. I think the games are pretty good on their own but as a trilogy, it is pretty mediocre.
My specific problems with ME3:
-NO REAPERS. I feel the most memorable gameplay sequences involved the Reapers. Yet the majority of the game was void of Reaper interaction.
-The romance scenes were so f'n horrible. I feel I got the shaft for choosing Miranda as a LI. Bioware pretty much fucked over fans that invested in their 2nd game. It makes my playthrough feel pointless because as a male shep the emotional tie was definitely with Liara or Ashley.
-The inconsistency in how invincible Reapers are. On the last mission, did I take out a Reaper with a nuke? And why have the space battle with the Reapers where they stand no chance at all?
-Side missions, fetch quests and planet scanning. All were horrible this time around. Mid-game I stopped doing any voluntarily and it still took me over 30 hours to complete the game. I felt like the game would never end.
At the end of the day....I think what kept me playing the series was for the light at the end of the tunnel. Now I realize it was all for nothing. I have little to be proud of at the end of the series.
I thought the ending was interesting, engaging, and even a bit thought provoking. Anyone mind summing up why everyone's going all "LOST" on it?
I mean...if you were wholesale on board with the story after Mass Effect 2, I don't see how it could alienate you all that much. Is it just the lack of divergences in terms of how choice affects the conclusion? I'd rather have a single strong conclusion with minor variations than a bunch of mediocre endings. The choices themselves led to a more personal journey that felt more meaningful..whether or not they led to HUGE divergences in the destination doesn't matter that much to me. Mass Effect's role playing elements have never been about huge polar opposite results. It's not the Witcher 2. There's really only two roles to play: good cop / bad cop. Where you're headed with both is basically the same..your morality just determines how you get there.
I mean...if you were wholesale on board with the story after Mass Effect 2, I don't see how it could alienate you all that much. Is it just the lack of divergences in terms of how choice affects the conclusion? I'd rather have a single strong conclusion with minor variations than a bunch of mediocre endings. The choices themselves led to a more personal journey that felt more meaningful..whether or not they led to HUGE divergences in the destination doesn't matter that much to me. Mass Effect's role playing elements have never been about huge polar opposite results. It's not the Witcher 2. There's really only two roles to play: good cop / bad cop. Where you're headed with both is basically the same..your morality just determines how you get there.
GrandHarrier
Member
I think some people are being unfair to the game / series as a whole because of the ending. Yeah, yeah, it bothers me too. It really, really bothers me. But the amount of vitriol and shit you are heaping on the bulk of the game/s because of either a) the ending, or b) nit picky plot points or gameplay decisions. This game had such a powerful emotional payoff for me up to and, sadly, including the end. The character interactions were just... amazing. Mordin's finale. The shooting contest with Garrus. The moments with Tali on Rannoch. Not to mention all the cameos from ME2. And the final battle for Earth was some of the best atmosphere I've experienced in some time. That was some dark shit with a sense of perseverance of spirit that I couldn't help but be motivated by.
And... then the ending. I think... I think I could have accepted it (the Destroy option anyways) if only they hadn't done the random Normandy part. That I just don't understand. What is even the point? Why did it happen? How did it happen?
Just let my Shepard stand on the ruins of Earth with her LI and comment about how its going to be a long, hard road ahead, but they'll do it their way, forge their own destiny.
And... then the ending. I think... I think I could have accepted it (the Destroy option anyways) if only they hadn't done the random Normandy part. That I just don't understand. What is even the point? Why did it happen? How did it happen?
Just let my Shepard stand on the ruins of Earth with her LI and comment about how its going to be a long, hard road ahead, but they'll do it their way, forge their own destiny.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I don't think the biggest issues are its messiness and lack of focus (though they are big issues); I think the biggest sticking point is that the ending involved the introduction of concepts and powers (i.e. space magic) that were never even alluded to in the series, and feel very out of place in a sci-fi rooted series.
I don't think everything up to the ending was perfect, but I was honestly pleased. For me the gameplay was better than ME2, and even the customizations while not that great were a step up from the previous game. Dialog was little more limited, but what was there was good, and the sendoffs and sacrifices, specially Mordin, were mostly well done. Of course, Dragon Age 2 probably dropped my expectations a lot so I was easily impressed.
As for the planet scanning, yeah, Bioware never got the "grinding" aspect right on these games. Going around systems "pinging" to find hotspots, while avoiding reapers that get faster and faster (so you have the exit and re-enter the system) is no better that what we had in ME2. Mako is probably the best grind tool for me, but it would require a lot more effort (like generating interesting worlds) to actually be good.
Which to me, makes the ending even more baffling. What the heck do I care about some sidemissions (I'd imagine Aria takes back omega is a strong possibility) if everything is going to covered in space-magic color in the end, and everyone is isolated.
As for the planet scanning, yeah, Bioware never got the "grinding" aspect right on these games. Going around systems "pinging" to find hotspots, while avoiding reapers that get faster and faster (so you have the exit and re-enter the system) is no better that what we had in ME2. Mako is probably the best grind tool for me, but it would require a lot more effort (like generating interesting worlds) to actually be good.
Which to me, makes the ending even more baffling. What the heck do I care about some sidemissions (I'd imagine Aria takes back omega is a strong possibility) if everything is going to covered in space-magic color in the end, and everyone is isolated.
Rei no Otaku
Member
Completely agree. Glad I'm not the only one.
djplaeskool
Member
This is single-handedly the most unsatisfying ending to a game I can remember.
C'mon Bioware, you're ending a trilogy. Give us a little falling-action or epilogue or something.
I'm not even asking for total closure. Just something. It's like the ending to Transformers 3.
Christ.
C'mon Bioware, you're ending a trilogy. Give us a little falling-action or epilogue or something.
I'm not even asking for total closure. Just something. It's like the ending to Transformers 3.
Christ.
HarryHengst
Member
I agree with this. Whatever the ending, Bioware did produce an amazing game and i really enjoyed the journey so much. Yes, im really disappointed by the ending, but that doesnt mean i enjoy the rest any less. I love the universe, i love the characters, i love the improvements in gameplay (even though it makes ME1 pretty hard to play again), the music is absolutely gorgeous and im not ashamed to admit i sometimes listen to the OST.
I really hope that Bioware is shocked by the backlash and will work to create a proper finish, because the series deserves it. I dont expect it, but if Bioware fixes the ending for free that would be amazing and i will forgive them what we have now.
Secret_Riddle said:
It does not have to be either one or the other, either "the journey" or "the destination". Which curiously, is the same LOST argument that you're not seeing here.
The journey was amazing, yes. Lots of cool scenes. But for an ending 5 years in the making, the final destination, it just pisses all over the franchise and over the player.
I agree with this as well. I'm just saying that I like the idea behind the reaper cycle, that it makes sense, and I wish bioware had thought of it before ME1 so that they could have woven it throughout the series more, rather after they'd released ME1 and ME2, which is evidently what happened.
Agreed. Whatever their future plans are, for now, even though I enjoyed "the journey", I'm still a little pissed about where I ended up, or as posted a few pages back:
dragonelite
Member
But Aria doesn't even give a good reason to get omega back what can it offer for the war asset. Cerberus Main base is somewhere else anyway. Only special thing i could think of is the omega 4 relay but that leads to a death trap with all that debris floating around it..
And you already can get the support from the Mercenaries. They should have put that part of the war asset in the dlc. Or take back Omega as post game dlc if we had a different ending. But if they gonna put it in as dlc anyway it should have been the day one dlc and not the prothean.
Also seeing all those fleets arrive in the sol system was so epic and engaging the reapers heads on.
But what i dont understand is why they don't focus fire on that red globe on the reapers back that was suppose to be their weakspot right before they fire their big red space magic beam.
And you already can get the support from the Mercenaries. They should have put that part of the war asset in the dlc. Or take back Omega as post game dlc if we had a different ending. But if they gonna put it in as dlc anyway it should have been the day one dlc and not the prothean.
Also seeing all those fleets arrive in the sol system was so epic and engaging the reapers heads on.
But what i dont understand is why they don't focus fire on that red globe on the reapers back that was suppose to be their weakspot right before they fire their big red space magic beam.
indigo-cyclops
Member
I can certainly agree with this here, but as mentioned, it's so convoluted that is negates (for me) a lot of what happened. If it was written carefully to be so, that would be different. Now I am left with even more questions, and ones that most likely will never be answered. It dramatically shifted the balance of the narrative.
Yeah it was bad enough to sour me on all 3 games to the point where I want to replay them for different choices, because 3 was so good, but I just can't get over that ending. It's going to take months for me to be able to sit down and play 3 again. Or a DLC fix which would piss me off for other reasons if they charged for it.
The red globe isn't on the back of the reapers but inside the shell that opens up before they fire. And it seems they don't use it often as they have other laser weapons from the tentacle thingies too.
I took a look at the Mass Effect 3 wikipedia page and found this entry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect_3#Origins
That....has to be a lie right? There is no way the rest of the writing staff collectively nodded their heads and said "Yeah, this makes sense."
Red Blaster
Member
Have you even read the thread? The ending is perhaps the worst ever in a major story driven game.
And that's a flaw with the game, BioWare shouldn't have lied to us. Also the Journey/Destination perspective doesn't give a developer free reign to give us that shit sandwich of an ending.
What I don't get is why they didn't retrofit all of the ships with the Normandy Weapons it had in ME2.
It ripped through a Collector Dreadnaught. Now it's useless against the Reapers?
But Missile Launchers? Yep, that'll do the trick.
And somehow it's still better than the ending to LOST. /digression
Ending made absolutely no sense. I agree with much of the backlash, except for the dream part. It's just a bad ending that's completely irrational.
I also have no incentive to play a second pass if everyone pretty much dies.
I also have no incentive to play a second pass if everyone pretty much dies.
The argument you said I'm not seeing is actually the one I'm referring to. It doesn't have to be either/or, but the choices you made throughout trilogy never changed Shepard's mission, they just built his character in different ways. Like I said, the good cop, bad cop dichotomy. You were always rushing towards the same end; the difference was in the means you took to get there. I don't see a necessary connection between having several means and several ends, especially when your choices never changed what you were trying to accomplish.
Now, whether or not you thought the ending sucked on its own terms, outside of the element of choice, is another thing altogether.
No. Having just beaten the game, I have not gone through 42 pages of mostly meaningless posts. I just noticed a consistent reaction, and decided to ask for more information. I was asking for the arguments, not attacking them.
Ahhh yes, I see, I misunderstood. My apologies.
The ending is awful regardless, though. It introduces a number of MacGuffins in the last possible minute to do so, presents you with a choice that really isn't one, does not allow you to debate the logic (Dear Catalyst : Geth and Quarian made peace, EDI is cohabiting, thank you very much but I just disproved your logic), and it gives you a very, very poor aftermath.
I firmly believe that the ending choice could be the exact same, but that if instead of showing you a cutscene of the Normandy Crashlanding god knows where with magically teleporting squadmates, it ended on a 4-5 minutes epilogue of Liara narrating how all the races went about after the War (depending on your choices as usual), the backlash would be much, much, much less than what it is now. That's what we wished for ; closure.
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