It also totally contradicts the whole Legion thing about how Reaper tech would help the Geth evolve and is a good thing(which also contradicts Legion's whole thing in ME2 about how they don't want to depend on Reaper technology and instead they want to forge their own path, but whatever).
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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It also totally contradicts the whole Legion thing about how Reaper tech would help the Geth evolve and is a good thing(which also contradicts Legion's whole thing in ME2 about how they don't want to depend on Reaper technology and instead they want to forge their own path, but whatever).
SoulUnison
Banned
Ok, so I just posted this somewhere else, but I hadn't seen it brought up here.
You know how Joker talks about his family that lives on a farm way out on the outskirts of civilized space?
You know that PTSD Asari at the Citadel Hospital that talks about how she was stranded on a farm way out on the edges of civilized space?
The girl she rescued, accompanied, ended up killing the indoctrinated family of, and eventually murdered to keep her crying from alerting nearby enemies was named Hillary.
Joker's sister is named Hillary.
That Asari Commando with PTSD in the Citadel Hospital killed Joker's entire family, and none of the characters even know its happened. But the really terrifying part was when I realized what this meant for the implications of the "Allow the patient to have a gun" option that comes up at the Spectre Terminal.
She probably *knows*.
She spent several days with Hillary. They probably had a bit of a rapport going. Hillary would would be worried sick about the family that she knows is on the farm and the brother who's personal pilot to the famous Commander Shepard and doing who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if the Asari get to know Hillary pretty well, and lots of trivia about her family members.
And how could you not mention you brother is best friends with Commander Shepard? And I bet he's famous enough at this point that the Asari knows who he is. So she stages this rescue mission, and it goes bad, and she kills the family. And then, to save herself, probably thinking it won't even buy her that much more time anyway, she kills Hillary.
By some miracle, she's rescued, and she ends up back on the Citadel. But, she knows who she's killed. And she can't take it. She wants out. She knows. And every time Shepard walks through the lobby she *knows.* And every time we pause over her or her doctor's shoulder, listening to this story we think is totally unrelated to us, she's panicking inside. "Does Shepard know? Does Shepard know I know he knows!?" And she keeps pleading for the gun nobody will let her have.
And then, one day, an orderly gives her a package.
"Special Spectre Authorization"
A gun. Straight from Commander Shepard.
To most of us, hitting X on that report was just "paperwork."
But to her, especially if you played a Renegade Shep, we might've basically been saying "Yeah, get it over with."
You know how Joker talks about his family that lives on a farm way out on the outskirts of civilized space?
You know that PTSD Asari at the Citadel Hospital that talks about how she was stranded on a farm way out on the edges of civilized space?
The girl she rescued, accompanied, ended up killing the indoctrinated family of, and eventually murdered to keep her crying from alerting nearby enemies was named Hillary.
Joker's sister is named Hillary.
That Asari Commando with PTSD in the Citadel Hospital killed Joker's entire family, and none of the characters even know its happened. But the really terrifying part was when I realized what this meant for the implications of the "Allow the patient to have a gun" option that comes up at the Spectre Terminal.
She probably *knows*.
She spent several days with Hillary. They probably had a bit of a rapport going. Hillary would would be worried sick about the family that she knows is on the farm and the brother who's personal pilot to the famous Commander Shepard and doing who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if the Asari get to know Hillary pretty well, and lots of trivia about her family members.
And how could you not mention you brother is best friends with Commander Shepard? And I bet he's famous enough at this point that the Asari knows who he is. So she stages this rescue mission, and it goes bad, and she kills the family. And then, to save herself, probably thinking it won't even buy her that much more time anyway, she kills Hillary.
By some miracle, she's rescued, and she ends up back on the Citadel. But, she knows who she's killed. And she can't take it. She wants out. She knows. And every time Shepard walks through the lobby she *knows.* And every time we pause over her or her doctor's shoulder, listening to this story we think is totally unrelated to us, she's panicking inside. "Does Shepard know? Does Shepard know I know he knows!?" And she keeps pleading for the gun nobody will let her have.
And then, one day, an orderly gives her a package.
"Special Spectre Authorization"
A gun. Straight from Commander Shepard.
To most of us, hitting X on that report was just "paperwork."
But to her, especially if you played a Renegade Shep, we might've basically been saying "Yeah, get it over with."
Karak
Member
Well I am glad you think that. Congrats for sure.
Ok?
Karak
Member
Ya this is a pretty good analogy. If we added 2 talking monkeys in there it would add that idiotic chaotic effect that I felt at the end as well. Poorly written, poorly executed, poorly planned bullshit...is, in the end, just bullshit.
I don't even care that Shepherd made the ultimate sacrifice and all that jazz. It is the end of his tale and that is acceptable.
Here are my issues:
- It is the way it played out with no real choice of an ending like a good role playing game would offer.
- It is the vagueness of the mysterious spirit-kid nonsense that seems like it was pulled out of someone else's ass and slapped right in where it just don't belong.
- It was the non-closure for the remaining crew and the sudden cliffhanger "stay tuned" ending.
In short, it is like they made a delicious chocolate cake, but smeared feces on for icing. No doubt will be disappointment of the year for me. As for the supposed conclusion to a great series? Probably the disappointment of the generation.
Here are my issues:
- It is the way it played out with no real choice of an ending like a good role playing game would offer.
- It is the vagueness of the mysterious spirit-kid nonsense that seems like it was pulled out of someone else's ass and slapped right in where it just don't belong.
- It was the non-closure for the remaining crew and the sudden cliffhanger "stay tuned" ending.
In short, it is like they made a delicious chocolate cake, but smeared feces on for icing. No doubt will be disappointment of the year for me. As for the supposed conclusion to a great series? Probably the disappointment of the generation.
Woah.
WrenchNinja
Member
Goddamn it Joker.
I may be wrong, but it seemed like just using the Crucible at all meant that the relays would be destroyed as whatever you were sending out passed through them. Not really a benefit, just a consequence. Still frustrating though. If they were going to go with a Deus Ex style ending, which personally I'm not totally against on principle, there should at least be a choice that saves the relays or even willingly allows for the Reaper harvest to continue. If you're not wrestling with the options at the end, what's the point?
Karak
Member
Sadly and in addition to all you wrote, I feel that a happy ending would be fine. And lets be honest it aint that happy. Billions dead, worlds destroyed, your friends culled before your eyes. But we stood up, faced down demonds, we did everything that that Bioware alluded to as...mattering...and nothing mattered.
And the ultimate sacrifice isn't made because Shepard is found breathing in the last cutscene. Basically long story short, the ending is just broken bullshit.
For me having the fake 3 way decision at the ending seemed like some kind of late change and they had plans for a normal ending and when they jumped the ship we got this...abortion.
posted this in the Steam thread by accident 
hope I didn't spoil anything for anyone in there.
I didn't want to get spoiled on the From Ashes stuff, so I've stayed away from the DLC debacle discussions. I was kinda spoiled before, knew it was something prothean related, but I just figured it would be a mission and you find something neat and it's not a huge deal.
But realizing it's a god damn living Prothean playable character... how the fuck do you leave something like that out of the main plot? Shouldn't that be a giant plot point in the realm of Mass Effect and knowing how referenced the protheans are?
Can I just youtube the mission/discovery/whatever of this character or can one of you kind folks just give a synopsis of where the hell he comes from.
hope I didn't spoil anything for anyone in there. I didn't want to get spoiled on the From Ashes stuff, so I've stayed away from the DLC debacle discussions. I was kinda spoiled before, knew it was something prothean related, but I just figured it would be a mission and you find something neat and it's not a huge deal.
But realizing it's a god damn living Prothean playable character... how the fuck do you leave something like that out of the main plot? Shouldn't that be a giant plot point in the realm of Mass Effect and knowing how referenced the protheans are?
Can I just youtube the mission/discovery/whatever of this character or can one of you kind folks just give a synopsis of where the hell he comes from.
Holy shit. Incredible. I always listened to her but never put that together.
Another story I liked was the taurien c-sec guy looking after the girl waiting for her parents in the docks. Every time she just got less and less confident that they were coming.
I missed it, but did they ever come or did she hear they died? Was it just left ambiguous?
EmCeeGramr
Member
I know that's WHY they exploded, I just mean I've seen some people say that it's a good thing the relays were destroyed because they were Reaper made.
Left ambiguous, I went back every time I was on the Citadel to hear the next 'step' in the conversation.
Eventually the Turian said something like, 'Do you mind if I come and check on you some time?', and then it just looped back to the beginning.
No matter how cliche' it may be, I feel it most definitely should have been an option in order to make the game more balanced and pleasing to all parties. Indeed there was enough death and destruction, why not give the option to have Shepherd and his crew save the day despite all the losses, and live happily ever after? Would be a fitting conclusion for many and would only add replay value at that.
The Incarnation
Member
The Vorcha did, they'll be kicking arse in the next cycle...
GrandHarrier
Member
Wrong. Destroy is the only logical paragon ending. It sucks that Edi and the Geth have to sacrifice themselves for it, but you save countless civilizations and every other civilization that will ever be.
The looping bugged me. Especially with that girl who wanted to fight the Reapers because her brother was in Cerberus. Because you were forced to run past her to get on the Normandy, I swear I heard her full story at least 3 times.
I wasn't the only person to shoot at a Keeper in the Bloody Tunnel, was I?
Too bad nothing happened.
Interesting about that stuff on Joker's Family. Didn't even heard the PSTD patient on my run through, but saw her on the replay I started last night.
Question: Would the QEC's (the blue hologram comm link) work without the Mass Relay's? If you went with an ending that didn't destroy all/most of the technology, could they be used to communicate with people across the galaxy. Perhaps to coordinate building new mass relay's at the same time, to allow (eventually) galactic travel? I wondered if you'd need to have 2 finished relay's, to travel.
What I did like, was that Bioware pulled no punches on the apocalyptic end. No one got a good ending.
Besides the destruction of the mass relays, and the unknown fates of most of your crew (besides Joker, Your Love, and either EDI or Garrus? (well, Garrus on mine, anyway), what I want to know most about is: What happened to the people that were on the Citadel? Commander Bailey!!!!!!!
Too bad nothing happened.
Interesting about that stuff on Joker's Family. Didn't even heard the PSTD patient on my run through, but saw her on the replay I started last night.
Question: Would the QEC's (the blue hologram comm link) work without the Mass Relay's? If you went with an ending that didn't destroy all/most of the technology, could they be used to communicate with people across the galaxy. Perhaps to coordinate building new mass relay's at the same time, to allow (eventually) galactic travel? I wondered if you'd need to have 2 finished relay's, to travel.
What I did like, was that Bioware pulled no punches on the apocalyptic end. No one got a good ending.
Besides the destruction of the mass relays, and the unknown fates of most of your crew (besides Joker, Your Love, and either EDI or Garrus? (well, Garrus on mine, anyway), what I want to know most about is: What happened to the people that were on the Citadel? Commander Bailey!!!!!!!
Karak
Member
Correct. Anyone saying that it was a happy ending, needs to look up the word happy. It also fit in perfectly with the entire narrative which was that standing up, always moving forward, and doing everything, will be rewarded.
And again if its cliche'd, well so is the last scene with a character taking a breath or moving in the rubble. But one matters and pays off 5 years and 100's of hours of time...the other is a fucking cutscene of bullshit.
Synthesis meant no destruction, killing etc.. and created 'peace' between synthetics and organics, seeing as they were now 'one' - that's how I interpreted.
There's no 'wrong' answer anyway, it's a game about choice. Well, it was until the end.
Yup, that bloody line that her superior officer kept saying... something like, 'Have you found a way for ships to use FTL without eezo, private?'. Eugh.
rollingstart
Banned
there are a lot of nice minor stories on the citadel that can be missed, like Liara's father (and Liara being 1/4th krogan) and cerberus executing Kelly during the attack.
QEC has nothing to do with the Mass Relays. They're partially based on real science, in which actual scientists have managed to separate two atoms that are connected in some way (I forget how) over a long distance, manipulate one, and had the other react the exact same way as the manipulated one.
See: Quantum Entanglement
The downside is that you can't use it to communicate with just anyone. You need matching receivers.
djplaeskool
Member
I'm amused by the prospect of there being a bunch of Krogan stranded on Palaven (Trebia system).
Didn't even see Kelly, though I know she lived through my ME2 ending. But seems like you can actually make a choice that lets her live through ME3 (changing her identity)
How is control not the only logical paragon ending? Instead of murdering the Geth and EDI(who by the way, helped you along the way), you sacrifice yourself instead.
Well that's 3 of us now thinking each of the 3 endings is the 'Paragon' choice - that's how fucked it is.
GrandHarrier
Member
I was half joking. Of course I realize there is no wrong answer. But after everything the Reapers had done, they deserved to be destroyed, utterly. That was the one small pleasure I took out of the ending to the game.
Synthesis doesn't make any fucking sense to me. First of all, how? How the fuck does it work? How is it different from just being organic or synthetic? You have circuit boards in you or some shit? And why does that suddenly make people not fight one another?
Not to mention, peace had been achieved already. I (you) united the races beneath your banner in defiance against the Reapers.
Because then the Reapers still exist? Their crimes go unpunished. Their "sins" allowed to be validated.
Good times!
From what I've read, you had to have had dinner with Kelly in ME2 to have her show up in ME3 (she didn't show up in mine).
Control is the renegade ending. The IM argued for it, and he represents renegade.
It takes a similar amount of resolution as a boss fight to withstand the awful ending conversations.
I don't recall the scene with someone moving in the rubble. All I got was just the Mass Relays being destroyed and the Normandy being warped to some lush planet, then the door slides open and the credits roll. After the credits, it showed the story telling scene with the old man and child in the future.
That doesn't mean anything. He was obviously doing it for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't make much sense for their to be a paragon option to unite the quarians and the geth, to allow EDI to keep her body and introduce her to emotions, just to kill them in the end instead of yourself. There are no negatives to the control option. You basically commit genocide in the destroy option lol.
Apparently you need to have active assets greater than 5000, and to pick a non-synthesis ending.
Your mistake is looking for sense in the ending.
The Librarian
Banned
I think the destruction of the relays leaves the galaxy in an interesting position, but what I don't get is if the relays exploded, why didn't they destroy the systems they were in?
After sleeping on it I've gone from being just baffled to increasingly angry. I'll echo the sentiments that basically after hundreds of hours invested in the series, I don't think it's too much to ask for to have a "happy" ending; even if Shepard dies, can we do it without destroying galactic civilization? And at the very least could we have found out what happened to everyone? It seems that regardless of which ending you choose, you just get the quick montage of Joker, Anderson, and Liara (assuming this is your love interest, but it's been Liara in every youtube ending version I've watched so no idea). Then in the endings when you see who comes out of the Normandy you only get Joker, EDI (if you choose the non-destroy options) or a random party member, and then your love interest. Let's ignore the fact that nothing about them being on the Normandy makes much sense; Bioware has asked players to invest in the series and carry their saves over; yet no matter what ending you choose regardless of if it's "happy" or not, you don't get to find out what happened to 90% of the people you've built relationships with. It's fucking retarded.
-Boobs in this game are hilarious. Liara looks like that fucking Japanese statue from a while back; there was a custcene where it showed her holding something at an angle, and I thought it was her shoulder blocking the camera until I realized it was one of her breasts. Holy fucking shit Bioware. Also the Diana/Jessica Chobot thing is shady as all fuck, and ignoring that the character looks hideous. Also boobs.
-Kai Leng was an awful villain. You see him like, twice before the end, and unless you're fully invested in the outside lore there's zero background for him in the game, so the whole time I was wondering why the fuck should I really care about this dude. His banter with Shepard was awful. I have no idea what they were going for here.
-Not being able to save Moridin unless you made the decision to kill Wrex in the first game was stupid. Apparently Bioware only allows fans to save one of their favorite characters! I would have been totally fine if Moridin always dies no matter what, but the fact that they give you an out by making a shitty decision in the first game is awful.
-The Rachni wound up being irrelevant, and bums me out more than any of my imported choices. I remember having conversations with my friends when ME1 came out about how it would be awesome if in the final game because we saved the Queen a shitload of Rachni would show up at the end to help us out. Instead our choice was made irrelevant, and even if you save her both times nothing of the sort happens (unless it occurred briefly in a CG I missed or something).
-Likewise Aria wound up to be largely irrelevant. This one may be just me, but I kept expecting more to happen with her that didn't.
-I want to spoiler this because I'm not sure everyone caught it, so I'll try to be vague in the spoiler: Can you only have the one conversation with Liara
-Remember all those talks with Harbinger in ME2? Never happens in 3, totally irrelevant. You don't even get a cool cinematic of him exploding or something like that if you choose that ending. What the fuck.
-The Joker/EDI thing was creepy as fuck. I flip-flopped a few times between it being weird and it being funny, but have finally settled on creepy. I carried Jahvik and EDI the whole game, and wound up really liking EDI by the end, but the whole relationship thing was kinda jacked and felt forced.
I feel like I could go on and on, but it's just bumming me out. I actually like the multiplayer, but I've seen way too many people hit with the reset bug to put any time into it until they gets fixed. After the shitshow that was Dragon Age 2 ME3 was Bioware's make or break game for me, and it broke. I feel like all of that time and investment literally didn't mean jack shit. This is maybe the first time where I have been legitimately angry at a game/developer; everyone talks about how on-disc DLC is bullshit and things like that (which it is), but I think this is the first time where I have actually had an actual emotional response to a game that makes me want to punch them in the face. So good job on that front Bioware, I guess.
I was wondering about this as well. But then I figured after the space magic bullshit of the endings, they could probably explain it away by saying it was a different type of force than slamming an asteroid into it. Which is probably fair actually, but after everything else that goes down I'm not going to waste the time trying to make sense of that small of a thing in the grand scheme of things.
-Boobs in this game are hilarious. Liara looks like that fucking Japanese statue from a while back; there was a custcene where it showed her holding something at an angle, and I thought it was her shoulder blocking the camera until I realized it was one of her breasts. Holy fucking shit Bioware. Also the Diana/Jessica Chobot thing is shady as all fuck, and ignoring that the character looks hideous. Also boobs.
-Kai Leng was an awful villain. You see him like, twice before the end, and unless you're fully invested in the outside lore there's zero background for him in the game, so the whole time I was wondering why the fuck should I really care about this dude. His banter with Shepard was awful. I have no idea what they were going for here.
-Not being able to save Moridin unless you made the decision to kill Wrex in the first game was stupid. Apparently Bioware only allows fans to save one of their favorite characters! I would have been totally fine if Moridin always dies no matter what, but the fact that they give you an out by making a shitty decision in the first game is awful.
-The Rachni wound up being irrelevant, and bums me out more than any of my imported choices. I remember having conversations with my friends when ME1 came out about how it would be awesome if in the final game because we saved the Queen a shitload of Rachni would show up at the end to help us out. Instead our choice was made irrelevant, and even if you save her both times nothing of the sort happens (unless it occurred briefly in a CG I missed or something).
-Likewise Aria wound up to be largely irrelevant. This one may be just me, but I kept expecting more to happen with her that didn't.
-I want to spoiler this because I'm not sure everyone caught it, so I'll try to be vague in the spoiler: Can you only have the one conversation with Liara
's father?........
-Remember all those talks with Harbinger in ME2? Never happens in 3, totally irrelevant. You don't even get a cool cinematic of him exploding or something like that if you choose that ending. What the fuck.
-The Joker/EDI thing was creepy as fuck. I flip-flopped a few times between it being weird and it being funny, but have finally settled on creepy. I carried Jahvik and EDI the whole game, and wound up really liking EDI by the end, but the whole relationship thing was kinda jacked and felt forced.
I feel like I could go on and on, but it's just bumming me out. I actually like the multiplayer, but I've seen way too many people hit with the reset bug to put any time into it until they gets fixed. After the shitshow that was Dragon Age 2 ME3 was Bioware's make or break game for me, and it broke. I feel like all of that time and investment literally didn't mean jack shit. This is maybe the first time where I have been legitimately angry at a game/developer; everyone talks about how on-disc DLC is bullshit and things like that (which it is), but I think this is the first time where I have actually had an actual emotional response to a game that makes me want to punch them in the face. So good job on that front Bioware, I guess.
I was wondering about this as well. But then I figured after the space magic bullshit of the endings, they could probably explain it away by saying it was a different type of force than slamming an asteroid into it. Which is probably fair actually, but after everything else that goes down I'm not going to waste the time trying to make sense of that small of a thing in the grand scheme of things.
I see. Mine was only around 3500. Guess my Shepherd is indeed toast then, which is just as well. Horrible closure to an otherwise great series, but it is closure nonetheless.
I felt bad that Kelly got a bullet in her head. Now that I can change it I want to try to. Also, where's the scene about liaras father take place?
Her father (Aethyta) is an Asari bartender in that cafe on the Citadel that Liara can be found near to in the first half of the game. You can talk to Aethyta then convince Liara to go and talk to her.
Holy shit, are you serious? What the fuck BioWare.
The Breath in the Rubble is some sort of "perfect ending" which I don't know what you have to do, to get it.
It's weird, all 3 ending's can work. I know "Control" is renegade, since TIM wanted it (and the Reaper's don't get "punished"), but I assumed that Shepard's command to the reapers was to go back to dark space and lay dormant forever. Something like that. Yeah, they don't get blown up, but they're just machines. Get them the hell out of there, for good. Let the last death they cause be Shepard.
Destroy feels good, but yeah, you screw EDI and the Geth (though my game, they had already died...couldn't let Tali die :/ ), and potentially "de-tech" everyone.
The other option, is...well, kind of like the Control option, only except Shepard doesn't die the same way..
It's weird, all 3 ending's can work. I know "Control" is renegade, since TIM wanted it (and the Reaper's don't get "punished"), but I assumed that Shepard's command to the reapers was to go back to dark space and lay dormant forever. Something like that. Yeah, they don't get blown up, but they're just machines. Get them the hell out of there, for good. Let the last death they cause be Shepard.
Destroy feels good, but yeah, you screw EDI and the Geth (though my game, they had already died...couldn't let Tali die :/ ), and potentially "de-tech" everyone.
The other option, is...well, kind of like the Control option, only except Shepard doesn't die the same way..
Her father is the Asari bartender at the cafe on the Presidium Commons.
No, you can save Mordin if you saved Wrex in ME1. You just have to kill Wrex in ME3. Appropriate.
At some point (I think in the second half of the game but may be remembering wrong) if you go to the bar in the Presidium Commons at the cafe (where you have dinner with Kaiden and find Liara initially sitting at the table) you find them there. It's the same Asari bartender from Illium in ME2 (which they explain). I only had one conversation with them there, and I encouraged them to tell Liara but nothing came of it that I ever saw.
Yeah, should have clarified that one has to die period (not just in ME1). Considering that Wrex is such a huge fan favorite, I'm still really baffled that the default in ME2 and ME3 is that he's dead.
GrandHarrier
Member
I don't think this is fair. Mordin's ending is very, very good. I don't need him to be alive for the sake of being alive. The way he redeems himself is fucking beautiful and I say it is a disservice to his character to try and deny it.
Curious, who died in ME2 for the default Shepard?
Yeah, for the core story stuff, Mordin's death is the highpoint.
Thane's death is also handled really well, especially if you're a FemShep. I love the way that it's revealed that he was praying for you, not for him.
Yeah, for the core story stuff, Mordin's death is the highpoint.
Thane's death is also handled really well, especially if you're a FemShep. I love the way that it's revealed that he was praying for you, not for him.
I cant kill them man. After seeing what happened to them in the past then how quickly they started to help the quarians, can't do it.
Thanks for the replies on liaras father too
How does he die?
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