Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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He'll probably be dream of some kid in his indoctrinated delusion.

BW could always release a book or another game that would explain more in the future. Being Shepard in this series we only learn what he learned, so in a way in his rush to stop the reapers he didn't ask grandaddy repear for a 3 day story while his allies got slaughtered below. I am sure BW would explain themselves without rewriting the ending.
 
They'll just set ME4 a thousand years in the future.

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The Game
 
Doubtful it will be a direct continuation with Shepard done for, maybe more like Halo. Different perspective such as another Spectre or a prequel being a Prothean or the race that created the reapers.
 
When I really think about my favorite game endings, there are a few things in common with all of them except for one: they all wrap things up. Uncharted 2, 3, ME1, and MGS3 all tie up all of the loose ends of their respective narratives with the Uncharted games intentionally being the "riding off into the sunset" variety and MGS3 going into more depth about the game. In the end, all relevant story lines where either explained, wrapped up, or thoughtfully teased for a future game. Compare all of these with ME3 and you get nothing of the sort. There is no emotional high that the player leaves on and the various plot elements are left entirely open and unexplained. The only other game that did that (and did it successfully) was Half Life 2 (and the Episodes with the ending to 2 being the most haunting ending I have see in a videogame) but it was successful because Valve understood that less is more. Bioware's ending felt sloppy and unsatisfying, which is a terrible combination.
 
Damn, the scene leaving Mars is so damn good. The music is just amazing, and the reapers dropping down while you retreat gave me chills. The fact they were able to nail the smaller scenes like that makes the ending that much worse.
 
I think ME4 could happen. I don't know why it would, but it could.

It would be too much like MGS4 in which it tries to explain things so much that your face melts, but thankfully the lasers have done that already.
 
I think I found a potential issue with the indoctrination theory while replaying the Cerberus Base mission: the Prothean VI asks if you're recovering him from indoctrinated forces, but he never indicates Shepard is indoctrinated.

It's a shame, because other than this, the theory seemed perfect.

I guess it's still possible though, and this is a plot hole... or maybe Shepard just isn't indoctrinated enough to for the VI to detect it.

No idea what to think now.

I know this topic has been discussed quite a bit already, but I just found a datapad near Liara in London that seems to suggest people on Earth are being indoctrinated by the Reapers. So the Prothean VI not detecting (or mentioning) Shepard's indoctrination doesn't necessarily disprove that theory.

I'm too lazy to type out what it says, but it seems like a message being taken as someone is being indoctrinated, and they're gradually becoming more hysterical.

Not sure how the dreams would fit into this though (if at all).
 
My gf is almost done with the game, just rewatched the part where you first go through the Sol Relay. That has to be the coolest moment in the series, my god the possibilities! If that just went on for 30 minutes with all your choices being reflected in the battle. I'd be a happy mofo.

SO MANY SHIPS!!! I'm ordering the shitty Star Wars trilogy on bluray now just for the space combat.

Commander Shepard is Captain Sheridan? Ghost Kid is Vorlon? Reapers are Shadows?
 
I'm just surprised that people expected a standard happy ending from this. The whole series has been setting up that these space croissants were a bit rigged in abilities. The whole 3rd game shows each race getting their asses handed to them and the only hope is a mysterious device that might do something...

Sure I'd love for an option for an ending that was less abstract... but would an everyone cheering star wars style ending work here?

Pretty much the main theme of the entire franchise is that Shepard is put into impossible situation after impossible situation, each one appearing more intractable than the last, and every single time walks out without taking more than some light battle damage.

You never automatically get the happy ending (ie: You can lose some/most/all of your crew in the suicide mission, the peace you broker between the Turians, Krogan, and Salarians isn't always stable, you don't always get to patch things up between the Geth and the Quarians), but your inability to do so is always limited by your own choices and action/inaction. That theme was carried through all the way to the end of ME3, where your choices had a huge impact on how strong your final assembled fleet was. It would absolutely have been thematically appropriate to have at least one variant on the ending where Shepard is able to pull through, not without sigificant losses, but with few enough losses that the ending could legitimately be celebrated.

Instead, the rug is pulled out from under you at the end, a God Baby shows up out of nowhere and tells you that you can't win, and for the first time in the entire franchise, Shepard just meekly rolls over and goes "Oh, okay" without trying to fight it. Despite the fact that the villain's entire motivation is based on an idea that is diametrically opposed to one of the franchise's major themes, there's no option to even try to talk God Baby out of it. Three games repeatedly reinforcing the notion that synthetic and organic life can peacefully coexist, and that's wiped off the table by a shitty (literal) deus ex machina without so much as a "Wait, what?"
In every ending, the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, and this is brought up for the very first time in literally the last five minutes of the game, and Shepard doesn't even comment on it, let alone try to avoid dooming billions and billions of people.


Ewoks dancing in the Citadel's streets - literally Ewoks, from Star Wars - would not be any further removed from the rest of the franchise's story than the endings that were put in the game. An unqualified happy, storybook ending would have been far more appropriate than the shit they piled onto the plate.
 
Damn, the scene leaving Mars is so damn good. The music is just amazing, and the reapers dropping down while you retreat gave me chills. The fact they were able to nail the smaller scenes like that makes the ending that much worse.

Agreed. Leaving Earth, leaving Mars, Thane's death, Mordin's death, Liara's timecapsule, looking at infinity with Liara, and so many other scenes all nailed the emotions of the moment through a combination of music, dialogue, and art design. In the face of the rest of the game, the ending doesn't seem possible.
 
Agreed. Leaving Earth, leaving Mars, Thane's death, Mordin's death, Liara's timecapsule, looking at infinity with Liara, and so many other scenes all nailed the emotions of the moment through a combination of music, dialogue, and art design. In the face of the rest of the game, the ending doesn't seem possible.
All these moments had me like this, maybe I should edit out the first panel. :P

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The ending left me like that, but for the wrong reasons.
 
I think ME4 could happen. I don't know why it would, but it could.

More Mass Effect will happen. It's inevitable. The series sells too well and BioWare is too invested to let it go now. The synergy ending was certainly an attempt to rebuild the state of the game's universe, kill Shepard's trilogy, and lay foundations for something new. If they actually go with the whole Organic/Synthetic hybrid...thing...they basically have framework to create new everything. Not just new lore/universe stuff, but new mechanics (eg: classes) too.
 
Agreed. Leaving Earth, leaving Mars, Thane's death, Mordin's death, Liara's timecapsule, looking at infinity with Liara, and so many other scenes all nailed the emotions of the moment through a combination of music, dialogue, and art design. In the face of the rest of the game, the ending doesn't seem possible.

The best way to describe it was that they cashed in on almost every plotline they established, while somehow making it feel relevant to the story and war at large. I felt that connection to the characters and outcome of their stories because I dictated what happened to them and their story. Liara's development throughout the series was brilliant, as was Garrus's, and all that is centered around you, I really felt that it happened because of my influence.

Yet somehow they managed to fuck up the most important part of the entire series, which was making sure that everything I had worked for mattered. They robbed you of fighting against the reapers at the end with a reveal of a greater power at work. The whole war against the reapers was supposed to be about defying the odds. Bioware seemed to get it totally backwards. They managed to end things in a way where I felt stripped of influence altogether.
 
Agreed. Leaving Earth, leaving Mars, Thane's death, Mordin's death, Liara's timecapsule, looking at infinity with Liara, and so many other scenes all nailed the emotions of the moment through a combination of music, dialogue, and art design. In the face of the rest of the game, the ending doesn't seem possible.

I'm Garrus Vakarian and this is my favourie spot on the Citadel.
 
More Mass Effect will happen. It's inevitable. The series sells too well and BioWare is too invested to let it go now. The synergy ending was certainly an attempt to rebuild the state of the game's universe, kill Shepard's trilogy, and lay foundations for something new. If they actually go with the whole Organic/Synthetic hybrid...thing...they basically have framework to create new everything. Not just new lore/universe stuff, but new mechanics (eg: classes) too.
I know more ME could happen, but wouldn't it spiral into something else? Without the Mass relays, would it even be called Mass Effect? I mean, I guess I could relate to a human-robot hybrid or some other alien hybrid, but it wouldn't be as it is now.

Hybrid Effect? Hybrid Theory? Oh damn, Linkin Park again.
 
Pretty much the main theme of the entire franchise is that Shepard is put into impossible situation after impossible situation, each one appearing more intractable than the last, and every single time walks out without taking more than some light battle damage.

You never automatically get the happy ending (ie: You can lose some/most/all of your crew in the suicide mission, the peace you broker between the Turians, Krogan, and Salarians isn't always stable, you don't always get to patch things up between the Geth and the Quarians), but your inability to do so is always limited by your own choices and action/inaction. That theme was carried through all the way to the end of ME3, where your choices had a huge impact on how strong your final assembled fleet was. It would absolutely have been thematically appropriate to have at least one variant on the ending where Shepard is able to pull through, not without sigificant losses, but with few enough losses that the ending could legitimately be celebrated.

Instead, the rug is pulled out from under you at the end, a God Baby shows up out of nowhere and tells you that you can't win, and for the first time in the entire franchise, Shepard just meekly rolls over and goes "Oh, okay" without trying to fight it. Despite the fact that the villain's entire motivation is based on an idea that is diametrically opposed to one of the franchise's major themes, there's no option to even try to talk God Baby out of it. Three games repeatedly reinforcing the notion that synthetic and organic life can peacefully coexist, and that's wiped off the table by a shitty (literal) deus ex machina without so much as a "Wait, what?"
In every ending, the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, and this is brought up for the very first time in literally the last five minutes of the game, and Shepard doesn't even comment on it, let alone try to avoid dooming billions and billions of people.


Ewoks dancing in the Citadel's streets - literally Ewoks, from Star Wars - would not be any further removed from the rest of the franchise's story than the endings that were put in the game. An unqualified happy, storybook ending would have been far more appropriate than the shit they piled onto the plate.

hmmm... wouldn't that be the ending in which shepard takes control of the reapers?

Did the synthetic ending, so I'm not sure how that one plays out.

But with how the game is put together... I guess all the endings are vague nonsense?


btw: was this in some book or something that explained how Cerberus went from a little terrorist group, to space racist homies, to crazy bad guys that are popping out of clown cars? Storm troopers.

And did they ever go back to the whole 'these cerebrus troops have geth face' on mars?
 
btw: was this in some book or something that explained how Cerberus went from a little terrorist group, to space racist homies, to crazy bad guys that are popping out of clown cars? Storm troopers.

And did they ever go back to the whole 'these cerebrus troops have geth face' on mars?

I think they just made them super rich after ME1... since there was no real indication these guys were some massive force that could invade the Citadel with no problem.

And it comes up when they go to Horizon.
 
btw: was this in some book or something that explained how Cerberus went from a little terrorist group, to space racist homies, to crazy bad guys that are popping out of clown cars? Storm troopers.

And did they ever go back to the whole 'these cerebrus troops have geth face' on mars?

Illusive man started to use Reaper tech to "enhance" his troops. The settlement you go to near the end of the game shows that they basically turned the whole population into Cerberus troopers.

Illusive Man slowly got indoctrinated over time.

He's this games Saren. (not exactly the most subtle observation I know)
 
And a question for pre ending. Why the fuck did everyone just chill around when Kai Leng was hobbling toward shepard dragging his space sword on the ground? EDI got some super senses right?

BTW: Anyone here play Infinite Space? Similar ending, except you fight RROD. I felt that resolved things a bit better though. hmmm..
 
More Mass Effect will happen. It's inevitable. The series sells too well and BioWare is too invested to let it go now. The synergy ending was certainly an attempt to rebuild the state of the game's universe, kill Shepard's trilogy, and lay foundations for something new. If they actually go with the whole Organic/Synthetic hybrid...thing...they basically have framework to create new everything. Not just new lore/universe stuff, but new mechanics (eg: classes) too.

The framework is already there. The Reapers are just part of the cycle which means they aren't the real master. The next trilogy could be about finding / dealing with them. BW just needed a way to remove Shepard from the equation. There are better ways to accomplish that. One way could be Shepard saves the universe, peace is restore and rides off into the sunset. The next trilogy starts 100 years afterward...
 
You are thinking about it too hard. As previously mentioned I too wanted Shepard to yell GET THE HELL OUT THE FOR OUR GALAXY!

When the "theme" order/chaos came up, I couldn't avoid thinking about Babylon 5 and how I really wanted that response, hehehe.

Now, "Sleeping in Light", *that* was a bittersweet ending for me.

Also: Vorlon were glowy white things... so Vorlons = Space kid/Catalyst?
 
When the "theme" order/chaos came up, I couldn't avoid thinking about Babylon 5 and how I really wanted that response, hehehe.

Now, "Sleeping in Light", *that* was a bittersweet ending for me.

Also: Vorlon were glowy white things... so Vorlons = Space kid/Catalyst?

The Vorlons appeared however they wanted. That's what I loved about that conflict, neither side was right or wrong, they just got in the way. That's why they both got the boot.
 
The framework is already there. The Reapers are just part of the cycle which means they aren't the real master. The next trilogy could be about finding / dealing with them. BW just needed a way to remove Shepard from the equation. There are better ways to accomplish that. One way could be Shepard saves the universe, peace is restore and rides off into the sunset. The next trilogy starts 100 years afterward...

I wasn't arguing that the new framework was necessary, but that this was probably BioWare's intentions for future ME games.
 
The framework is already there. The Reapers are just part of the cycle which means they aren't the real master. The next trilogy could be about finding / dealing with them. BW just needed a way to remove Shepard from the equation. There are many better ways to do it. One way could be, Shepard saves the universe, peace is restore and rides off into the sunset. The next trilogy starts 100 years afterward...

I don't know what you mean by master. The catalyst was the current master because he controls the reapers. Since he is destroyed at the end of the game, there is no longer one. It could take thousands of years for synthetic life to become advanced enough to start the cycle over again.
 
Way more badass to just ignore him. (That scene was ridiculous/hilarious)

Lol Kai leng was ridiculous and completely out of place in the universe. So he had to die a dumb death.


Quick question. Is it possible to survive the grab moves from the big dudes and the asari geth things? That defend the missiles thing at the end was infuriating as a vanguard.
 
hmmm... wouldn't that be the ending in which shepard takes control of the reapers?

Did the synthetic ending, so I'm not sure how that one plays out.

But with how the game is put together... I guess all the endings are vague nonsense?


btw: was this in some book or something that explained how Cerberus went from a little terrorist group, to space racist homies, to crazy bad guys that are popping out of clown cars? Storm troopers.

And did they ever go back to the whole 'these cerebrus troops have geth face' on mars?

The 'best' ending is the Control one, yeah. It's not really any different than the Synthesis ending, mind you - the explosion is blue instead of green, and nobody has green glowy circuit boards on their skin in the Jungle Planet scene - but since it sorta involves Shepard forcibly rewriting the nature of all galactic life, I find it a little less palatable overall. (Though to be fair, we have no idea just what in the fuck exactly it's supposed to actually be doing. It could basically range from everyone being part of the same hivemind consciousness to absolutely nothing besides glowing green eyes and skin.)


As far as Cerberus goes, it's actually covered in ME3, when you look at the terminals with video logs in the Cerberus base. Basically, they were always super evil bastards, in ME1, 2, and 3, but in ME2, the Illusive Man went out of his way to give Shepard the impression that they're a noble group with questionable goals, by filling the ship with sympathetic figures like the friendly cook and engineers, Kelly Chambers, he specifically went out of his way to hire Dr. Chakwas and Joker to give Shepard some familiar faces, etc. It's a pretty obvious retcon, but I thought it actually worked fairly well.

Then in ME3, it does seem really strange that Cerberus suddenly has enough manpower to directly oppose the Alliance military, and the huskified trooper goes untouched for quite a while, but it's basically explained once you get to Sanctuary on Horizon: Cerberus's new army is a direct result of duping people into coming to Sanctuary for refuge, and then performing huskification/Indoctrination experiments on them to create an army.
 
The framework is already there. The Reapers are just part of the cycle which means they aren't the real master. The next trilogy could be about finding / dealing with them.
Dealing with whom? There was no inclination that anything beyond the Reapers exist -- except for the catalyst who seems to appear whenever a space ball is created. Their face-value intentions on stopping organics are already presented so there's nothing more to uncover about them.

To travel 10 million years in the past would be pointless.
 
Can't believe after hurting Kai Leng, Shepard would sit down typing something on the keyboard with his back towards him. Hell, the other two squad members are just walking aronud not paying attention like that big arse fight never happened.
 
I really disliked that Cerberus ended up getting indoctrinated, i liked their role in ME2 as the rogue group that got things done by reasonable, but still questionable methods. Here they were just straight up evil. The Illusive man didn't deserve to be used the way he did, it would've been awesome if he were forced to begrudgingly work together with Hackett since he has the unlimited resources and jurisdiction to do what the alliance can't. Plus I really liked his character in ME2, disagreeing with Shepard at times but having a ton of respect for him/her. I always enjoyed the scene before you go through the relay and talk to TIM because it was a good culmination of their relationship.
 
I don't know what you mean by master. The catalyst was the current master because he controls the reapers. Since he is destroyed at the end of the game, there is no longer one. It could take thousands of years for synthetic life to become advanced enough to start the cycle over again.

From what I got from the story, the game implies there's a more powerful force then the Reaper / Catalyst since they are control by the cycle. "Master" entity design the cycle for what? Answer in next ME trilogy?
 
I really disliked that Cerberus ended up getting indoctrinated, i liked their role in ME2 as the rogue group that things done by reasonable, but still questionable method. Here they were just straight up evil. The Illusive man didn't deserve to be used the way he did, it would'vr been awesome if he were forced to begrudgingly work together with Hackett since he has the limited resources and jurisdiction to do what the alliance can't. Plus I really liked his character in ME2, disagreeing with Shepard at times but having a ton of respect for him/her. I always liked the scene before you go through the relay and talk to TIM.

I don't know, I didn't mind it. I felt BioWare had written themselves into a bit of a hole with Cerberus, and as cheap as TIM becoming indoctrinated is, it fit their MO of playing with technology/genetics they cant control.
 
Way more badass to just ignore him. (That scene was ridiculous/hilarious)

Are you guy talking about the scene in Illusive man lair? That scene was awesome! Well, at least LumpOfCole version was.


The Vorlons appeared however they wanted. That's what I loved about that conflict, neither side was right or wrong, they just got in the way. That's why they both got the boot.

Agreed. I remember finding that resolution a little strange, but a little thinking and it made perfect sense. But thinking about the ending of ME3 isn't help me now, hehehe.
 
From what I got from the story, the game implies there's a more powerful force then the Reaper / Catalyst since they are control by the cycle. "Master" entity design the cycle for what? Answer in next ME trilogy?

No one designed the cycle. It just naturally occurs because synthetics are destined to fight their creators.
 
I don't know, I didn't mind it. I felt BioWare had written themselves into a bit of a hole with Cerberus, and as cheap as TIM becoming indoctrinated is, it fit their MO of playing with technology/genetics they cant control.

I know it fit... I just think it might have been interesting if at the end of the day TIM was solely responsible for all the bullshit he put you through.
 
Ugh. "Game journalists" need to stop comparing Mass Effect, a role-playing interactive video-game specifically designed to accommodate player choice, to Hamlet, a play written way back when with the express purpose of being watched, not interacting with. There are many different forms of art/media. They are not all viewed the exact same way.

No one designed the cycle. It just naturally occurs because synthetics are destined to fight their creators.

What evidence is there for it other than the catalyst's saying-so? Javik goes into an example similar to the quarians, yes, but other than that, what evidence are we given that this always happens? I'm not saying the precedent isn't possibly there, but it suddenly being the END-ALL BE-ALL of the culmination of a series was kinda silly.
 
I kind of got the impression that the Illusive Man actually wasn't indoctrinated up until the point at which he had himself outfitted with Cerberus's retrofitted Reaper implants.

I guess there's nothing to really support that, other than the fact that it sort of makes the story better in my mind that his hubris was his own undoing, but I don't know if there's anything that really contradicts it either, so in my head that's what I'm going with.
 
The 'best' ending is the Control one, yeah. It's not really any different than the Synthesis ending, mind you - the explosion is blue instead of green, and nobody has green glowy circuit boards on their skin in the Jungle Planet scene - but since it sorta involves Shepard forcibly rewriting the nature of all galactic life, I find it a little less palatable overall. (Though to be fair, we have no idea just what in the fuck exactly it's supposed to actually be doing. It could basically range from everyone being part of the same hivemind consciousness to absolutely nothing besides glowing green eyes and skin.)


As far as Cerberus goes, it's actually covered in ME3, when you look at the terminals with video logs in the Cerberus base. Basically, they were always super evil bastards, in ME1, 2, and 3, but in ME2, the Illusive Man went out of his way to give Shepard the impression that they're a noble group with questionable goals, by filling the ship with sympathetic figures like the friendly cook and engineers, Kelly Chambers, he specifically went out of his way to hire Dr. Chakwas and Joker to give Shepard some familiar faces, etc. It's a pretty obvious retcon, but I thought it actually worked fairly well.

Then in ME3, it does seem really strange that Cerberus suddenly has enough manpower to directly oppose the Alliance military, and the huskified trooper goes untouched for quite a while, but it's basically explained once you get to Sanctuary on Horizon: Cerberus's new army is a direct result of duping people into coming to Sanctuary for refuge, and then performing huskification/Indoctrination experiments on them to create an army.

Hmmm but then making them seem super weak compare to shepard is weird as well. I don't believe those troops are civilians due to their military training... But I imagine they got similar enhancements.

Seriously if you get technical, how much 'war assets' do y'all believe cerberus is worth?
 
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