Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Dave1988 said:
Most of the time. This is especially true to the decisions you made in ME1/ME2. You killed the Rachni Queen? No problem! The Reapers pulled another one out of their asses. You destroyed the Collector's base in ME2? You get a different war asset and a little less war preparedness (100 points instead of 110) and so on and so forth.

Another kick in the nuts.
Samara
dies no matter what you do. And if I understood it correctly, Bioware gets rid of her offscreen.
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Samara didn't die.
 
The Reapers should've just been the Borg. They allow sapient life to flourish, then harvest them for energy/technology to maintain their superiority, then repeat ad infinitum. Hint at their origin story (ie. Created by very first sapient species, they gained consciousness, rebelled, no longer trust organic life but understand need to farm them). Simple, but it works.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what Ghost Kid told me, should I feel stupid that I don't get it, or is it just a writer trying to be clever and deep, and serving up a leading of bollocks?
 
This is a bit sad.

I just realized that ME is finished. This was the last game in it's genre.

Bleh, I just ruined my day.
 
Patryn said:
Yeah, according the Jeff Gerstmann, the documentation that came with review copies really stressed for reviewers to look at the game as a new player to the franchise would. It even refers to the import system as a bonus or something.
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Which is weird, because new players describe it a:
"just not Gear of War"
"a good rental"
"okay, I guess"

which is not 10/10. ME3 is pretty much the definition of a 7 if you strip all the fancy stuff away. (or the lore / story new players who are there for the action only won't care about).
 
Patryn said:
That was obvious with ME2.
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Sigh I felt this by time I finished ME2. I had honest to goodness faith that ME3 was going to really turn the series around and end it with closure. Boy fucking hardy was I wrong. Oops I am being whiney and arrogant again sorry kotaku/dtoid :(
 
Patryn said:
Except this totally forgets that Saren was traveling around in Sovereign.

So how did that room work if there was a creature that looked like a species in that shell?
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Mac Walters said:
The exterior of the Reapers does follow a similar pattern, an efficient design for the purpose they were created for. However each Reaper is created from a unique species, and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect 2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species.
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I just think that whatever species inside the cuttlefish shell happened to be a convenient cop-out after the damage had already been done. Doesn't matter. Pointless now anyway.
 
Brawndo Addict said:
I dunno, it's better than what we got, but I still think the Reapers should have been left as an enigmatic force. Any real motive just means Sovereign was lying to you in ME 1, and I always felt it was more chilling that we could never understand them. Even Shepard asks if they want us as slaves or resources, and Sovereign doesn't say, "Yes we want to harvest you". Leaving them mysterious lets fans speculate on their motives, which is apparently all Bioware wanted in the first place.

The idea that the Reapers just need us as food to reproduce just seemed too bland for me, since there would be no reason for them to leave the Galaxy. Just stick around and bio-engineer species and treat us like crops, each planet as a farm.
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It implied that species need to develop into to a certain level of sapience before they are reaper worthy, and I guess the best way to do that was to let species develop naturally.

But I really liked the idea that they do this as a means of reproduction because it's one of the few motivations that doesn't ruin the whole 'god' idea of them. Every mythology that I know of includes the idea of a diety having an offspring, even the Judeo-Christian God (even if you don't think Jesus was his son, there is the whole 'Man was made in his image' thing).

It made perfect sense to me.
 
MC Safety said:
I think the wheels began to come off in Mass Effect 2. It never sat well with me: the hard (pointless) reset for Shephard, Shephard working for an organization that was fairly well established as terrorist, and the whole notion the Reapers would even bother harvesting lifeforms instead of just destroying them outright.

It just seemed sort of slapped together, as if the shift from RPG with shooting elements to third-person shooter with brief nods toward an RPG occupied most of the designers' time and effort.
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'may you live in interesting times', no?
 
EatChildren said:
That fits their MO. Sovereign treating you like an ant, same with Harbinger, is them showing utter superiority over you. Them trying to explain why they need you to reproduce, let along come to some kind of diplomatic understanding, is so far and beyond them it's not worth it. It's like a human trying to explain to a cow why steak is so damn tasty and it's important I eat it.

But yeah, BioWare had to go all deep and metaphysical about it, overcomplicating something so simple and believable.
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I kinda missed them talking down to us in ME3, trying to fill our little brains with their massive wangs of knowledge. They barely talk at all. Sovereign in ME1 was really well written. Harbinger was kind of annoying in ME2. But here you have nothing.

And I read a few (hundred) pages ago that someone said they didn't script for Harbinger cause they didn't have his VO...I think that was a joke because it didn't stop them scripting Mordin!


elrechazao said:
on the plus side the shitty story of ME3 makes me want to go back and revisit the first game. I love that game.
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I've actually beaten it front to back 5 times. Which is AMAZING for me because I never really replay games, especially RPGs. ME1 can be beaten in like 4 hrs though lol
 
Riggs said:
Sigh I felt this by time I finished ME2. I had honest to goodness faith that ME3 was going to really turn the series around and end it with closure. Boy fucking hardy was I wrong. Oops I am being whiney and arrogant again sorry kotaku/dtoid :(
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I also believed ME3 was gonna end well.. I saw nothing that even hinted to how bad it will get. I liked talking to the Characters and have great moments with them as well...Garrus, Grunt, Wrex, Eve, Mordin, Ashley, Thane, Tali....

Then the ending shows up
 
Y2Kev said:
I kinda missed them talking down to us in ME3, trying to fill our little brains with their massive wangs of knowledge. They barely talk at all. Sovereign in ME1 was really well written. Harbinger was kind of annoying in ME2. But here you have nothing.

And I read a few (hundred) pages ago that someone said they didn't script for Harbinger cause they didn't have his VO...I think that was a joke because it didn't stop them scripting Mordin!




I've actually beaten it front to back 5 times. Which is AMAZING for me because I never really replay games, especially RPGs. ME1 can be beaten in like 4 hrs though lol
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It's been 2 years for me since a playthrough, but I believe I've finished it about 6 times or so. The sovereign reveal is one of the best moments in gaming ever. As is the final level
 
Rebel Leader said:
Did he chose to...or was he forced?
Please be forced..please be forced
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I don't know but when you're a writer and you create something you usually don't want to leave it incomplete. They knew they were going to do a trilogy from the start. Plus while ToR was in development they probably wanted their best writers on the project and he already had experience with the universe.

I'm probably just being a conspiracy theorist. Maybe he just likes Star Wars more and given his resume in the company had the ability to choose what to work on and Mac hypnotized him into thinking the ME franchise would be safe in his hands.
 
In ME1, wasn't it explained that Reapers are interested in harvesting the developed technology of each cycle (its development made predictable and narrowed to a small band of possibilities, as per the Mass Relays etc.), as well as the species themselves?
 
Zeliard said:
Why would a knowable motive mean he was lying? Dude could have just been an arrogant prick. :P
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Plus, the reality is that their motive is not complicated. It's just fucking horrible.

An INTERGALACTIC STRUGGLE that has gone on for MILLENNIA to stop DARK ENERGY, requiring scientific know-how and expertise BEYOND what humans could even imagine, would be interesting.

But I am enjoying this CAPS thing so CONTINUE
 
DA:O Lead Designer Commented on ME3 Ending.

Brent Knowles said:
"I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in general I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note."
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EDIT: I forgot to add, that he does't work at Bioware anymore.
 
elrechazao said:
It's been 2 years for me since a playthrough, but I believe I've finished it about 6 times or so. The sovereign reveal is one of the best moments in gaming ever. As is the final level
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The only line I remember TO THIS day is: "You exsist because we allow it, You'll end...because we demand it". To me that made the reapers a object of... I can't even describe it.
 
Lifejumper said:
DA:O Lead Designer Commented on ME3 Ending
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I respect Brent Knowles a hell of a lot. He definitely seems to represent the old style of Bioware.

Now it's Mike Laidlaw and Mac Walters.

BTW, for those who don't know, Brent quit Bioware after DA:O when it became clear that they were transitioning Dragon Age into a more console focused series.

He has been politely but openly critical of the direction Bioware is going in.
 
Brent Knowles is going to reappear in two weeks writing cheerful ME3 blog posts as a mindless husk. RIP.

EDIT: He left already? Well... he might want to run anyway.
 
Zerokku said:
Has an ending this bad ever happened before?

Edit: To be fair, probably, but within the context of everything else, its all the more offensive.
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I do think it live up to the "hype". To me, it's worse than the ending of Dark Tower, last two books of Dune, Dance with Dragons.

So in my personal world, it is the officially the worst ending of all time. OF ALL TIME.
 
rififi said:
Well I stand corrected.

Does Javik stay in the port side cargo area of the engineering bay? I always wondered why that was on the map, but I could never access it.
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He has some pretty specific dialogue on the ship. I was playing on a save where I recruited Jack but never did her loyalty mission. I found Javik down in where she stayed and he comments about her and mentions her never getting to fulfill her revenge.
 
Rebel Leader said:
I also believed ME3 was gonna end well.. I saw nothing that even hinted to how bad it will get. I liked talking to the Characters and have great moments with them as well...Garrus, Grunt, Wrex, Eve, Mordin, Ashley, Thane, Tali....

Then the ending shows up
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Same I think that makes it all the more brutal. Here is a good game , that just pulls a 180 at the end leaving you thinking what the fuck.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
Brent left right after DA:O. He saw BW planning out the new direction of DA2 before DA:O was even released, and felt that the company he was working at wasn't the same one he joined.
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Oh yeah I remember that guy leaving now. Damn I was hoping for like some kind of divide in the company between teams. Then they have like some kind of passive-aggressive nerd war in house.
 
His first point is good, but fuck the second point. It's perfectly fine to end on a depressing note. The tragedies of life resonate more than the triumphs anyway. But either way, you have to have them make SENSE.
 
Patryn said:
It's even worse when you combine all this with Sovereign's talk about how the Mass Relays and the Citadel are there to help guide species' technological development. This means that they're actively leading races to develop AI so that they can then be harvested to prevent those AIs from killing everything.
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Hey, apparently it's gonna happen anyway, so why not speed things along? We have a timetable after all.

Well, at least we got some great character moments out of all this. I'd hoped for a stronger resolution (or 'a resolution'), but hey... I just want so see what they do with it now and what the DLC looks like.
 
ColonelColon said:
He left Bioware a few years ago, in 2009.
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EmCeeGramr said:
Brent left right after DA:O. He saw BW planning out the new direction of DA2 before DA:O was even released, and felt that the company he was working at wasn't the same one he joined.
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Well that makes a lot more sense. Regardless of how I feel about his opinion you shouldn't say things like that when you work at the same company the team you are critiquing.
 
Patryn said:
I respect Brent Knowles a hell of a lot. He definitely seems to represent the old style of Bioware.

Now it's Mike Laidlaw and Mac Walters.

BTW, for those who don't know, Brent quit Bioware after DA:O when it became clear that they were transitioning Dragon Age into a more console focused series.
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He speaks a lot of truth in this one post. Hell, if ME3 had used the same framework that Knowles had established with the ending of DA: O (which shared virtually the same basic plot), then fans would be satisfied. You'd get the Shepard sacrifice, the sacrifice of a friend, or the everyone survives ending. Along with a funeral/celebration and epilogue cards to add closure.
 
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