Support NeoGAF

[duckroll]

"It's inexcusable. Part of what drove me to write this analysis is that it is inconceivable to me that a professional writer could have produced this staggering degree of literary incompetence and I truly want to believe that it's all part of the plan - not necessarily for the sake of the Mass Effect story, but for the sake of my continued faith in human competence."

ROFLMAO!

 

[MC Safety]

BioWare should have cut Space Jesus and the ridiculous three choices. It would have been a lot more poignant if Shephard put his arm around Anderson and the game faded to black.

 

[EDarkness]

The ending we received is so bad that we actually prefer the "It's a dream!" ending.

It has to be a dream. There's no way in hell Javik is on the Normandy on some planet. He and Garrus were with me and if I'm pushing up daisies, then he sure as hell is too. So it has to be a dream of some kind.

 

[Rezbit]

You can just tell that they're going to shoehorn another ending in via paid DLC and it's just going to be terrible. Yes, it will be all be a dream, or Anderson wasn't really dead and launched Shepard out of some escape pod on the Citadel, or the Normandy didn't really crash it was just parking for a little bit.

 

[Metroidvania]

The problem in Indoctrination lies in the Final Hours app. Casey specifically states that the team scrapped indoctrination theory, although fans are reading into the "the team abandoned Shepard losing FULL control" as if it means it's still possible Shep is trying to fight, as well as the tweets that showed up early on in the ME official Twitter as well as Jessica Merizan's before it became blatantly obvious the fan anger wasn't going away, and they got locked down on their responses by PR people.

Bioware's in full on damage control, and no matter what happens, I want to see/hear some of the rest of the team's insight on what went down during the ending discussion. I'm sure it'll never come out with any degree of accuracy, but I really would love to hear the rest of the team's thoughts on all this speculation.

What is this video? I have seen mention of it once or twice, I believe, but I missed the genesis.

Before the thread really exploded, Bigjiantrobut indicated making a video to compile the thread's individual takes on the quality of the ending and whether or not we believed in the indoctrination theory, complete with flashing strobe lights and funky music choices. It has yet to appear.

 

[finowns]

You can just tell that they're going to shoehorn another ending in via paid DLC and it's just going to be terrible. Yes, it will be all be a dream, or Anderson wasn't really dead and launched Shepard out of some escape pod on the Citadel, or the Normandy didn't really crash it was just parking for a little bit.

That would be a new low for EA. If it happens I am just going to watch the ending on youtube.

 

[Robot Pants]

The only way to do it correctly is to include Multiplayer add-ons with the DLC ending. That way people are more willing to pay for it. To the people who just want the multiplayer stuff, the new ending will just be a bonus. Expecting people to pay for just the new ending is suicide.

 

[derFeef]

Wait, are they really thinking of making a new ending? That's just stupid and not needed.

 

[Empty Space]

Wait, are they really thinking of making a new ending? That's just stupid and not needed.

Haven't been here long huh? Most people are demanding it and the whole indoctrination theory is created on the belief that it will come.

 

[universalmind]

Oh my God. I just finished it. I wasn't expecting it to be that bad. Kill me.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Also if I may ask:

Why the hell Jessica Chobot is in my Mass Effect ?!

Good God even inside fictional universes I can't escape IGN *facepalm*

 

[AniHawk]

i forgot about the thing with the reapers being stuck in dark space at the end of mass effect. how did they know to come here if the keepers never told them to?

might've been better if it was like this:
mass effect 1 - stopping the initial reaper threat
mass effect 2 - devising ways to come up with destroying the reapers remaining in dark space, trying to unite the races (or conquer them if you wanted the council to be all humans in me1). synthetic races, or mainly the heretic geth, are also secretly trying to contact the reapers out in dark space. the cliffhanger ending would result in shepard's death.
mass effect 3 - shepard is revived like he was at the beginning of mass effect: the continuing adventures. it's now two years later and it's all-out war across the galaxy. this is about liberating the homeworlds of each major race so they would be ready to aid you in freeing earth. depending on your choices in mass effect 1 and 2, the difficulty in being able to liberate each planet would change- or the types of races you would be able to save would change.

 

[Papercuts]

Also if I may ask:

Why the hell Jessica Chobot is in my Mass Effect ?!

Good God even inside fictional universes I can't escape IGN *facepalm*

Specifically so you can tell her to get off your ship.

 

[Rezbit]

Also if I may ask:

Why the hell Jessica Chobot is in my Mass Effect ?!

Good God even inside fictional universes I can't escape IGN *facepalm*

Awful voice acting. She's just there to be sexy.

 

[Zomba13]

Specifically so you can tell her to get off your ship.

I told her straight up on the Citadel that she wouldn't be setting foot in my space ship.

 

[EatChildren]

"...and once I was finished giving the android sex advice, I told Jessica Chobot to get off my space ship."

MASS EFFECT 3

 

[Dresden]

Awful voice acting. She's just there to be sexy.

Not with that face and, urm, 'outfit,' no.

Also another occasion where renegade Shep just makes sense. Stealth ships and reporters don't mix.

 

[EDarkness]

i forgot about the thing with the reapers being stuck in dark space at the end of mass effect. how did they know to come here if the keepers never told them to?

might've been better if it was like this:
mass effect 1 - stopping the initial reaper threat
mass effect 2 - devising ways to come up with destroying the reapers remaining in dark space, trying to unite the races (or conquer them if you wanted the council to be all humans in me1). synthetic races, or mainly the heretic geth, are also secretly trying to contact the reapers out in dark space. the cliffhanger ending would result in shepard's death.
mass effect 3 - shepard is revived like he was at the beginning of mass effect: the continuing adventures. it's now two years later and it's all-out war across the galaxy. this is about liberating the homeworlds of each major race so they would be ready to aid you in freeing earth. depending on your choices in mass effect 1 and 2, the difficulty in being able to liberate each planet would change- or the types of races you would be able to save would change.

This is kinda what I thought they were going to do, but now I feel like they didn't have the whole series planned out at all. Basically, they disowned ME2 in ME3. Can't use any of the squad members, and various parts of it didn't matter at all (collector base). I almost feel like there should be a Mass Effect 4 that basically does what you're talking about to wrap up the whole series in a more coherent way.

 

[Zen]

So what would Star Child have said if they had come back to a galaxy where, say, the Krogan had wiped out all other species. How do Synthetics have the monopoly on genocide?

Or the Rachni, under the indoctrination of Sovereign.

Oh hey something else that makes no sense.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Awful voice acting. She's just there to be sexy.

Because God knows we don't already have fan service characters in the game.

And she is ugly anyway.

 

[firehawk12]

I told her straight up on the Citadel that she wouldn't be setting foot in my space ship.

But she gives you 5 war points!

 

[EDarkness]

But she gives you 5 war points!

Honestly, that's why I picked her up.

 

[Empty Space]

But she gives you 5 war points!

This is also why I picked her up. I don't think I will ever do it again though. I don't hate IGN like most people on the board do, but I don't like her VO or her character to even bother with it.

 

[Rezbit]

Because God knows we don't already have fan service characters in the game.

And she is ugly anyway.

And what's up with the Secretary chicks being so loose. Traynor invited herself into the damn shower! I turned her down and played chess though.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The indoctrination theory seems to hinge partly on (what I think is) a misunderstanding of the Illusive Man scene. His face looks like that because they made strides toward developing Reaper control tech and he had it implanted in himself (we can see the scene where he does this, with no anaesthetic, on the Cerberus station). The oily tentacles and Reaper noises and all the stuff people focus on in that scene as evidence of indoctrination only show up when the Illusive Man arrives, because he's using his newfound implanted Reaper tech on Shepard and Anderson. When he dies, the hold breaks and the tentacles disappear.

And I love the bit where everyone freaks out about Hackett knowing Shepard is alive when he shouldn't, and this being evidence that it's all in indoctro-Shepard's head. Maybe the fact that the Citadel suddenly peeled apart like some giant space-flower was what tipped Hackett off? Hmmm?

 

[GrandHarrier]

And what's up with the Secretary chicks being so loose. Traynor invited herself into the damn shower! I turned her down and played chess though.

You shut your mouth. Sometimes you just need a very personal assistant.

 

[PinkCrayon]

The indoctrination theory seems to hinge partly on (what I think is) a misunderstanding of the Illusive Man scene. His face looks like that because they made strides toward developing Reaper control tech and he had it implanted in himself (we can see the scene where he does this, with no anaesthetic, on the Cerberus station). The oily tentacles and Reaper noises and all the stuff people focus on in that scene as evidence of indoctrination only show up when the Illusive Man arrives, because he's using his newfound implanted Reaper tech on Shepard and Anderson. When he dies, the hold breaks and the tentacles disappear.

And I love the bit where everyone freaks out about Hackett knowing Shepard is alive when he shouldn't, and this being evidence that it's all in indoctro-Shepard's head. Maybe the fact that the Citadel suddenly peeled apart like some giant space-flower was what tipped Hackett off? Hmmm?

You sound like you are indoctrinated.

 

[Jake Tower]

Plants aren't intelligent beings: give a dumb man infinite power and it will cause a disaster, give a dumb plant infinite power and it will do nothing.

Please tell me someone pointed out the Thorian to this knob...

 

[Jake Tower]

Who cares? That was the second biggest detractor to the destroy ending. Peace won't last. I don't want or expect peace to last. I don't expect peace to last with the green juice either, unless you effectively mindwipe everyone you convert, which is equally fucked up.

Tell the Reapers to fuck off and control our own destiny for better or worse.

Yeah, the only outcome I expected was the ending of Terminator 2, where the galaxy goes into an unknown future. We'll take that chance rather than the cycle of gettin' reaped, yo.

 

[derFeef]

Haven't been here long huh? Most people are demanding it and the whole indoctrination theory is created on the belief that it will come.

That's desperate.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

What is this video? I have seen mention of it once or twice, I believe, but I missed the genesis.

As for the crucible- the answer is that it is dumb space magic. There needed to be something tactile I guess, so you could think while you did a slow walk. There is a fourth (second) ending. You do nothing and you get a "The Crucible has been Destroyed" message.

The video was/is a parody of the Enter the Void intro I was making, but the way I had set it up was sort of invalidated after the Final Hours app, haha. I'm still working on it but yeah.

EDIT - I'm going to bed now, but when I wake up I'm going to update the OP a bit with some actual info and links and whatnot for newcomers.

 

[Zen]

Wait, are they really thinking of making a new ending? That's just stupid and not needed.

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/

Ending sucks, we want a brighter one and/or one that actually reflects our choices 91%(51724 votes)

Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard 6%(3632 votes)

Fine as it is. 2%(1188 votes)

People want something different, or at the bare minimum more explanation and repercussions, because the endings (all of them) are horrible otherwise, and all of them completely ruin everything and render your choices moot (this is even if you ignore the fact that it's established in cannon lore, what the results of destroying a Mass Relay are).

 

[mxgt]

oh god people are still clinging to the indoctrination theory?

 

[Nibel]

oh god people are still clinging to the indoctrination theory?

Desperation.

 

[Rimfya]

Who cares? That was the second biggest detractor to the destroy ending. Peace won't last. I don't want or expect peace to last. I don't expect peace to last with the green juice either, unless you effectively mindwipe everyone you convert, which is equally fucked up.

Tell the Reapers to fuck off and control our own destiny for better or worse.

I destroyed the Reapers because while organic life might create AI that could destroy them all over again, I want them to make that mistake themselves. Screw the self-appointed referees of the Galaxy. If we're going to make mistakes 50,000 years from now, we're going to make them without interference.

---

Can we start a new thread for spoiler-filled constructive discussion of the major plot points of ME3 without specifically critiquing the ending?

 

[derFeef]

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/

Ending sucks, we want a brighter one and/or one that actually reflects our choices 91%(51724 votes)

Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard 6%(3632 votes)

Fine as it is. 2%(1188 votes)

I am agreeing that the ending sucks, but I can't see them making a new one. It would have to be an obligation-DLC, a patch that foces you do download it and they would need to press new discs with the new ending on it.

 

[Zen]

A fair point, but we'll probably see something, even just an epilogue DLC that tries to go into detail over your choice and offers material/information that makes the entire thing seem less insane and completely impossible.

I don't think that people are still 'clinging' to the indoctrination Theory as being some super secret real deal truth, so much as it's still a better ending than what we got, and at would display some actual good writing if it were true, so why not choose to believe it over what the likely outcome is.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

The video was/is a parody of the Enter the Void intro I was making, but the way I had set it up was sort of invalidated after the Final Hours app, haha. I'm still working on it but yeah.

EDIT - I'm going to bed now, but when I wake up I'm going to update the OP a bit with some actual info and links and whatnot for newcomers.

Quoting for new page, also to ask if there's any specific info/links people think I should put in the OP?

 

[MC Safety]

Because God knows we don't already have fan service characters in the game.

And she is ugly anyway.

The character model is especially hideous.

I'm not at all for having a game commentator in a video game. But if you're going to put her in because she's attractive, it makes sense you'd try to make her model look at least passable.

I didn't allow Chobot on my ship for the first playthrough, either. Ten war points or whatever be damned.

 

[Haunted]

I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.

 

[z0m3le]

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/

Ending sucks, we want a brighter one and/or one that actually reflects our choices 91%(51724 votes)

Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard 6%(3632 votes)

Fine as it is. 2%(1188 votes)

People want something different, or at the bare minimum more explanation and repercussions, because the endings (all of them) are horrible otherwise, and all of them completely ruin everything and render your choices moot (this is even if you ignore the fact that it's established in cannon lore, what the results of destroying a Mass Relay are).

Mass Effect 3-2

 

[rvy]

Awful voice acting. She's just there to be sexy.

They failed miserably then.

 

[EDarkness]

I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.

Wait, so giving people what they paid for is making "shitty fan demands"? If you buy something and it doesn't do what they tell it's it's gonna do, then you have every right to be pissed off. Getting to the end of the game and having none of your choices matter is flat out wrong, man. They need to do something about this. They told us specifically that this would be so and at the end of the day it isn't. I don't care if they have the retcon the whole thing, but I want the choices I made to get to the final battle matter. That's why I'm upset. I find it hard to believe that they thought the ending we got was going to fly in the first place.

 

[Zen]

Are there really 16 endings. I mean is there any way to stretch some fuzzy math to get to that number?

I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time there are just so many problems with the current ending, and it's executed so poorly, that they need to do something.

So many people wouldn't be complaining now if the game had simply ended before you met the child AI.

A bigger issue, one that they can't fix, is how everything that happens with the final assault to take back earth goes exactly the same(aside from window dresing in the form of NPCs and squad mates) no matter what you did and whom you recruited.

 

[z0m3le]

They failed miserably then.

I let her on my ship, and when she said she wanted to follow me home, I told her that we should keep things professional. I actually enjoyed turning her down, lol. (yes I went with the blue chick, ashley was ready to shoot me, traitorous bastard... and Tali wears a mask, though I found her drunk scene funnier than Ashley's, maybe I just like her personality more. As for the space cadet secretary, I lost at chess and kicked her out of my cabin, fucking ingrate, I'm saving the god damn galaxy people!

 

[Replicant]

Cerberus base with EDI and your Virmire Survivor (Kaidan in my case) is very interesting. It makes you wonder if this Shepard is the real one or just a clone. Also, EDI was a rogue violent AI.

It was amusing to hear her saying that the 7 zettabytes of porn she uploaded to Cerberus was Joker's.

 

[Zen]

That was interesting, and probably something that was considered for Mass Effect 3. I think the idea of a you being a highly advanced AI, that was there the kick start and replicate the personality and memories of Commander Shepard in the resurrected (or cloned) body, was a pretty cool concept. From a religious point of view you could have considered yourself to literally be a walking corpse.

Of course with EDI, she was just becoming self aware, and was being attacked at the same time. I always felt bad for that AI in ME1, I seem to remember that if you translated the 010101 code that you got when you 'killed it' (but I guess not), it came out as a cry for help.

I let her on my ship, and when she said she wanted to follow me home, I told her that we should keep things professional. I actually enjoyed turning her down, lol. (yes I went with the blue chick, ashley was ready to shoot me, traitorous bastard... and Tali wears a mask, though I found her drunk scene funnier than Ashley's, maybe I just like her personality more. As for the space cadet secretary, I lost at chess and kicked her out of my cabin, fucking ingrate, I'm saving the god damn galaxy people!

My femshep let her use the shower, ogled her, and then threw out the 'when ever you're done in there let me know and we can play some chess' line. Fun times.

Liara for life, doesn't mean femshep couldn't have fun on the side without breaking her commitment. I had her flirt shamelessly with Kelly in ME2. Makes you wonder about how detailed the whole Asari mind melds get.

 

[Zomba13]

If they were to change the ending (which I would be 100% behind. Not much could be worse than what we got) then I'd expect them, if it was a free change, to make it an opt in type thing. Free DLC but not required. That way those that somehow like the endings can keep it but those that don't get the chance of something new.

I don't think they will change it though. And definitely not for free.

I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.

Yeah, because that is exactly what we want. You've got us. We just want sunshine and rainbows.

Are there really 16 endings. I mean is there any way to stretch some fuzzy math to get to that number?

I believe you can get 16 or more endings if you take into account the current ending colours and their alts ('good' and 'bad') plus the crew emerging from the ship. Like you could get EDI and Tali, or EDI and Garrus or EDI and Vega etc. Technically there are a lot of variations but they all mean sweet fuck all and are all the same really.

 

[derFeef]

I would have been totally okay with Shep and Anderson looking down earth, and then let my choices in the previous games decide the outcome.

Yeah, because that is exactly what we want. You've got us. We just want sunshine and rainbows.

To be honest I think those endings ARE all sunshine and rainbows. It just screws with everything you have accomplished so far.

 

[tino]

I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.

What do you mean creators? Mac Walters was not the original writer. He doesn't own Mass Effect. He was hired to finish the story within the rules and logic of the ME universe. And he obviously failed. This is as far as I concern, as bad as George Lucas rewriting the "Han shoot first" scene. The ending invalidate the logic and reasoning laid out in the previous 100 hours of game play.

We don't want a happy ending, we want an ending that make sense. Don't keep bring it up to dismiss the fans. PA has already used the "happy ending" argument to dismiss the gamers.