Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Haunted said:
I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.
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Not fuck those guys! It's not even about happily ever after, it's about getting a good ending. The ending is objectively bad. Yes that's right, objectively. It throws all your good/evil work built up over 3 games out the window, the Reaper explanation is a huge copout, you choose the ending based on a colour, and it makes no damn sense.
 
mxgt said:
oh god people are still clinging to the indoctrination theory?
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Because it is still the most logical explanation, and makes far more sense than anything else. It just fits.

I expect it to be validated with the first post-release DLC.
 
Zeal said:
Because it is still the most logical explanation, and makes far more sense than anything else. It just fits.

I expect it to be validated with the first post-release DLC.
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The most logical is that they messed up hugely. Anything other than that is is just grasping at straws.
I understand why people want to believe in it.
 
Zeal said:
Because it is still the most logical explanation, and makes far more sense than anything else. It just fits.

I expect it to be validated with the first post-release DLC.
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No it's not, it is too elaborate to be true. It's just not good enough for us that are so invested into the series.
 
Metroidvania said:
here

I think we really need to update the OP, I'm seeing cycles repeating themselves with questions and speculation.

At the very least with the final hours app, updates on 'fan feedback', Marauder Shields, the original script....

And the damn video Bigjiantrobut has promised.
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I believe this original ending, it's just so bad.

People don't play ME2 would have no idea what's going on. I understand why they changed it.
 
The thing with the indoctrination theory is that even though it wasn't intended and is pretty crazy and reaches pretty far on several points it still fits the universe and has less plotholes than the current ending.

It really is a shame that the ending is so bad, especially as the game is just filled with really great bits.
 
They cut a part out at the end(Final Hours)where you were indoctrinated because they couldn't get the controls to work. So clearly Bioware has some sort indoctrination ending thought out already.
 
Haunted said:
I fully expect them at this point to recognise the financial opportunity making a DLC/retcon ending.

I find myself on the side against ending hate (the 2% from the poll above, as it were) because 1) I hate retconning and 2) I hate creators giving in to shitty fan demands because they want a brighter/happier ending with Shepard and his romance interest living happily ever after.

Fuck those guys.


edit: because I don't think I mentioned it before - I enjoyed ME3, even though the parts that make ME enjoyable to me are weakest in this game out of the entire series.
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I agree with this.

I do want them to come up with DLC of the aftermath of your decisions. From an outside fighters perspective. As the galaxy realizes what happened.
 
Man I am fighting myself.
Do I think it's bad because there was no real revelation, or do I think it's bad because of how it was executed.
 
Zomba13 said:
The thing with the indoctrination theory is that even though it wasn't intended and is pretty crazy and reaches pretty far on several points it still fits the universe and has less plotholes than the current ending.

It really is a shame that the ending is so bad, especially as the game is just filled with really great bits.
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Exactly. All of which I am about to say has already been discussed ten thousand fucking times, but I would just like to throw it out there for people who are just now catching this. I have never been a conspiracy theorist with anything, but the evidence supporting the indoctrination theory is truly simple and overwhelming. The hints scattered throughout the game are lowbrow even, not very subtle.

This is not tin foil hat shit, so let me just say a few key points that explains why I think Bioware wanted people to slowly but surely expect indoctrination.

1. The explanation of indoctrination explains that you'll see ghostly figures, hear voices, sounds, blah blah. Was Shepard's dreams with Reaper growls, ghostly figures walking around, and the ventkid just thrown in the game for....no reason? Seriously, stuff is made for a purpose. They're saying "See? He's cracking up."

2. Whenever the kid is seen throughout the game, you hear a Reaper's growl. Whoever believes this is coincidental is just retarded. They are saying "Hey, look who is pretending to be a child here!" it's almost too "duh" to explain. What other logical conclusion can be drawn from the kid and the Reapers? He's not some kid from Silent Hill who just so happened to wander into Mass Effect.

3. When the beam hits you, without even thinking about anything prior in the story, my first reaction to the way the Citadel looked, sounded, everything, was "Well, this doesn't look right. Is he dreaming?" You could tell in your gut that Shepard was now either dead in hell, in somekind of limbo or unconscious. Bioware tried to even make it clear to the player that this sequence was just not real. It was intentionally designed not to look, sound or feel right.

4. Right before Shepard goes through the beam and is knocked out, you clearly hear the Alliance say as plain as day "NO ONE made it through." Bioware is hinting to the player "Take notice. Something is wrong now."

None of this is reaching at all. It is just blatantly obvious things that are happening in a planned way.

shootfast said:
They cut a part out at the end(Final Hours)where you were indoctrinated because they couldn't get the controls to work. So clearly Bioware has some sort indoctrination ending thought out already.
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Of course they did, it was the plan all along, as they admitted. I don't see why people are trying to refute this. They are not saying they did not implement the indoctrination ending, they are saying they had to do it another way because the gameplay method they were going for didn't work with what they were trying to do. They basically just did it as a cinematic and added some choices.
 
Rebel Leader said:
So you joined our side. I'm guessing you feel both.
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I did, pretty fast. I am still not sure why exactly, though as I can't find a solid reason for myself.

I am fine with Shepard dying, and the moment happening is done pretty nice.
I guess if the ending we got would have been just one of the consequences I would be totally fine with it, as it is pretty shocking if that could happen. I have no idea how other outcomes would look like, though.
 
shootfast said:
They cut a part out at the end(Final Hours)where you were indoctrinated because they couldn't get the controls to work. So clearly Bioware has some sort indoctrination ending thought out already.
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Its like they hastly threw everything together and see what would worked the best with Casey and Mark vision.
 
The ultimate problem with the indoctrination theory, besides it grasping in so many respects and giving Bioware too much credit, is that is basically amounts to "it was all a dream!"

Which I shouldn't have to tell you is the worst cliché of all time.
 
Shake Appeal said:
The ultimate problem with the indoctrination theory, besides it grasping in so many respects and giving Bioware too much credit, is that is basically amounts to "it was all a dream!"

Which I shouldn't have to tell you is the worst cliché of all time.
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But....it wouldn't be all a dream. It would just be the last thirty seconds or so that was not real. When you're knocked unconscious in real life, that doesn't mean that everything that happened prior to that was a dream.
 
derFeef said:
I did, pretty fast. I am still not sure why exactly, though as I can't find a solid reason for myself.

I am fine with Shepard dying, and the moment happening is done pretty nice.
I guess if the ending we got would have been just one of the consequences I would be totally fine with it, as it is pretty shocking if that could happen. I have no idea how other outcomes would look like, though.
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I think it's because you don't have a sense of fulfillment
 
Galactic Fork said:
Do you have a reason why in the perfect cherry flavored ending that Shepard is alive down in london?
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The theory is that Destroy breaks the effects of indoctrination and wakes Shepard up in London to fight again. It fails to take account the the weird sequence with Joker flying away and your two squad members inexplicably being with him.
 
Galactic Fork said:
Do you have a reason why in the perfect cherry flavored ending that shepard is alive down in london?
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Uhm, because he is a cyber-engineered superhuman, or something.
No idea, I think it's just a shitty easteregg as it makes no sense at all regarding what happened and happens with the Normandy and so on.
 
It really isn't about getting a happy ending with sunshine and rainbows. Penny Arcade made that mistake too about thinking that's what the fans wanted. I know I'm completely fine with downer endings. Heck, RDR has my favourite ending to a game this gen and that's a very tragic end.

Shake Appeal said:
The ultimate problem with the indoctrination theory, besides it grasping in so many respects and giving Bioware too much credit, is that is basically amounts to "it was all a dream!"

Which I shouldn't have to tell you is the worst cliché of all time.
Click to expand...

And yet people prefer this to the actual ending. That should tell you how much Bioware fucked this up.
 
Empty Space said:
The theory is that Destroy breaks the effects of indoctrination and wakes Shepard up in London to fight again. It fails to take account the the weird sequence with Joker flying away and your two squad members inexplicably being with him.
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Shepard wakes up after, though. So that was just part of it.

Edit: In the other red endings, Shepard dies after beating indoctrination thinking the reapers were destroyed and Joker and pals are on the other planet. In the blue and green endings she dies indoctrinated, thinking she saved everybody and that Joker and pals are on the other planet.
 
Replicant said:
Cerberus base with EDI and your Virmire Survivor (Kaidan in my case) is very interesting. It makes you wonder if this Shepard is the real one or just a clone. Also, EDI was a rogue violent AI.

It was amusing to hear her saying that the 7 zettabytes of porn she uploaded to Cerberus was Joker's.
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She was not a rogue violent AI. She was a VI back then. You shut her down in ME1 if you did the Moon side quest. Cerberus upgraded her to a complete AI during ME1 and ME2.
 
mxgt said:
oh god people are still clinging to the indoctrination theory?
Click to expand...

Lots of little tips to it have been scattered through the campaign. So whether or not bioware ended up going with it in the end, those little easter eggs are in the game. There are waaaaaaaaay to many of them for people just to be reading what they want into it. Watch the opening sequence with Indoctrination theory in mind and it can seem very convincing.
 
My wife pointed out a kinda cool idea, and she isn't even a fan of the series.

She's all "how come the Citadel looked like hell, and the planet Joker landed on looked like heaven?"

Actually, yeah, wtf.
 
Zeal said:
Exactly. All of which I am about to say has already been discussed ten thousand fucking times, but I would just like to throw it out there for people who are just now catching this. I have never been a conspiracy theorist with anything, but the evidence supporting the indoctrination theory is truly simple and overwhelming. The hints scattered throughout the game are lowbrow even, not very subtle.

This is not tin foil hat shit, so let me just say a few key points that explains why I think Bioware wanted people to slowly but surely expect indoctrination.

1. The explanation of indoctrination explains that you'll see ghostly figures, hear voices, sounds, blah blah. Was Shepard's dreams with Reaper growls, ghostly figures walking around, and the ventkid just thrown in the game for....no reason? Seriously, stuff is made for a purpose. They're saying "See? He's cracking up."

2. Whenever the kid is seen throughout the game, you hear a Reaper's growl. Whoever believes this is coincidental is just retarded. They are saying "Hey, look who is pretending to be a child here!" it's almost too "duh" to explain. What other logical conclusion can be drawn from the kid and the Reapers? He's not some kid from Silent Hill who just so happened to wander into Mass Effect.

3. When the beam hits you, without even thinking about anything prior in the story, my first reaction to the way the Citadel looked, sounded, everything, was "Well, this doesn't look right. Is he dreaming?" You could tell in your gut that Shepard was now either dead in hell, in somekind of limbo or unconscious. Bioware tried to even make it clear to the player that this sequence was just not real. It was intentionally designed not to look, sound or feel right.

4. Right before Shepard goes through the beam and is knocked out, you clearly hear the Alliance say as plain as day "NO ONE made it through." Bioware is hinting to the player "Take notice. Something is wrong now."

None of this is reaching at all. It is just blatantly obvious things that are happening in a planned way.



Of course they did, it was the plan all along, as they admitted. I don't see why people are trying to refute this. They are not saying they did not implement the indoctrination ending, they are saying they had to do it another way because the gameplay method they were going for didn't work with what they were trying to do. They basically just did it as a cinematic and added some choices.
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I agree.

I buy into the indoctrination theory because of the evidence and my cynicism, not because I desperately want a "better" ending.

In fact, if the indoctrination theory is true, that means the Real Ending is DLC which will be *even shittier* than what we got.

I don't believe the indoctrination theory because I'm giving BioWare a bunch of credit; at this point I'm incredibly cynical about both their game design/narrative abilities and EA's corporate Reaper profile to squeeze more money out of us by cutting content and repacking it as [day-one] DLC and selling bullshit add-ons like fucking randomized weapon booster packs for the multiplayer.
 
I don't believe Shepard's squad would just ditch her like that. Joker running away from the mass relay explosion was lol worthy. How did he even get there, running away from the damn battle? What a fucking coward.
 
hamchan said:
I don't believe Shepard's squad would just ditch her like that. Joker running away from the mass relay explosion was lol worthy. How did he even get there, running away from the damn battle? What a fucking coward.
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Eh, for me that makes kinda sense since everything is exploding and going to hell there.
 
derFeef said:
Wow really? Do you have any video/picture of that? Nothing like that showed up during my ending.
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Nope, sorry. But if I remember correctly,
In my game I chose edi & ash... I believe I saw their dead bodies.. I pick synthesis and they walk out of the Normand lu
 
I hereby declare that the indoctrination theory shall be renamed the desperation theory.

Seriously, if the indoc theory is true then it is still a shitty ending because nothing is accomplished.
 
Zeal said:
My wife pointed out a kinda cool idea, and she isn't even a fan of the series.

She's all "how come the Citadel looked like hell, and the planet Joker landed on looked like heaven?"

Actually, yeah, wtf.
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Your wife gets a free neogaf support group hug. I never thought of that.
 
derFeef said:
Eh, for me that makes kinda sense since everything is exploding and going to hell there.
Click to expand...

Nope, think about it. Shepard and squad gets blasted by Harbinger running to the beam. The remaining squad members you had with you vanish and somehow get back on the Normandy to be part of the ending cutscene. They don't even bother checking Shepard is alive apparently? Then Joker is already in the mass effect relay's explosion path which means he was travelling in it before the battle was even over for some reason. Only reasoning is that Shepard was abandoned by the squad and they all bailed on the battle.
 
heliosRAzi said:
I hereby declare that the indoctrination theory shall be renamed the desperation theory.

Seriously, if the indoc theory is true then it is still a shitty ending because nothing is accomplished.
Click to expand...

Yes it's shitty, it also means if they do release some extra ending after the red perfect ending where Shepard stands up and goes kicks the Reapers' asses, then even if it's free, then the people who buy it used will have to spend the money for an online pass to get the real ending. (Which is diabolical.)
 
hamchan said:
Nope, think about it. Shepard and squad gets blasted by Harbinger running to the beam. The remaining squad members you had with you vanish and somehow get back on the Normandy to be part of the ending cutscene. They don't even bother checking Shepard is alive apparently? Then Joker is already in the mass effect relay's explosion path which means he was travelling in it before the battle was even over for some reason. Only reasoning is that Shepard was abandoned by the squad and they all bailed on the battle.
Click to expand...

You found a plot-hole. Add 200 to your NeoGAF readiness.
 
hamchan said:
Nope, think about it. Shepard and squad gets blasted by Harbinger running to the beam. The remaining squad members you had with you vanish and somehow get back on the Normandy to be part of the ending cutscene. They don't even bother checking Shepard is alive apparently? Then Joker is already in the mass effect relay's explosion path which means he was travelling in it before the battle was even over for some reason. Only reasoning is that Shepard was abandoned by the squad and they all bailed on the battle.
Click to expand...

Garrus: There is no Shepard without Vakarian

Sees huge schockwave approaching.

Garrus: Yeah... fuck that... Joker, pick me up and let's get out of here.
 
hamchan said:
Nope, think about it. Shepard and squad gets blasted by Harbinger running to the beam. The remaining squad members you had with you vanish and somehow get back on the Normandy to be part of the ending cutscene. They don't even bother checking Shepard is alive apparently? Then Joker is already in the mass effect relay's explosion path which means he was travelling in it before the battle was even over for some reason. Only reasoning is that Shepard was abandoned by the squad and they all bailed on the battle.
Click to expand...

:-/
 
heliosRAzi said:
I hereby declare that the indoctrination theory shall be renamed the desperation theory.

Seriously, if the indoc theory is true then it is still a shitty ending because nothing is accomplished.
Click to expand...

It would just mean the story isn't over. Really, that's all it would be.
 
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