heliosRAzi
Banned
It's amazing how deep a hole he digs in such a short amount of time
Also, a new song that best befits the endings
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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It's amazing how deep a hole he digs in such a short amount of time
Also, a new song that best befits the endings
How can a video game not be proclaimed as art?f Everything is woven in together such as art style, cinematics, music and story telling. Using all these creative aspects to create a world.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Publishers aren't entitled cuz they gots $$$
The core fallacy in your argument and the fallacy inherent in the overall "games as art" belief is that an an audience's participation in a finished product no longer makes it art. You can make an immaculately sculpted wooden chess set that is a work of art but the actual game of chess to be played on it is not art. Sure, a group of people can make a work of art like a film or a mural, but that's not Mass Effect.
Allow me to paraphrase what Garnett Lee said last week: Mass Effect tells you what parts of the mural you have to fill with color and the only choice you have is what color of blue you want to use. You can use baby blue, royal blue, navy blue, etc. Whatever you pick, that part of the mural will be blue.
This isn't the audience "participating". You're going down set paths. No single player has a storyline that BioWare didn't anticipate. If this were the case and if Hudson's PRspeak were to be taken literally, then choices I made in ME1 and ME2 may have caused a butterfly effect to have the final battle take place on, say, Illium instead of Earth. But Mass Effect doesn't work that way and I'm fine with that.
But people who believe the so-called "choices" they made gives them a say in how the series should end, you have a sense of entitlement that you never deserved in the first place.
Photolysis
Banned
The idea that it'll set a dangerous precedent with companies releasing shitty endings and then charging for DLC to fix it has some merit, but this idea that you always need to stand by your creation no matter what is bullshit. Fuck that.
Bioware aren't the first to mess up an ending/story and they won't be the last. I have far more respect for those who will actually admit to making mistakes, instead of this enabling attitude given out by the shills.
In the case of ME3 though the ending is so bad that it does actually deserve another go, rather than shrugging their shoulders and saying "we'll do better next time".
Barack Lesnar
Banned
The Prince of Persia game did ending DLC as well. It's not a new practice. The Game Informer guy sounds like a d-bag... "because people cry"... ugh, so bad. And the other one hasn't even finished it yet. Video games journalism.
As much as I love the Faunt's credit song, I feel like it is tarnished by the ending as well. Anytime I try to listen to it now, all I see is synthetic Joker and EDI on Eden.
If anything is to be learned about Bioware and its PR, they exaggerate and renege.
Don't take a "no ME post Shepard" line as gospel because they will make a post Shepard game.
HarryHengst
Member
This should have been the ending song, in a world where the ending was awesome, like the trilogy deserved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiRDJLcYua0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiRDJLcYua0
Yes. YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!
Because they want to get scoops on Bioware's next game first.
Arjen
Member
The Prince of Persia 2008 ending without DLC was actually powerful and moving, and, you know, an actual ending. A 'dark' ending done well. It also involved actual player choice.
They probably think it'll set a precedent for everyone to start doing it.
I mean even someone like me who really gets into a lot of games' stories, there's really none that I would pay for a better ending except mass effect. I would just say "that game ended really shitty" and move on to the next one.
I think the problem is that it sets up a scenario in which fans will demand changes for every little thing they don't like, and most devs will feel like they need to comply or something, sacrificing their "vision" in the process.
This is Bioware we're talking about.
Compromising artistic integrity, basically.
Nevermind the fact that many games are developed using focus groups. And that we're to the point that Japan was applauded when they started using them. I mean that's obviously not letting the fans dictate anything.
I agree with this. They never promised that each of us would have a unique ending, only that choices would carry over from one game to the next. As one person on another forum put it, we've never really had true choice in any of the games. We all fight Saren at the end of ME1 no matter who dies on Virmire, Sovereign gets taken out regardless if you save the council or not, and the baby reaper gets killed at the end of ME2 regardless of who in the crew survives. We're all just taking slightly different routes to the same destination.
Zomba13
Member
psyduckheadexplode.gif
Genocide means destruction of a race/ethnicity (those words aren't exactly interchangeable, I know), not of all people.
Anyway, it's not supposed to be an easy decision, especially since Bioware did an excellent job of humanizing the Geth since ME2. I picked Synthesis my first go round because I was a little overwhelmed (also because I thought they'd prompt me before I dove headfirst into a beam), but with a clearer head I'd pick Destruction.
CrazedArabMan
Member
I'm kinda torn, I mean yes, the ending was rather lame in many aspects that contradicted what we have learned about the world and the game, and it would be nice to know what happened to everything instead of just showing the Normandy and Joker and two people getting out of the ship, I mean come on...
On the other hand though, since I have beat the game and this was the ending they chose, I feel if they change it I won't exactly accept it because I have already played through the official chosen ending, and this new one is just to make up for that poor choice. Unless it is done in a way that is was a hallucination or doesn't exactly conflict with the final choices or what not. idk...
Overall though a very poor ending to otherwise an amazing game and trilogy.
On the other hand though, since I have beat the game and this was the ending they chose, I feel if they change it I won't exactly accept it because I have already played through the official chosen ending, and this new one is just to make up for that poor choice. Unless it is done in a way that is was a hallucination or doesn't exactly conflict with the final choices or what not. idk...
Overall though a very poor ending to otherwise an amazing game and trilogy.
Snap.
I feel like Bioware is a specific case that probably can't be replicated elsewhere.
Artistic integrity is great, but when you make a product that doesn't live up to any standards, should you still sit behind it? Can't you try to make it better?
I think the atitude from the game press comes from the fact that they think the endings are hated because they are "sad" and "bleak". That the fanbase is just clamoring for a happy ending. They don't seem to understand that the endings are kind of dumb, that they disregard 100+ of story and choices, and that they don't make any sense.
Artistic integrity is great, but when you make a product that doesn't live up to any standards, should you still sit behind it? Can't you try to make it better?
I think the atitude from the game press comes from the fact that they think the endings are hated because they are "sad" and "bleak". That the fanbase is just clamoring for a happy ending. They don't seem to understand that the endings are kind of dumb, that they disregard 100+ of story and choices, and that they don't make any sense.
The PoP2008 DLC wasn't the ending to the game or an ending to the game. It was a bridge between two stories and games.
WrenchNinja
Member
God just...the Catalyst completely ruins Mass Effect 1's story. He says the Citadel is part of him and he controls the Reapers. So why even use the Keepers? Why allow Sovereign to fly around space looking for the Conduit if you are the fucking Citadel? Why didn't you just open the doors? You can control these mechanical monstrosities but you cant counter program against Prothean scientists?
Yes, I'm playing through the first game while achievement whoring.
Yes, I'm playing through the first game while achievement whoring.
In Witcher's case it wasn't even that big of a deal.
Witcher fans: Hey, Act III is cool and all, but it could be a bit longer.
CDPR: Oh, ok. Here you go, 4 hours of new Act III content for free. Anything else?
So I'm guessing CDPR is now burnt for letting that cat out of the bag.
The majority of that deviant art ending is word for word from the game. They just expand a bit on the nature of the godchild character, and insert more scenes from the frontlines.
As I said, the sting could have easily been mitigated with a Vigil-like Q&A session with the godchild to give the 3 choices a touch more impact/context.
My only issue is that I took Liara in my squad for the final assault to the Conduit, so she clearly would have died or been severely wounded by Harbinger. But wait! She miraculously got on board the Normandy somehow.
It does have an effect! It gives you 100 assets, and we all know how crucially important EMS is.
Oh, I know that. I mean, having Chobot in your fucking ship sacrifices any argument for a 'vision' Bioware had of their game. It's just game journalists being game journalists i.e. thinking they matter for anything more than their marketing reach.
Listening to the latest podcast I can't help but feel that Jeff was right when he said "you kow, this should have been one of the best games of the generation, they should have taken their time to bring it all together and make sure it was that and do it in a way that respect the universe they created" but Bioware and EA don't work like that, and if they feel there is money to be made on changing the ending they absolutely will, whatever their fucking vision was.
+50 War Assets is huge.
The more i read of Casey comments prior to the game release, the more i wonder wtf happened since then. He obviously wanted all that in the game, but something happened after that that prevented this to happen. Maybe the game should have been delayed again if time was the issue.
Zomba13
Member
The funny thing is that whenever I hear that song now I just think of the ME3 ending. It fits so well.
Yeah, all those coincidences keep piling up. It was a good detail without the need to make it personal.
People who don't pay for their games in 'bewildered by disappointed paying customers' shocker.
Gotta unlock that secret ending!
Heh, I don't really care for the Animal House ending stuff after the context of what Arkis has wrote. I actually really love his version of the ending, really well done and absolutely would've just terrific to see it play out.
I just beat the game... destroyed the reapers.
I feel like I didn't accomplish anything. I mean, I destroyed the Reapers but it felt really like a really hollow and empty victory.
I still don't get how Garrus and Liara (my two squadmates on the final push) got to the Normandy.
Also, Shepard did a last gasp/breath at the very end of the cut scene :'-(
I feel like I didn't accomplish anything. I mean, I destroyed the Reapers but it felt really like a really hollow and empty victory.
I still don't get how Garrus and Liara (my two squadmates on the final push) got to the Normandy.
Also, Shepard did a last gasp/breath at the very end of the cut scene :'-(
Zomba13
Member
They didn't promise we'd have unique endings (because there would need to be literally millions of endings) but we were promised our choices would affect the ending and that the ending wouldn't be a choice between ending A, B or C.
Agreed. ME really is a unique case because of the emphasis on player choice and the length that the various characters and plots have been going. It is definitely a tough call. On the one hand, I would hate to think a developer would shy away from a certain vision for fear of backlash, but on the other hand, I can't honestly think of a less satisfying ending.
And that is because Forbes doesn't make money on gaming advertising, so they can put out an article with their thoughts on how the day 1 DLC was going too far, for example, without getting blacklisted by EA.
If it was any other game I'd have moved on by now.
It's sad because--speaking as a pure fanboy here--I do think Bioware had the pieces to create one of the best games of the decade, but they completely dropped the ball with this spectacularly awful piece of writing.
I think time was a huge issue.
pure speculation: From Ashes was originally planned to be in the game, but it was decided in the middle of last year that they wouldn't have the time to finish it before the game went gold.
pure speculation2: The ending as we have it now is just a cobbled-together product that's vague only in hopes that 'lots of speculation' would make up for its lack of polish or artistry.
It's sad because--speaking as a pure fanboy here--I do think Bioware had the pieces to create one of the best games of the decade, but they completely dropped the ball with this spectacularly awful piece of writing.
I think time was a huge issue.
pure speculation: From Ashes was originally planned to be in the game, but it was decided in the middle of last year that they wouldn't have the time to finish it before the game went gold.
pure speculation2: The ending as we have it now is just a cobbled-together product that's vague only in hopes that 'lots of speculation' would make up for its lack of polish or artistry.
I just imagine my own ending with Das Malefitz. So much more satisfying, without ruining the song.
Lucky you, best ending on your first playtrough!
Well, that's the rub when it comes to creative endeavors. Do you keep tweaking and tweaking, never truly finishing a project, or do you learn from your missteps and apply it to the next one? I mean, if they went full monty and created multiple endings that really considered everyone's individual choices, we wouldn't have played ME3 until 2157 because they would still be developing 20 hours worth of endings. Just imagining the flowchart for that is giving me seizures.
I think this is a little unfair to keep bringing up. Yes, if Bioware decide to change the ending, it will cost money. Yes, they had day one DLC. After reading Hudson's and Walter's comments and seeing ME:The Final Hours, it is pretty clear that this ending was a conscious decision and not a rush job that ended with them saying "Damn, we couldn't finish the ending we wanted, but we can just charge for it later".
Edit: Whoops, I misread your comment. Sorry about that.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
He gave up his artistic integrity for the publisher's timeline.
Brewster's Wallet
Member
It's got to be time
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