As i recall it was buried inside an ice ball, which was Charon.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
As i recall it was buried inside an ice ball, which was Charon.
Same deal then, since Charon is 1200 kilometres across.
GrandHarrier
Member
I thought it was initially surrounded by ice/etc.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No. Well, he's proven that he can. But I always get annoyed when people say to me "can't you just write something? Aren't you a writer?".
That's how it works, though. A design doc has to be exciting. It has to be confident. It has to say "this is why this game is going to be be fucking amazing and profitable and why it is right for our company right now". You expect them not to be excited about their product?
Seriously, are you actually so hard-up on hating the ending that you're willing to badmouth the fact that they wanted to make the game in the first place?
I'd like to see the rest of the design doc, to be frank. Is that the only part that exists on the internet?
Give this man all the cookies in the cookie jar
heliosRAzi
Banned
I like how people use the infinite ammo as evidence for the indoctrination theory when we had unlimited ammo in ME1
It's just gameplay conceit. Littering the place with thermal clips and picking them up at that time would have looked idiotic (there's a point to be made that it's always weirdly convenient to have ammo lying around everywhere and that we're used to that, but still).
It doesn't mean that it just about fit in there. The ice could have been very thick around it. The size of Charon only puts a constraint on the relay's maximum length. Not much to go on beyond that, beside the loading screen where they show the Normandy flying close by a relay, though there's no way to account for perspective there.
Give it up already
No the best theory is Bioware fucked up. Ok, now try to disprove it.
It's a fun "Squall died" type of explanation that is actually one of the best such explanations people ever have come up with, but you have to realise that absolutely everything we have heard from Bioware has told us that they wrote the ending as literal. They specifically said that they cut an ending where Shepard was indoctrinated because the controls sucked, that's the level they would have made such an ending on. Just because something sounds really great it's not automatically true.
No, don't you even fucking think of reversing this argument on me because I'm not claiming anything about the ending except that it's not the indoctrination theory. That is not a statement, it's a refutal of another statement. Those two do not hold the same weight for reasons stated multiple times in the Atheism vs. Theism thread, and this is eerily close to that discussion now.
To be fair, that's probably the weakest subpoint of the Indoctrination Theory.
You have unlimited ammo in the intro, though, and you still have to reload. I suppose it might look strange for a weakened Shepard to do reload animation?
Fuck I just got reminded of how much I hate the beginning of ME3. It's so fucking terrible.
Hack writing is the only rational explanation for this. It's so fucking terrible.
The ending DLC should also fix the intro, imo. It really is that abhorrent.
- The player isn't introduced to James Vega and it's assumed we know him
- How the fuck did Ashley/Kaidan get promoted?
- Why are the Alliance staff so incredibly stupid? E.g. WHAT SHOULD WE DO???
- Why is Shepard asked to come to talk when all she says is "we fight or we die?"
- Why is the writing so extremely terrible?
- Why does Anderson explicitly point out that people are dying? Does he think Shepard is blind?
- Vent Kid
- Normandy coming out of nowhere and being able to land and escape with everyone intact?
- Vent Kid dying
Hack writing is the only rational explanation for this. It's so fucking terrible.
The ending DLC should also fix the intro, imo. It really is that abhorrent.
Jake Tower
Banned
HadesGigas
Member
I miss the days before the game came out, when the biggest problem I had was that they killed Emily Wong on twitter and gave what should have been her spot on the Normandy to Jessica Chobot.
The intro was fucking abysmal. When I played the demo, I was honestly completely turned off on the single player portion of the game.
The thing is, the indoctrination theory is built entirely on the in game universe, 'bioware was lazy' is completely outside what happens in the game. Sure 'Bioware is lazy' is a possibility, but the Indoctrination Theory still reconciles glaring oversights and has a more solid foundation. No one is putting blinders on and saying 'indoc theory is the truth everything else is completely wrong'.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Well I guess it's about "ending" of the game making such a bad impact in either case (RGB or indoctrination) that you kinda turn a blind eye to all other stuff that was poorly done.
Jake Tower
Banned
I wondered where the heck Emily went...
Bioware may not have intended it, but it doesn't stop Indoctrination Theory from being the best possible outcome at this point.
Photolysis
Banned
Yeup, this is pretty much how not to do an intro. I hate it when characters are introduced out of nowhere and are all buddy-buddy with someone, while you're standing there going "who the fuck are you?".
Well, Walters apparently wrote it, so...
On the plus side, vent kid dies. Shame that Shepard spends the entire game dreaming about it, but... he dies.
Complistic
Member
Most people who go with the indoctrination theory realize and accept it's just a way of explaining a terrible ending.
I really hate this. Shepard's dialogue is so bad. Same with a lot of Hackett's dialogue. its so vague and full of useless palitudes
That scene is them giving you very clear stage directions and the point generally comes across.
But now we have people grasping at straws, so these things stand out for other reasons than "video games shouldn't be doing this, might as well take control from me entirely".
Jake Tower
Banned
Agreed. Aside from what has been pointed out, I noted that it looked like Shepard and Anderson were having a 'shit our pants' race to the toilet. The demo players weren't kidding about stupid running animations.
Are we finally at the point where we can admit that it wasn't just the ending that was bad?
The only proper recourse for this is to kill Jessica Chobot. IRL
Psychoward
Banned
HACKETT OUT
To be fair, the first two points he makes seem to give off that he doesn't really understand the indoctrination theory to begin with. I'm not sold on it myself, but it's not quite being described correctly by this post.
With that said, I really feel that Mass Effect 3 had an alternative beginning and an alternative ending cut considering how disjointed the beginning and ending are with the rest of the game.
HadesGigas
Member
Yeah she was in that ANN twitter stuff on the day before launch.
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_News_Network/SolComms
There is nothing about indoctrination theory that represents a good outcome unless you take "not as bad as the actual ending" as good.
Like I said, it's a weak argument. Probably Indoctrination Theory's weakest. I think a bunch of Indoctrination Theory is grasping. I also think that a surprising amount of it works despite Bioware's intentions.
I said "best possible outcome at this point." So, yeah, "not as bad as the actual ending" is exactly what I mean.
Unless they completely rewrite the thing, Indoctrination Theory is the only way to potentially salvage it.I think that the intro has the worst writing in the entire game. But by the time you were on the Normandy and the Citadel, it was already forgotten. The rest of the writing ranges from passable to fantastic, depending on the characters involved. The intro was bad, and the game has its flaws, but the ending really did "ruin" an otherwise spectacular journey for me.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It doesn't solve the main plot
Psychoward
Banned
Just saw the Mass Shift rumors, if those are true.........
Goddamn BioWare......
Goddamn BioWare......
There's no way it is. But it does contain enough plausible stupidity to pass for Bioware material, I guess.
In short, desperation.
It turns it into a cliff-hanger, since Shep's supposedly still among the rubble in London. And that has to be canon for the theory to even make sense. Either that or we accept Shep survived re-entry.
In short, desperation.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Wait... What the fuck?!?!
Empty Space
Member
The design doc was presented to the doctors at a lunch meeting between just them and Hudson. I personally find it strange that he would have to sell something to either of them after so many years using all those buzz words that industry people seem to hate so much. I could just be basing that assumption on what pod casters say about the buzz word hate maybe devs love that stuff. This is the only thing I saw in the app. If more is floating around on the internet I haven't seen it.
Even if they didn't intend it, I seriously expect them to run with indoctrination at this point lol.
"Uh...yeah, well, of course he was indoctrinated. Haven't you seen how all of our brilliant fans put together all the clues we hid throughout the game?! A true fan would have known."
At this point, I don't even care. It's almost a joke, but I expect them to take the easiest path available to them now and look like it was *Joker voice* ALL PART OF THE PLAN...
Bioware is stupid, but that shit was written by a 14 year old fan fic veteran on 4chan.
"Uh...yeah, well, of course he was indoctrinated. Haven't you seen how all of our brilliant fans put together all the clues we hid throughout the game?! A true fan would have known."
At this point, I don't even care. It's almost a joke, but I expect them to take the easiest path available to them now and look like it was *Joker voice* ALL PART OF THE PLAN...
Bioware is stupid, but that shit was written by a 14 year old fan fic veteran on 4chan.
I would rather have a cliffhanger than the clusterfuck of a literal interpretation.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
That's actually pretty much exactly it. At this point I find it quite incredulous that someone can still think that the Indoctrination Theory was actually intended by the writers at BioWare. But at the same time, I think it still remains the best way for the ending to actually have a (probably infinitesimally small) chance of turning out to be decent. It speaks volumes, I think, that many would prefer there to be no ending and only (misplaced) hope to the ME story than what we actually got.
Indoctrination theory is bullshit and anyone who says there's evidence, I say there is none.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VITxhAwo24Y
I like how she starts getting angry towards the center/end of this other video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VITxhAwo24Y
The actual ending is like a cliffhanger.
That doesn't make it better since the actual literal ending leaves only nonsense as an outcome.
Honestly, if they don't rewrite the thing, or if they don't adopt Indoctrination (essentially fans giving them a shovel to dig themselves out of their own grave), I'm probably done with the series. I just won't be able to take it seriously or suspend disbelief anymore.
Jake Tower
Banned
http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rcl7e/more_possible_leaked_information/
Have a good laugh at this troll post on reddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/rcl7e/more_possible_leaked_information/
probably fake.spoilers if they are not however..........
edit:beaten.