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[HK-47]

dp

 

[Rufus]

Slow down, man. (edit: You are quick.)

 

[EatChildren]

Why should we have a choice in anything at all? Why not remove all choices and make the game linear with no choices like a Half-Life game? It's not like the Mass Effect series was built on your choices actually having an affect on anything.

In Mass Effect Saren dies. As does Benezia. Either Ashley or Kaiden will die, you cannot save both. You will always go to Ilos. You will always speak to Vigil, and he will always recount the same story of the Protheans. The Citadel will always be attacked, and you can never convince the council of the Reaper threat, not until the very end.

In Mass Effect 2 Thane is always sick. You cannot cure him. There will always be a suicide run, and you have to work with Cerberus. Miranda will always be an annoying bitch. Jack will always be the token tough chick. Jacob will be boring. You have to play nice with Aria. You have to let psychopathic crazy bitch Samara on the Normandy. The Normandy will always be attacked, and your crew always abducted.

Part of writing a tangible narrative for a story is creating a foundation that cannot be changed. This includes locations, characters, events and twists. Mass Effect tries to pride itself by allowing players guide their own experience through this narrative, where even though most everything plays out the same way, little details and outcomes can be changed.

Mordin's death was part of the core narrative for Mass Effect 3. To save him, you must treat his character, and others, a very specific way in previous games. Otherwise he, as a character, exists independently to your own, and makes independent decisions, that you as the player must deal with. You couldn't save him because he made the decision that prevented him from being saved.

If everyone and everything revolved around Space Jesus we'd have an entire narrative as shitty as the end.

 

[HK-47]

In Mass Effect Saren dies. As does Benezia. Either Ashley or Kaiden will die, you cannot save both. You will always go to Ilos. You will always speak to Vigil, and he will always recount the same story of the Protheans. The Citadel will always be attacked, and you can never convince the council of the Reaper threat, not until the very end.

In Mass Effect 2 Thane is always sick. You cannot cure him. There will always be a suicide run, and you have to work with Cerberus. Miranda will always be an annoying bitch. Jack will always be the token tough chick. Jacob will be boring. You have to play nice with Aria. You have to let psychopathic crazy bitch Samara on the Normandy. The Normandy will always be attacked, and your crew always abducted.

Part of writing a tangible narrative for a story is creating a foundation that cannot be changed. This includes locations, characters, events and twists. Mass Effect tries to pride itself by allowing players guide their own experience through this narrative, where even though most everything plays out the same way, little details and outcomes can be changed.

Mordin's death was part of the core narrative for Mass Effect 3. To save him, you must treat his character, and others, a very specific way in previous games. Otherwise he, as a character, exists independently to your own, and makes independent decisions, that you as the player must deal with. You couldn't save him because he made the decision that prevented him from being saved.

If everyone and everything revolved around Space Jesus we'd have an entire narrative as shitty as the end.

Didnt you choose Morinth?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

That's a pretty good read and explains the whole thing well to people who don't even play Mass Effect or any video games.

You mean the people who reviewed it?

 

[EatChildren]

Did you choose Morinth?

Psychotic crazy bitch 1 vs. psychotic crazy bitch 2. I chose the former because I made the (correct) assumption that Morinth would have less dialogue and ultimately be scrapped in the sequel. I like my cameos, and Samara got the better end of the stick.

 

[HK-47]

Psychotic crazy bitch 1 vs. psychotic crazy bitch 2. I chose the former because I made the (correct) assumption that Morinth would have less dialogue and ultimately be scrapped in the sequel. I like my cameos, and Samara got the better end of the stick.

You mean knight templar versus vicious sexual predator.

 

[- J - D -]

So what happens in ME3 if the player chose Morinth over Samara in ME2?

 

[EatChildren]

Pretty much.

So what happens in ME3 if the player chose Morinth over Samara in ME2?

She sends Shepard an email, then shows up as a Banshee on Earth.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Are there any good let's plays of ME3? I really want to see a game where only shep survived the end of 2.

 

[- J - D -]

She sends Shepard an email, then shows up as a Banshee on Earth.

That's pretty cool.

 

[Bowdz]

That's a pretty good read and explains the whole thing well to people who don't even play Mass Effect or any video games.

This quote sums it all up:

This is about a mechanical ending to the game that doesn’t end the story — that provides no emotional release — one so disassociated from the previous 99% of the story that the fans of the series collectively hope it will later be revealed to be a dream (or, in the context of the setting, a final Reaper Indoctrination attempt).

Dear writers: If you create something, and your readers hope that what you just gave them was, in reality, an “it was a dream all along” ending, because that would be better than what you wrote, you seriously. fucked. up.

 

[Divvy]

That's pretty cool.

She's not some special Banshee though. It's just a Banshee with Morinth's name on the health bar. If you aren't paying attention, you'll miss it.

 

[LevelNth]

Why should we have a choice in anything at all? Why not remove all choices and make the game linear with no choices like a Half-Life game? It's not like the Mass Effect series was built on your choices actually having an affect on anything.

This is patently absurd. In a game rife with a metric ton of things to complain about story-wise, you have chosen the absolute worst one, and then made the most ridiculous excuse for such.

Sorry to be harsh, but you're not arguing for having choice, you're arguing for having every single choice possible. I mean, you argue that Mordin has to die (despite mentioning deus ex machina making ZERO sense), then mention a scenario in which he can live. But then you complain about other aspects of that scenario!

Using your logic, we should be able to complain about anything that happened in the game, at any time, simply if it is not what we wanted to have happened.

 

[WrenchNinja]

She's not some special Banshee though. It's just a Banshee with Morinth's name on the health bar. If you aren't paying attention, you'll miss it.

I think she's stronger than a normal Banshee though and is tougher to take down. Kind of like Phantom Jack.

I'm assuming the Geth Prime Legion that people mentioned is also pretty strong.

 

[heliosRAzi]

That's a pretty good read and explains the whole thing well to people who don't even play Mass Effect or any video games.

I like this part:

Dear writers: If you create something, and your readers hope that what you just gave them was, in reality, an “it was a dream all along” ending, because that would be better than what you wrote, you seriously. fucked. up.

 

[I H8 Memes]

In Mass Effect Saren dies. As does Benezia. Either Ashley or Kaiden will die, you cannot save both. You will always go to Ilos. You will always speak to Vigil, and he will always recount the same story of the Protheans. The Citadel will always be attacked, and you can never convince the council of the Reaper threat, not until the very end.

In Mass Effect 2 Thane is always sick. You cannot cure him. There will always be a suicide run, and you have to work with Cerberus. Miranda will always be an annoying bitch. Jack will always be the token tough chick. Jacob will be boring. You have to play nice with Aria. You have to let psychopathic crazy bitch Samara on the Normandy. The Normandy will always be attacked, and your crew always abducted.

Part of writing a tangible narrative for a story is creating a foundation that cannot be changed. This includes locations, characters, events and twists. Mass Effect tries to pride itself by allowing players guide their own experience through this narrative, where even though most everything plays out the same way, little details and outcomes can be changed.

Mordin's death was part of the core narrative for Mass Effect 3. To save him, you must treat his character, and others, a very specific way in previous games. Otherwise he, as a character, exists independently to your own, and makes independent decisions, that you as the player must deal with. You couldn't save him because he made the decision that prevented him from being saved.

If everyone and everything revolved around Space Jesus we'd have an entire narrative as shitty as the end.

It's the way it's framed, Wrex or Mordin, that makes it so artificial. Much like the Kaiden/Ashley choice. Thanes death has it's own problems with all 3 of the squad just standing around waiting for Thane to get killed so we can appropriately feel bad. Kill either Ashley or Kaiden. Kill either Wrex or Mordin. Kill (virtually) either Legion or Tali. So many times. So forced. So fake. How about their next game is a kitten killing simulator where they simply put 1 white and 1 black kitten in front of me and make me choose which one lives, then they kill the other one with a hammer.

Sending the wrong person through the heating tube in ME2 feels like a good reason that someone would die. Taking too many of the heavy hitters in combat with me in ME2 (resulting in either Tali or Mordin dying) makes sense as well. Me having to kill Wrex in ME1 because I hadn't won enough of his trust makes sense. These individual circumstances are based on my choices in the game in a way that makes sense.

 

[flyover]

I like this part:

Yeah. It's a great line. And true.

 

[HK-47]

It's the way it's framed, Wrex or Mordin, that makes it so artificial. Much like the Kaiden/Ashley choice. Thanes death has it's own problems with all 3 of the squad just standing around waiting for Thane to get killed so we can appropriately feel bad. Kill either Ashley or Kaiden. Kill either Wrex or Mordin. Kill (virtually) either Legion or Tali. So many times. So forced. So fake. How about their next game is a kitten killing simulator where they simply put 1 white and 1 black kitten in front of me and make me choose which one lives, then they kill the other one with a hammer.

Sending the wrong person through the heating tube in ME2 feels like a good reason that someone would die. Taking too many of the heavy hitters in combat with me in ME2 (resulting in either Tali or Mordin dying) makes sense as well. Me having to kill Wrex in ME1 because I hadn't won enough of his trust makes sense. These individual circumstances are based on my choices in the game in a way that makes sense.

Except its not like that cause you didnt kill Wrex cause of Mordin. If Wrex is dead and Eve dies due to incomplete data, then Mordin sees no reason to cure the krogan cause of the threat Wreav possesses. There is no mediator. And thus he doesnt need to sacrifice himself. Otherwise, his sense of duty towards correcting his mistakes ("it had to be me. someone else might have gotten it wrong") and his work require him to go up that elevator or for you to gun him down.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Except its not like that cause you didnt kill Wrex cause of Mordin. If Wrex is dead and Eve dies due to incomplete data, then Mordin sees no reason to cure the krogan cause of the threat Wreav possesses. There is no mediator. And thus he doesnt need to sacrifice himself. Otherwise, he's sense of duty towards his mistakes and his work require him to go up that elevator or for you to gun him down.

I like this. It feels organic.

 

[.GqueB.]

Except its not like that cause you didnt kill Wrex cause of Mordin. If Wrex is dead and Eve dies due to incomplete data, then Mordin sees no reason to cure the krogan cause of the threat Wreav possesses. There is no mediator. And thus he doesnt need to sacrifice himself. Otherwise, his sense of duty towards correcting his mistakes ("it had to be me. someone else might have gotten it wrong") and his work require him to go up that elevator or for you to gun him down.

So wait, how exactly does Wrex's death cause all of this? My Wrex is dead but Mordin still ends up dying in 3. I don't remember much detail from the previous games so I'm a bit confuzzled.

 

[HK-47]

So wait, how exactly does Wrex's death cause all of this? My Wrex is dead but Mordin still ends up dying in 3. I don't remember much detail from the previous games so I'm a bit confuzzled.

Eve has to die also.

 

[heliosRAzi]

So wait, how exactly does Wrex's death cause all of this? My Wrex is dead but Mordin still ends up dying in 3. I don't remember much detail from the previous games so I'm a bit confuzzled.

If Wrex dies in the first game, he is replaced by Wreav, a war-mongering idiot. If Eve is dead as well due ti incomplete data, you can convince Mordin to let the genphage stand since Wreav is a war-mongering idiot and doesn't have Eve to keep him in check. If Wrex is dead and Eve is alive, then Mordin will still insist on curing the genophage because Eve is there to keep Wreav in check.

 

[Tajin]

Oh my god your whining and strawmanning is tiring. You just seem bitter Mordin died.

hope you dont ever read A Song of Ice and Fire. You dont have any choice there. That must suck.

Mordin didn't die.

edit: Seashells.

 

[gokieks]

So wait, how exactly does Wrex's death cause all of this? My Wrex is dead but Mordin still ends up dying in 3. I don't remember much detail from the previous games so I'm a bit confuzzled.

If there's no Wrex to unite the Krogan clans, and no Eve to give them a hope for a brighter future, then the Krogans are just written off as more or less a lost cause. It makes perfect sense, and is probably one of the best examples of player choice from previous games being properly accounted for in ME3.

 

[hateradio]

Wrex was the original player choice.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Oh my god your whining and strawmanning is tiring. You just seem bitter Mordin died.

hope you dont ever read A Song of Ice and Fire. You dont have any choice there. That must suck.

I almost missed this gem. This guy. This guy right here talking about other people whining in an ME thread. 75,000 members on NeoGAF, and this is the one that accuses someone of whining in a Mass Effect thread.

 

[Confidence Man]

If there's no Wrex to unite the Krogan clans, and no Eve to give them a hope for a brighter future, then the Krogans are just written off as more or less a lost cause. It makes perfect sense, and is probably one of the best examples of player choice from previous games being properly accounted for in ME3.

So then what happens with that whole level where you go to cure the genophage?

 

[Bisnic]

So then what happens with that whole level where you go to cure the genophage?

I guess you convince Mordin to not go up the tower at the end?

 

[WrenchNinja]

So then what happens with that whole level where you go to cure the genophage?

This happens

 

[LightofRohan]

Nevermind found it

 

[Divvy]

I was wondering if there was some place to watch the cutscenes in their raw uncompressed form? Some of them are really cool, but look super shitty thanks to the compression.

 

[HK-47]

I almost missed this gem. This guy. This guy right here talking about other people whining in an ME thread. 75,000 members on NeoGAF, and this is the one that accuses someone of whining in a Mass Effect thread.

So I see you are done trying to argue your crazy position. You'll get over it. Mordin had a good death. There are lots of character that wish they had deaths like that.

 

[Jasoneyu]

This happens

Holy smokes! I had no Idea Mordin can live, I though he either sacrificed himself or gets shot by the player. Damn player choice can dictate this and not the ending.... WHYYY

 

[EatChildren]

Sending the wrong person through the heating tube in ME2 feels like a good reason that someone would die. Taking too many of the heavy hitters in combat with me in ME2 (resulting in either Tali or Mordin dying) makes sense as well. Me having to kill Wrex in ME1 because I hadn't won enough of his trust makes sense. These individual circumstances are based on my choices in the game in a way that makes sense.

The basis for your argument really is nothing more than "I didn't want Mordin to die". It wasn't forced. He had reasons completely independent from the player, and those reasons were justified. He had an objective. It would be have been forceful and tacky if the narrative allowed you to steer him away from this objective for no other reason than "because". Ironically, the way you can prevent him from dying, is also grounded in reason.

His death was one of the most believable in the series, consistent with his personality and character arc, and handled very tastefully. I'm sorry you can't agree with that.

 

[Doodis]

After all the discussion, and pondering over a couple days, I've come to the conclusion that the ending to Mass Effect 1 was one of my favorite endings of all time, and ME3 could have patterned after it to great success.

If they had actually had a war going on that you could "control" at the end, sending your different forces this way and that, and have your decisions effect who lives and who dies, similar to saving the council or not in ME1, it could have been great. I wouldn't have minded some of my squadmates dying if it was my decision.

Of course, that doesn't fix everything that's wrong with the ending (Joker deserting, godchild, etc.) but it would have improved it.

 

[I H8 Memes]

The basis for your argument really is nothing more than "I didn't want Mordin to die". It wasn't forced. He had reasons completely independent from the player, and those reasons were justified. He had an objective. It would be have been forceful and tacky if the narrative allowed you to steer him away from this objective for no other reason than "because". Ironically, the way you can prevent him from dying, is also grounded in reason.

His death was one of the most believable in the series, consistent with his personality and character arc, and handled very tastefully. I'm sorry you can't agree with that.

Not true. I didn't really care for the character with the new voice actor. And it isn't like we could take him along for missions. With the structure of the series he is just a minor character. Every character except Tali, Garrus, Liara, and Ashley/Kaiden are minor tag along characters.

 

[HK-47]

There is nothing minor about Mordin's role in the turian/krogan alliance. Also Ashley/Kaiden are in a bed for half the game and you barely talk to them on the ship.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The Mordin stuff was fine. I thought Thane's death was kind of shitty, though.

 

[EatChildren]

Not true. I didn't really care for the character with the new voice actor. And it isn't like we could take him along for missions. With the structure of the series he is just a minor character. Every character except Tali, Garrus, Liara, and Ashley/Kaiden are minor tag along characters.

None of this refutes my point, the point being he was an established character, with an established personality, and established goals. It doesn't matter how major or minor he was to other characters. This is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is who he is, based on how the game establishes him. Both ME2 and ME3 give his character more than enough exposition to make his reasoning genuine and believable.

 

[Haunted]

Mordin is the most interesting character Bioware has created... probably one of the best in gaming history. I have no objection to any scene involving him in ME2 or 3.

Great stuff.

So good.

I've just been playing ME2 again, and the rachni representative on Illium really builds up the awesomeness of being a friend of the rachni. And what do we get? A few off-screen workers. Such a disappointment.

The funniest thing is that I killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 and end up with the exact same outcome in ME3 - 100 green bar points and an email about workers.

 

[HK-47]

The funniest thing is that I killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 and end up with the exact same outcome in ME3 - 100 green bar points and an email about workers.

Look again. The reaper queen revolts and kills a bunch of the engineering team.

 

[MC Safety]

After all the discussion, and pondering over a couple days, I've come to the conclusion that the ending to Mass Effect 1 was one of my favorite endings of all time, and ME3 could have patterned after it to great success.

If they had actually had a war going on that you could "control" at the end, sending your different forces this way and that, and have your decisions effect who lives and who dies, similar to saving the council or not in ME1, it could have been great. I wouldn't have minded some of my squadmates dying if it was my decision.

Of course, that doesn't fix everything that's wrong with the ending (Joker deserting, godchild, etc.) but it would have improved it.

I'm not sure why people hail the ending to Mass Effect as something worthy of note.

You're fighting a spider while a giant battle rages outside. It's the ending to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, except in Knights of the Old Republic, you have to battle two excellent bosses.

 

[EatChildren]

Aside form the "oh by the way Rachni are back" handling of that quest (a mission I actually quite liked, mostly for Grunt broing it up), I really disliked how the Rachni queen herself was handled. She seemed overly desperate, whiny and pathetic, based on that brief encounter. Her words in ME1, along with the Asari's message on ME2, made her seem more collected and wise.

I was totally expecting some ships and shit to show up, the Rachni re-established in the galaxy, not some "princess in another castle" shit.

 

[HK-47]

I want a Rachni soldier in Galaxy at War.

 

[Bowdz]

After all the discussion, and pondering over a couple days, I've come to the conclusion that the ending to Mass Effect 1 was one of my favorite endings of all time, and ME3 could have patterned after it to great success.

If they had actually had a war going on that you could "control" at the end, sending your different forces this way and that, and have your decisions effect who lives and who dies, similar to saving the council or not in ME1, it could have been great. I wouldn't have minded some of my squadmates dying if it was my decision.

Of course, that doesn't fix everything that's wrong with the ending (Joker deserting, godchild, etc.) but it would have improved it.

I really wish Bioware had used ME1's ending as a model for ME3. Not only does it have a great heroic sense of accomplishment when the credits roll, but you make quite a few important decisions in the final push of the game. Honestly, the Rachni Queen was one of the hardest decisions for me in ME3 simply because they made it sound like Grunt would die if you chose the Queen.

 

[.GqueB.]

If there's no Wrex to unite the Krogan clans, and no Eve to give them a hope for a brighter future, then the Krogans are just written off as more or less a lost cause. It makes perfect sense, and is probably one of the best examples of player choice from previous games being properly accounted for in ME3.

ah I see. I got lost at the Eve part of the explanation. Didn't know it was possible to have incomplete data.

The Krogan threat was annoying in my story. Felt very unfinished because Wreav and Eve kept fighting back and forth about whether or not to start a war once everything was said and done. It was never quite figured out. Felt like it could go either way.

 

[HK-47]

I really wish Bioware had used ME1's ending as a model for ME3. Not only does it have a great heroic sense of accomplishment when the credits roll, but you make quite a few important decisions in the final push of the game. Honestly, the Rachni Queen was one of the hardest decisions for me in ME3 simply because they made it sound like Grunt would die if you chose the Queen.

If he isnt loyal to you, he will.

 

[heliosRAzi]

 

[EatChildren]

I really wish Bioware had used ME1's ending as a model for ME3. Not only does it have a great heroic sense of accomplishment when the credits roll, but you make quite a few important decisions in the final push of the game. Honestly, the Rachni Queen was one of the hardest decisions for me in ME3 simply because they made it sound like Grunt would die if you chose the Queen.

They kinda tried, but failed. Many elements of both the intro and final moments mirror the events of the first game. They obviously tried to play some kind of homage to how the trilogy began.

But then, you know, floating platform and space child.