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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

daedalius

Member
Good video. Hits most of the stuff spot on.

However, Mr. Archengeia is still #1 on the topic of ME3 Endings.

This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUqAhKW7498

and the subsequent videos. 100% agree as a fan of the game from day 1.

I actually like the idea of the original ending by DK.

Ugh.

I am in the same boat of thinking that the ending couldn't possibly be as bad as everyone said it was... until I actually got there.

Everyone could die and it would be a better ending than what we got, imo. Some kind of resolution, please.
 
I don't mind the destruction of the Mass Relays if they've intentionally set up the Sol situation to be the setting of a new game -- reunite the species, get everyone home. If they leave it as it is, or intend to flesh the situation out via DLC then that is shitty (though I'd take the latter over nothing).
 
In other words, you don't mind a downer ending so long as it isn't to bleak? Can't say I even remotely agree with that, but I can accept it. As I indicated in my original post, I am no fan of the way the ending was handled, but the bleakness doesn't bother me.

It ends in a way in which almost nothing you've done affects the outcome. The galaxy doesn't pay a high price because the fight you've been building up to over 3 games requires that sacrifice. The galaxy pays that price because a character introduced in the last 10 minutes says so. If the bleak ending was just a consequence of what it took to defeat the Reapers or even lose to the Reapers, that's cool, I can deal with that. The fact that the fight isn't even really fought and all the death and destruction is just deemed necessary by the illogical starchild in the final 10 minutes takes away all the power of a bittersweet or even bleak ending. It's just dumb.
 

flyover

Member
So, here's one other question I have about the ending. Why was I given the three choices in the first place? Except for being the main character in a video game series, what exactly made Shepard so deserving to choose the fate of not only the Reapers, but the entire galaxy?
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
In other words, you don't mind a downer ending so long as it isn't to bleak? Can't say I even remotely agree with that, but I can accept it. As I indicated in my original post, I am no fan of the way the ending was handled, but the bleakness doesn't bother me.

Well from my perspective, I wouldn't care at all if the ending was bleak as hell so long as the conclusions were drawn from what happens previously in the games. Hell they could actually have the canon ending result in the Quarians and Geth having a falling out and wiping each other out and Krogans raping and eating everyone in the galaxy and that would have been fine because those were outcomes that were depending on my actions in the game. Instead we have an ending that draws absolutely nothing from what happens previously. Nothing you do previously in the last three games affects anything in the conclusion of the game.
 
Mass Effect: Homeworlds comic preview is up. Somebody buy this so you can tell us how bad it is.

Fg0Wv.jpg



http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=45980
 

flyover

Member
I am in the same boat of thinking that the ending couldn't possibly be as bad as everyone said it was... until I actually got there.

Same. In fact, I was determined not to think it was bad, like I was trying to enjoy Vogon poetry. I didn't want it to be bad. Even if it'd fizzled out with a "meh" ending, I'd have been fine with it, because of all the goodwill the series had earned.

I was watching it, thinking, "This isn't so bad. I don't know what people are... Uh, what's that? Why's the stupid kid (that isn't really the kid) there? What the fuck is this bullshit he's talking about? Oh, Goddammit..." And then it got worse.
 

Coxswain

Member
In other words, you don't mind a downer ending so long as it isn't to bleak? Can't say I even remotely agree with that, but I can accept it. As I indicated in my original post, I am no fan of the way the ending was handled, but the bleakness doesn't bother me.

Bleak is not bleak is not bleak. A story's ending should be written to fit with the tone and the themes used throughout the rest of the story. A bleak ending to The Road is different from a bleak ending to Sleeping Beauty. It doesn't matter whether you generally like bleak stories or not - adding a bleak ending onto a story that didn't earn it is every bit as bad as adding a happy storybook ending onto a story that didn't earn that.

Mass Effect absolutely did not earn its bleak, nihilistic ending. There are specific arguments against specific logical points and specific thematic concepts that the ending botched up in specific ways, but if we're boiling the ending down to just one adjective, a bleak ending is a bad call.
 
In other words, you don't mind a downer ending so long as it isn't to bleak? Can't say I even remotely agree with that, but I can accept it. As I indicated in my original post, I am no fan of the way the ending was handled, but the bleakness doesn't bother me.

That's just one facet of why the ending. There's no variety to the endings and in every single one, the galaxy gets plunged into a dark age. People don't mind the bleakness, but they want variety.
 
Yeah, coming up to the ending, it seemed like it couldn't possibly be as bad as it was made out to be. There were issues as I was playing and I wasn't a fan of the Crucible in general but things were building up nicely and I thought it was a big step up over ME 2. Then I got to the Citadel with the Illusive Man and Anderson. I thought this must be what everyone hated, this isn't so bad. It was a little awkward but not nearly as bad as it was made out to be. I thought, the part near the end when Hackett contacts a near death Shepard to tell her that the Crucible wasn't working and Shepard was frantically trying to fix things before she died, was heart wrenching in a great way. But then the elevator picked her up and I finally saw what the fuss was about and it was actually more negatively impactful than I even considered. Such a bummer.
 

ultron87

Member
I was hoping the plot dump device would be a giant talking Keeper revealing they had been the force behind everything that happened in all the games.
 
So... are they like... giving Vega all his character development outside the game? He's got an anime and now a comic?

Walters: Hey, let's introduce a new character in the third and final game and then devote an entire anime and comic to him instead of the more interesting characters like Garrus, Wrex, or Liara!

Hudson: You just blew my mind, Mac! Get on that shit now! This is fucking art, high level shit, bro!

Walters: Hey dude, I know what else we can do, too!

And that's how Beast Machines was made
600full-beast-machines+-transformers-artwork.jpg
 

ultron87

Member
I didn't mind Vega at all. I didn't use him on my squad, but the occasional conversation with him was fine.

I wish they had tailored his class/power set based on whether you have Kaiden or Ashley. If you have Ashley the only Biotic person you get is Liara.
 
It ends in a way in which almost nothing you've done affects the outcome. The galaxy doesn't pay a high price because the fight you've been building up to over 3 games requires that sacrifice. The galaxy pays that price because a character introduced in the last 10 minutes says so. If the bleak ending was just a consequence of what it took to defeat the Reapers or even lose to the Reapers, that's cool, I can deal with that. The fact that the fight isn't even really fought and all the death and destruction is just deemed necessary by the illogical starchild in the final 10 minutes takes away all the power of a bittersweet or even bleak ending. It's just dumb.
This sums it all up very nicely.

We get railroaded at the end, plain and simple. I had this grandiose idea that all of my choices were going to truly affect so much in ME3 and walked away only with war assets. :-|
 
Just finished last night... this after starting over with a ME2 save game so that I could save Tali after she died on my first play through (and meet Jack, Thane, Grunt, etc). The ending was terrible. It shouldn't have been allowed. What was wrong with keeping the Reapers as an evil force that must be stopped? They had to muck it up with some stupid AI God-Child thingy? I don't mind people dying, but there was no reason to destroy the Citidel or the Relays. I loved the game, but I'm just flabbergasted that some tester (and I saw a lot of them in the damned credits) didn't step up and tell them that everybody with an IQ above 30 was going to actively HATE the ending.
 
Just finished last night... this after starting over with a ME2 save game so that I could save Tali after she died on my first play through (and meet Jack, Thane, Grunt, etc). The ending was terrible. It shouldn't have been allowed. What was wrong with keeping the Reapers as an evil force that must be stopped? They had to muck it up with some stupid AI God-Child thingy? I don't mind people dying, but there was no reason to destroy the Citidel or the Relays. I loved the game, but I'm just flabbergasted that some tester (and I saw a lot of them in the damned credits) didn't step up and tell them that everybody with an IQ above 30 was going to actively HATE the ending.

Artistic integrity and yadda yadda yadda.

Welcome to the group support thread. The hugs aren't free anymore (we actually ran out of them a long time ago.)

Now you must learn up on your memes: SPECULATION, artistic integrity, high level, and most of all, Marauder Shields. He tried to protect you from the end
 
Good god I hate uncomplete soundtrack.

I just download from social bioware the N7 soundtrack and... it's missing many tracks I wanted to hear.

The tune in Palaven ? Not here.

What is the point of soundtrack if many themes are missing ?!

Edit : actually credits theme is there.
 
Bleak is not bleak is not bleak. A story's ending should be written to fit with the tone and the themes used throughout the rest of the story. A bleak ending to The Road is different from a bleak ending to Sleeping Beauty. It doesn't matter whether you generally like bleak stories or not - adding a bleak ending onto a story that didn't earn it is every bit as bad as adding a happy storybook ending onto a story that didn't earn that.

Mass Effect absolutely did not earn its bleak, nihilistic ending. There are specific arguments against specific logical points and specific thematic concepts that the ending botched up in specific ways, but if we're boiling the ending down to just one adjective, a bleak ending is a bad call.

THIS!

I think that is the biggest problem with the ending, you cannot go bleak/happy/existential or whatever out of nowhere. You need to earn it. No Country For Old men was bleak as hell, and so its ending worked. Silen Hill 2 was one of the darkest games ever made thematically, so most people prefer the 'In Water' ending as a result, it fits.

ME3 has the same problem that the end of BSG had, when you build up a series to be all about triumphing over adversity, no matter how grim things get, then muck the whole thing up with an ending that spits in the face of that, you have a problem.

It would be like ending a Mario game with the grisly death of Luigi and Peach, or ending a Monkey Island game with Guybrush turning into an abusive drunk. Or ending Star Wars on a rumination about whether Droids have souls.

So, yeah, great work Bioware
 

Lime

Member
Good god I hate uncomplete soundtrack.

I just download from social bioware the N7 soundtrack and... it's missing many tracks I wanted to hear.

The tune in Palaven ? Not here.

What is the point of soundtrack if many themes are missing ?!

Edit : actually credits theme is there.

.ogg extractor.
 
I didn't mind Vega at all. I didn't use him on my squad, but the occasional conversation with him was fine.

I wish they had tailored his class/power set based on whether you have Kaiden or Ashley. If you have Ashley the only Biotic person you get is Liara.
Should have paid those 10 bones for Javik to get your second biotic. He and Liara make some beautiful explosions together.
 
Should have paid those 10 bones for Javik to get your second biotic. He and Liara make some beautiful explosions together.

..and he gives you the best weapon in the game. Infinitely rechargeable so you can have +200% recharge and use your biotics/tech properly.
 

Pie Lord

Member
Bleak is not bleak is not bleak. A story's ending should be written to fit with the tone and the themes used throughout the rest of the story. A bleak ending to The Road is different from a bleak ending to Sleeping Beauty. It doesn't matter whether you generally like bleak stories or not - adding a bleak ending onto a story that didn't earn it is every bit as bad as adding a happy storybook ending onto a story that didn't earn that.

Mass Effect absolutely did not earn its bleak, nihilistic ending. There are specific arguments against specific logical points and specific thematic concepts that the ending botched up in specific ways, but if we're boiling the ending down to just one adjective, a bleak ending is a bad call.
You don't think a story that centers around the struggle against a cycle of mass genocide that has continued for untold millenia doesn't lend itself to a bleak ending? I can't agree with that. As far as I'm concerned the problem with the ending has nothing to do with its bleak tone, and everything to do with the encounter with the Catalyst and how poorly that fit into the larger scheme of Mass Effect's story. Aside from that of course, you also have the problem of the underwhelming manner in which your prior choices are represented in the climax.
 

DJMicLuv

Member
It's disappointing if true. So many other peeps I'd like to see with their own stuff.

Like a Garrus cop show.

Garrus and Mordin, an unlikely pairing - Garrus as the hard-nosed cop, Mordin as his Sherlock-esque detective side-kick. Cleaning up the universe one body-bag at a time!

I don't give a fuck about Vega. He was a character that, especially compared to some of the outlandish, interesting and fun crew members, has nothing to compel me to talk to him (even though I did (he said nothing)).

He's sort of marketable to a certain type of gamer but I'm not that guy - I prefered Tali, Garrus, Mordin, Joker, EDI, and Wrex who really had a lot of individual character evident during most conversations. My memorable moments involve these characters, not Vega who I didn't give a toss about at any time during my playthrough.

He's marketable and safe though, which is probably why he's being pushed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a spin off game staring him at some point. I don't think I'll be buying it though.
 

Haunted

Member
Vega isn't a bad character, just a bit bland.

People could forgive bland characters in ME2 (hi Jacob) because they had 10+2 to choose from instead of what, half that? in 3.
 

Coxswain

Member
You don't think a story that centers around the struggle against a cycle of mass genocide that has continued for untold millenia doesn't lend itself to a bleak ending? I can't agree with that. As far as I'm concerned the problem with the ending has nothing to do with its bleak tone, and everything to do with the encounter with the Catalyst and how poorly that fit into the larger scheme of Mass Effect's story. Aside from that of course, you also have the problem of the underwhelming manner in which your prior choices are represented in the climax.

Since day one, the series has been about Shepard overcoming impossible odds. Since before day one - the Colonist and Earthborn backgrounds are about Shepard overcoming some pretty long odds even as a kid, and the War Hero and Sole Survivor military histories are explicitly about performing an action so outrageous and outlikely that it places her at the absolute top of the list of the entire human race to be considered for a prestigious, symbolically important position.
It only escalates from there. The second game ends with Shepard literally surviving a Suicide Mission*, potentially without sacrificing a single squadmate or crew member. The first act of Mass Effect 3 involves Shepard curing a plague that has wounded an entire race for more than 1400 years, and healing the wounds that drove apart two of the primary species involved. There is a happy ending for everyone involved, so long as you choose that path. The second act involves making peace between two species who have been mortal enemies since the literal moment of the genesis of the younger species, to the point where they form a symbiotic relationship and almost immediately begin advancing forward together faster than they ever could working alone. It is an unambiguously happy ending.
Not only has Shepard been doing the impossible since about fifteen years before the first game even began, but the extent to which her actions have resulted in a happy ending has been increasing, from 'Just barely holding on to her own life/Escaping a hard life on the streets' to 'Managing to hold Elysium with heavy losses/Staying alive while the rest of her unit is slaughtered' up to 'The Geth and the Quarians are doing together in months what it would have taken them decades to do working apart'.

The specifics of how dangerous the Reapers are isn't really important. From a storytelling perspective, they are simply the most impossible of all the impossible situations Shepard has faced down. They're the climax of the story, and the last, greatest trial that Shepard has to overcome. To be thematically consistent with the entire franchise up until that point, it must be a decisive victory. "No matter what you do, you throw the entire galaxy into a dark age that is guaranteed to kill many times over the number of people who were killed by the Reapers up until that point" is not appropriate as a mandatory, "this always happens no matter what" component of the ending. Having the Mass Relays blow up should have been in the game as an option, but it should have been the Mass Effect 3 equivalent of dying at the end of the Suicide Mission, or at most coming out of the suicide mission with the bare minimum number of surviving squadmates. The "best" ending should have involved galactic society picking up the pieces and moving on, with no further shaking up of the status quo. That wouldn't even be a super-happy, "Disney" ending - it still doesn't bring back the untold billions of people who are killed by the Reapers between the start and the end of the game, the colonies and planets that were razed, the families destroyed, the cultures lost, etc. Ignoring all of the messages of the franchise and contradicting nearly all of what should have been foreshadowing for the end, in favour of an ending that essentially kills the galaxy even if you do absolutely everything right is just completely unwarranted, and embarrassingly poor storytelling.

Put another way: This is the 'sad' ending equivalent of having Shepard find the seven magic Dragon Balls and ask the dragon Shenron to bring back to life all the people that were ever killed by the Reapers, and for his second and third wish to also bring back Mordin only he won't be old anymore and to fix Thane's lungs and download Legion's personality into Shepard's space coffee mug.




*(And I'll point out here that it doesn't really matter if you don't think the suicide mission seemed all that dangerous, or if you don't think the Collectors are as threatening as the Reapers, or whatever. The first real trailer released for the game started with something like "I'm collecting specialists for a suicide mission...", it was used everywhere in the game's marketing, it's on the back of the box, that's how characters in-game are constantly referencing it, and it's what it's actually called by the game. In story terms, symbolically, it means "You are not meant to survive this", and yet Shepard does - and not only that, but can ensure that a dozen playable characters, as well as every named and unnamed member of the ME2 Normandy crew, survives along with her.)
 

shamanick

Member
Count me in the camp that disliked Vega. I really cannot understand why they put this Jersey Shore-looking mook in a space opera. All you ever really get from him is angst about Earth, and that is more than provided by both Shepard and Anderson. Total waste of a character slot. It would have been really cool to see a Batarian in his place, even a Volus or a Hanar would have been cool (but strange). We already have a human, what's the point?
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Count me in the camp that disliked Vega. I really cannot understand why they put this Jersey Shore-looking mook in a space opera. All you ever really get from him is angst about Earth, and that is more than provided by both Shepard and Anderson. Total waste of a character slot. It would have been really cool to see a Batarian in his place, even a Volus or a Hanar would have been cool (but strange). We already have a human, what's the point?

Because they know dudebros wouldnt want a big stupid jellyfish as a squadmate. They needed the douchebag looking dude that seems to come out of a reality show.
 

shamanick

Member
Because they know dudebros wouldnt want a big stupid jellyfish as a squadmate. They needed the douchebag looking dude that seems to come out of a reality show.

Fair enough but it still boggles my mind that EA thought dudebro is a viable marketing strategy for a series with a fucking codex.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Count me in the camp that disliked Vega. I really cannot understand why they put this Jersey Shore-looking mook in a space opera. All you ever really get from him is angst about Earth, and that is more than provided by both Shepard and Anderson. Total waste of a character slot. It would have been really cool to see a Batarian in his place, even a Volus or a Hanar would have been cool (but strange). We already have a human, what's the point?

Because they wanted to market Star Trek to Jersey Shore fans.
 

Rapstah

Member
Count me in the camp that disliked Vega. I really cannot understand why they put this Jersey Shore-looking mook in a space opera. All you ever really get from him is angst about Earth, and that is more than provided by both Shepard and Anderson. Total waste of a character slot. It would have been really cool to see a Batarian in his place, even a Volus or a Hanar would have been cool (but strange). We already have a human, what's the point?

Oh, man, a Batarian squad mate would have been cool. They could have done so much with the conversations with how Batarians really hate humans for totally valid reasons.
 
In other words, you don't mind a downer ending so long as it isn't to bleak? Can't say I even remotely agree with that, but I can accept it. As I indicated in my original post, I am no fan of the way the ending was handled, but the bleakness doesn't bother me.
The end wasn't bleak or morose it was spiteful, the main feeling while watching it was of the writers 'getting it out the way'. They may as well have just had the words "Fuck you" on screen for the last 20 minutes.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Oh, man, a Batarian squad mate would have been cool. They could have done so much with the conversations with how Batarians really hate humans for totally valid reasons.

They should have taken that sick & dying Batarian guy from Mordin recruitment mission in ME2. He saw that humans werent all that bad.

Well, he could also be dead if you werent a nice Shepard. Nevermind.
 
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