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[bonesmccoy]

Your team mates made it back to Normandy while you were being told the facts by Space Child.

I suppose the new ending will add things like that: why the crew didn't make it with you, and why they were fleeing Earth as you destroyed all the Mass Relays.

Wait - I may be misremembering this - didn't Shep have to take a shuttle down to London, all incognito? Because Reaper defences would have blown a large ship to smithereens?

And where would the Normandy land? Right next to a gigantic Reaper laser beam thingamajig?

And Joker just picked up his buddies, ignoring all the other stranded soldiers?

"Sorry Lt No-name, I'm only here for Javik"

 

[WrenchNinja]

Even with the cut dialogue, it is still totally out of character for Joker to abandon Shepard or the fight.

 

[Struct09]

I watched a video about the "Indoctrination Theory" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck ), and am slightly on board with what they're getting at. I think they over-thought some things, but there's some good evidence on what might have been happening during the ending. If Bioware decides to tweak and/or clarify the ending, I'll be curious to see how much of this "theory" lines up.

 

[heliosRAzi]

It amazes me how much discussion the endings have cause

 

[DTKT]

I watched a video about the "Indoctrination Theory" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck ), and am slightly on board with what they're getting at. I think they over-thought some things, but there's some good evidence on what might have been happening during the ending. If Bioware decides to tweak and/or clarify the ending, I'll be curious to see how much of this "theory" lines up.

Don't. Stop even thinking about it. It a really popular theory because it's actually smart and kind of bold. Plus, it kind of makes the ending less terrible.

That's all it does. It makes the ending a bit sweeter and less of a kick in the balls.

But,it's still pure fabrication and absolutely insane. Bioware doesn't have the expertise nor the courage to attempt something like that. The simplest explanation is just that they ran out of time. Endings are always created and worked on last. With ME3 having a hellish dev cycle, the ending suffered with the least amount of work and insane deadlines.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I watched a video about the "Indoctrination Theory" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck ), and am slightly on board with what they're getting at. I think they over-thought some things, but there's some good evidence on what might have been happening during the ending. If Bioware decides to tweak and/or clarify the ending, I'll be curious to see how much of this "theory" lines up.

On board, what? The train to confirmationbiasland? Bioware will line-up 0% of the theory, because it's not true.

 

[Pancho]

It amazes me how much discussion the endings have cause

Yeah, I've never seen a reaction like this about a game. But really, as much as I would hope for some sort of fix, I'll doubt it'll happen. Whatever they are planning to do is gonna fuck it all up even more.

 

[Psychoward]

Wait - I may be misremembering this - didn't Shep have to take a shuttle down to London, all incognito? Because Reaper defences would have blown a large ship to smithereens?

And where would the Normandy land? Right next to a gigantic Reaper laser beam thingamajig?

And Joker just picked up his buddies, ignoring all the other stranded soldiers?

"Sorry Lt No-name, I'm only here for Javik"

Speaking of leaving Lt. No-name, in the first 15 minutes of the game Anderson says he's going to get two soldiers out of there, yet he doesn't bring them to the Normandy.

Plot holes, plot holes everywhere.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Kingdom Hearts makes more sense than this ending.

 

[LightofRohan]

It amazes me how much discussion the endings have cause

Yea holy shit. I'll give Bioware major cred for that... if it was just the ending we all hoped for, I'd been done and happy with this game. It's been 2 weeks since I finished it and Im still obsessive over it...

 

[Struct09]

Don't. Stop even thinking about it. It a really popular theory because it's actually smart and kind of bold. Plus, it kind of makes the ending less terrible.

That's all it does. It makes the ending a bit sweeter and less of a kick in the balls.

But,it's still pure fabrication and absolutely insane. Bioware doesn't have the expertise nor the courage to attempt something like that. The simplest explanation is just that they ran out of time. Endings are always created and worked on last. With ME3 having a hellish dev cycle, the ending suffered with the least amount of work and insane deadlines.

I find it worth thinking about, even if it were to be completely false and only serve to make the ending sweeter. It's an interpretation of what happened and makes for interesting discussion. And I don't find it to be that insane or implausible, if any of their theories actually line up with what Bioware was going for then I believe it was simply poorly presented during the ending. Which ties into your belief that the ending was rushed (which wouldn't surprise me) - no matter what they were going for with the ending there was definitely a lack of clarity and closure.

If there's some good arguments that debunk the indoctrination idea, I'd love to read them.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I find it worth thinking about, even if it were to be completely false and only serve to make the ending sweeter. It's an interpretation of what happened and makes for interesting discussion. And I don't find it to be that insane or implausible, if any of their theories actually line up with what Bioware was going for then I believe it was simply poorly presented during the ending. Which ties into your belief that the ending was rushed (which wouldn't surprise me) - no matter what they were going for with the ending there was definitely a lack of clarity and closure.

If there's some good arguments that debunk the indoctrination idea, I'd love to read them.

Yes, there are: Occam's Razor.

 

[Omega]

Wait - I may be misremembering this - didn't Shep have to take a shuttle down to London, all incognito? Because Reaper defences would have blown a large ship to smithereens?

And where would the Normandy land? Right next to a gigantic Reaper laser beam thingamajig?

And Joker just picked up his buddies, ignoring all the other stranded soldiers?

"Sorry Lt No-name, I'm only here for Javik"

This is what I thought.

But LOTS OF SPECULATION I guess..right? or Space Magic?

 

[DTKT]

Yes, there are: Occam's Razor.

Listen to this man.

I feel like debating the issue is like debating the existence of UFO's. Ultimately, it's irrelevant to even discuss the possibility since it has no repercussions on Earth whatsoever. Till they invade us, of course.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Listen to this man.

I feel like debating the issue is like debating the existence of UFO's. Ultimately, it's irrelevant to even discuss the possibility since it has no repercussions on Earth whatsoever. Till they invade us, of course.

The regulars of this thread need to throw together a preemptive response to Indoctrination Theory posters. I'm trying to find my own posts on it.

Edit: Here is my refutation of Indoctrination Theory; hateradio has lines of actual code proving the decisions are real; and, there are plenty of other rebuttals.

 

[HadesGigas]

Speaking of leaving Lt. No-name, in the first 15 minutes of the game Anderson says he's going to get two soldiers out of there, yet he doesn't bring them to the Normandy.

Plot holes, plot holes everywhere.

He got them out of there to presumably go with him wherever the hell he spends his time on Earth between Vancouver and London.

 

[hateradio]

The regulars of this thread need to throw together a preemptive response to Indoctrination Theory posters. I'm trying to find my own posts on it.

Just photoshop someone's face on it.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I know it's been said (many times) but we've been going through the same arguments and debates since the beginning of the last thread.

And we've grown exceedingly efficient at it

 

[Dany]

Just photoshop someone's face on it.

Is that your shepard? I like his face.

You have the code?

 

[Tookay]

I watched a video about the "Indoctrination Theory" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck ), and am slightly on board with what they're getting at. I think they over-thought some things, but there's some good evidence on what might have been happening during the ending. If Bioware decides to tweak and/or clarify the ending, I'll be curious to see how much of this "theory" lines up.

Can we just make this the first post at the top of every page?

And the second post the standard "It's bullshit because logic" response?

I'd appreciate it.

 

[Replicant]

Kingdom Hearts makes more sense than this ending.

There's an idea Bioware can steal. Shepard falling from Citadel after Destroy ending in slow-motion while "Hikari" or "Simple and Clear" plays in the background.

 

[Reave]

It amazes me how much discussion the endings have cause

What amazes me more is how most people aren't sick of talking about it by now. Not saying the ending isn't jacked up. It is, but still.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I think I've had more fun talking about the ending and reading criticism about it than I did playing Mass Effect 3. That's kind of sad.

 

[Divvy]

It's just fun to talk and speculate about the ending. Though I did really enjoy most of the game, and surprisingly I've put in a lot of time into the multiplayer.

 

[heliosRAzi]

What amazes me more is how most people aren't sick of talking about it by now. Not saying the ending isn't jacked up. It is, but still.

Because people keep finishing it.

While they are playing it, they think there couldn't be anything wrong with it. Then it happens

 

[Karl2177]

Just photoshop someone's face on it.

Shitty 5 minute photoshop:

 

[hateradio]

You should have removed his neck.

 

[Dany]

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Indoct. Theory 4 LIFE!

 

[Karl2177]

You should have removed his neck.

Like so? I'm not too big on either, but I needed a break from my Java for a while.

 

[Divvy]

The cat's face looks like Garrus', put his face there.

 

[Struct09]

Yes, there are: Occam's Razor.

I actually feel like Shepard being indoctrinated is a simple explanation. While some parts of the theory are over-thought, there's still some evidence that it was happening.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I actually feel like Shepard being indoctrinated is a simple explanation. While some parts of the theory are over-thought, there's still some evidence that it was happening.

Occam's Razor isn't about a "simpler" explanation per se; it's about which option needs the least assumptions in order to explain something. Do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that the writers at Bioware are capable of pulling this off? And, why, when faced with unprecedented backlash, would they not release a press statement explaining Indoctrination Theory? Unless, of course, you, like I, interpret the dream sequences of ME3 as deeply Jacobian (thus, nihilistic) in nature. If Bioware got one theme right -- it's that one. Agreed?

 

[heliosRAzi]

I actually feel like Shepard being indoctrinated is a simple explanation. While some parts of the theory are over-thought, there's still some evidence that it was happening.

It's few easier to just say that Bioware is lazy and that's why there are so many inconsistencies. We know that the ending was rushed. They finalized the ending in November when it was originally supposed to come out.

 

[DTKT]

I actually feel like Shepard being indoctrinated is a simple explanation. While some parts of the theory are over-thought, there's still some evidence that it was happening.

The evidence can be explained by the fact that there was a Indoctrination plot at some point. That was confirmed by the leaked script. They left the cues because it's easier to not remove them and possibly break something.

 

[Basileus777]

Indoctrination theory only works if you ignore authorial intent, which is fine, the game should stand on its own. Walters' scribblings don't really matter and interpreting works without looking at the author's intentions can be legitimate. But indoctrination wouldn't fix anything, it would just make the ending dumb, contrived, and poorly written in a different sort of way.

 

[hateradio]

Is that your shepard? I like his face.

You have the code?

I don't think anyone's ever asked for it. He's not (that) hot. And everyone knows that it's all about looks.

It needs to be tweaked since it was originally created with ME1, and I used the website method to try to import it.

 

[Dany]

I don't think anyone's ever asked for it. He's not hot.

It needs to be tweaked since it was originally created with ME1, and I used the website method to try to import it.

https://minus.com/mm://i.minus.com/jYslB3MEWbjT7.png[/IMG

Thanks, play more paragon, he'd probably look a lot better.

I've been trying to find a nice face/code for my male shepard run, but most of them look like crap.

 

[Struct09]

Occam's Razor isn't about a "simpler" explanation per se; it's about which option needs the least assumptions in order to explain something. Do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that the writers at Bioware are capable of pulling this off? And, why, when faced with unprecedented backlash, would they not release a press statement explaining Indoctrination Theory? Unless, of course, you, like I, interpret the dream sequences of ME3 as deeply Jacobian (thus, nihilistic) in nature. If Bioware got one theme right -- it's that one. Agreed?

If it were true I honestly wouldn't feel they pulled off anything grand, it would just be a cool twist on the sci-fi story they were telling. As for a press statement to the backlash, they've already said they're working on something to help provide clarity and closure and we'll hear more soon.

And as for the dream sequences, I honestly didn't know what to make of them - but they fit in line with side-effects of being indoctrinated (hallucinations of ghostly presences).

 

[rdrr gnr]

If it were true I honestly wouldn't feel they pulled off anything grand, it would just be a cool twist on the sci-fi story they were telling. As for a press statement to the backlash, they've already said they're working on something to help provide clarity and closure and we'll hear more soon.

Well, it wouldn't be a twist in any traditional sense. Right, even then, why not say, "you must go deeper" or something to help mitigate the unfettered rage of nerds everywhere.

And as for the dream sequences, I honestly didn't know what to make of them - but they fit in line with side-effects of being indoctrinated (hallucinations of ghostly presences).

Yes, but you find them deeply nihilistic? Divvy and I do.

 

[hateradio]

Thanks, play more paragon, he'd probably look a lot better.

I've been trying to find a nice face/code for my male shepard run, but most of them look like crap.

That's like asking me to do something impossibly annoying like talk to a stupid kid--eh.

Here are some pre-renegade scar images.

 

[flyover]

But LOTS OF SPECULATION I guess..right?

The funny thing is that the ending really hasn't lead to any speculation. Discussion about what was bad, yes. But, except for indoctrination theorists, not much speculation about what happened.

 

[Basileus777]

The funny thing is that the ending really hasn't lead to any speculation. Discussion aboyessir it was bad, yes. But, except for indoctrination theorists, not much speculation about what happened.

Well, there's been plenty of speculation about plot holes and inconsistencies relating to the Normandy and Mass Relays. I don't think that was what Walters was envisioning though.

 

[Dany]

That's like asking me to do something impossibly annoying like talk to a stupid kid--eh.

Here are some pre-renegade scar images.

Ok, he's mine now.

 

[hateradio]

Well, there's been plenty of speculation about plot holes and inconsistencies relating to the Normandy and Mass Relays. I don't think that was what Walters was envisioning though.

We speculate on the competency of the writers, more than their work's flaws.

Ok, he's mine now.

No. But he's mine! He's the one and only Ferds Shepard.

 

[Tabris]

Man I had such good (sad but good) feelings about Mass Effect 3. Especially the journey, those moments with Mordin, Legion, the dream sequences, the slow walk up to the light, the talk with Anderson, everything, always so heart-breaking tragic...I loved it. I also liked the ending how I picked it. It could have been much better but it's reading this thread, not the ending, that is making those good feelings fade away from all the cynism. You must all be bastard renegade Shepards.

 

[flyover]

Well, there's been plenty of speculation about plot holes and inconsistencies relating to the Normandy and Mass Relays. I don't think that was what Walters was envisioning though.

Yeah, exactly. (And I have no idea why autocorrect put "yessir" inside the word "about" in my pre-edited post...)

 

[Dany]

Man I had such good (sad but good) feelings about Mass Effect 3. Especially the journey, those moments with Mordin, Legion, the dream sequences, the slow walk up to the light, the talk with Anderson, everything, always so heart-breaking tragic...I loved it. I also liked the ending how I picked it. It could have been much better but it's reading this thread, not the ending, that is making those good feelings fade away from all the cynism. You must all be bastard renegade Shepards.

For me, when I searched for the other endings, was when it hit how damn lazy they wrote the final moments.

No. But he's mine! He's the one and only Ferds Shepard.

Renly Shepard says hi.

(well, not yet but soon)

 

[hateradio]

Renly? Hrm.

Man I had such good (sad but good) feelings about Mass Effect 3. Especially the journey, those moments with Mordin, Legion, the dream sequences, the slow walk up to the light, the talk with Anderson, everything, always so heart-breaking tragic...I loved it. I also liked the ending how I picked it. It could have been much better but it's reading this thread, not the ending, that is making those good feelings fade away from all the cynism.

I think ME3 is filled with heart-felt moments. It is not the thread that is full of cynics but the cynics that are full of threads. Think about that.

You must all be bastard renegade Shepards.

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[LiK]

Kingdom Hearts makes more sense than this ending.

LOL

 

[sp3000]

I just realized that Bioware tried to copy the Shivans from Freespace 2 but is too incompetent to get it right