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[Samara]

I just finished the citadel fight and Thane kicked ass(asin)! But oh my I did not expect to tear up like that. My man Thane. Dead.
Edit: I knew he died, but I never actually saw him dying. Pretty gut wrenching stuff
How his my avatar twin brotha Dennis4K? He's alright? Post if you're alright.

 

[BigTnaples]

They are going to be pre Mass Effect 3 games, or at least during that period, but no post trilogy games. So, knowing Bioware and their unwavering campaign to piss off people and gain mass market sales, the next game will probably be some kind of AssCreed/GTA knock off that takes place mostly on Earth or some sterile space station and stars Kai Leng or some douche like him.

Yeah, that sounds just like Bioware. :eyeroll:

ME3 is an amazing achievement that happens to have a cutscene in the last 7 minutes that most fans did not like.

It had more RPG elements, better graphics, tighter gameplay etc etc.

It was well recieved by critics (ending aside) and sold a fuck ton.

I am pretty sure when next gen comes around they will still be making terrific action RPG's.


And to the post below yours, calling ME3 a TPS based on what? That it controls well? The game has just as many RPG elements as any other.

 

[Lime]

 

[TalonsOfJustice]

Please stop saying "perfect renegade ending" it is not accurate and strangely grating.

Clarify its inaccuracy?

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I'd rather have a different cycle or post-ME3 than a prequel about the human-turian conflict or whatever.

 

[Omega]

And to the post below yours, calling ME3 a TPS based on what?

That it's a TPS with light RPG elements.

Maybe that's why?

It got less and less RPG as the series went on. How could you even think it was anything other than a TPS?

 

[Ciastek3214]

SPACE MAGIC

Fixed.

 

[BigTnaples]

Clarify its inaccuracy?

Sorry I had typed up a longer post but it came off as a rant so I just deleted it.


Aside from the color tone of the choices, what makes that ending a perfect renegade ending?

Especially when many people who were full paragon in all 3 games still got that very same ending.


The indoc theory video, and fans of the series took the red (as established by the franchise) to mean renegade.

But think about it this way.

Rather than hanging a sign over each option, how would you know which one is which after the catalyst asked you to choose? Most people, even those who had never played ME before, would associate the color red with the destroy option, the blue with control, and the middle option with synthesis.

I did not get any renegade points for choosing destroy either.


So I just fail to see how it is only a "Perfect Renegade Ending".

Hope that clears up my post.

 

[Zomba13]

APRIL FOOLS

 

[HadesGigas]

I'd rather have a different cycle or post-ME3 than a prequel about the human-turian conflict or whatever.

I bet that if they did the First Contact War game they'd still not bother to model turian females.

 

[DTKT]

Yeah, that sounds just like Bioware. :eyeroll:

ME3 is an amazing achievement that happens to have a cutscene in the last 7 minutes that most fans did not like.

It had more RPG elements, better graphics, tighter gameplay etc etc.

It was well recieved by critics (ending aside) and sold a fuck ton.

I am pretty sure when next gen comes around they will still be making terrific action RPG's.


And to the post below yours, calling ME3 a TPS based on what? That it controls well? The game has just as many RPG elements as any other.

This was just my own take on Bioware and what they want to do next. I think they want to move away from dialogue choices and branching stories. Mostly because it's really expensive and because Bioware wants to create a linear story. I feel like their next project is going to be Uncharted in space with some light skill trees.

But that's just me. :|

 

[Bowdz]

Also, Lance Henrickson, the voice for Admiral Hackett, was at some Swedish Sci-fi festival, and supposedly said that though he can't talk about the ending, Bioware is planning something big and amazing for PAX.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mas...iksen-Hackett039s-voice-actor-10869458-1.html
.

God damn.

That is pretty awesome and scary. They really should have pushed the dream sequence more. It could have been really effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4pqgBw_exw&feature=player_embedded

Wow. That was amazing. Thank you for the link.

 

[BigTnaples]

That it's a TPS with light RPG elements.

Maybe that's why?

It got less and less RPG as the series went on. How could you even think it was anything other than a TPS?

You seem to have cut out the fact that ME3 as more RPG elements than ME2 and even ME1 unless you consider the clunky shooting mechanics of ME1 as being more RPG like.

In ME I played the roll of Commander Shepard, I made his decisions, customized his armor and his ship and his weapons and his powers. I leveled up and found loot galore. I made tough choices in skill trees. I managed his party and their armor and weapons. I got to see the consequences of my choices (for the most part) play out over 3 games. I helped guide his epic story, choosing what missions to do or not to do, who to save and who to kill. Who to romance, and who to betray. Etc. Etc...

I would say that sounds like a Role Playing Game to me.


Now excuse me while I play Uncharted, its a really great Third Person Shooter, you should try it!

 

[hateradio]

I just finished the citadel fight and Thane kicked ass(asin)! But oh my I did not expect to tear up like that. My man Thane. Dead.
Edit: I knew he died, but I never actually saw him dying. Pretty gut wrenching stuff
How his my avatar twin brotha Dennis4K? He's alright? Post if you're alright.

THAAANE. :'(

 

[Confidence Man]

You seem to have cut out the fact that ME3 as more RPG elements than ME2 and even ME1 unless you consider the clunky shooting mechanics of ME1 as being more RPG like.

In ME I played the roll of Commander Shepard, I made his decisions, customized his armor and his ship and his weapons and his powers. I leveled up and found loot galore. I made tough choices in skill trees. I managed his party and their armor and weapons. I got to see the consequences of my choices (for the most part) play out over 3 games. I helped guide his epic story, choosing what missions to do or not to do, who to save and who to kill. Who to romance, and who to betray. Etc. Etc...

I would say that sounds like a Role Playing Game to me.


Now excuse me while I play Uncharted, its a really great Third Person Shooter, you should try it!

What are these RPG elements? ME3 has about as much as a Call of Duty game.

 

[BigTnaples]

What are these RPG elements? ME3 has about as much as a Call of Duty game.

Can't argue with ignorance.

 

[Bowdz]

THAAANE. :'(

STEEEEEEEVEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Spoiler

You sure?

 

[BigTnaples]

THAAANE. :'(

That was one of the more well done moments in the game, and really any game this gen imo.


The hospital scene was actually moving, a pretty good feat considering the graphical limitations.

 

[Myomoto]

God damn.

That is pretty awesome and scary. They really should have pushed the dream sequence more. It could have been really effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4pqgBw_exw&feature=player_embedded

Wow, the sheer amount of lost potential here is pretty astounding. Imagine just being generally haunted by all of the friends you had lost throughout the series. Would have been a lot more effective than the whispers taking the 'backseat' to chasing little children in a forest.

 

[Zomba13]

What are these RPG elements? ME3 has about as much as a Call of Duty game.

Lol.

 

[TalonsOfJustice]

Sorry I had typed up a longer post but it came off as a rant so I just deleted it.


Aside from the color tone of the choices, what makes that ending a perfect renegade ending?

Especially when many people who were full paragon in all 3 games still got that very same ending.


The indoc theory video, and fans of the series took the red (as established by the franchise) to mean renegade.

But think about it this way.

Rather than hanging a sign over each option, how would you know which one is which after the catalyst asked you to choose? Most people, even those who had never played ME before, would associate the color red with the destroy option, the blue with control, and the middle option with synthesis.

I did not get any renegade points for choosing destroy either.


So I just fail to see how it is only a "Perfect Renegade Ending".

Hope that clears up my post.

Very normal to have those thoughts considering the endings and their similarities. However, why is it a Renegade option to kill the Illusive Man before he kills Anderson? Shepard has killed plenty of the indoctrinated in his missions, what makes the Illusive Man an exception? He is indoctrinated, he is already dead.

Why is it that every option towards the end of the game that are seemingly the logical choices, are symbolically represented by the Renegade themes that occur throughout the story? If the entire sequence is the process of indoctrinating Shepard, then its obvious they are ploys set up by the Reapers to effectively turn Shepard to what he thinks is the best choice for all life. If the sequence isn't a process of indoctrination, it does not make sense what so ever to give in the demands of the Reapers and the Catalyst, the enemies of the entire series. Too many plot holes to be considered real endings for all options given, except the teaser of Shepard's gasp for air...leaving it up in the air as to what actually happened? Not the first time BioWare teased fans, remember how ME2 was revealed and we found Shepard dies? For a while, we didn't get any answers, leaving everyone wondering whats going to happen.

It's not surprising to dislike the ending of this game. Even though I'd love for the indoctrination theory to be true, it looks too good to be. I'm just stating what is known versus what that means for the actual ending. Either way you look at it, there is going to be some sort of continuation of the series. Hopefully it won't be shitty. The Stargazer and the kid, the teaser, even if they were little things to throw at fans just to have them clamor for another ME, you can do that without messing with the story of the franchise.

 

[Blue Ninja]

So, my thoughts after finishing the game again.

The writing during the final Illusive Man encounter is just... Not very good. Unless, of course, you're looking at it from the "TIM's finally gone over the deep end"-angle. Then it makes sense.

And any writer who puts in a floating magical space platform and then goes off about how you have a choice should just quit. The worst part is, I wouldn't have minded fucking vent god if he actually had some decent dialog. Instead he goes rambling about how Shepard being there changes everything and how shit shouldn't change. He was the one who pulled that floaty platform up there in the first place.

If he would've explained why, sure, why the fuck not, I could live with it. Instead it's like the creator of the Reapers has no clue what the fuck is happening around him. I honestly don't even understand people who say they like it, and I'm usually a pretty open-minded person. But this? It's bad, no matter how you spin it. I can understand BioWare wanting an ending that left things open a bit, that didn't answer everything or provide a happy ending with closure. That's an artistic choice. The way they presented it, however, is shit. The Catalyst does things but doesn't know why. If he was so fond of his "solution", he could've just let Shepard die. The themes people are saying were so "out of the left field" were present in a lot of ways during the game... Just way too subtle. And Javik, a character only a minority of people have, is the main supplier, too. No wonder people are pissed.

Here's my take. I don't want BioWare to change the ending completely. I can appreciate what they tried to do. But honestly, the discussions with TIM and, more importantly, the Catalyst need changing. The latter is a prime example of shitty writing, with the reasons I stated above. Just rewrite and re-record that shit. I honestly would've minded less if he told Shepard why he brought him there, instead of (with low EMS) asking him why he's there. Have him be somewhat coherent instead of rambling about chaos and order and synthesis and expecting the player and Shepard to understand it and make a choice. Unless BioWare, in their absolute brilliance, tried to make a play on the organic/synthetic duality by having the A.I. creator of the Reapers going senile.

Apologies if my sentences are a bit weirdly structured, but I'm tired and sick. :lol

 

[HK-47]

Not a big fan of 4chan in general. The internet also has the tendency to run things into the ground until they aren't funny anymore in record time.

This marauder meme is one of them.

No wonder you arent the people's champion anymore.

 

[def sim]

I love the implication that ME1 was this bastion of RPG in the trilogy. Do notches equate to an RPG for some of you folks? The dice roll and and level system was so skewed and clunky, it rendered the game into a clumsy shooter; only redeemed by the fact that you will always become overpowered.

 

[HK-47]

Normally that's true; the journey, not the destination, etc. It certainly is that way for me typically; it's so common for games to have bad endings. ME is different. I don't know exactly why, but this ending really is amazingly powerful in the way it can mar the whole game and series.

I'm not the only one who feels that way. This thread is full of people who can ignore poor endings but were really hit hard by this one.

If I had to guess why ME is special, I'd say it's two things. One, ME is one of the most immersive series thus forming the greatest attachment to the main character, unlike most other franchises. So to reduce him to such a weak puppet the last moment is especially hurtful. Two, even the shit endings of other games are tonally similar to the games to which they belong. The endings to the 2 main Deus Ex games are both anticlimactic and not great... but they fit. Same with Halo 3, Lost, even maybe BSG and Sopranos. In ME the ending is like it is from some other developer.

Its cause the ending destroys the universe. its pretty much one of the worst things you can do in a fantasy/scifi world that people love. Its beyond killing characters or dumb conclusions.

 

[HK-47]

I love the implication that ME1 was this bastion of RPG in the trilogy. Do notches equate to an RPG for some of you folks? The dice roll and and level system was so skewed and clunky, it rendered the game into a clumsy shooter; only redeemed by the fact that you will always become overpowered.

It had better dialogue options, it had exploration and discovery, it had the best atmosphere and soundtrack, it had the best paced and constructed main plot. None of this needed to be sacrificed in order to put in better tps controls or balance. Yet it all wasnt as good in the sequels.

 

[Rapstah]

I'm catiously optimistic for an ending that would have left Hacket's voice actor impressed... why would he know unless they recorded new dialogue with him?

 

[harriet the spy]

No wonder you arent the people's champion anymore.

This Marauder meme really is painfully unfunny.

edit: unrelated, but since people are mentioning him, I thought Lance's acting was great (but i am not a native speaker so my perception is perhaps flawed).

 

[BigTnaples]

It had better dialogue options, it had exploration and discovery, it had the best atmosphere and soundtrack, it had the best paced and constructed main plot. None of this needed to be sacrificed in order to put in better tps controls or balance. Yet it all wasnt as good in the sequels.

All that said aside from dialogue options and arguably exploration, none of those things have anything to do with meeting the "criteria" for being an RPG.

All 3 games are RPG's. Which one a fan prefers has no bearing on that.

 

[rdrr gnr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f44lgcIS1lE&feature=g-u-u&context=G26ac41aFUAAAAAAAJAA

Posted?

 

[Deleted member 81567]

 

[Lime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f44lgcIS1lE&feature=g-u-u&context=G26ac41aFUAAAAAAAJAA

Posted?

Nice.

 

[def sim]

It had better dialogue options, it had exploration and discovery, it had the best atmosphere and soundtrack, it had the best paced and constructed main plot. None of this needed to be sacrificed in order to put in better tps controls or balance. Yet it all wasnt as good in the sequels.

- I don't see how the dialog options were any better. I honestly don't, it's still the same short description into whatever. Did the game have better writing so the choices were more appealing? Maybe. The best conversation in the game is the one between Shepard and Sovereign and that was completely guided.

- Atmosphere and music, I'll concede to. How does this apply to the RPG argument though? Those points are wholly subjective and superficial aspects.

- Exploration? Conceptually amazing, yes I agree. It was executed poorly and is one of the biggest failures of the game, however.


You run under the assumption that improving the shooting mechanics wholly affects writing, theme, and music. Why? These are separate departments and it's silly to think there's some significant tug of war between their budgeting.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Nice.

Very nice. Creepy as fuck, too.

 

[cluxdeluxe]

s

 

[TheYanger]

- I don't see how the dialog options were any better. I honestly don't, it's still the same short description into whatever. Did the game have better writing so the choices were more appealing? Maybe. The best conversation in the game is the one between Shepard and Sovereign and that was completely guided.

- Atmosphere and music, I'll concede to. How does this apply to the RPG argument though? Those points are wholly subjective and superficial aspects.

- Exploration? Conceptually amazing, yes I agree. It was executed poorly and is one of the biggest failures of the game, however.


You run under the assumption that improving the shooting mechanics wholly affects writing, theme, and music. Why? These are separate departments and it's silly to think there's some significant tug of war between their budgeting.

You misread the quote completely. The assertion is that tighter shooting gameplay should NOT affect the quality of the writing, but the writing was worse anyway.

 

[def sim]

You misread the quote completely. The assertion is that tighter shooting gameplay should NOT affect the quality of the writing, but the writing was worse anyway.

Maybe so, but this didn't make the other two any less of an RPG. That's still the main point of the discussion.

What I said about ME1 still stands; I didn't misread the quote completely.

 

[HK-47]

- I don't see how the dialog options were any better. I honestly don't, it's still the same short description into whatever. Did the game have better writing so the choices were more appealing? Maybe. The best conversation in the game is the one between Shepard and Sovereign and that was completely guided.

- Atmosphere and music, I'll concede to. How does this apply to the RPG argument though? Those points are wholly subjective and superficial aspects.

- Exploration? Conceptually amazing, yes I agree. It was executed poorly and is one of the biggest failures of the game, however.


You run under the assumption that improving the shooting mechanics wholly affects writing, theme, and music. Why? These are separate departments and it's silly to think there's some significant tug of war between their budgeting.

I'm running under the assumption that they did a worse job on them, so they didnt put enough focus on them. Also there is a mark difference in dialogue options between 1 and 3. 3 completely removed the middle neutral option, rarely used the left side of the wheel for more than one continue the conversation option and even the paragon/renegade choices were severely cut down. Also Mass Effect as a series and as an RPG benefits a lot from mood and setting. Better atmosphere helps this. Also i'll take the shitty exploration and pretty skyboxes over the alternative shitty scanning a global or running away from inept reaper on the galaxy map. Bioware made the stupid choice of thinking the criticism of the mako sections was a problem witht he concept itself, rather than it not being a very polished or though out idea. I expected them to improve it like they improved combat and biotic/tech gameplay.

Also I noticed you didnt touch the point I made about plot and pacing. Also ME1 being a better rpg only has to do with things they decided to dumb down, remove or never improve upon. It doesnt have to do with ME being a bastion of RPGs.

 

[Omega]

I love the implication that ME1 was this bastion of RPG in the trilogy. Do notches equate to an RPG for some of you folks? The dice roll and and level system was so skewed and clunky, it rendered the game into a clumsy shooter; only redeemed by the fact that you will always become overpowered.

I've always said ME was a shooter. The first one was more of an RPG than the other 2, but they aren't RPGs at all.

This isn't something that's up for debate. Mass Effect was always a shooter with VERY light RPG elements.

 

[hateradio]

Who is the third person? I can't tell with these caveman drawings.

Generic human.

 

[HadesGigas]

Generic human.

So Kaiden then?

 

[BigTnaples]

I've always said ME was a shooter. The first one was more of an RPG than the other 2, but they aren't RPGs at all.

This isn't something that's up for debate. Mass Effect was always a shooter with VERY light RPG elements.

This incorrect. Very incorrect.

 

[HK-47]

I've always said ME was a shooter. The first one was more of an RPG than the other 2, but they aren't RPGs at all.

This isn't something that's up for debate. Mass Effect was always a shooter with VERY light RPG elements.

Very light rpg elements is Bioshock, not Mass Effect. I mean its not fucking Alpha Protocol or Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex (omg a shooter!), but having shooting elements doesnt make it suddenly not an rpg. It became less of one over time because they wanted the mythical dudebro audience and because streamlining doesnt always streamline the correct things. Like people whining about other people saying they wish ME still had loot, using the shitty ME loot and inventory as a counterpoint. Well fucking duh it was shitty so improve it. This is not an impossible task.

 

[Confidence Man]

It had better dialogue options, it had exploration and discovery, it had the best atmosphere and soundtrack, it had the best paced and constructed main plot. None of this needed to be sacrificed in order to put in better tps controls or balance. Yet it all wasnt as good in the sequels.

Not to mention the near total linearity in ME3. Level design is completely linear, and you have basically no choice as far as what order you do story missions.

 

[Myomoto]

Not to mention the near total linearity in ME3. Level design is completely linear, and you have basically no choice as far as what order you do story missions.

Linear != bad, and non-linear != good.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

- Exploration? Conceptually amazing, yes I agree. It was executed poorly and is one of the biggest failures of the game, however.

Exploration in ME1 is by far the best, even in main missions only, each environment was given time you were allowed to look around a bit, some places had no or little combat.
ME2 on wards you pretty much turn up as shit has already gone down, meaning one or two people to talk to and no substantial side tasks.

Linear != bad, and non-linear != good.

In an RPG YES. Really no way around it a Linear RPG is shit.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Linear != bad, and non-linear != good.

If you're a game trying to create some kind of scope such as that of a vast galaxy, then yes, linear is very bad.

 

[HK-47]

Not to mention the near total linearity in ME3. Level design is completely linear, and you have basically no choice as far as what order you do story missions.

And the complete loss of multiple hubs or quest areas. There is no Noveria or Omega in 3. Just the Citadel. And no real mission variety. Mission's like Thane or Samara's loyalty missions dont really exist and the one mission that is close (the geth server) actually could have used a threat in a traditional manner.

 

[EatChildren]

Not to mention the near total linearity in ME3. Level design is completely linear, and you have basically no choice as far as what order you do story missions.

It has several side missions, many tied into story quests, that can be completed in any order on the condition story checkpoints are not met.

It has a player levelling system tied to classes and powers, with minor power branches, in conjunction with a weapon levelling system.

It has a minimal research/upgrade system separate to the above.

It has interactive conversations with characters, and varied plotline outcome.

The idea that Mass Effect 3 has RPG element "about as much as a Call of Duty game" is the usual grumpy, cynical ranty bullshit I've come to expect from you.

 

[BigTnaples]

It has several side missions, many tied into story quests, that can be completed in any order on the condition story checkpoints are not met.

It has a player levelling system tied to classes and powers, with minor power branches, in conjunction with a weapon levelling system.

It has a minimal research/upgrade system separate to the above.

It has interactive conversations with characters, and varied plotline outcome.

The idea that Mass Effect 3 has RPG element "about as much as a Call of Duty game" is the usual grumpy, cynical ranty bullshit I've come to expect from you.

Thank you.

They are RPG games, period. If you like them or not is a different matter entirely.