What are you basing that on? I thought the only planet we saw being hit was Earth and that was only from the blast off Crucible not the supernova from the relay being destroyed.
That's how I remembered it at least.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
What are you basing that on? I thought the only planet we saw being hit was Earth and that was only from the blast off Crucible not the supernova from the relay being destroyed.
That's how I remembered it at least.
Yeah? Specifically that you did it and not the alliance generally. I never had that in my second playthrough at all. I was just on trial for the 'shit that you pulled' or something to that effect.
I can understand that. The beginning of the game is really poorly constructed and paced. They never quite explain why you are on trial and just make small references to it during the entire story.
I jest wish they fleshed out Earth more. In fact, I wished they let us visit the main worlds before the Reapers attacks.
The Elite
BOSS
We need to have a discussion about Return of the Jedi's ending.
The shockwave from the destruction of the Death Star should have destroyed Endor.
Why didn't we get a longer epilogue for all the characters involved? Just some crappy song and dancing teddy bears? Fuck that!
Yup, that's all I got. Maybe the details were dependent on whether or not you played the "Arrival" dlc? That's fucking shitty!
So what happened if you didn't play the Shadow Broker DLC? Was Liara just magically the Shadow Broker for everyone else? Was it explained?
The shockwave from the destruction of the Death Star should have destroyed Endor.
Why didn't we get a longer epilogue for all the characters involved? Just some crappy song and dancing teddy bears? Fuck that!
I'm not serious
Yup, that's all I got. Maybe the details were dependent on whether or not you played the "Arrival" dlc? That's fucking shitty!
So what happened if you didn't play the Shadow Broker DLC? Was Liara just magically the Shadow Broker for everyone else? Was it explained?
Is anyone else concerned about the upcoming PAX panel? I have a bad feeling it's going to get bombed by the angriest of angry Mass Effect fans. The fans have legit concerns, and there are respectful ways to address Bioware about them. I'm just worried that will all go out the window once a room full of fans are given some concrete targets for their rage and everyone goes into full on Comic Book Store Guy mode.
Which in itself is stupid as hell.
Can you make sense of why Joker was running away to begin with? Depending on your EMS, none of the colored explosions actually affects ships (we will let slide the issue of why EMS affects the ability of the Red Explosion to incinerate Earth, destroy Big Ben, or do nothing at all), they just hit the Reapers and they fall down/fly away. But... the explosion somehow manages to wreck the Normandy despite how none of the explosion had an affect on humans.
Okay, well, maybe it just affects ships. That's... not good odds for the thousands of damaged fleet ships in the Sol System who are probably FUBAR because of that. Logically speaking, not only did you strand the races in Sol for possibly decades, you probably heavily damaged each and every one of their ships. Unless the explosions only affected the Normandy, which makes absolutely no sense.
But let us pick apart the Catalyst for a second. The basic goal of the reapers is to ensure that organics don't build synthetics to destroy their creators. On the other hand, Sovereign explicitly says that the Reapers actually guide organics along the paths that they choose. So basically, the Reapers guide organics into making synthetics that will destroy them, so they can come in and... harvest organics before they can be destroyed by synthetics. Okay, well, maybe that is just mere writing inconsistency. But ME3 provides proof enough that the Reapers are inclined to "guide" certain races, especially due to their manipulation of the Rachni (where it is all but confirmed that Reapers were responsible for the first Rachni war) and their "guidance" of the Yahg.
So either Sovereign (and kinda backed up by Harbinger in ME2) is full of shit, or the Catalyst isn't telling you something. Too bad Shepard loses all ability to actually investigate what the Catalyst is doing, even though the ME series seems to pride itself on having Shepard investigate details at any and all moments, even if at fucking gunpoint.
Seriously, maybe there is just something I'm missing, but if you could make sense of those, I would be thrilled.
No, but the fans are
By the way I would have been goddamn happy if I got some dancing ewoks for ME3's ending
It's the same color sent out by the crucible, it's supposed to represent the energy being shot throughout the galaxy. It's the space magic and silly color coded nonsense that we have been making fun of in this very thread.
They color coded it so it's easier for you to understand.
The Elite
BOSS
Sorry I don't have time to answer all of your questions but I'll try to be quick. The thing about Shepard not investigating anything further after being posed with the decision seemed obvious to me. He's badly wounded and time had ultimately run out for Earth. He didn't have any other option besides the ones given to him at that point and he had to make the best with what he got.
For some, I get that is frustrating. Shepard busted his ass for years to give the galaxy a fighting chance ultimately to be given three lousy choices. I guess the difference for me is that it doesn't bother me that the choices were equally lousy. Like I've said, considering the odds, it's the best he could have hoped for.
The stuff from the "Arrival" DLC (and codex apparently) is important and changes the outcome of the game greatly. I'm actually going to check to see if it's in my codex since I didn't play that DLC.
Damn, I need to get some work done now.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Look at the center of the explosions.
Photolysis
Banned
Yeah if you don't play Arrival then you didn't blow up the relay... so the only reason why you would be 'on trial' is because of your work with Cerberus?
But Chakwas states that nothing happened to her because she was never formally part of Cerberus. But neither was Shepard. So logically there's no real reason for Shepard to be locked up if you didn't play Arrival.
Writing consistency, how does it work?
Walters wrote it, so...
While the Alliance was butthurt over you siding with Cerberus, none of your actions while working with Cerberus has been anything but noble. Otherwise, there'd have been a warrant for you during ME2. Even the Council reinstated your Spectre status. The only reason Shepard could be put off-duty is likely because of something that is resembling war crimes. And blowing up a colony via mass relay destruction is the only thing that could have warranted such penalty from the Alliance.
The Elite
BOSS
Wasn't Shepard commanding what was effectively a ship flying Cerberus colours? I'd say he was involved more than Chakwas. Could be that he was marshaled for his actions but his crew was released because they were working under his orders.
Fuck, if this DLC was so important it should have been in the fucking game!
So my EMS level somehow changes the very nature of the space magic? Thanks now you have made it even worse.
They inject them with drugs that are resistant to space magic.
We're still forgetting that this is the same Shepard who tried to chat it up with Harbinger while there was an asteroid about to crash into a Mass Relay. While Shepard was still on said asteroid. I'm sorry, but it's just a flimsy excuse to say that Shepard is just going to accept "Blow up mass relays? Inevitable organic destruction by synthetics? (even though I might have solved the geth/quarian war) kay *presses colored button ending*" with absolutely no kind of chance to call out the Catalyst on his bullshit.
That doesn't make sense. Because if that's the case, you wouldn't encounter the two angry Batarians on the Citadel. That'd be 2 sub-missions unavailable to you just because you didn't play "The Arrival"?
Sojgat said:
Did you just realize this? It's true. If your EMS is high enough, if you choose Destroy, Earth wouldn't be scorched to death and Shepard lives. If your EMS is low, however, goodbye Earth! That's how magic works!
I see, so with enough resources the alliance synthesizes an inoculation for space magic. I can work with this, this can make sense.
The Elite
BOSS
I think that might be the sticking point between both of us. I think if I was in that same position, with Earth about to be destroyed and not sure if I was going to be able to stay conscious for the next few minutes, I would have given in and made the choice I made.
I guess that is why it isn't bother me as much. I got the impression that Shepard wasn't going to be on his feet much longer. If he tried to outsmart the Catalyst and go for a fourth option, he might have screwed Earth completely.
Of course, the knowledge that the Mass Relays would wipe out half a solar system would have been nice to have.
The Sol system was not destroyed and its relay was hit with the same energy. If you had high enough EMS, you get to see Shepard live in some part of the system too.
I am actually at a loss here. People assumed everybody died this way? What kind of comprehension skil-
nevermind
Yes, it's nonsensical.
My primary point of contention is that the choice is there at all. Deus ex machina god-child out of nowhere with three choices that don't take into consideration the rest of your game (except magically your EMS somehow even though it logically shouldn't affect the outcome of your decision)
Is this shown by the screen color looking like infrared. If so yes I noticed it but I didn't release that it was meant to represent earth being scorched. So on top if this Bioware couldn't even be bothered make their cutscene clear?
It actually shows a POV of London being scorched along with the Reapers then the entire Earth. LOLZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvypGrIG4B4
The Elite
BOSS
And from my point of view, the choice is what you fought for. But I think I'm understanding why people don't like this ending (besides the Mass Relay) bit.
You would have rather had no choice and the outcome be based on the strength of Shepard's forces?
I get that but the only realistic outcome would have been the destruction of all (intelligent) life in the universe. The Reapers were just too advanced IMO. Taking out one was a huge moment for celebration. There was no way they were taking out all of them without some sort of intervention.
Sure I'm not arguing that point but it states in one of the war assets that an alliance fleet was weakened as they sent marines to extract Dr Kenson because Shephard didn't do it.
So what was he on trial for under those circumstances if not for working with Cerberus?
Shepard is space jesus, she survived the destruction of the crucible and possibly rode parts of it down through the atmosphere to the surface. This doesn't mean everyone else managed to survive in the rest of the universe =p
Earth being scorched is obvious if you get it in your cut scene. Instead of the scene on the ground you get a shot of fire going along Earth's surface.
Shepard being wounded was something that stuck out to me close to when I first got the endings. But then Shepard ends up actually running full vault like everything is okay in the Synthesis ending (or completely shrugs off his/her limping in the Destroy ending), so either Bioware doesn't know how actually being wounded that badly works, or Shepard was not all that wounded to begin with.
But the biggest problem here is that things that you personally made a reality that directly contradict the Catalyst's point (ending the Quarian/Geth war is a big counterargument to the Catalyst proclaiming that organic destruction by organics is absolute in any case, scenario, or cycle) are things that Shepard doesn't even mention in passing. I would think that a reasonable Shepard, even being tremendously wounded, would have easily said "No, that's not right" instead of just giving in like that (and to be honest, the entire ME series characterizes Shepard as a being who just doesn't give in to the easy solutions, regardless of Renegade or Paragon actions. And the fact that Shepard gives in at the most crucial moment for all of galactic civilization is just a bigger slap in the face).
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I have to disagree a bit with those that say all the decisions you made along the way were invalidated by the ending. Sure, some of the choices become unimportant depending on what happens at the end, but not necessarily all of them. We tend to make decisions based on what we think is best at the time and later on those choices are sometimes altered based on other events.
On my play through I chose to cure the Genophage and let the Krogen begin to rebuild their civilization and race. At the end of the game I didn't feel that that decision was invalidated by the ending, although I would have liked to have gotten a glimpse of what happened to the other races and planets. The galaxy is fundamentally altered to be sure but we don't get to see the effects of our actions and choices, which is where I really feel let down.
When I was thinking about what happened after I finished the game, I kept thinking that the Krogen were probably the one race best suited to survive the aftermath of the Reaper invasion. They're tough, they've lived without a lot of resources in the past and they're about as resilient as any race in terms of rolling with what comes their way. Of course, if Bioware stays true to their word and we don't get anything after ME3, we're simply left to speculate on the outcome. But a couple of minute epilogue giving us a little information on what followed would have gone a long way to fixing some of these issues.
On my play through I chose to cure the Genophage and let the Krogen begin to rebuild their civilization and race. At the end of the game I didn't feel that that decision was invalidated by the ending, although I would have liked to have gotten a glimpse of what happened to the other races and planets. The galaxy is fundamentally altered to be sure but we don't get to see the effects of our actions and choices, which is where I really feel let down.
When I was thinking about what happened after I finished the game, I kept thinking that the Krogen were probably the one race best suited to survive the aftermath of the Reaper invasion. They're tough, they've lived without a lot of resources in the past and they're about as resilient as any race in terms of rolling with what comes their way. Of course, if Bioware stays true to their word and we don't get anything after ME3, we're simply left to speculate on the outcome. But a couple of minute epilogue giving us a little information on what followed would have gone a long way to fixing some of these issues.
Any choice? I could choose to just stand and do a dance and it would be a more believable reaction from Shepard than acceptance.
This is a series based around cause and effect, action and reaction. Not seeing the effect of your cumulative ~90 hours of gameplay is a total copout.
I don't own the Arrival either, I've only read about it because I didn't want to be nickel and dimed for what seemed to be an important, yet poor, dlc. Irrelevant, this information is not a secret, and just the ending videos show the beams you're sending don't seem entirely harmless, and the relays are causing some huge explosions. Either way, cutting the galaxy off from each other is hardly 'acceptable' because it's dooming TONS of people to death no matter what, I guarantee that. Anyone that isn't on their home planet is PROBABLY fucked for supplies, and a lot of even the homeworlds are devastated beyond sustainability most likely by the reaper attacks. Trade is completely stunted, etc. You just sent all civilization back to the middle ages, metaphorically.
It didn't end with a decision, the endings were all basically the same. It ended with a forced cutscene where you pick a color, from a character that you have no reason to even remotely care what is telling you to pick from. Why does the catalyst want to help you beat the reapers suddenly? What did the crucible even do with any of this? How did any past civilization know about the catalyst at all to leave behind 'plans' indicating it would do something, when the catalyst is a freaking VI that when activated beats the reapers for you? How does the mission of the reapers even make sense enough for Shepard to buy this story in the first place? Shepard would refuse the VI and go down fighting before taking any of the 'choices' given to you. That's the shepard we've seen for 90 hours before the last 5 minutes take hold.
Probably not, but it's hyperbolic.
They're beyond our understanding, yet their source of logic, their entire paradigm, can be summed up with a perfect rendition of the Yo dawg meme?
It's nice that you think that, but in literary terms that's not true, so it has no relevance to everyone else. Everything PRIOR to the star child was fine. You can suspend disbelief when it comes to a good story. When the story falls apart (star child) all of the problems seep in. Even if there weren't inconsistencies with the universe itself in the ending, it was unfitting and abrupt and awful, but the fact that it was those things is another reason the other mess comes up, such as the citadel moving etc.
The Krogan, now cured of their genophage and helping in your battle at earth, are now stranded in the Sol system. Their warlike nature leads them to eventually warring with the other races for land in the system. Cured of the genophage the Krogan begin reproducing at a phenomenal rate, as they had in the past. Old hatreds rekindle anew in the hotbed of activity that is our system, and the Krogan need to expand for their rapidly growing population. First they eliminate the Turians, then the Salarians, and finally the Asari, Quarians, Geth, and Humans. The Krogans have nobly lived on thanks to your curing of their genophage, and are now the only advanced civilization in the Solar System. WOO!
Conversely, maybe they didn't take any females with them due to their rarity. Now all of the Krogan warriors in the Sol System (which is likely a vast majority of the entire Krogan population in the galaxy, given the circuimstances) are now doomed to extinction. Pretty cool bro.
The Elite
BOSS
I'll concede one point, more of a dialogue would have been good with the catalyst. I think the decisions should have remained but at least Shepard (and the player) would have had a better understanding of why it had to be done this way. But it would need to be brief. I think there is a certain urgency to the situation that needed to be maintained.
Yeah, I saw the synthesis ending on youtube. That running big was stupid and completely goes against the moment.
Edit: Bah, TheYanger. So much more to reply to. I'll try to get to it.
I'll just answer your first one for now. Shepard's acceptance is based on the factors that make up that moment. He's got no other choice left to him. I know that a lot of you really want one but I think pulling one out of thin air would have seemed silly.
Photolysis
Banned
It's pretty inconsistent. Joker was charged. Ken & Gabby were charged and being held unless you get them pardoned with your Spectre authority (it's implied they were arrested by the council, yet you also seem to be able to use this to interfere with Systems Alliance stuff where your Spectre status doesn't matter like that one marine deployment). Chakwas wasn't charged.
But forgetting this for a second. the only problem is that the game doesn't offer an adequate explanation if you didn't do Arrival. There are plenty of options to choose from. Shepard seemingly going AWOL, a hearing to clarify Shepard's involvement (or lack thereor) with Cerberus. Change a few pieces of dialogue so it fits better, and the problem is solved.
What missions were these? I don't have Arrival myself.
I only got one mission involving the Batarian guy from Bring Down the Sky (who should have been dead but I might not have set the flag properly in Gibbed's ME2 editor, but it was fun shooting him), and some random scanning quest where you get some religious artifact or whatever.
The problem with the Krogan is more the millions of Krogan left on Tuchanka, without Wrex's leadership or without Wreave's mediocre leadership, and without the ability to trade and obtain resources from other worlds for quite a long time. All the Krogan trapped on one, extremely war-torn planet without resources is not quite a good resolution.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
By the way, how could Shepard (if it was Shepard) gasp for air if the citadel was blown to smithereens?
The Elite
BOSS
So glad I didn't get this crap.
Didn't the female stay behind? She seemed like quite the leader.
I think separating all of these civilizations (without destroying them) is a fantastic setup for a new trilogy. Finding a new way to bridge the gap and bring back FTL travel. Then seeing how civilizations were impacted after 100-200 years of being separated.
But the reason for the Reapers existence is kind absolutely awful. We will kill all the advanced races because we want to "save them" from an inevitable war with Synthetics life forms. How dumb is that? They don't kill the Synthetics. They don't kill everyone, they just kill the advanced ones.
Then, there is the fact that the entire Universe is united against the Reapers. After all, they are just big ships. With enough friendly big ships, they should have been able to defeat the Reaper fleet.
FTL travel didn't go anywhere. They just can't zoom from one system to another in an instant any more.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Agreed. That's essentially what I said in a previous post. I'd play a new Mass Effect game set in the same galaxy that has been completely altered from the one we know. Let's see how the Reaper invasion changed everything over time. Set it say 25-50 years in the future when we've been able to develop a self contained Mass Effect Drive based on Reaper tech or something. The new commander is charged with heading out and reuniting the galaxy and building a new crew to help do it. Unfortunately Bioware has apparently said that future ME games would be set prior to the ending of this game.
And yes, the female is still back on the Krogan homeworld and should be a great leader for the people. Plus, its not like these races still don't have space travel. They can venture out into nearby star systems and travel off world, they just can't make the vast leaps across the galaxy that they could when the Relays were still around.
Agreed, the ending is full of truly lazy/rushed things but this was the one that annoyed me the most at the time, since ME2 Bioware had been teaching us that synthetic life can be reasoned with (even if you chose not to they still showed you it was an option) and is no more of a threat to biological life than biological life is to itself, then god came along and said "oh no that was all bullshit, they'll get you in the end". It felt like what probably happened is at some point a choice was made to just disregard much of what had come before in the series try and patchwork in a narrative that made these three choices make sense.
Reapers had already been devolved from godlike Cthulhu-esque beings by the beginning of ME3 when hundreds of them rain down from the heavens and are immediately subjected to the mook factor. Sure it takes a ridiculous amount of bullshit to take down the ones on Ronnach and Tchuanka but they're 'plot' reapers. By the time space battles are ripping them a new one they're hardly a godlike figure anymore.
"Choice" is a term. When you say "have it be based on the strength of Shepard's forces", isn't that, in itself, a choice? You choose how to build Shepard and his forces, you chose throughout the game. If you have the Asari, then this happens; if you got the Salarians, than this. If you have the Turians and the Krogan, but don't have the Geth, then this... there's so much room for taking into account the consequences of your actions beyond a throwaway line in your EMS and a couple of numbers. That's a far better method of choice, of taking into account your choices, your decisions, through the entirety of the game. To have a space wizard suddenly pop up and ask me which of my desired endings I would like was a colossal disappointment.
I cant read. My bad.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Right. Which is essentially what I said in my post.
That doesn't really answer it though. Just saying that the Crucible changes the makeup of the explosion without anything to back that up isn't really anything more than speculation on your part. The relays being destroyed and making planets incapable of sustaining life is at least based on evidence from the games.
What incapable of sustaining life means is open to interpretation as well though I suppose.
CharmingCharlie
Member
That is cute, you think it will only take them 100 - 200 years. The in game notes state that the end sequence (you know buzz and the brat) happens 10,000 years later. So the end sequence set 10,000 years later implies they still do not have space travel.
Also with regards to the space magic not killing everything. Yes that is the case at first when the Citadel releases it's energy. However when the energy hits the SOL relay you see the relay shoot it's load off to the next relay then you see the relay EXPLODE releasing a NEW blast wave that for all intents and purposes has been SHOWN in the Arrival DLC to destory the solar system the relay is in.
Now as for why the Normandy crew survive this huge Galatic Holocaust which is apparently a "win" for some people. That is easily explained, the space magic shock wave hits the Normandy mid-way between two Mass Effect relays (because for some reason the lore set in two games where the relay's provide instantaneous travel no longer applies). So when the blast wave hits the Normandy it isn't unreasonable to "speculate" that the Normandy is knocked out of the Mass Effect stream and ends up in a solar system with no Mass Effect Relay and thus there is a convenient planet for them to live on.
However lets face it the ending doesn't make a blind bit of bloody sense no matter how you try to explain it.
With any luck, Casey Hudson will be like Hideaki Anno of Evangelion. First he fumes over fans reaction. Then he created the mind and skull-fucking version of the ending. THEN he remakes the entire series a few years later.
Maybe. Nothing concrete but Bioware has a panel of friday. Patrick Weekes, one of the writer on ME3, is there answering questions.
It seems like a good place to announce something.
The Elite
BOSS
Had no idea. That would be a little disappointing if the next game was potentially set 10,000 years later.