No one knows for sure. Bioware has said they will announce something this month and PAX would be the best place to get more exposure.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
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No one knows for sure. Bioware has said they will announce something this month and PAX would be the best place to get more exposure.
Joe Molotov
Member
Shepard rode a piece of shrapnel down from outer space like a surfboard as it hurled toward Earth and then landed in a pile hay to cushion her fall.
Fimbulvetr
Member
What's weirder is that, even assuming the catalyst is 100% absolutely right, the Catalyst's new "solutions" aren't at all fixes to its suggested problem.
Destruction means there's nothing to stop Synthetics from eventually wiping out all life when Organics eventually get back on track to making more. Seriously, why even give Shepard this choice; just don't tell him about the stupid tube.
Control means you have someone at the helm that isn't willing to sacrifice advanced organics, which the Catalyst claimed was the right way to stop the synthetic apocalypse.
Synthesis doesn't really do anything. Cyborgs can still make pure Synthetics that kill everyone, and AI-cyborgs can still just decide to kill people anyway.
Also, Shepard is only the first person to reach the Catalyst because the Catalyst activated the freaking elevator allowing him to get up there.
Or be lynched
I didn't see that version. Still trying to work out what the infrared scene meant. Did anyone else get it? Was it just a glitch?
I find it weird that the writers decided that synthesis was the best solution to organics vs synthetics problem eventhough we've seen beforehand with Legion/The Geth vs. Quarians and from EDI's POV that the best solution is to give each synthetics individuality.
Give synthetics individuality.
EDI was right in that the thing that prevented her from raging against the entire organics and siding with her kind is because she formed attachment to the people she considers friends. Without that attachment, she's more likely to succumb to the collective mass mentality of the Geth and judging from how none of the Reapers have any objections to how things are run, I'd say they run on a similar collective thought process.
So I'm wondering if the ones who wrote the Geth vs Quarians dialogues as well as EDI's proposed solution is a different writer from the ending writer (obvs Walters and Hudson). Because if it's the same, I don't understand how making everyone homogenous
(instead of different through individuality) is better.
Infrared scene?
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think that's a good idea too, but it should have been planned better. The relays being destroyed or deactivated is something anyone should be prepared for when the crucible comes into play, so maybe the final galactic fleet being recognized as a true suicide mission in order to deactivate the relays would have made more sense. Final goodbyes of all the soldiers being seperated from their civilizations could have been quite effective. Then... deactivate the relays, destroy the reapers (with space magic I guess... ugh) and enter a galactic dark age works. Sol would be screwed, but at least they'd be ready for it. A renegade ending could be blowing up the relays as a true cleansing or maybe deactivating the reapers for "study" to advance the human race.
TheBioLover
Member
The Indoctrination Theory seems the most plausible answer to all these inconsistencies and plot holes. (Anderson appearing out of nowhere, IM having mind control powers, Joker running away)
SEGAvangelist
Member
It'll be like when Gandalf was fighting the Balrog!!! AWESOME IDEA!!!
The Elite
BOSS
The "space magic" thing is sort of funny. I get why people would call it that but at the same time it's realistic that some of the abilities of the Reapers may look like magic.
I do agree that foreknowledge of the outcome of defeating the Reapers would have been quite effective. I think that could be played up in a new trilogy set 50 years later.
SEGAvangelist
Member
In my first playthrough my EMS was pretty high but not enough to get the shepard lives part of the destroy ending. The whole scene after you shoot the destroy pillar, showed all the soldiers and reapers fighting on earth in infrared. Looked a little bit like predator vision. Really weird, still can't work out if the cutscene just messed up or what, seemed to be a purposeful thing though.
There's actually a difference between plausible sci-fi magic and non-plausible sci-fi magic that a lot of people don't get and I don't really understand why. Almost all of the magic is based of the unobtanium of the mass effect universe, Eezo (Element Zero), and the corresponding mass effect it generates. Even indoctrination is supposedly based off minute electrical shifts in the brainwaves of sentient beings. But a fucking giant wave of energy that somehow merges synthetics and organics (and what does that even mean? Does everybody spontaneously develop a HUD and circuitry? Do toasters suddenly grow flesh?) is completely fucking nonsensical even without the bounds of a world with eezo in it.
The Elite
BOSS
I got the same thing. I think it was a glitch after seeing some video of other endings.
I think that's a reasonable gripe with that ending. I just wiped out the Reapers with a magic wave of energy. Considering you are using Reaper tech, it seemed plausible in my case.
The synthesis ending would be much harder to explain away so simply.
SEGAvangelist
Member
As long as the space magic is a wave that deactivates all reaper tech and reaper life as we know it, then it's just a signal that deactivates the reapers as a whole. That would be ok. This could explain the death of shepard and destruction of the normandy as well.
It all reeks of trying to add drama and gravitas to the easy out that is the Crucible.
They force sacrifice to make it look more profound than it is. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Mordin's makes sense. Tali's is great too.
If you make peace between the Geth and Quarians however, Legion has to die for some reason. It's intuitive as a dramatic device, but it's not intuitive within the fiction. Legion doesn't seek redemption, is overcome by grief, or catches a bullet for Shepard. It's nowhere near as well 'explained' as either Mordin's or Tali's.
Same with the crucible. They wrote the perfect Reaper off button. The solution is too good, too easy. Control them like TIM wanted or blow them up. So why wouldn't you just fucking destroy the Reapers? Because the Geth and EDI have to die too if you chose that. Because the Reaper overlord can't turn them off. Because the new solution to the 'problem' is to blow all Synthetics up once and hope for the organics to 'get it'. Because the created will always rebel against their creators. Because then they'll never rise up again, you see! Because the Geth didn't spook the galactic community enough. Because... Uh.
The 'new solution' bullshit still ticks me off. So ham-fisted.
This post took me longer than expected, so - there. That, right there.
How is it realistic though? IT seems like if they (they including the star child since his race created the reapers or...whatever) can just push a button and have 'SPACE DUST' transform our dna, they could just push that button every 50,000 years and transform us into sludge or something. The notion of the reapers themselves doesn't even settle with this space magic bullshit. If they had that kind of power, why do they sit there not using it, just so that someone can come prove themselves worthy of using it? shit makes no sense.
Can you really resolve in your head that the space kid and his choices are representative of the same side as this?
http://youtu.be/dXSID0DOLBQ
I think the Normandy just has it's engines blown off in all three endings regardless of the colour of the space magic but the Reapers are obviously affected quite differently depending on flavour so I'm guessing it's not the same thing.
You're not actually using reaper tech. You're using Casper magic. Casper made the Reapers.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Does the Normany get its engines blown off or is it some kind of "she can't take anymore captain!" engine overload because he's trying to outrun the burst?
The Elite
BOSS
Can't listen to that youtube at work. Will check out later.
You're absolutely right though, if the Reapers can transform humans into cyborgs (or whatever) in the synthesis ending by pushing a button then it does stand to reason that they should have always been able to do that themselves, or simply destroy.
I hate to say it, and I know this is going to be troubling (understandably so) for most of you who played it, but the whole thing came off as a giant test. Shepard finally passed that test.
The Reapers hold back their full strength, just enough, to see if the civilizations of this generation can work together to make it to the Catalyst (star child, lol).
Isn't the Citadel based on Reaper tech? Casper is tied into all that but the Citadel is still a Reaper technology. That combined with the crucible sends out the wave.
Bioware had to visualize the whole transformation and I think that's the best they could do.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yeah, it's a bad cutscene. It's one of the many problems with the ending. If the space magic wave isn't dangerous, then why does it tear up the Normandy. Now if the wave just deactivates the reaper parts of the Normandy and didn't show the Normandy being torn up, it would make more sense. Still doesn't explain the crew teleporting and Joker being a coward too. Ending is bad.
The Elite
BOSS
The space magic isn't tearing up the Normandy, it's the fact that the Mass Relays are being destroyed. At least that's the impression I got.
SEGAvangelist
Member
It looks like the space magic wave is definitely destroying the ship.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Which would lead you to believe the relay explosions torch EVERYTHING. Another problem. See? That's why the explosions should have just been removed. Space magic wave is much better in this case.
Actually, the most plausible answer seems like the correct one, as I saw it put on the Bioware forums: the Individuation Theory
The only theory that I will 100% get behind. Shit writer thinks he's better than he is and wants to put his big boy pants on. Writes shit. Solves any and all plotholes.
The Elite
BOSS
Well, no. It doesn't suggest that the relay explosion would torch everything. Maybe just something that's in proximity or in mid transit from one Relay to another.
Actually, the most plausible answer seems like the correct one, as I saw it put on the Bioware forums: the Individuation Theory
The only theory that I will 100% get behind. Shit writer thinks he's better than he is and wants to put his big boy pants on. Writes shit. Solves any and all plotholes.
But the rest of ME3, which most of us agree is great, is also written by him.
Yeah, he had to go helluva fast to pick her up from lying dead next to me on the floor, find out what I was doing before I myself even knew, and THEN fly through!
(Yes, I realize you were probably being snarky but...SIGH).
SEGAvangelist
Member
Doesn't explain the teleporting of crew members though.
Pretty sure most of the game was written by a pool of writers.
SEGAvangelist
Member
But based on the Arrival content, we're led to believe this blast would wipe out solar systems. This is why deactivation of the relays using space magic would be much better than space magic + big boom.
IIRC, Patrick Weekes wrote Tuchanka and Rannoch.
Well most of ME3, which is great, is also a collaboration effort with the whole writing team, not just him. Apparently he and hudson were the only ones who saw the ending.
He should have been the main writer, these 2 parts were some of the best of ME3.
The Elite
BOSS
If you're going to blame the ending on one guy then turn around and say the rest of the game was great you should at least give him credit with that too.
I'm sure the whole game was written by a pool of writers and I'm sure they were all involved in the end too. But one guy had sign off rights on the good and the bad, he should get credit for both.
But Arrival didn't happen for me. So I'm just going to assume that the chunks of civilization were not destroyed.
I will check the codex tonight to see if that info is there.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yeah I'm pretty sure Mac was more responsible for main plot of the game (beginning and end). He's not good. He also wrecked a lot of ME2 I feel. The individual characters saved that game though.
This. From everything we've heard and seen, Hudson and Walters basically took a path of extreme hubris SPECIFICALLY in regards to the ending. Even if he wrote literally every line of dialogue in the game it wouldn't excuse the ending just because he wrote the rest: it is his ridiculous desire to pen some grand pseudo-intellectual ending that causes it to be shit. He can easily write everything PRIOR to the ending and then tell himself "No, I'm not going to write a sensible concise ending, I'm going to wrack my brain because LOTS OF SPECULATION" and he then falls flat on his face.
I'm not sure what you're even getting at here. It's irrelevant whether it was a pool for the rest or not. He's the lead writer. He dictates the PLOT. It is highly possible for him to get the rest of it right, you're correct. Does that mean the ending wasn't bad?
I think that's just a glitch. I don't remember something like that happening in my game.
Uhm no. Haven't you been reading the discussion? Other writers like Patrick Weekes are responsible for the other part of the games. Walters and Hudson are the only ones responsible for the ending. Other writers were locked out.
Cool. But how does he know what the wave does before it hits? When we see the chain reaction happen from above the galaxy, the waves travels incredibly fast. How could he ever know when to or if to bail before the wave hits?
Guess I forgot to include the rider: "This doesn't fix the myriad of other problems with the ending."
I thought the presentation excelllent. The end of the game begins with your getting hit by Harbinger's beam. You get up, struggling to stand, and slow mo shooting your way to your final steps in what seems to be a fruitless endeavor. I honestly felt like the game was going to just end and this cycle was over. However, I managed to barely make it.
Then, the scene with Anderson and Illusive Man. Awesome to see the Citidel folded up like that from the inside. For the first time since the first game I wasn't able to use my Paragon (or Renegade) dialog choices. I was just a few pixels away from having enough, it seemed. I tried so hard but it wasn't enough. Then the game throws a curve and Illusive shoots Anderson because I hesitate to go renegade! When the second prompt comes up I shout "No!" and shoot that mad man. It felt right. It felt necessary.. but why did I hesitate to save Anderson?
Finally, the Catalyst reveals itself. It explains the existence of the Reapers and the cycles of death. It was hinted at previously so learning that wasn't much of a surprise. More of just a confirmation. Then, it gives me the choice of how to change the galaxy forever and I seriously was unsure what to do. This was a decision like non any being had ever been given. Change all life in the galaxy. It just felt so incalculably huge. Here is this game I've been playing for weeks now (played through the first two before this) and along the way I was making all these big choices and now I'm being presented with the ultimate choice that will forever change life everywhere. I literally had the fate of the galaxy on my mind at that moment. The slow-motion kicks in and there's this steady beat of percussion egging you on to make that choice. It was just so amazing.
I decided to go with Synthesis. All three games had done a good job of making the threat and prejudice against AI the biggest issue around so I felt like Synthesis was the only answer. Still, I also was concerned as I was walking towards that light that I was about to change all the people I had grown to care about. For the record I had a EMS score 7020 before going on the final mission.
I won't spend too much time trying to pick all of them but what I mean is things like being upset that Shepard had to die. Sorry, but that's presumptuious to assume he would live. I'm glad my Shepard died. She sacrificed herself and it made for an incredible ending.
Also, this whole complaint about how did my squad-mates get onto the Normandy? That just seems presumptuous of people saying that there wasn't time. I was on the Citidel for a while with just me and Anderson (and Illusive Man). We've seen the whole series that it takes only minutes for shuttles to reach or launch from the surface. There was plenty of time for Joker to rescue my remaining teammates after our assault to get into the Citidel (apparently) failed. No doubt he picked them up during my final confrontation and decisions. Then when the Citidel activated and that green wave of energy was merging AI and living beings, I just assumed Joker was like "Oh shit! We better run from that crazy wave of energy!" and hit the Sol relay. Of course, the relay started to blow and he had to ditch on a planet. None of that seemed like plot holes to me. It made sense.
So yeah, that kind of stuff.
Well, let's just hope he doesn't get torn apart at PAX then.
The other writer who accompanies him to PAX also writes Garrus' dialogues in ME3.
Nobody is upset Shepard had to die.
Right from under Harbinger's nose? And your sense of timing is totally screwed up if you think a shuttle takes only a couple of minutes to land (especially in the middle of a war zone) and that it doesn't take a long time to actually get to the Sol relay from Earth.ckohler said:
WiiredShawn
Member
It's basically been confirmed that the writers didn't have a say in the ending - Mac Walters and Casey Hudson went off together to play intellectuals and didn't bother to show the ending to the other writers until it was time to record lines, at which point, of course, it was too late to offer peer critique.
So, the rest of the game can still be great, and the lead writer can still have failed. No conflict, here.