SEGAvangelist
Member
So you like all 3 inhumane choices the ending offers you?
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
So you like all 3 inhumane choices the ending offers you?
I assume he just thinks it's consistent with what Space Kid could come up with.
WiiredShawn
Member
Sorry, I should have specified. The boss was aesthetically obnoxious. It was relatively easy to defeat - but I hated both its abstract appearance (god damn baby rubbing) and its condescending attitude.
Kind of like Star Child.
Like I said, I only spent a few minutes with it, so I can't even remember it that well. I do remember a baby's face, but I was just focused on beating the hell out of it so that I could finally put the game to rest. It's nowhere near as bad as vent kid. At least it doesn't tell you to jump into the lasers because.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Yeah, ugh it was so stupid to give the Illusive Man/Cerberus the villain spot, specially since tehy had introduced harbinger in ME2.
I chose the Destroy as a 'fuck you' to the space kid.
Not what I was saying, you're being fallacious. Currently we do say to other countries that they cannot develop nuclear weapons, under threat of war. The other examples you are using are just hyperbole using the idea that it might be best to kill all organics because they will eventually kill themselves. Which is not analogous to the situation presented in the game, which is to cull and store civilizations at their peak to prevent them from developing something which would kill all organics.
As for the flipside you mention, the Catalyst says it is programmed to cull organic cultures once it reaches a certain point, not assess it to see if they're being peaceful with synthetics. As I said, the fact that Shepard is assisted by synthetics, both in the ones keeping him alive and otherwise, is what gets him to stop the cycle.
Slackbladder
Member
When speaking to Javik after finding him he mentions a war the Protheans had with synthetics and they (the Protheans) were winning. Then the Reapers showed up. What I don't get is why didn't the Reapers wipe out the synthetics? Why fuck off and wait for it to happen again when they can pre-empt a potential synthetic vs organic war and stop it in its tracks? It really doesn't make much sense, at least any good sense.
It's not really a "Fuck you". You play right into his hand and you still end up paying the price.
And then, you still fuck over the Synthetics by killing them all.
That's a good point actually. Even though I did massacre all the Geth (but then I still had EDI of course).
Zomba13
Member
Reading through the thread on the BSN with the guy going through the files (probably all been done because but lost in the huge indoc thread). The child is reffured to as Guardian Child or something in all his appearances and the Reaper growl when Anderson talks to you is labelled as such in the files.
Just interesting stuff. Doesn't make the Indoc Theory any more true though. I kinda wish it was though.
Just interesting stuff. Doesn't make the Indoc Theory any more true though. I kinda wish it was though.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think this is a fine decision. They should have gone all the way with it, though. Explain that it destroys the entire galaxy to essentially "reset" everything but without Reaper interference. Don't show some bullshit breathing ending that makes NO sense.
Not in my opinion. You effectively destroy all the reapers and possibly him. I'm not sure how this is playing into his hand. Actually the only thing I found really strange about that scene was that he would even mention it.
SEGAvangelist
Member
heliosRAzi
Banned
And what I am saying is that that particular argument goes against what the games are about. We should give species a chance no matter what we think they might do in the future. It's what curing the genophage is all about. We don't know if synthetics will kill all organics just like we don't know if organics will start turning into lollipops suddenly.
And this is another problem. We aren't able to converse with the Catalyst and show it that synthetics and organics can live peacefully. Shep just accepts that logic for no reason.
HadesGigas
Member
Then they use the synthetics you created (geth in our case) to help them kill the organics. Which is pretty meta.
"We are using these synthetics you created to kill you so synthetics you created don't kill you"
I didn't, I considered that the (bad) ending for a Renegade Shepard that was too selfish to recognize that fact.
Can you link to the thread?
Zomba13
Member
Also, you know TIM's 'control mojo'? Well in the files it's called reaper indoc blur
Thread link: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10944113/1
I'd have though people would have done this a while back. Maybe they have but posted in bigger threads and it got lost? Anyway, It's still interesting stuff even if it doesn't mean anything in the end. I really enjoy knowing how files and things are named. Like how they really do call the endings red blue and green.
Hmm... /tinfoilhat
Thread link: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10944113/1
I'd have though people would have done this a while back. Maybe they have but posted in bigger threads and it got lost? Anyway, It's still interesting stuff even if it doesn't mean anything in the end. I really enjoy knowing how files and things are named. Like how they really do call the endings red blue and green.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Personally I think at one point it was true, or at least parts of it, because Hudson did say:
They probably took it out at the end, or at least the unambiguousness of it, but the signs leading up to what was going to be the Reaper control are still in there.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's probably from their planned indoc sequence
Well, the Catalyst and the Reapers are the antagonists, so their goals are supposed to be the opposite of Shepards goals.
As for talking to the Catalyst, yeah. I just took it as Shepard accepting once he turned the Crucible on that whatever happened was going to happen. Is out of character though.
Joe Molotov
Member
I chose Destroy as a "fuck you" to Bioware.
It seemed like they were pushing you towards Synthesis as the "good" ending since it requires the most War Assets to get that ending and also it's right in the middle at the end, you just have to walk forward to do it. But it's all bullshit, so fuck you Bioware, I blowed up all the reapers and fuck the consequences, and fuck your shitty non-endings.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I agree, but what I problem with is that it is elevating a sub-theme (synthetics vs. organics) in the very last few minutes of the game, we aren't able to show the Catalyst this cycle's examples of unity between synthetics and organics, and the circular logic it has presented. It is a symptom of their change from the dark energy plot to this pile of crap.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I like this.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
It can be viewed as playing into his hand because it accomplishes what the Reapers set out to do, wipe out all life in the galaxy and essentially hit the reset button. As was already mentioned, the only difference is presumably the Reapers won't be back next time.
What I disliked about that was throughout the entire game if you don't play as a Paragon or Renegade you do not get dialogue options to save characters, but at the end the game seems to push you to the Green ending instead of the Paragon/Renegade options.
Blue Ninja
Member
And the fact that it appears when the Illusive Man tries to indoctrinate you.
heliosRAzi
Banned
that too
I don't see it as wiping out all life in the galaxy.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Ahh...okay. So you don't buy into the thought that the destruction of the Mass Relays destroys a solar system or that the "red magic" destroys life as it sweeps across planets? I'm asking out of curiosity and not in a "what don't you get?" kind of way.
The endings are so ambiguous in some of these regards that they don't leave a lot open for interpretation and I think that can't have a big impact on someone's enjoyment of the ending.
No, "my" red magic didn't kill the organics on Earth, so I'm presuming it won't anywhere else either, in fact that's what the kid said, that it just killed true AI. I didn't play The Arrival so that the destruction of a Mass Relay would inevitably kill off the solar system was new to me, but I don't really think this happened in this case either, or Bioware wouldn't have shown the cheering humans. Could be space magic, or simply that the Mass Relays are destroyed in another way than in The Arrival.
We don't see the Mass Relays destroying solar systems. It's still possible that their destruction was a very local event, especially considering that unlike in The Arrival where it was an accident, this was a deliberate destruction by the Catalyst. It's not unreasonable to think that the Catalyst had the power to "break" the Mass Relays without unleashing their energy enough to destroy all life in their respective systems.
To be completely honest, when I saw the ending for the first time, I made the assumption that the Catalyst "broke" the Mass Relays so they could no longer be used. That's all. Not that they exploded unintentionally and with catastrophic ramifications.
Granted, we see Joker racing as fast as he can from what appears to be a Mass Rely explosion. But how big is that explosion? Where was the Normandy, exactly? How far from Earth was it? Maybe it moving between two relays and just got caught up in the chain reaction beams moving between them. Who's to know?
It's a valid solution, according to him.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Erm the same thing happens no matter what you choose, the relays blow up and it could be said destroy the solar system. There is no option available for you to NOT blow the relays up. So if you are assuming that the red option destroys a solar system then so does the blue and green option because it is the exact same cinematic only in a different colour.
WrenchNinja
Member
We should. In a series that goes out of its way to explain everything, the fact that nothing is explained in the ending is ridiculous.
And the Alpha relay's destruction was not accidental.
Yeah that's how I rationalize it too. But it seems a bit... if he doesn't have some kind of self-preservation instinct, or at least feeling of self-importance, why create a solution in the first place. Then again, if he genuinely was at a loss for the right path, now that his aeons old solution failed working, then taking himself/the reapers out of the equation would seem a valid solution.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I haven't played The Arrival either and had no knowledge of the destruction of the Relays, although the Codex apparently points out that they go supernova when destroyed and wipe out the solar system as well.
That said, when I played through, I didn't know anything about that. I did both the red and blue endings, and my red ending showed troops on Earth being killed with the blast that took out the Reapers, but my blue ending showed the Reapers halting their attacks and the troops surviving. Thus the idea that in my endings the "red magic" seemed to be wiping out all kinds of lifeforms.
Obviously your war readiness rating plays a big role in how some of these variables in the endings play out. Which seemed odd to me since that readiness rating was such an abstract element in the main game for me.
That said, when I played through, I didn't know anything about that. I did both the red and blue endings, and my red ending showed troops on Earth being killed with the blast that took out the Reapers, but my blue ending showed the Reapers halting their attacks and the troops surviving. Thus the idea that in my endings the "red magic" seemed to be wiping out all kinds of lifeforms.
Obviously your war readiness rating plays a big role in how some of these variables in the endings play out. Which seemed odd to me since that readiness rating was such an abstract element in the main game for me.
That Legion conversation is why I kinda really dont like the end of Rannoch.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Exactly. When you establish rules in your story and something breaks those rules, you have to explain it.
Besides, Shepard wouldn't have chose any of those endings on the basis that the other time he saw a relay get destroyed, it took out an entire system. The Catalyst said nothing else except destroy, like Zomba (props bro-ham) said. Shepard, from his perspective, willingly destroyed a lot of people.
That Shepard is out of character.
riceandbeans
Member
That part didn't make much sense for me either. Half way through the game, EDI and the Geth gain self-awareness and are willing to cooperate with the universe.
If they would've explained how the Geth will eventually turn on the universe or why synthetic self-awareness doesn't matter, it would have made things better to understand.
This is a point where the game seems inconsistent, at least across the endings. Which is probably also why we're having a lot of this discussion in the first place lol. I figured the Normandy crashed because it was steered by an AI, and the Normandy got caught up by a red magic explosion. Then again, it also crashes due to blue magic and green magic, which makes a lot less sense in light of this explanation.
Javik's 'throw him out of the airlock' speech is what made me decide to Gethicide them.
CharmingCharlie
Member
The red ending only destroys life on earth if you have a very low EMS. If you have an EMS of over 2800 then the red ending does not destroy life on Earth.
The argument about life being destroyed in the solar system is down to the destruction of the relays. It was established that by destroying the relay you create a blast wave that destroys the system the relay is situated in. However some believe that the "space magic" does the relay destruction in a super duper wonderful way so that it completely and utterly cancels out the established lore of the game.
WrenchNinja
Member
The skewed perspective of the guy from the imperialistic asshole culture who has only ever known war is what convinced you to kill the Geth?
Zomba13
Member
Hopefully you didn't listen to anything else he said. Well, I guess it's good Shep is dead though, or else he'd take what he learned from Javika and enslave all the other races.
Yes, because his philosophical points were still true regardless. And he was badass, so there was definite bromance between him and my badass shepard.
Javik is a great character, but I'd never do anything he says.