Support NeoGAF

[Rufus]

That's worse to me because it would not make sense that they left the Mass Effect relays and technology to further develop Mass Effect technology, then come along and kill everyone for using it.

That aspect doesn't make sense as it is, because the technology they leave behind helps develop synthetics, too. So in part they create the problem they say they are there to solve.

It makes more sense with the dark energy problem. They need to absorb advanced civilizations in hopes of finding a solution. So they water the field, add fertilizer and hope to speed development along so they can increase their processing power faster than they could if they waited for every species to develop naturally.

The thing that throws a spanner into that is ME2, where for some reason humans are special because of their genetic variety (which is tenuous in itself, but we are led to believe the other species are even worse). Technologically, the Asari would be the better choice.

 

[Dresden]

It's probably worth examining why someone else's opinion upsets you so much.

Sorry, not interested in schoolyard psychology bullshit.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

A lot of you guys have been asking for a well-written defense of the ending. Here it is!

Badass Digest's Devin Faraci weighs in on the ending: http://badassdigest.com/2012/04/03/the-ending-of-mass-effect-3-is-spectacular/

I'll preface this by saying that Devin is one of my favorite writers on the web; he's never afraid to challenge your opinions. His deconstruction of the LOST finale is legendary and his interpretation of Inception will change the way you view the movie. He's an excellent writer, just don't get too butthurt when you disagree with him.

Seems like staying up to 3AM stopped him from thinking much about the ending. Who knows if he even played the first 2 and did some digging into the lore like he would his favorite TV shows? Can't wait to see how he actually "defends" the ending since he didn't address most of the reasons other didn't like it.

 

[rozay]

Some of you are posing very interesting counterpoints; why not post it in the comments in the article? Devin is pretty quick to respond to interesting comments.

Seriously, just copypasta your posts from this circlejerk of a thread and post it in the comments.*

*Not a shill for Badass Digest. Just someone that enjoys interesting discussion.

and you say we're the butthurt ones?

 

[heliosRAzi]

and you say we're the butthurt ones?

You just don't understand life

 

[Zomba13]

and you say we're the butthurt ones?

Well, we are in the minority.

 

[The Elite]

The ending is like the kobayashi maru. Eventually, some hacker is going to find a way to work around it and cheat their way to what they think is a better ending. Completely nullifying the urgency of the moment with some ridiculous fourth option that has Shepard sit down with the Catalyst in order to argue out a better solution based on the options you've made in the past three games. Meanwhile the annihilation of the human race pauses so that Shepard can pull an almighty rabbit out of his hat that sees the Mass Relays stay intact with little sacrifice being made to save everyone.

Cue 40-minute epilogue that chronicles each character's life after the end of the war.

 

[DTKT]

Another choice quote from that "article" :

I think the ending of Red Dead Redemption remains my favorite video game finale but the ending of Mass Effect 3 is the most successful, paying off complex philosophical ideas that have been carried through for hundreds of hours

philosophical ideas.

He picked the green ending without actually understanding what it does.

It's a terrible article.

The ending is like the kobayashi maru. Eventually, some hacker is going to find a way to work around it and cheat their way to what they think is a better ending. Completely nullifying the urgency of the moment with some ridiculous fourth option that has Shepard sit down with the Catalyst in order to argue out a better solution based on the options you've made in the past three games. Meanwhile the annihilation of the human race pauses so that Shepard can pull an almighty rabbit out of his hat that sees the Mass Relays stay intact with little sacrifice being made to save everyone.

Yeah, because the space kid is not the bloody rabbit in the first place. I don't even know what you are trying to defend anymore. Do you mean that Shepard never did that before? He brokered a peace between the Quarian and the Geth and made the Krogan and Turians ally with each other.

Give me a break with your rabbit. MASS EFFECT USES RABBIT IN HATS EVERYWHERE. I don't see why the ending needs to be any different.

 

[Sotha Sil]

The ending is like the kobayashi maru. Eventually, some hacker is going to find a way to work around it and cheat their way to what they think is a better ending. Completely nullifying the urgency of the moment with some ridiculous fourth option that has Shepard sit down with the Catalyst in order to argue out a better solution based on the options you've made in the past three games. Meanwhile the annihilation of the human race pauses so that Shepard can pull an almighty rabbit out of his hat that sees the Mass Relays stay intact with little sacrifice being made to save everyone.

Cue 40-minute epilogue that chronicles each character's life after the end of the war.

Curse this strawman hacker!

 

[The Elite]

Another choice quote from that "article" :



philosophical ideas.

He picked the green ending without actually understanding what it does.

It's a terrible article.




Yeah, because the space kid is not the bloody rabbit in the first place. I don't even know what you are trying to defend anymore.

The space kid is not a rabbit. As far as I can tell, he is the physical embodiment of whatever came before the Repears. I don't see how that is a rabbit at all.

Curse this strawman hacker!

If this isn't already happening with text box dialogue, I'll be shocked. Someone is going to try and prove to Bioware that they can do it better in hopes of getting a writing job with a game company.

 

[heliosRAzi]

The ending is like the kobayashi maru. Eventually, some hacker is going to find a way to work around it and cheat their way to what they think is a better ending. Completely nullifying the urgency of the moment with some ridiculous fourth option that has Shepard sit down with the Catalyst in order to argue out a better solution based on the options you've made in the past three games. Meanwhile the annihilation of the human race pauses so that Shepard can pull an almighty rabbit out of his hat that sees the Mass Relays stay intact with little sacrifice being made to save everyone.

Cue 40-minute epilogue that chronicles each character's life after the end of the war.

Or Bioware could have made a better ending...

The space kid is not a rabbit. As far as I can tell, he is the physical embodiment of whatever came before the Repears. I don't see how that is a rabbit at all.

It literally got introduced as a character in the last few minutes in the series. How is it not a rabbit in a hat?

 

[DTKT]

The space kid is not a rabbit. As far as I can tell, he is the physical embodiment of whatever came before the Repears. I don't see how that is a rabbit at all.

You are right. He's a space rabbit. My bad.

I'm still raging at that space kid. What a terrible storytelling device. I mean shit, the VI on Ilos was handled so much better.

 

[Bowdz]

The ending is like the kobayashi maru. Eventually, some hacker is going to find a way to work around it and cheat their way to what they think is a better ending. Completely nullifying the urgency of the moment with some ridiculous fourth option that has Shepard sit down with the Catalyst in order to argue out a better solution based on the options you've made in the past three games. Meanwhile the annihilation of the human race pauses so that Shepard can pull an almighty rabbit out of his hat that sees the Mass Relays stay intact with little sacrifice being made to save everyone.

Cue 40-minute epilogue that chronicles each character's life after the end of the war.

Shepard should have flashed the Starchild this. That would have been his fourth option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD2CgU-xy9E

 

[Dresden]

Someone is going to try and prove to Bioware that they can do it better in hopes of getting a writing job with a game company.

Deleting the entire scene with starkid would already do that.

 

[WiiredShawn]

It's probably worth examining why someone else's opinion upsets you so much.

The fact that his opinion flies in the face of a little critical introspection is probably reason enough.

The writer may have performed well with other mediums, but I seriously do not think he has any idea what he's talking about here. Seriously:

That grey isn’t a confusion and chaos, it’s the incredible availability of options.

There are three options that are basically the same in terms of presentation, inconclusive or simply nonsensical in their ramifications and ultimately propelled by SPACE MAGIC from a Starkid who is shoehorned into the plot with flimsy logic.

That is not an "incredible availability of options" - and then he has the gall to assert that we should have even fewer options? Really? He should have done some actual research before he wrote the article, and then applied some actual literary criticism, rather than, as one of the posters above eloquently said, spout off platitudes to Bioware's infallibility.

If anything, this situation with the ending shows that some people are the Shepard to Bioware's God Child - exhausted from the effort of playing and willing to believe any inane assertion as a blessing upon them, too incredible for their mind to grasp rather than too stupid for their mind to accept. And I say this as someone who was totally ready to believe in Indoctrination Theory from the get-go (it's still my head canon, I admit).

 

[WrenchNinja]

and you say we're the butthurt ones?

Better watch out, he might call us misogynists again.

 

[The Elite]

You are right. He's a space rabbit. My bad.

I'm still raging at that space kid. What a terrible storytelling device. I mean shit, the VI on Ilos was handled so much better.

He's a gatekeeper, a late one, but a gatekeeper nonetheless. He honestly didn't tell me anything I hadn't already figured out for myself through the story we've been told the last three games. He setup the final leg of the journey, Shepard's final choice.

 

[90sRobots]

and you say we're the butthurt ones?

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

 

[heliosRAzi]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

You must keep visiting us when we are in the agreement part of the cycle. There are people who come in and provide counterpoints... then we crush them or they assimilate willingly. Basically, we're protheans.

 

[Zomba13]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

But there is, when people give a point as to why they like the ending there is a counterpoint as to why it is bad in some way. It's hardly our fault the games ending sucks and most people see that.

He's a gatekeeper, a late one, but a gatekeeper nonetheless. He honestly didn't tell me anything I hadn't already figured out for myself through the story we've been told the last three games. He setup the final leg of the journey, Shepard's final choice.

So you figured out somewhere along the line that the reapers (synthetic life) were made to destroy us when we got advanced enough to make synthetic life because that synthetic life would end up destroying us?

 

[DTKT]

He's a gatekeeper, a late one, but a gatekeeper nonetheless. He honestly didn't tell me anything I hadn't already figured out for myself through the story we've been told the last three games. He setup the final leg of the journey, Shepard's final choice.

Then, I guessed we had different expectations . Because, if you figured out that the Reapers kill everyone because they want to protect them, then I tip my space hat to you.

I was not ready for a space magic ending and I don't think it's a fitting ending to ME3.

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

That's because the counter-point has been "You just don't understand life" for the the past few days. It's too deep for us. We've been defeated by the "high-minded" endings from Casey Hudson and Mac Walters.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

Then join in and get some real debating going in this thread. Or you could insult us.

 

[heliosRAzi]

He's a gatekeeper, a late one, but a gatekeeper nonetheless. He honestly didn't tell me anything I hadn't already figured out for myself through the story we've been told the last three games. He setup the final leg of the journey, Shepard's final choice.

You already knew the reasons why the Reapers were harvesting species? You already knew about the Catalyst in ME1 and 2?

 

[The Elite]

Then, I guessed we had different expectations . Because, if you figured out that the Reapers kill everyone because they want to protect them, then I tip my space hat to you.

I was not ready for a space magic ending and I don't think it's a fitting ending to ME3.

I saw it coming a mile away. I think it was the Matrix vibe I've been getting since the first game and the cycling nature of the Reapers attacks. It seemed obvious to me for a very long time.

Just to note, I hate the ending to Revolutions.

You already knew the reasons why the Reapers were harvesting species? You already knew about the Catalyst in ME1 and 2?

Not the Catalyst. Like I said above, it was the cycling nature of the Reapers attack that clued me in on their intentions.

 

[Dresden]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

we look forward to your rebuttal

sounds like you're butthurt yourself, chum

 

[heliosRAzi]

Not the Catalyst. Like I said above, it was the cycling nature of the Reapers attack that clued me in on their intentions.

Or Harbinger saying "We are your salvation through destruction"

Did you already know why the Reapers reap, like specifically why?

 

[Rufus]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

Consensus is an illusion, I guess.
You do have a point about it being a bit of a circle-jerk in that we work each other up about the same points, but there has been discussion with many posters in the first and this thread, most recently DoctorWho and spekkeh.
It's just drowned out by the mass of people that don't like the ending. And the thread is still very lively. It's bound to speed up even more come PAX.

 

[Rengoku]

Then join in and get some real debating going in this thread. Or you could insult us.

Its easier to insult than to provide good counterpoints. Besides, it allows him to bring down the quality of discussion within this thread.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I saw it coming a mile away. I think it was the Matrix vibe I've been getting since the first game and the cycling nature of the Reapers attacks. It seemed obvious to me for a very long time.

Just to note, I hate the ending to Revolutions.


Not the Catalyst. Like I said above, it was the cycling nature of the Reapers attack that clued me in on their intentions.

While I didn't see it playing out exactly as it did, I picked up on a similar vibe as well. I won't go so far as to say it was obvious, but I wasn't surprised in the least at how some of the Reaper concepts were handled down the stretch.

I also predicted that the Mass Relays would be destroyed, although not having played The Arrival, I didn't know they would have the effect they did.

 

[MYeager]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

We aren't all on the same page though. I don't mind the ending, DoctorWho appear to not mind it either. There are several who hate the ending, a couple of them for different reasons.

I think the only thing everyone might be on the same page about is that the way the ending was presented was not as well delivered as many other moments in the game.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Its easier to insult than to provide good counterpoints. Besides, it allows him to bring down the quality of discussion within this thread.

He's keeping us from being high level

 

[Tajin]

It's a circlejerk because there's no point/counterpoint discussion. Everyone's on the same page with little to no catharsis. I revisit the thread to see what interesting nuggets people dig up (the Game Informer blurb, for example), but this thread is little more than group masturbation.

Fuck you. Group masturbation is awesome.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I saw it coming a mile away. I think it was the Matrix vibe I've been getting since the first game and the cycling nature of the Reapers attacks. It seemed obvious to me for a very long time.

Just to note, I hate the ending to Revolutions.





Not the Catalyst. Like I said above, it was the cycling nature of the Reapers attack that clued me in on their intentions.

What clues led you to believe the Reapers wanted to save organics from synthetics?

 

[The Elite]

Or Harbinger saying "We are your salvation through destruction"

Did you already know why the Reapers reap, like specifically why?

I won't say specifically. I got the impression it was a reset or a culling of the intelligent species in the universe to make sure that the galaxy stayed at a certain level of progress. If the intelligent species become too powerful, they threaten the balance in the galaxy and the reapers swoop in to clean that shit up.

I was hoping they may explore the Reapers ulterior motive of self preservation. If the current cycle developed an AI that could counter the Reapers, they would pose a threat and that is why the Reapers would want to make sure that us, and our AIs, couldn't develop beyond a certain level.

If they explored that, I assume it would be the rise of the Geth that would have triggered the Reapers current culling cycle.

Annihilation of space-ferrying species in the current cycle is the only logical solution.

 

[Empty Space]

I saw it coming a mile away. I think it was the Matrix vibe I've been getting since the first game and the cycling nature of the Reapers attacks. It seemed obvious to me for a very long time.

Just to note, I hate the ending to Revolutions.





Not the Catalyst. Like I said above, it was the cycling nature of the Reapers attack that clued me in on their intentions.

You are suffering from what they call hindsight bias. There is not a single shred of evidence in the series that the Reapers goal is to prevent a synthetic uprising.

The only thing that was evident about the Reapers and their machinations was that there was a pattern to it.

 

[MotionBlue]

"We Protheans were on the cusp of unlocking Mass Relay technology."
- Vigil

The conduit was a mini-relay.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I won't say specifically. I got the impression it was a reset or a culling of the intelligent species in the universe to make sure that the galaxy stayed at a certain level of progress.

It's perfectly understandable that you got that impression since it's flat out told to us that they do this. We just didn't know why.

Then ME3 happened and they gave us a stupid, contradictory reason.

 

[RedRedSuit]

It's perfectly understandable that you got that impression since it's flat out told to us that they do this. We just didn't know why.

Then ME3 happened and they gave us a stupid, contradictory reason.

And a stupid, contradictory solution (G ending).

 

[MYeager]

You are suffering from what they call hindsight bias. There is not a single shred of evidence in the series that the Reapers goal is to prevent a synthetic uprising.

The only thing that was evident about the Reapers and their machinations was that there was a pattern to it.

He never specifically said he knew it was a synthetic uprising. What you do know before the 3rd game is that it's a cycle, and they funnel the technological advancement of species into certain paths.

So it's not hard to imagine that the Reapers might be culling civilizations before they reach a certain point. Personally I thought it was going to be that they were culling civilizations before they were able to develop weapons that could potentially destroy the universe. I always figured Shep would die, I just never thought they'd do it because of DLC.

 

[WiiredShawn]

I won't say specifically. I got the impression it was a reset or a culling of the intelligent species in the universe to make sure that the galaxy stayed at a certain level of progress. If the intelligent species become too powerful, they threaten the balance in the galaxy and the reapers swoop in to clean that shit up.

I was hoping they may explore the Reapers ulterior motive of self preservation. If the current cycle developed an AI that could counter the Reapers, they would pose a threat and that is why the Reapers would want to make sure that us, and our AIs, couldn't develop beyond a certain level.

If they explored that, I assume it would be the rise of the Geth that would have triggered the Reapers current culling cycle.

Annihilation of space-ferrying species in the current cycle is the only logical solution.

Bioware missed an easy opportunity to add sympathy to the villain, like EAD did for Ganondorf in Wind Waker. The ending could have easily been some awesome engagement with Harbinger, scaling his enormous body until you reached his central core, where he would engage you in conversation and you would learn that the Reapers were once just a synthetic race who never recovered from the betrayal of their creators, and rather than try to hide away like the Geth, they went on a rampage against all advanced life, overgeneralizing their "feelings" toward all organics. Maybe Harbinger initiated it all, inventing the notion of "bringing order to chaos" as a defense mechanism for being rejected by his creators.

That's just one possibility off the top of my head; but there's so many better ways to handle it. This didn't have to be "the only logical conclusion" - clearly Mac Walters doesn't care too deeply for logical conclusions, because the ending is ripe with contradictions. If you're going to apply some logical stretches, it might as well be in the direction of something surprising, satisfying and meaningful.

 

[heliosRAzi]

And a stupid, contradictory solution (G ending).

Mass Effect 3: Contradictions

So it's not hard to imagine that the Reapers might be culling civilizations before they reach a certain point.

This was told to us in the previous games.

We just didn't know why until the last few minutes of ME3 and it contradicts the rest of the series.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

I really, REALLY doubt anyone imagined the purpose of the Reapers was to stop a hypothetical technological singularity.

 

[Dresden]

'don't want you getting killed by synthetics so we synthetics will just kill you instead' is an idea so stupid that I don't think anyone expected it going in.

 

[Minion101]

Some of you are posing very interesting counterpoints; why not post it in the comments in the article? Devin is pretty quick to respond to interesting comments.

Seriously, just copypasta your posts from this circlejerk of a thread and post it in the comments.*

*Not a shill for Badass Digest. Just someone that enjoys interesting discussion.

He brings up good points. People always seem to whine when things aren't wrapped up in a bow at the end.

 

[The Elite]

Bioware missed an easy opportunity to add sympathy to the villain, like EAD did for Ganondorf in Wind Waker. The ending could have easily been some awesome engagement with Harbinger, scaling his enormous body until you reached his central core, where he would engage you in conversation and you would learn that the Reapers were once just a synthetic race who never recovered from the betrayal of their creators, and rather than try to hide away like the Geth, they went on a rampage against all advanced life, overgeneralizing their "feelings" toward all organics. Maybe Harbinger initiated it all, inventing the notion of "bringing order to chaos" as a defense mechanism for being rejected by his creators.

That's just one possibility off the top of my head; but there's so many better ways to handle it. This didn't have to be "the only logical conclusion" - clearly Mac Walters doesn't care too deeply for logical conclusions, because the ending is ripe with contradictions. If you're going to apply some logical stretches, it might as well be in the direction of something surprising, satisfying and meaningful.

The Internet would dub your ending the "Emo-Reaper" one. How would Shepard overcome the Reaper's fear that organics would ultimately try to destroy them? Would they sit down and have a long talk about their feelings. Would Shepard say "We're not your creators, our alliance proves that we can work together." and then the fighting would just stop. I wouldn't like that ending much.

 

[heliosRAzi]

He brings up good points. People always seem to whine when things aren't wrapped up in a bow at the end.

Not always. Although we do like to see the fruits of our labor much more substantially than a color swapped ending.

 

[MYeager]

Mass Effect 3: Contradictions



This was told to us in the previous games.

We just didn't know why until the last few minutes of ME3 and it contradicts the rest of the series.

How so? If an AI is programmed to do this every 50k years, it's not just going to stop just because people came together momentarily to face a greater threat.

 

[Photolysis]

Just started my Insanity playthrough after used Gibbed to change my class to a Vanguard (why can't you do this when importing a ME3 character? Oh well). And I thought they were overpowered in multiplayer.

Unlocking Javik without the DLC also does work on the 360. I'd have thought that the multiple discs might be an issue but apparently not.

 

[Ezio]

While I wasn't as displeased as some seem to be over the ending I for sure thought it could've been way better.

 

[Minion101]

Not always. Although we do like to see the fruits of our labor much more substantially than a color swapped ending.

No it's always, they are the vocal minority.