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[Rufus]

They also finalized the ending in the last two months or something. Sigh.

It's funny, I usually do side towards the Dark Side in games with those sorts of choices because I just find it more fun, though whenever I play Torment I can never do it. I always have to play good in that game, every single time. It's one of the few RPGs I've played where I actually feel bad if I do something bad in it. If only Mass Effect had that sort of morality going for it; it would've been quite something.

You can be a real dick in Torment.

I think the options for one of the collectors (Nodd, some poor sod in Ragpicker's square), even after you talk to his sister for him and she gives you a bit of money to pass onto him are as follows:
- Cup his hand, put the money in his palm and close it.
- Drop the coins in his open palm.
- Throw the money in front of his feet.
- Don't mention the money, say goodbye.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

What does high level mean?

Art.

Or according to G4:

…the presence of its conclusion feels like the existential dread that infuses the characters that make up its universe. The paradox of the game becomes painfully prescient as it draws inexorably towards its conclusion.

 

[Achtius]

edit: wrong thread XD

 

[King of the Potato People]

Aria probably used her contacts and such like to get on, she can call the Asari councillor when she wants, she probably didn't have that much trouble getting on.

As for Wrex, where does he try to attack Shepard?
The video I saw looked like the Normandy docking area, meaning he probably hadn't come across security to get his weapon taken off him yet.

Yeah I just re-watched the clip on someone else’s play through and noticed as Wrex somehow gets past the docks into the waiting room, approximately one guard is waiting by the door, he tries to confront Wrex and gets chucked away.

At the least Wrex should tell everyone, or get some backup if he was trying to expose the fake cure and kill the strongest soldier in the galaxy. I know Wrex isn’t the smartest… but still.

 

[Zeliard]

You can be a real dick in Torment.

I think the options for one of the collectors (Nodd, some poor sod in Ragpicker's square), even after you talk to his sister for him and she gives you a bit of money in return are as follows:
- Cup his hand, put the money in his palm and close it.
- Drop the coins in his open palm.
- Throw the money in front of his feet.
- Don't mention the money, say goodbye.

Haha yeah poor Nodd. You could be a real bastard to him. To almost everyone, really.

Options like that third one - I just can't do it.

 

[hateradio]

From now on, I will disregard anyone who uses the term "high level" in regards to conversations.

 

[Rufus]

Haha yeah poor Nodd. You could be a real bastard to him. To almost everyone, really.

http://www.abload.de/img/torment2012-03-2022-2wjego.png

Options like that third one - I just can't do it.

Yeah, I was always an angel too. I let all pickpockets go, too. I mean what kind of bastard shoves Morte back into the pillar?
Still didn't keep me from bringing Vhailor to the fight with Tiresias on most playthroughs. Redeem him AND have Vhailor kill him right after, obtain sweet weapon.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

From now on, I will disregard anyone who uses the term "high level" in regards to conversations.

Its a dick term, its essentially saying "this is for the educated, the deep, the philosophical and the enlightened." It makes the person saying it come off as a complete ass its pretty much what i expect the ME3 story guys to be saying regarding the ending.

"its mold breaking if you think it sucked then you dont understand it, its has deeper meaning ect"

 

[Rufus]

Its a dick term, its essentially saying "this is for the educated, the deep, the philosophical and the enlightened." It makes the person saying it come off as a complete ass its pretty much what i expect the ME3 story guys to be saying regarding the ending.

"its mold breaking if you think it sucked then you dont understand it, its has deeper meaning ect"

The 'happy ending' bullshit goes in this direction, too. "You just wanted some Hollywood, happy ever after schlock, admit it."

 

[Gestahl]

Another negative for the ending: Making Buzz "My Sweet" Aldrin sound like a creepy pedo grandpa

 

[King of the Potato People]

I was surprised finding Jack had been assimilated and then killed her in one hit ‘oh!’ In my story, that's the end of her tragic arc, no future references.
Bioware tried to do too much and it showed, because some of it near the end is just half-arsed (What more can be said about the endings?)

 

[LightofRohan]

Another negative for the ending: Making Buzz "My Sweet" Aldrin sound like a creepy pedo grandpa

What the fuck that was Buzz Aldrin, I thought they just got some random old guy from the office to record it. It was atrocious.

 

[Rufus]

(What more can be said about the endings?)

It'd be amazing if we made it to a third thread. This one's veering off topic more often already, I think. Just like ME2. We could mimic the arc of the trilogy.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Is there an explanation for the 50,000 year interval? Scientifically speaking, 50,000 years is NOT enough time for a simple single-celled organism to evolve into complex multicellular organism. The God-Child states that the reaping allows for young species to evolve (just as the previous reaping had allowed humans to evolve) yet the idea of evolving from relative non-sentience to modern man in 50,000 years is absolutely ludicrous. Given what we know about technological evolution and the diversity of species in the ME universe, are we expect that the Asari, Salarians, etc. all reached the pinnacle of their respective civilization within a 50,000 year period (having been a relative non-entity and non-threat during the previous interval) i.e., not only did they rapidly evolve from pond scum into a hyper-intelligent race, but their societal infrastructure and development followed suit just as rapidly?

 

[WanderingWind]

Another negative for the ending: Making Buzz "My Sweet" Aldrin sound like a creepy pedo grandpa

No. No. No.

I will not brook any insult toward Buzz Aldrin. You walk that path alone, my sweet.

 

[Zeliard]

Yeah, I was always an angel too. I let all pickpockets go, too. I mean what kind of bastard shoves Morte back into the pillar?
Still didn't keep me from bringing Vhailor to the fight with Tiresias on most playthroughs. Redeem him AND have Vhailor kill him right after, obtain sweet weapon.

Heh man, talking about Torment just feels bad. Feels good but feels bad. It's a shame that so few games since have even attempted to do what that game did with morality and player choice. Mark against the industry, imo.

Around the turn of the century I thought the future of gaming would be filled with titles similar to System Shock 2, Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, etc. I thought Deus Ex in particular would be hugely influential with its combination of FPS/RPG, especially since it was also a commercial success. It was influential in some sense but not nearly enough games attempted to do what it did, or those other games.

But anyways, we're getting a bit OT.

REAPERS.

 

[Derrick01]

No. No. No.

I will not brook any insult toward Buzz Aldrin. You walk that path alone, my sweet.

You should just look at it as an insult towards Bioware, since he said they made him look that way

 

[EatChildren]

Is there an explanation for the 50,000 year interval? Scientifically speaking, 50,000 years is NOT enough time for a simple single-celled organism to evolve into complex multicellular organism. The God-Child states that the reaping allows for young species to evolve (just as the previous reaping had allowed humans to evolve) yet the idea of evolving from relative non-sentience to modern man in 50,000 years is absolutely ludicrous. Given what we know about technological evolution and the diversity of species in the ME universe, are we expect that the Asari, Salarians, etc. all reached the pinnacle of their respective civilization within a 50,000 year period (having been a relative non-entity and non-threat during the previous interval) i.e., not only did they rapidly evolve from pond scum into a hyper-intelligent race, but their societal infrastructure and development followed suit just as rapidly?

They don't evolve fully within 50,000 years. Only advanced, spacefaring species are consumed by the Reapers. Primitive species are not, and are left to evolve over another 50,000 years before the next cycle starts.

 

[Rufus]

They mean primitive, non-space faring, civilizations. They leave everyone alone who hasn't sent space ships through a Mass Relay, or found and populated the Citadel, I think. Not sure about the cut-off, but that's basically it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Art.

Or according to G4:

please tell me those aren't real sentences written by human beings

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

please tell me those aren't real sentences written by human beings

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

one hopes.

 

[Zeliard]

The 50,000 year thing is actually one of the fairly logical and neat parts. Since the Reapers/Catalyst lead every race towards the Citadel and the Mass Relay system, they can effectively predict their technological evolution and guarantee that they won't evolve so early that they've already built murderous robots that consume the galaxy in those intervening 50,000 years.

 

[inky]

please tell me those aren't real sentences written by human beings

Nah, it's a review by a gaemz journalist.

 

[EatChildren]

I like how they use the term 'paradox' when I'm pretty sure they don't know what it means.

 

[Rufus]

Heh man, talking about Torment just feels bad. Feels good but feels bad. It's a shame that so few games since have even attempted to do what that game did with morality and player choice. Mark against the industry, imo.

Around the turn of the century I thought the future of gaming would be filled with titles similar to System Shock 2, Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, etc. I thought Deus Ex in particular would be hugely influential with its combination of FPS/RPG, especially since it was also a commercial success. It was influential in some sense but not nearly enough games attempted to do what it did, or those other games.

But anyways, we're getting a bit OT.

REAPERS.

Now Torment, there's a game with a satisfying ending(s).

Hey, Dishonoured looks promising. This cycle could deliver, still.

Right. It's soothing though.

BWRAAAAAAAAAAAM.

The 50,000 year thing is actually one of the fairly logical and neat parts. Since the Reapers/Catalyst lead every race towards the Citadel and the Mass Relay system, they can effectively predict their technological evolution and guarantee that they won't evolve so early that they've already built murderous robots that consume the galaxy in those intervening 50,000 years.

True, but then what would alert them to it if they did?

"Synthetics activated the Citadel this time? ...Shit."

 

[Jintor]

They also finalized the ending in the last two months or something. Sigh.


You can be a real dick in Torment.

I think the options for one of the collectors (Nodd, some poor sod in Ragpicker's square), even after you talk to his sister for him and she gives you a bit of money to pass onto him are as follows:
- Cup his hand, put the money in his palm and close it.
- Drop the coins in his open palm.
- Throw the money in front of his feet.
- Don't mention the money, say goodbye.

Somewhat unrelated, but one of my favourite things about Torment was that you often had dialogue options for the exact same words, but one would be truthful and the other would be a lie. What was it?

- Yes, I'll do this
- Yes, I'll do this (lie)
- Nope, fuck off
- I'll consider it

Man. That game was really well designed and written.

 

[rdrr gnr]

They don't evolve fully within 50,000 years. Only advanced, spacefaring species are consumed by the Reapers. Primitive species are not, and are left to evolve over another 50,000 years before the next cycle starts.

That number is still unbelievably arbitrary. 50,000 years is absolutely nothing on an evolutionary time-scale. If a species were to be deemed primitive enough to avoid culling, the reapers could -- in theory -- wait hundreds of thousands of years before returning, as they would have nothing to fear.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Got my Art of the Mass Effect Universe today. It was a birthday present from my brother. Gorgeous book, nice oversized hardcover. I would not have asked for it 24 hours later (after I beat the game) but the concept art is still good, and ME1&2!

Wish they had put the same amount of effort into the ending.

 

[Patryn]

Oh, fun thing you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't have the art book: Cannibals aren't just Batarians.

They're Batarians with a HUMAN BODY on its arm as the cannon. Yep, the Reapers combined the Batarians and their slaves to make Cannibals.

 

[Jintor]

No. No. No.

I will not brook any insult toward Buzz Aldrin. You walk that path alone, my sweet.

I'm just really pissed they didn't have him voice someone punching out a reporter or something.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Oh, fun thing you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't have the art book: Cannibals aren't just Batarians.

They're Batarians with a HUMAN BODY on its arm as the cannon. Yep, the Reapers combined the Batarians and their slaves to make Cannibals.

You can see the human skull on the right side of the body.

 

[Zeliard]

Now Torment, there's a game with a satisfying ending(s).

Hey, Dishonoured looks promising. This cycle could deliver, still.

Right. It's soothing though.

BWRAAAAAAAAAAAM.

Dishonoured does look cool (hopefully Harvey Smith still has it). They're certainly saying all the right things. And I'm also excited by the new Kickstarter rage. One of the more promising developments we've seen in a long time.

 

[EatChildren]

That number is still unbelievably arbitrary. 50,000 years is absolutely nothing on an evolutionary time-scale. If a species were to be deemed primitive enough to avoid culling, the reapers could -- in theory -- wait hundreds of thousands of years before returning, as they would have nothing to fear.

It's arbitrary but it fits. In the context of the universe 50,000 years is enough for a species to go from nomadic tribes to spacefaring, the latter accelerated by technology and relays left behind by the Reapers.

 

[Karl2177]

That number is still unbelievably arbitrary. 50,000 years is absolutely nothing on an evolutionary time-scale. If a species were to be deemed primitive enough to avoid culling, the reapers could -- in theory -- wait hundreds of thousands of years before returning, as they would have nothing to fear.

According to wikipedia, the modern human started evolving more into what we are today around 50 000 years ago. It's probably why they chose that number.

 

[Empty Space]

Oh, fun thing you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't have the art book: Cannibals aren't just Batarians.

They're Batarians with a HUMAN BODY on its arm as the cannon. Yep, the Reapers combined the Batarians and their slaves to make Cannibals.

I noticed this myself, but do Batarians really exclusively deal in human slaves? I would have assumed they use Batarians and Vorcha as well.

 

[Rufus]

Oh, fun thing you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't have the art book: Cannibals aren't just Batarians.

They're Batarians with a HUMAN BODY on its arm as the cannon. Yep, the Reapers combined the Batarians and their slaves to make Cannibals.

Above the shoulder, notice the teeth? Never realized it while playing. Pretty fucked up.

 

[Patryn]

Honestly, the Batarians were one of the most wasted elements of the ME lore. They were built up in Bring Down the Sky as this great new enemy race, then pretty much ignored in ME2 except as faces in the slums, and then pretty much destroyed by the Reapers before ME3 even begins.

I swear, ME2 squandered so much potential in exploring the dark underbelly of the ME universe.

I noticed this myself, but do Batarians really exclusively deal in human slaves? I would have assumed they use Batarians and Vorcha as well.

I don't believe exclusively, but mostly.

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm just really pissed they didn't have him voice someone punching out a reporter or something.

Oh, man. You trigger the renegade option, the reporter ducks and the Buzz comes from off screen and decks her.

"I've had enough of you spreading lies about Commander Shepard"

 

[hateradio]

Above the shoulder, notice the teeth? Never realized it while playing. Pretty fucked up.

They should have capitalized on the horrendous aspect of husk-ization, too bad they really didn't outside of the Collector's base.

 

[Karl2177]

I swear, ME2 squandered so much potential in exploring the dark underbelly of the ME universe.

I don't think they could have crammed that much more into ME2 personally. I would love to see more places like Omega, but I really don't know how they could have done it. ME3 had some good opportunities to do it as well, like the rumored "Take Back Omega" DLC.

 

[King of the Potato People]

I wish they did something better with Udina. He was always a prick, but an understandable one, that’s until he teamed up with the monstrous Cerberus troops. I understand it was suppose to be an act of desperation to rally control over the citadel in a time of war, but c’mon Udina cannot be that stupid. He should have had an idea of how unstable Cerberus were becoming.

 

[rdrr gnr]

It's arbitrary but it fits. In the context of the universe 50,000 years is enough for a species to go from nomadic tribes to spacefaring, the latter accelerated by technology and relays left behind by the Reapers.

So we are to assume that there are dozens of unique quasi-sentient species in the galaxy that have not been discovered previously and are totally left alone by the Reaper attack? And that there are enough of species (at a particular evolutionary stage) to -- in essence -- "refill" the Citadel within that 50,000 time period warranting a new wave of Reapers ad infinitum?

 

[Zeliard]

True, but then what would alert them to it if they did?

"Synthetics activated the Citadel this time? ...Shit."

Yeah it's kinda goofy with the Catalyst. I've said before that he doesn't really make sense when you look at ME1, since the writers hadn't thought him up yet, probably. It was somehow necessary for Sovereign to signal the rest of the Reaper fleet - from the CITADEL no less - when you figure that the Catalyst could have fairly easily done it himself given that he is the living Citadel.

Somewhat unrelated, but one of my favourite things about Torment was that you often had dialogue options for the exact same words, but one would be truthful and the other would be a lie. What was it?

- Yes, I'll do this
- Yes, I'll do this (lie)
- Nope, fuck off
- I'll consider it

Man. That game was really well designed and written.

Oh yeah, tons of this. Sometimes you'll get several Truth options, sometimes Lies, often mixed together, Bluffs, etc, totally new dialogue options depending on who else you talk to, what you do, etc. Crazy amount of variation. And of course, this:

http://h12.abload.de/img/unbenannt3k79d.png

 

[Patryn]

Oh, hey. Looks like Kotaku has posted another thing on the ending controversy. Guess what? Once again they push the idea that people are angry because it's not happy enough.

Goddamn journalists, do your job at some point, please?

And, no, I'm not going to bother with a link.

 

[WanderingWind]

I wish they did something better with Udina. He was always a prick, but an understandable one, that’s until he teamed up with the monstrous Cerberus troops. I understand it was suppose to be an act of desperation to rally control over the citadel in a time of war, but c’mon Udina cannot be that stupid. He should have had an idea of how unstable Cerberus were becoming.

Eh. I think they just figured people wanted to cap him.

I honestly think making Udina and TIM indoctrinated really ruined some of the subtlety of the series. Udina was always a prick, but he was generally on your side. TIM was a shithead who deserved to die, but on his own merits, not based on the fact that he was being controlled.

 

[Jintor]

I like the throwaway email you later get which was like "Yeah he wanted to force the council to mobilise troops to save earth" but it didn't have enough leadup and was also stupid as fuck because what the hell Udina, what did you think Sheperd was doing?

 

[Derrick01]

Oh, hey. Looks like Kotaku has posted another thing on the ending controversy. Guess what? Once again they push the idea that people are angry because it's not happy enough.

Goddamn journalists, do your job at some point, please?

And, no, I'm not going to bother with a link.

The industry-wide embarrassment continues!

 

[Empty Space]

So we are to assume that there are dozens of unique quasi-sentient species in the galaxy that have not been discovered previously and are totally left alone by the Reaper attack? And that there are enough of species (at a particular evolutionary stage) to -- in essence -- "refill" the Citadel within that 50,000 time period warranting a new wave of Reapers ad infinitum.

They aren't undiscovered, but the council prevents people from interacting with them. At least this was the impression I got. After the Salarian's uplifted the Krogan's I imagine that the council became very careful about how they dealt with pre-flight races.

 

[Rufus]

The Salarians still thought of screwing with the Yahg though. "Winning the war before it has started", indeed.

Yeah it's kinda goofy with the Catalyst. I've said before that he doesn't really make sense when you look at ME1, since the writers hadn't thought him up yet, probably. It was somehow necessary for Sovereign to signal the rest of the Reaper fleet - from the CITADEL no less - when you figure that the Catalyst could have fairly easily done it himself giving that he is the living Citadel.

They really should have just cut the Catalyst conversation entirely, not just changed it to be more 'high level'.

To all future triple AAA developers who 'plan' a trilogy: actually do it. Actually lay out the plot for all three, even if there's a chance that the first game doesn't sell enough. Pretty please?

Oh yeah, tons of this. Sometimes you'll get several Truth options, sometimes Lies, often mixed together, Bluffs, etc, totally new dialogue options depending on who else you talk to, what you do, etc. Crazy amount of variation. And of course, this:

http://h12.abload.de/img/unbenannt3k79d.png

Ha. ...I'm never going to change my avatar.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

I wish they did something better with Udina. He was always a prick, but an understandable one, that’s until he teamed up with the monstrous Cerberus troops. I understand it was suppose to be an act of desperation to rally control over the citadel in a time of war, but c’mon Udina cannot be that stupid. He should have had an idea of how unstable Cerberus were becoming.

He was intrenched with Cerberus for a while, even had Bailey kill the Turian c-sec exec Pallin