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[Rapstah]

Everyone knows that the "clarification" is just going to be an email sent from Kai Leng to Shepard.

From: Admiral Steven Hackett

This isn't actually Hackett. For the record I liked the ending and you read too little sci-fi if you think it's bad, it's a sci-fi epic of monumental literal importance like 2001 or Dante's Inferno. My Shepard's arc is complete.

KL

 

[spekkeh]

The objectives in art are majority opinions, I think we have already established the majority opinion here, your reasoning is more circular than vent kid.

 

[Lime]

Seeing as you just called an opinion objective, I'd hazard a bet.

Ever heard of validity and/or soundness? The epistemic status of statements are not solely dichotomous, as in "a statement can only either objective or subjective". Knowledge works in quite different ways, you know.

From: Admiral Steven Hackett

This isn't actually Hackett. For the record I liked the ending and you read too little sci-fi if you think it's bad, it's a sci-fi epic of monumental literal importance like 2001 or Dante's Inferno. My Shepard's arc is complete.

KL

P.S.

Remember to buy more DLC for Mass Effect 3 plus the upcoming EA game, supported by Origin™

 

[Rapstah]

The objectives in art are majority opinions, I think we have already established the majority opinion here, your reasoning is more circular than vent kid.

So basically the ending is good because less people think it is?

 

[heliosRAzi]

From: Admiral Steven Hackett

This isn't actually Hackett. For the record I liked the ending and you read too little sci-fi if you think it's bad, it's a sci-fi epic of monumental literal importance like 2001 or Dante's Inferno. My Shepard's arc is complete.

KL

Just need an attached picture of Kai Leng eating your Coco Puffs

 

[Metroidvania]

Seeing as you just called an opinion objective, I'd hazard a bet.

Going off of what I personally would take as usual judgments for the quality of an ending, ME3 fails most of what describes an ending. (unless it's a twist-ending)

-Consistency (both with theme and characters)
-Resolution (Which we sorta got but only in terms of the immediate reaper threat, none of the greater universe)
-Not introducing new elements to suddenly make the main focus of the story (Again, this isn't a murder mystery with a twist)
-Catharsis (Kinda related to resolution, but having the player feel like he/she accomplished something. We did, but afterwards, our 'choice' is shown in such a lame fashion that it certainly doesn't provide a great level of catharsis)

It's a fine line on whether the ending itself is subjective or not. People can like a 'bad ending'. But it's true that the ending itself can't be viewed 100% objectively. However, that forces people to use standards of other works to judge new examples of 'art', and by those standards, ME3 isn't doing too well for itself ending-wise.

 

[LightofRohan]

The objectives in art are majority opinions, I think we have already established the majority opinion here, your reasoning is more circular than vent kid.

The ending had serious problems; Deus Ex Machinima, Aegresco Egresco and derived Capillus. And the writing followed certain Cauda points, which makes it contrived.

And an example of Deus Ex Machinima if you don't know what that is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

 

[heliosRAzi]

The ending had serious problems; Deus Ex Machinima, Aegresco Egresco and derived Capillus. And the writing followed certain Cauda points, which makes it contrived.

And an example of Deus Ex Machinima if you don't know what that is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

It's sounds like you are getting desperate. Your turn.

Going off of what I personally would take as usual judgments for the quality of an ending, ME3 fails most of what describes an ending. (unless it's a twist-ending)

Twist endings, when done well, can make the viewer go back and look for the clues. In the Sixth Sense, we go back and notice that no one other than the kid directly addresses Bruce Willis. In the Prestige

Spoiler

we can determine which twin is playing the part of Borden just by their attitude and personality

. In ME3, however, there is nothing to suggest that this twist was coming which has something to do with the thematic shift at the last second. We knew that they were gearing up for the dark energy plot, and there were clues in ME2 that suggests it.

 

[spekkeh]

The ending had serious problems; Deus Ex Machinima, Aegresco Egresco and derived Capillus. And the writing followed certain Cauda points, which makes it contrived.

And an example of Deus Ex Machinima if you don't know what that is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

Capillus?

Anyway I agree with what most of you are saying, but sometimes in art, people like something because it does things differently. No resolution as an interesting resolution. There are more movies that ended in such a fashion, The Departed, somebody already mentioned The Sopranos; this is very traditional in comparison.

Anyway, I hated the Deus Ex Machina too (machinima is something different , but found it largely inconsequential and not technically a Deus Ex Machina at all. As far as the writing goes, it was..somewhat weak, in the delivery mostly, I don't feel there were (that many) actual plotholes. At least it seems grossly exaggerated to me.

 

[RedRedSuit]

The vocal minority argument is so fucking terrible and needs to be put to death. The amount of people subscribing to a particular idea or position does not determine whether or not said idea or position is valid and sound.

Only within the games industry and press could such a fallacious argument as "It's only the vocal minority!" enter the discourse.

...plus it's not a minority.

I mean, it's plainly obvious very few people to have finished the game like the ending or even think it's OK.

Now, the stance that the ending ruins the series or the game or whatever, that is a different story.

 

[def sim]

Deus ex Machinima?

 

[hateradio]

Can we just agree on the real travesty of it all?

Community has really killed this thread.

Anyway I agree with what most of you are saying, but sometimes in art, people like something because it does things differently. No resolution as an interesting resolution. There are more movies that ended in such a fashion, The Departed, somebody already mentioned The Sopranos; this is very traditional in comparison.

The issue is that you're comparing something that was deliberately and meticulously planned like the end of the Sopranos to something that was hashed out in a short period by two people. You're elevating a sloppy ending, imo, into the realm of art that it only manages to poorly imitate.

To me, it's not deep or meaningful. The consequences of the choices are interesting to think about, but the end itself is not.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

No he doesnt have to justify anything to you - he liked the ending, some people did. Accept it. Seriously, i like how if someone likes the ending he gets ridiculed by everyone on here.

I just finished the game for a 2nd time and its fantastic. I put about 33 Hours in my first run, 27 on insanity and about 20 in multiplayer - its a great game and worth all the accolades it received rather then the extremely vocal minority who say its terrible because of the last 10 minutes.

Liking or disliking for a good, albeit personal, reason is valid.

Saying you like something and then, by implication, that everyone is just uneducated, is just insulting.

let's see that quote again:

Completed it last night. I liked the ending!
You guys haven't read enough sci-fi, so many stories are just left hanging, at least this had closure.

And if this is truly his 'argument' (despite stacking it with a fallacy), than it's still not a very good one. Closure through any means necessary (deus ex machine whose list of fallacies is too long to keep with) is not known as good writing, even among popular sci-fi.

Besides, using the singularity as 'space magic' may be what Ray Kurzweil claims it to be, but it is certainly not what the average sf-fan assumes it to be. You can't just sidestep such ideas and say "oh well". That's like giving Watchmen a different ending and thinking nothing will change, when it's clear that it changes everything.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Can we just agree on the real travesty of it all?

Community has really killed this thread.

I do not like the new Community thread classification. Bad decision imo.

 

[RedRedSuit]

to me it's exactly the same type of situation from Mass Effect 2, it was a vocal group that hated the game and would vocalize it.

Absolutely not. Ask the average guy to have finished ME2 -- he'll say he liked or loved it. Ask the average guy to have finished ME3 -- he'll say he disliked or hated the ending.

Besides, there's that surveymonkey page that shows exactly that.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Can we just agree on the real travesty of it all?

Community has really killed this thread.

Killing this thread gives a chance for new threads to exist.

 

[Rapstah]

I do not like the new Community thread classification. Bad decision imo.

But this thread is mostly the same people posting the same things.

 

[LightofRohan]

The issue is that you're comparing something that was deliberately and meticulously planned like the end of the Sopranos to something that was hashed out in a short period by two people. You're elevating a sloppy ending, imo, into the realm of art that it only manages to poorly imitate.

To me, it's not deep or meaningful. The consequences of the choices are interesting to think about, but the end itself is not.

I agree, but what about the cunae affect? That really infantia this entire plot.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Absolutely not. Ask the average guy to have finished ME2 -- he'll say he liked or loved it. Ask the average guy to have finished ME3 -- he'll say he disliked or hated the ending.

Besides, there's that surveymonkey page that shows exactly that.

And I don't remember any game or any ending that has had so many threads about it or related at once. We had the "main" thread, this iteration of the spoiler thread, the past iteration of the spoiler thread, the one that talked about the donations to Child's Play, the Forbes articles threads, and the thread about if people would be turned off by the ending controversy. Then there were threads talking about ending dlc and focused on another game, but most people assumed it was about ME3. If we are a minority, we are damn sure the loudest.

I do not like the new Community thread classification. Bad decision imo.

Time to start the Retake the Gaming Forum petition.

Whoever posts the news about PAX East should link this thread.

 

[hateradio]

I agree, but what about the cunae affect? That really infantia this entire plot.

What? What's a cradle affect?

But this thread is mostly the same people posting the same things.

But we want to be an open community, not a gated community that resides far and away from the slums of the general gaming section.

 

[def sim]

There was another thread before this? Ah geez you guys are nuts

 

[The Elite]

I for one would like some input on why the ending is "good"

Feel free to tell me to fuck off because it's too deep for me, but who knows, maybe you could prove to me that it is good and I'm just overreacting.

To me, the only way this ending is even tolerable is if you think Mass Effect is great because of Shepard. If it's just Shepard's story to you, and you don't give a shit about anyone else then yeah, I can see this ending being amazing to you. Those of us who have actually enjoyed the universe, our squadmates and the other species, this ending does nothing to address what happens to them.

I can probably overlook the stupid space child and his space magic because this shit happens in pretty much every sci-fi. What bothers me is we get no closure.

No one is going to be able to prove the ending is good to you. That's ridiculous. You don't like it and that's your call. I respect your opinion.

What's troubling in this thread is the reverse. If someone likes the ending they've either "not thought about it enough" or "are too dumb to see the plot holes."

I like the ending because it did a satisfying job of tying up the journey my Shepard started in Mass Effect 1. I didn't need to know all the little details of what the fallout was from destroying the Mass Relays. I'm content.

Was the ending perfect - no. They really needed a scene showing how the crew got on the Normandy and why they were fleeing but it wasn't a deal breaker for me as it was for some.

I wouldn't tell you to fuck off because you don't like the ending. That's your right. But I'd gladly tell someone to fuck off for telling me that I shouldn't like the ending because they didn't.

 

[heliosRAzi]

There was another thread before this? Ah geez you guys are nuts

Yeah, it hit 20K posts two weeks into March, I think.

No one is going to be able to prove the ending is good to you. That's ridiculous. You don't like it and that's your call. I respect your opinion.

What's troubling in this thread is the reverse. If someone likes the ending they've either "thought about it enough" or "are two dumb to see the plot holes."

I like the ending because it did a satisfying job of tying up the journey my Shepard started in Mass Effect 1. I didn't need to know all the little details of what the fallout was from destroying the Mass Relays. I'm content.

Was the ending perfect - no. They really needed a scene showing how the crew got on the Normandy and why they were fleeing but it wasn't a deal breaker for me as it was for some.

Some of us have been posting in these threads since the beginning of March and time and time again we see people come in and say that the endings are not too bad. Then they come back after thinking about it and they flat out hate it. EatChildren was the same way. Heavy was, too. That's why we tell folks to think about it. I haven't seen anyone say that someone is too dumb to see the plot holes.

You can like the ending, but you have to be prepared to defend your stance. If you are fine with plot holes, inconsistencies, thematic shifts, that's all well and good. I'll just say that you have bad taste.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Just coming to pay my respects to the dead. Rest in peace spoiler thread, you gave me many posts.

The ending had serious problems; Deus Ex Machinima, Aegresco Egresco and derived Capillus. And the writing followed certain Cauda points, which makes it contrived.

And an example of Deus Ex Machinima if you don't know what that is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

I agree, but what about the cunae affect? That really infantia this entire plot.

Can't believe people didn't realize you were trolling with made up stuff. Well played.

 

[Rapstah]

I agree, but what about the cunae affect? That really infantia this entire plot.

Quālitātem huius discussiōnis attollendos.

 

[impirius]

I think you guys will appreciate THIS.

Damn ending, this series is so good.

Thanks for sharing that... the one playthrough I did of ME3 was a full Paragon, so most of those clips were new to me.

 

[Hartt951]

Capillus?

Anyway I agree with what most of you are saying, but sometimes in art, people like something because it does things differently. No resolution as an interesting resolution. There are more movies that ended in such a fashion, The Departed, somebody already mentioned The Sopranos; this is very traditional in comparison.

Anyway, I hated the Deus Ex Machina too (machinima is something different , but found it largely inconsequential and not technically a Deus Ex Machina at all. As far as the writing goes, it was..somewhat weak, in the delivery mostly, I don't feel there were (that many) actual plotholes. At least it seems grossly exaggerated to me.

This thread says anything more than I could ever say about why I dislike the ending from a writing standpoint. It's a wonderful read: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

 

[RedRedSuit]

This thread says anything more than I could ever say about why I dislike the ending from a writing standpoint. It's a wonderful read: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

He makes a good point about how despite using a visual medium (games), ME3's ending TELLS rather than SHOWS. I made that same point yesterday in this thread, but I wasn't quite sure if that's considered "bad" by everyone.

In a film it certainly would be. In a game IMO it also is bad, and it undercuts all of http://badassdigest.com/2012/04/03/the-ending-of-mass-effect-3-is-spectacular/ (where it is clear the guy thought the ending is spectacular because of all the ideas introduced... except they were only spoken, not shown).

 

[flyover]

I think this thread title should appear in a new forum called Gaming Discmunity, but all direct links to it should be destroyed, so it takes a couple decades of clicking on intermediate links to get across the Internet to it.

 

[spekkeh]

For someone that doesn't like tropes, show don't tell is by far the biggest of them all.

Anyway, it's a good post and I can get behind most of what he says (beginning by saying it's not a deus ex machina is of course stroking me the right way). A couple of counter points though. Personally I didn't see the phyrric victory as coming out of nowhere, and in that sense I think it's good that the "almost dead" end sequence took twenty minutes, probably to set this up. Secondly, Shepard was a tragic hero / conflicted character; at least, that's what the dream sequences were about. At some point every Shepard has sacrificed many people to get where he is, no different from Mordin Solus (who stood by his choice for the genophage until the end). And lastly I did find that an enigmatic ending added to it. It may not have been something I wanted going in, and as such you can see it as a faux pas, but looking back I was quite okay with it.

 

[alysonwheel]

I was just skimming through someone's ideas for how the ending could have gone and it occurred to me that, with three gamesworth of maps and assets for inside the Citadel, it was a shame we didn't get to traverse any of it after riding the super fun happy beam. If they wanted to show piles and piles of mutilated corpses, wouldn't it have been more fun to use the Presidium map from ME1 and have the lake drained and filled with half-liquefied bodies?

 

[HadesGigas]

I was just skimming through someone's ideas for how the ending could have gone and it occurred to me that, with three gamesworth of maps and assets for inside the Citadel, it was a shame we didn't get to traverse any of it after riding the super fun happy beam. If they wanted to show piles and piles of mutilated corpses, wouldn't it have been more fun to use the Presidium map from ME1 and have the lake drained and filled with half-liquefied bodies?

Not sure "fun" would be the right word for a pool of human juice...

But yeah for as much as people were talking about how nice the Citidel was in this game, It still feels pretty tiny and underdeveloped to me. I still liked the ME1 version best.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Not sure "fun" would be the right word for a pool of human juice...

But yeah for as much as people were talking about how nice the Xitidel was in this game, It still feels pretty tiny and underdeveloped to me. I still liked the ME1 version best.

A game where you play as Garrus as a C-Sec officer would help flesh it out. Have it be an open world with several hubs like Deux Ex.

 

[hateradio]

I was just skimming through someone's ideas for how the ending could have gone and it occurred to me that, with three gamesworth of maps and assets for inside the Citadel, it was a shame we didn't get to traverse any of it after riding the super fun happy beam. If they wanted to show piles and piles of mutilated corpses, wouldn't it have been more fun to use the Presidium map from ME1 and have the lake drained and filled with half-liquefied bodies?

I think it's because they didn't know what to showcase.

The art book mentions a location (who knows if it's in the Citadel or Cerberus's base) that was to take place before confronting (possibly a boss fight with) TIM. It looks like the final area in the game.

I imagine they decided to take that concept and just put it in the Citadel instead. The dead bodies are Cerberus agents.

 

[HadesGigas]

A game where you play as Garrus as a C-Sec officer would help flesh it out. Have it be an open world with several hubs like Deux Ex.

Like Prey 2 but on the Citidel and not cancelled.

 

[Zomba13]

Like Prey 2 but on the Citidel and not cancelled.

Just set it during the 2 years Shep was dead. Garrus has the training (tutorial) on the citadel (spectre training) then goes to Omega for the main game. Catching bad guys and being a badass.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I was just skimming through someone's ideas for how the ending could have gone and it occurred to me that, with three gamesworth of maps and assets for inside the Citadel, it was a shame we didn't get to traverse any of it after riding the super fun happy beam. If they wanted to show piles and piles of mutilated corpses, wouldn't it have been more fun to use the Presidium map from ME1 and have the lake drained and filled with half-liquefied bodies?

You know, I have to say I was very much looking forward to fighting through the Citadel to get to the Reapers and had geared myself up for what I felt could have been amazing finish. Part of the reason the ending felt like such a let down for me was that that didn't take place. I thought that there could have been some very cool emotional moments as you trekked through the Citadel one last time and you saw what had become of the place.

I also half expected the Keepers to play some role in the final conflict as well.

Alas, it didn't happen and here we are.

 

[rozay]

You know, I have to say I was very much looking forward to fighting through the Citadel to get to the Reapers and had geared myself up for what I felt could have been amazing finish. Part of the reason the ending felt like such a let down for me was that that didn't take place. I thought that there could have been some very cool emotional moments as you trekked through the Citadel one last time and you saw what had become of the place.

I also half expected the Keepers to play some role in the final conflict as well.

Alas, it didn't happen and here we are.

Especially after that video clip in LOTSB.

 

[Lifejumper]

Michael Gamble
‏@GambleMike
Great meetings with @CaseyDHudson today. Really excited for the next few days. A couple big things to talk about.

https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187342003795804160

Interesting....

 

[Patryn]

Michael Gamble
‏@GambleMike
Great meetings with @CaseyDHudson today. Really excited for the next few days. A couple big things to talk about.

https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187342003795804160

Interesting....

PAX East. Probably going over what he can and cannot say. Keep in mind, Gamble's on the panel.

 

[DTKT]

Take back Omega DLC.

1800 MS space dollars.

Adds 200 War assets. Minimal dialogue, no choices in dialogue, everything is automated, 95% combat with Cerberus troops. No new enemies, 1 new weapon and 1 new upgrade. 2 different levels.

Eat it up.

 

[rozay]

Michael Gamble
‏@GambleMike
Great meetings with @CaseyDHudson today. Really excited for the next few days. A couple big things to talk about.

https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187342003795804160

Interesting....

lol fuck this guy

let's hear it from Hudson himself if he ever decides to come out of his hideyhole

Take back Omega DLC.

1800 MS space dollars.

Adds 200 War assets. Minimal dialogue, no choices in dialogue, everything is automated, 95% combat with Cerberus troops. No new enemies, 1 new weapon and 1 new upgrade. 2 different levels.

Eat it up.

I almost see no point in buying this and instead just watching it on youtube if all it's going to do is add a static number to the endgame

 

[Lime]

Michael Gamble
‏@GambleMike
Great meetings with @CaseyDHudson today. Really excited for the next few days. A couple big things to talk about.

https://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/187342003795804160

Interesting....

I imagine the meeting went like this:

Hudson: Okay, so when you go to PAX, you really need to restore the Bioware brand.
Gamble: Yes, got it!
Hudson: Now, what do you say when those shithea- I mean fans ask us about the ending?
Gamble: That they're entitled?
Hudson: Yes, and...?
Gamble: ...and that they should look forward to the Omega DLC, because it provides 20 new war assets!
Hudson: Exactly. Now roll up a joint and call Mac in here. We need to come up with new ideas for more pre-ending DLC!...And tell that fuckhead Chris Priestly that he should ban 20 random users on BSN from their Origin accounts, while you're at it.

 

[Patryn]

lol fuck this guy

let's hear it from Hudson himself if he ever decides to come out of his hideyhole
I almost see no point in buying this and instead just watching it on youtube if all it's going to do is add a static number to the endgame

What else can any pre-ending DLC do?

That'll be about the experience of playing it, not the reward.

Personally I'd say it'd be worth at least 300 War Assets, though.

 

[Zomba13]

Take back Omega DLC.

1800 MS space dollars.

Adds 200 War assets. Minimal dialogue, no choices in dialogue, everything is automated, 95% combat with Cerberus troops. No new enemies, 1 new weapon and 1 new upgrade. 2 different levels.

Eat it up.

Maybe when we're done we can visit Aria on Omega and do some fetch quests! Or the final choice is to blow up Omega to stop Cerberus having it or Giving Omega to Aria! Or something else that means fuck all!

 

[rozay]

The leak from last year mentions a mission where you have to retrieve a ship from beyond the Omega-4 relay, would be nice if Collectors or whatever those weird reaper enemies in aria's comics are show up.

Spoiler

still won't buy it

 

[heliosRAzi]

Shepard was a tragic hero / conflicted character; at least, that's what the dream sequences were about. At some point every Shepard has sacrificed many people to get where he is.

I disagree. Shepard is not a tragic hero and does not have a fatal flaw. My Shep wouldn't give a rat's ass for that kid so those dream sequences annoyed me. Really, if they hadn't used the kid and instead used those who have died under your command, it would have worked a lot better.

 

[Myomoto]

I don't care the slightest about any pre-ending dlc, seeing as whatever transpires during it will just end up being invalidated by the stories conclusion.

 

[Confidence Man]

Replaying ME2 and realized that planet you go to for Zaeed's mission looks almost exactly like the planet the Normandy ends up on. Same two planets in the sky, same vegetation, waterfalls, etc..

 

[rozay]

Replaying ME2 and realized that planet you go to for Zaeed's mission looks almost exactly like the planet the Normandy ends up on. Same two planets in the sky, same vegetation, waterfalls, etc..

probably just reused assets