HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Which is why they got cupcakes right..?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Which is why they got cupcakes right..?
It was a sarcastic gesture in the form of cheap cakes? I'd say it's one of those passive aggressive thing that angry individual does. And look what happened to the cupcakes. Everytime the fans trying to do something relatively nice, they just got a spit in the face. Yeah, I think whatever happens at PAX will determine how the fans treat Bioware in the future.
LightofRohan
Member
I've been reading some of there tweets and it seems really disconnected between a DLC announcement and the ending discussion. So I think they'll show their first DLC (Taking back Omega) and then at the end have a brief discussion about the ending and what they want to do with it ect. And then Q&A w/ no ending questions.
Then they hand out 400 rgb cupcakes and we have that awkward moment where we don't want to eat them, cause we know they are poisoned. And bioware knows it as well. Doors lock. Only one color is poison. We have to choose the right one.
They'll pretend like the ending never even happened, just like some of their fans want.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
The one thing I like about these OT threads is seeing a late comer seeing the ending for the first time and then having people welcome him into the fold like that scene from Fight Club where Edward Norton is embraced by Meatloaf and cries into his huge man tits.
Empty Space
Member
They have to know better then to do this right? The complete shit storm that would occur would be unimaginable.
HadesGigas
Member
This had closure?
I guess in a basic "reapers aren't the problem anymore" way, sure.
Judging from their PR responses and their complete antagonization of any critic and customers, I would guess Bioware simply doesn't know better.
Jake Tower
Banned
I am glad that you enjoyed the ending, but I would argue that there is little closure to be had. To sum up the basic points of contention in this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E
- Relays are destroyed either destroying every solar system with a relay, or merely ceasing star travel stranding the galactic fleet in Earth's orbit where, many with starve (Turians and Quarians) and the lack of any resources on Earth means likely infighting. Ultimately we don't know what the effect of the relay explosion is, but all options are grim.
- Your crew is whisked away (seemingly out of character) to some random planet. Again, Tali and Garrus will starve once the Normandy's supplies run out. Ultimately we don't know what happens to any of the crew (aka the main cast of the series).
HadesGigas
Member
No, the relays didn't destroy the star systems, but it isolated them all. Sol System being the worst off, since that's where you just gathered and stranded the largest fleet in the known history of the universe.
WrenchNinja
Member
His entry on the "evitable conflict" is such a great read. Systematic breakdown of why the organics vs. synthetics BS doesn't work at all.
Empty Space
Member
:lol I can't stop laughing after reading this. I guess different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, he has some gems on his blog. Aside from a few disagreements I have with some of his positions (comment guidelines, liking C.S. Lewis and YA Literature) he seems like an insightful guy. He also has a nice piece on his alternate blog about "reporting" science to the masses and how often it is poorly done. Nothing irks me more than someone who doesn't understand the basics of a scientific paper.
Slackbladder
Member
I had a thought. If the Reapers "reap" all advanced civilisations (to stop them from making AI that will destroy them) and leave others alone to continue the cycle, who and where are these other, lower civilisations/species? I presume all the Mass Relays have been found and pretty much all the habitable planets discovered so where are these species that the Reapers will let evolve? Does the Codex mention any?
Also, as Ilos was utterly destroyed and made uninhabitable from Reaper attack it is reasonable to assume Earth, Palavan etc would have the same fate. As there is only a finite number of habitable worlds in the galaxy (and certainly worlds with an adjacent Mass Relay), if the Reapers continue wiping out planets every cycle eventually there'd be none left for organics to live on.
To be honest I doubt the writers considered any of this (I don't think they considered the outcome of their ending at all). But that's the problem with the ending, it leaves you scratching your head trying to make sense of this. Of course not every game player is going to care or have any interest making sense of the ending. But those that do, and they seem to be the majority, are left unfulfilled and disappointed. Not the best way to end a game.
Personally I would have had Shepard have one choice, die at the end, the Earth be destroyed if the EMS was too low, have the Citadel not explode but send out a beam that targets all Reapers and destroys them and then targets the relays that then destroy any Reapers in other systems. Oh, and the Relays don't blow up.
Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on the matter!
Also, as Ilos was utterly destroyed and made uninhabitable from Reaper attack it is reasonable to assume Earth, Palavan etc would have the same fate. As there is only a finite number of habitable worlds in the galaxy (and certainly worlds with an adjacent Mass Relay), if the Reapers continue wiping out planets every cycle eventually there'd be none left for organics to live on.
To be honest I doubt the writers considered any of this (I don't think they considered the outcome of their ending at all). But that's the problem with the ending, it leaves you scratching your head trying to make sense of this. Of course not every game player is going to care or have any interest making sense of the ending. But those that do, and they seem to be the majority, are left unfulfilled and disappointed. Not the best way to end a game.
Personally I would have had Shepard have one choice, die at the end, the Earth be destroyed if the EMS was too low, have the Citadel not explode but send out a beam that targets all Reapers and destroys them and then targets the relays that then destroy any Reapers in other systems. Oh, and the Relays don't blow up.
Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on the matter!
Tony Redgrave
Member
Apparently Drew Karpyshyn twitted something about the ending and said that even though they tweaked it a little the basic idea was what we got, that the dark energy plot was just a possibility and that the ending was always about "Reapers and Relays"
Jake Tower
Banned
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Yeah, the yahg are mentioned are such a race. It's sort of hinted that in terms of space travel, they at the dawn of their space age. There's also a mention in the Codex of the Raloi who only discovered their Mass Relay a few years before the Reaper invasion and in light of it, they have decided to destroy all their advanced satellites so they can appear as a pre-space civilization and be ignored by the Reapers.
HadesGigas
Member
The Yahg were spared by the Reapers in this cycle. The Raloi also might have been (they try to appear unadvanced in hopes the reapers leave them alone).
alysonwheel
Member
Which is sort of weird, since if they're roughly as advanced as we are now it'll only be a few hundred years before the reapers have to come trundling back into the galaxy, blowing their Inception horns and feeling all grouchy because they haven't had a good night's rest. Better to pulverise them now and make them into a surly yahg-reaper, surely?
HadesGigas
Member
Possibly.
I mean it's not like they'd have the benefit that humanity had of bumping into races like the asari and turians who can explain to them how FTL travel and mass relays work. They'd have to do it the same way the asari did, digging through ruins of the previous cycle over tens of thousands of years.
I'd imagine the reapers do a pretty good job destroying most remnants of advanced civilization before they hightail it back to darkspace too.
The Elite
BOSS
From what I gather, the Protheans dominated all of the other races. A dominating race will sometimes wipe out the structures/idols of the race they are assimilating; building over top of that.
That's why you see Prothean artifacts everywhere and nothing else. It would have been nice to find something that mentioned the other races though.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I doubt those will be civilized races any time soon. 50000 years isn't really all that much evolutionarily speaking. 50000 years ago, humans were just as human as they are now. If you brought a baby from that time and raised him now, it's doubtful you'd know the difference. So the next cycles will most likely be races they didn't know about, since they had the laws about not activating dormant long distance gates. (well not now that there won't be anymore cycles, and with the exploding mass relays...)
The galaxy is really big and I doubt they found all the planets with life. And there were a few planets in 2 that you'd find that showed evidence of ancient civilized life hundreds of thousands to millions of years ago destroyed by bombardment. Presumably the reapers.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Javik says Ilos was the ruins of a species from the cycle before the Protheans.
Phat Michael
Banned
Alright i need some help. im on the VERY last scene of my insanity run.
the bit after you are stumbling in slow motion to the last part and you have to shoot 3 x Husks to kill them (ive done that) then all of a sudden a marauder shows up.
he shoots you once - i shoot him about 4x in the head (his shields are almost down) then he shoots you again and its over - you cant cover/use powers or anything - i have NO idea what im supposed to do here.
On normal, he wasnt there. I cant believe in the insanity run i survived the entire huge battles in london with banshees etc but im dying on this very last bit which i assume is NOT supposed to be difficult?
the bit after you are stumbling in slow motion to the last part and you have to shoot 3 x Husks to kill them (ive done that) then all of a sudden a marauder shows up.
he shoots you once - i shoot him about 4x in the head (his shields are almost down) then he shoots you again and its over - you cant cover/use powers or anything - i have NO idea what im supposed to do here.
On normal, he wasnt there. I cant believe in the insanity run i survived the entire huge battles in london with banshees etc but im dying on this very last bit which i assume is NOT supposed to be difficult?
If they don't stream it, I'll probably be at the PAX panel and can fill the thread on what happens. If I can get in... I actually want to go to the Dragon Age panel more, because I think it'll be more productive. Also, I'm almost beyond caring about Mass Effect at this point.
Hopefully the line doesn't fill in between.
Hopefully the line doesn't fill in between.
Phat Michael
Banned
OH FOR FUCK SAKE!
i beat him (marauder shields final guy) after 15 tries on insanity - and the fucking game crashes! for fuck sake this is just killing me. so now i have to try and do the same fucking boring disgusting last part AGAIN because it crashed.
i beat him (marauder shields final guy) after 15 tries on insanity - and the fucking game crashes! for fuck sake this is just killing me. so now i have to try and do the same fucking boring disgusting last part AGAIN because it crashed.
j0hnny_385
Member
what's the tactic to beat him on Insanity, anyway? considering it's all slow-mo and your pretty much motionless?
No like Marauder Shields is an asshole in insanity, took me at least 10 times, the damn pistol I had had a HUGE recoil
heliosRAzi
Banned
This guy might be a troll, but whatever.
I read a lot of sci-fi, but this didn't have closure plus it decided to have a thematic shift at the very, very end for no reason. I don't understand why people keep bringing up sci-fi as if it is an argument. There are lots of movies, books, anime, tv shows, comics that are science fiction but provide closure and stick to their themes.
I read a lot of sci-fi, but this didn't have closure plus it decided to have a thematic shift at the very, very end for no reason. I don't understand why people keep bringing up sci-fi as if it is an argument. There are lots of movies, books, anime, tv shows, comics that are science fiction but provide closure and stick to their themes.
Because in the Arrival DLC, we are shown what happens when a relay is destroyed: it takes out an entire star system. Even if you didn't play the Arrival, this is still canon. It is even mentioned in the codex of ME3. Now, some people think that the relays were safely destroyed, but it goes against everything we know about the relays. Yes, I know about "space magic" but, and this is one of the failings Bioware had with the ending, if you establish rules in your universe (when a relay is destroyed, it goes supernova) and then something breaks that rule (the relays in the end blow up, but don't go supernova), it should be explained, or else it just comes off as an ass pull.
Phat Michael
Banned
yeah i found the best way to do it was NOT use LT to target him, just fire normally. finally finished it on insanity. gonna give ME2 another go now..
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I've read a shit-ton of Science Fiction over the years and that has nothing to do with this. No one expected everything to be sewn up nice and neat, but what we got is kind of insulting to fans on a number of different levels.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I agree.
In Inception, an almost universally liked movie, we aren't given the answer for the end. Instead we are encouraged to come up with an answer we do like. Even then, we are still given closure.
On the game side, killer 7, a game that is vague, trippy, and extremely confusing, has more closure than ME3, but a lot of questions are still left unanswered.
We are fine with not being given the answers all of the time, but we do need closure.
That was a great read and when anyeone comes in here saying that they agree with the Catalyst, I'm just pasting that link.
If you look throughout the galaxy, there are a bunch of different planets that mention ruins from species that predated the protheans. It's just that the protheans seem to be the only ones that had any working technology survive, along with having taken over the galaxy. You never have to actually visit or scan any of these planets, but they're there all the same.
It makes sense, because the Protheans would have found and excavated any of the prior stuff, and, just like the current cycle did with the Protheans, probably build facilities around these ruins. Because they, just like the current cycle, thought that species created the relays and the Citadel. Javik even admits that the Protheans' greatest secret was that they built on the foundations of the prior dominant species (I forget the name he said).
So the Reapers would have had a chance to do a second wipe of them.
A little stuff DOES remain, because Liara does mention finding some vague traces of earlier civilizations in ME1 when the whole idea of cycles first comes up.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
I have decided that the dinosaurs were a space faring race and the reapers wiped them out, not an asteroid. Somewhere out there is a T-Rex-like Harbinger with Velociraptor collector ships. This will be the basis for the prequel games going forward.
Game of the generation!
heliosRAzi
Banned
Phat Michael
Banned
No he doesnt have to justify anything to you - he liked the ending, some people did. Accept it. Seriously, i like how if someone likes the ending he gets ridiculed by everyone on here.
I just finished the game for a 2nd time and its fantastic. I put about 33 Hours in my first run, 27 on insanity and about 20 in multiplayer - its a great game and worth all the accolades it received rather then the extremely vocal minority who say its terrible because of the last 10 minutes.
No, in the Arrival DLC, you are shown what happens when you slam an asteroid into a working Mass Relay. My first impression of the ending was that the effect of generating/transmitting the energy wave throughout the galaxy to stop the Reapers kept the Mass Relays from exploding. I highly doubt Bioware meant to destroy every major system with a Mass Relay so I make my conclusions based off of that assumption.
I see it as something similar to a nuclear bomb. You detonate it with the the fissible nuclear fuel (uranium/plutonium) inside and it goes nuclear. You take away the nuclear material and you just have a standard bomb. In this case the energy/fuel that would have been released in the supernova was instead used to create/transmit the energy wave (it has to come from somewhere).
Tony Redgrave
Member
So then you know..they should probably mention that? The only other time we see a relay get destroyed, it destroys a star system. We have nothing else to go off of to explain what happens when a relay is destroyed.
Instead, the only thing that answers why this wasn't the case is Space Magic.
heliosRAzi
Banned
He doesn't have to. I can't force him to, but instead of of just coming in here and saying that you liked the ending doesn't generate discussion. You are just posting a drive-by opinion and that's not doing much. You can like the ending, but give us reasons why. Sometimes, we just want to understand. Sometimes we just want to debate. I will say that to date, there has not been a satisfying explanation for why people think the ending is good.
And no one is saying that the entire game sucks because of the ending (although endings do matter.) Most people agree that the game is great up until the ending. And this is not a vocal minority, but a vocal majority. The ending is almost universally hated. In fact, we have many examples of people thinking that the ending couldn't be that bad, but then they finish the game and agree with us.
If you get mad at the supposed circle jerk that is going on within this thread, well tough titties. Either post to break it up or leave. Be prepared if you do want to post, however. Some of us has been through many cycles in this thread.
The codex explains what happens when a relay is destroyed: it goes supernova. And my argument is that we should default to the relays going supernova until we get told otherwise by Bioware. They established the rules for this universe and if they choose to break those rules, they must explain it or else it just seems like they are pulling stuff out of their asses.
It is a staple of any fictional universe: Bioware created this fantastic universe and established rules that govern it. They explained how the mass relays work, how mass effect work, and so on and so forth. They even started talking about blue-shifting emissions. They gave the basis of a somewhat hard sci-fi universe and it made the ME universe a lot more believable. If they start to disregard those rules, the universe they created will fall apart.
Sure, but I would love to actually hear why. I've grown a bit tired of the "you don't understand life", it's "2 deep 4 u" reasons.