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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

- J - D -

Member
I would honestly like to see Bioware try to defend some of these statements in retrospect.

It's amusing that for all Bioware's talk of integrity that Hudson and Walters don't have the integrity to stand up and admit that they flat-out lied.

They've already shown that they're masters of deflecting and dodging those kinds of questions. Furthermore, when the day comes when they need to hype their next project,
Hudson and crew will probably never have to defend themselves because today's game journos lack the balls to hammer them, a sentiment that's only proven itself after the whole gamers vs. critics debacle surrounding ME3.

I doubt many gamers hang on every one of Hudson's words. Enough time will pass until we won't care either. He hasn't reached Molyneux status yet.
 
Just finished the game and the only part I liked was how I killed Mordin. Outside of that the game was abhorrent; every other element of the story was poorly written, the fact assets ultimately meant jack shit made the experience seem like an utter waste of time and the final stage wore me out on the mediocre at best combat.

Am really glad I waited and didn't pay full price for this pos.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
I just finished it, I picked the 'control' option. I don't know what to say really, it just wasn't that satisfying. As clunky and heavy-handed as the 3 choices were, I could have accepted that if the consequences for each decision varied and were more fleshed out. In terms of what's conveyed to the player there is only a trivial difference between the 3 endings and that's what's annoying. Something like Deus Ex had similarly clunky choice at it's climax but the outcomes were all much more distinct.

I think the relays being destroyed works OK, primitive species discovery of them was crucial to the Reaper cycle so it makes sense that ending the cycle ends the relays. I don't know, the more I think about it the less bad it seems, I just wish there was something more after the credits rather than the absurd screen that flashes up talking about DLC. I thought that was a joke when I saw that image on GAF, it just feels like a slap in the face when it happens for real.
 

Dany

Banned
I just finished it, I picked the 'control' option. I don't know what to say really, it just wasn't that satisfying. As clunky and heavy-handed as the 3 choices were, I could have accepted that if the consequences for each decision varied and were more fleshed out. In terms of what's conveyed to the player there is only a trivial difference between the 3 endings and that's what's annoying. Something like Deus Ex had similarly clunky choice at it's climax but the outcomes were all much more distinct.

I think the relays being destroyed works OK, primitive species discovery of them was crucial to the Reaper cycle so it makes sense that ending the cycle ends the relays. I don't know, the more I think about it the less bad it seems, I just wish there was something more after the credits rather than the absurd screen that flashes up talking about DLC. I thought that was a joke when I saw that image on GAF, it just feels like a slap in the face when it happens for real.

Yeah, I agree with this, the pop up afterwards was just poor.

Just finished the game and the only part I liked was how I killed Mordin. Outside of that the game was abhorrent; every other element of the story was poorly written, the fact assets ultimately meant jack shit made the experience seem like an utter waste of time and the final stage wore me out on the mediocre at best combat.

Am really glad I waited and didn't pay full price for this pos.

Well, you played through the game, which isn't short. Has to be something you liked about it?
 
A bit late to the party here, but I've just beaten it a few minutes ago. I didn't think the ending was all that horrible, but reading that all the endings are pretty much the exact same thing given the gravity of what it was you were doing... yeah, that's incredibly lame. Going to watch the videos in the OP, read some editorials, and gather my thoughts.
 

rozay

Banned
Just finished going through the PAX stuff.

Does anyone working in Bioware's PR department or producing games understand what the term "honesty" means, or has EA erased it from their brain? $50 says they do just like the DA2 team did and "admit their flaws" in a stupid PR move next year to get fans who disliked their handling of this game back on the fence.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Not as good as the fisrt, but I liked how he told WTF girl to shut up. Also Miranda wants implants. :lol

Jame's voice was actually Kaiden's at the start.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Just finished going through the PAX stuff.

Does anyone working in Bioware's PR department or producing games understand what the term "honesty" means, or has EA erased it from their brain? $50 says they do just like the DA2 team did and "admit their flaws" in a stupid PR move next year to get fans who disliked their handling of this game back on the fence.

Yep.

More and more, this is what I'm thinking.

We'll get extended cutscenes fallout style after the current endings, along with Take back Omega.

Then, next summer, we'll finally start hearing Bioware's take on all this.

It is odd though. At least Mike Laidlaw was on the DA2 boards on the BSN defending his 'vision' or whatever.

There have been zero dev posts on ME3 to clarify the PR hype statement 'lies'/miscommunication, defending or explaining the endings, etc.

I lol'd when Stanley Woo posted "you guys may label them red green blue, but that is your own dumbing down of the ending, that's not how we see it".

Someone then linked that post to the ending files which are labelled londonred, londongreen, and londonblue in a demotivational poster.
 
Someone on SA asked Patrick Weekes questions at PAX:

General Battuta said:
:siren:possibly interesting new information here:siren:

Okay, here is what I asked Patrick Weekes, and his answers as best as I can remember them. I've paraphrased but I'm doing my best to stick to what he said rather than introduce any interpretation.

THESE ARE NOT DIRECT QUOTES.

-Is there still a setting to explore after the ending? Is everything ruined?

The setting is definitely not ruined. We still have a big, lively galaxy.

-Will long-distance superluminal travel still be possible post-Ending? (will Tali or Wrex or Garrus see their homeworlds again? Will everyone starve?)

Galactic civilization will rebuild. The mass relays were not necessary for interstellar flight. Remember, what does it say in the Codex about the speed of ships? That's right, 12 lightyears per (day? hour? minute?). And that's only the cruising speed, not the maximum speed.

People have never needed to research basic FTL improvements before because they have mass relays. With the relays gone, new technology will increase that speed. Additionally, the element zero cores of the dead/controlled Reapers can be used to improve FTL drives. :siren:Starflight will continue using conventional FTL.:siren:

-Why did Joker leave Shep behind?

Joker would never abandon Shep without a good reason. Hopefully this will be clear in the Expanded Cut.

-Why can EDI survive the Destroy ending?

We argued a lot about this, I said that she was made of Reapertech and should therefore be destroyed, but (unclear, don't remember - wish I'd been able to ask a followup as his response doesn't make much sense)

-Did anyone on the Citadel survive?

Yes. We would never, ever do anything that made the player feel, on replay, that it would be better for everyone on the Citadel if they just died. The Citadel has emergency shelters and kinetic barriers - even if it blows up, millions might survive. :siren: You should assume that everyone plot-important on the Citadel survived. :siren:

-Is it better for Kelly Chambers if we talk her into suicide?

No, see above.

-Who wrote the death of Joker's sister?

I did! We intentionally did not connect the dots. We were very interested to see how fast gamers figured it out.

-Whose idea was it to make the Rayya fall out of the sky if you destroy the Quarian fleet?

Someone in the audio department, it was brilliant.

-Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?

No, they didn't. (i'm paraphrasing here, please don't interpret this too hard) They overloaded, they didn't rupture. :siren:We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect. :siren:

(Mr. Weekes dropped a lot of hints that he really didn't like the ending. He also said something that was almost 100% verbatim from the Penny Arcade Forum post often attributed to him)

-Why did Legion pull a 180 from his Mass Effect 2 philosophy?

He and the Geth were backed into a corner. They'd been made a lot dumber by the attack on the Dyson swarm. There was no other choice for Geth survival.

-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?

Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen.

-Why didn't (X squadmate from ME2) return?

There was a very ugly month of development where we fought out who would return. We knew we had to have a smaller cast so we could fit in more squad banter. Eventually we decided to bring Garrus and Tali back, so they could be squadmates in all three games. We also knew we'd have Vega in order for new players to have someone dumber than they were.

I was very resentful of Vega at first because I thought he was taking a slot that could've gone to a ME2 character, but he grew on me.

-Why did EDI have cameltoe?

We don't get a lot of feedback from the art department but (unclear, wish I remembered this better :( )

Lots of discussion about how he was uncomfortable doing Pinocchio stories for both Legion and EDI because 'EDI was fine, she was an AI, she was cool - do we really need her to turn into Commander Data? We had seven seasons of Data, that was enough.'

-Why did you write Pinocchio stories for all the synthetic characters?

See above

-What was up with the Human Reaper in ME2? Why did it look so dumb?

We wanted to use the Suicide Mission to show several steps of the Reaper development process, from human reaper embryo all the way to cuttlefish. But the mission grew too complicated so it was cut for time.

Do the Reapers really only generate one capital ship per cycle? How do they ever break even?

Well, we never totally pinned that down. But this cycle was really anomalous. They don't normally take any capital-size Reaper losses at all.

-What was up with Kai Leng? How do you feel about him?

We really wanted to have a recurring antagonist for Shep, a 'Darth Maul' (his words). But I feel like there was some definite conflict between cutscene and gameplay there, and I think it's something we have to work on.

'He was a great antagonist in the books' :lol:

-Why did we only get top and bottom dialogue choices, no middle?

Part of it was resources. Part of it is that Mass Effect 3 is a war story and it's really hard for Shep to feel middling about the Reapers.

-How did YOU feel about the ending?

(I didn't ask this, but he seems to have gone to GREAT lengths to think ways around a lot of stuff the ending implied.)

Why no female (alien X?)

Resource limitations. They have a very strict budget for how many different characters they can use in a given area. Some are basically free - if you have human males you have Batarians because they're humans with funny heads, if you have human females you have asari, etc.

Where was Harbinger? Can we ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of him?

I definitely want more closure on Harbinger. That'd be hilarious. Stop punching yourself, Harbinger.

How did the Reapers storm the Citadel? Why didn't they shut down the relays as per their original plan once they had control?

Originally we planned to have a cutscene of Reapers taking over, Reaper monsters punching buttons, et cetera. But we cut it, partially for resource reasons and partly because it disrupted the pacing.

The Reapers didn't shut down the mass relays because the Keepers interfered with that. (I wish I could've asked a follow-up here, it doesn't make much sense.)

Why don't Ken and Gabby have more dialogue?

They actually have a bunch more on disk, but we somehow introduced a bug where their dialogue is tied to your approval level with Ash. If Ash has low approval, or isn't present, most of Ken and Gabby's dialogue won't play.



Things I wish I'd asked:

Why the damn Starchild?

What was up with the Stargazer? (He touched on the Stargazer once and pretty much said 'oh, yeah, the Stargazer.'

Again: NOT DIRECT QUOTES. These are NOT OFFICIAL BIOWARE STATEMENTS. Please don't fuck Patrick Weekes over by posting these as 'official BioWare PR' or whatever. Please feel free to ask me follow-up questions, as I definitely didn't cover the whole conversation with him.

My takeaway was: the epilogue DLC is probably going to do a lot of good and be pretty well written, and Patrick Weekes should've been lead writer on ME3.


Some of it's reasonable, some of it seems like they're stretching to say "what looked like it actually happened didn't, because of reasons that we didn't elaborate on."
 

Myomoto

Member
Just seems to confirm what we already know: The game was rushed/under budgeted and got shoved out the door as soon as it was 'good enough' to make money.
 
I rewatched the ending on Youtube, but I stopped after the last scene between Shepard and Anderson.

And I liked it. Ignorance? It's bliss.
 

Replicant

Member
So from what I can gather from the interview, Bioware didn't utilize their resources well (apart from ego running amok). Or rather, EA didn't let them to do so. I know the MP is separate from the SP but let's face it EA gave budget separate from the SP whereas it could have been spent on the SP.

Also, there's no excuse on spending time modelling Chobots' creepy face when they don't even have enough resources to do other things. Her space could have been given to a new cast members or someone from ME2.
 

- J - D -

Member
Weekes really should have been lead writer, but I'm willing to cut Walters some slack, because everything that went wrong with ME3 may have been attributed to the dev schedule. However, you gotta wonder if Weekes is covering for Hudson and Walters' asses with stuff he made up just to salve the aching hearts of fans. The stuff about FTL space travel post-relay destruction and the fate of the Citadel, was all of it brainstormed during this past month, in reaction to the backlash? It's too optimistic; it works out too well. If it's all backed up by lore, then why haven't hardcore fans mentioned it before?
 

Zomba13

Member
Weekes really should have been lead writer, but I'm willing to cut Walters some slack, because everything that went wrong with ME3 may have been attributed to the dev schedule. However, you gotta wonder if Weekes is covering for Hudson and Walters' asses with stuff he made up just to salve the aching hearts of fans. The stuff about FTL space travel post-relay destruction and the fate of the Citadel, was all of it brainstormed during this past month, in reaction to the backlash? It's too optimistic; it works out too well. If it's all backed up by lore, then why haven't hardcore fans mentioned it before?

I'm guessing the FTL and citadel stuff wasn't his own doing but higherups telling him to say that if anyone asks.
 

rozay

Banned
I know we all love Weekes's character writing, but how is that indicative of his ability to create an overarching story? I mean this in the nicest way possible, lead writer on a game like this isn't an easy job.
 

Fathead

Member
I don't remember reading anything concrete in the codex about the exact FTL speeds, other than this blurb about the mass relays:

This allows instantaneous transit between locations normally separated by years or even centuries using conventional FTL drives.
 

Digoman

Member
Most of that interview sounds like things they are just adding and retconing to try to "fix" the end without actually having to admit they screw up. Since they sticking with vent-god, there's no much else they can do.

The citadel thing for example: Wasn't there a tweet or something saying that "some people got out but for the others it was bad times"? Now not only the people survived the Reapers taking over, but also the explosions and possibly falling to the earth. Those are some strong kinetic barriers.
 

Shapingo

Member
So are the Yahg set up as the villians of the next game, because they are in the process of building their 1st interstellar spaceship? Also where were the Vorcha?
 

TheYanger

Member
Just finished the game and the only part I liked was how I killed Mordin. Outside of that the game was abhorrent; every other element of the story was poorly written, the fact assets ultimately meant jack shit made the experience seem like an utter waste of time and the final stage wore me out on the mediocre at best combat.

Am really glad I waited and didn't pay full price for this pos.

Fucking monster.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
So are the Yahg set up as the villians of the next game, because they are in the process of building their 1st interstellar spaceship? Also where were the Vorcha?
Although I wouldn't be surprised about ME4, I don't think I would expect it. Considering that this was supposed to be the end of Shep's story, and that any new ME games will take place before the end of ME3, a fourth installment seems out of place.
 

ShaneB

Member
Just seems to confirm what we already know: The game was rushed/under budgeted and got shoved out the door as soon as it was 'good enough' to make money.

This is exactly what I got out of that as well. His points are basically stuff was cut, lack of resources, etc etc.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
HOW THE SHIT DO I BEAT KAI LENG ON INSANITY M READY TO KILL MYSELF WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT.
 

Dany

Banned
I was an adept and I just paused to the power wheel every 2 seconds and ROLLED AROUND the entire stage. Liara/Javik took care of the Cerberus mercs.
 

Replicant

Member
HOW THE SHIT DO I BEAT KAI LENG ON INSANITY M READY TO KILL MYSELF WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT.

Which part? Inside TIM's office? Keep using EDI's decoy if you can to confuse him. Focus on the henchmen first and foremost, because they're the ones who'll thin down your health the most (translation: because Kai Leng is useless LOL). As for Kai Leng, you need a power that'll lower down his barrier or weapon with incendiary ammo or something similar. If you have bombs, keep throwing those at him + his henchmen to thin down the herd and to prevent his barrier from going back too much.

I'm just glad I'm done with Insanity. Worst parts: Grissom Academy before you get the Atlas and that last piece of shit Marauder.
 
So are the Yahg set up as the villians of the next game, because they are in the process of building their 1st interstellar spaceship? Also where were the Vorcha?

I think ME3 both suffered and got improved from having multiplayer designed the way it was.

I think they spent a lot of time designing the three groups of enemies, but then, the combat had been designed around it, and these are the only enemies the game could allow, SP or MP.

Personally, I was disappointed to have only three distinct groups of baddies, but I thought each group was well designed.
 

Dany

Banned
Personally, I was disappointed to have only three distinct groups of baddies, but I thought each group was well designed.


y4Dvk.png


fyXpz.png
 

exactly. The 'others' group, in particular, was mostly missed, because
a) there was no element of surprise anymore : you *knew* the enemy in each mission HAD to be cerberus, geth, or reaper. You start the rachni mission, you know it's going to be reapers. They try to set up tension, but a lot of it fails because of this.

b) there is no room to design a smaller group of enemies.
 

DTKT

Member
They could have easily used the Mercenaries faction from ME2. When you do the Aria mission, just add a line about some rogue Mercs working for Cerberus.

Bam, three new factions.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
So are the Yahg set up as the villians of the next game, because they are in the process of building their 1st interstellar spaceship? Also where were the Vorcha?

How? The yahg are new to the galactic community and barely have spaceflight and they are gonna be the main baddies? Cerberus was pushing it too far, that goes over the cliff at 120 mph.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
They could have easily used the Mercenaries faction from ME2. When you do the Aria mission, just add a line about some rogue Mercs working for Cerberus.

Bam, three new factions.

Sounds kinda lame. Also doesnt change the fact that ME3's enemy variety was poop.
 
Could have had more reaper variety. Surely a reaper elcor could be a formidable opponent. Maybe combine hanar and drell into one mutant tentacle ninja reaper since they're mainly from the same planet now.
 

Shapingo

Member
How? The yahg are new to the galactic community and barely have spaceflight and they are gonna be the main baddies? Cerberus was pushing it too far, that goes over the cliff at 120 mph.

You know the next installment doesn't have to take place a week later ;)

The Yahg were being uplifted by the Salarians, who knows what would happen if some gained as much wisdom as the shadow broker.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
You know the next installment doesn't have to take place a week later ;)

The Yahg were being uplifted by the Salarians, who knows what would happen if some gained as much wisdom as the shadow broker.

The community has to let them get anywhere. You cant just sneak a galactic threat.
 
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