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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Welp, it appears I may have guessed right about a possible July announcement, according to a recent Mike Gamble twitter post.
Now, to wait til July.
My devil's advocate says it's more Multiplayer DLC hooks, lol.
Now, to wait til July.
My devil's advocate says it's more Multiplayer DLC hooks, lol.
riceandbeans
Member
I hope not, else I'd lose more respect for Bioware than I already have. They couldn't fix the massive plot holes? Shit ending or not, that's the ending. Fans shouldn't dictate how a game should end or needs to be altered. They're the story tellers. Bad story tellers, but story tellers.
So are you saying attempting to better yourself or your creations is inherently wrong?
riceandbeans
Member
I'm saying have some balls and stand by your work, shit or not shit. If that was their direction, then that was their direction. I'd rather they clarify the existing ending and improve it through a better narrative than change it.
And that petition and cupcakes from angry gamers says otherwise.
Nothing, because it's a hologram. ಠ_ಠ
But your still changing it when you "clarify" and "improve". That's such a cop out argument. When you do something terrible, you can stand behind it in denial "LALALALA IT'S AMAZING", or you get back to the drawing board and you try to better.
If Bioware had any "balls" and respect left for their own legacy, they would make something coherent.
I think it takes more balls to admit you made a mistake and fix it. This whole bravado about direction is misguided anyway, there's no way to know if they themselves were even happy with the ending because no matter what they can't say they weren't for PR reasons. In my opinion sticking with your shitty work is the worst thing anyone could do. Imagine if a president made a terrible choice and decided to stick with it for 4 years because "well I made that choice once and now I've gotta have some balls and stick with it or I'll look weak." It's just dumb bravado and it gets everyone nowhere. Actually it's likely that it could have long term negative effects on Bioware if they don't, so it's in their best interest to but they know that to truly fix it would cost tens of millions in production and so they stick with the "artistic integrity" position.
HDgaming42
Member
I admit I'm LTTP on this one, but as far as I've read that ending is anything but "they". That ending is the brainchild of Casey Hudson, and wasn't vetted against any other input in any meaningful way.
(I've also read that forum post was "debunked", but then I read the debunking was simply a BioWare denial--what else would you expect of them? I've read a number of things that point to that writer's forum post as being true. No idea what the final "consensus" was, but it comes across as very genuine.)
Seems like Lucas syndrome to me--mistaking commercial success with creative genius. The more creative control Lucas exercised over the Star Wars saga, the shittier it became. I don't know anything about Casey Hudson, but if he indeed wrote the ending and it was not subject to the exact same scrutiny that the rest of the game was then you have your answer right there. And that's a failure of BioWare's to let that happen.
90% of that game is tight. Perhaps even more. I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would. The ending simply doesn't fit--it doesn't feel like the same people worked on it AT ALL.
So no--they're not the storytellers here. At least it seems the ending was anything but a collaborative effort. It is an abomination and should never have gotten past a second draft intact.
BioWare needs to man up, admit their creative genius might have swung and missed, and listen to their staff. I refuse to believe the internal team is happy with the way ME wrapped up. You'd have to be some kind of cool-aid drinking fanboy to choke that shit down and smile.
The internet has already written them out of this deep, dark hole. I suggest they embrace the IT and move forward.
The forum post was "debunked" by the community manager who also told forum goers that the Kasumi wasn't a character in ME2 and a listing for the prothean DLC on origin back in June 2011 was a typo, amongst other similar statements
It was Patrick Weekes's account, that is a fact.
It was Patrick Weekes's account, that is a fact.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
You don't seem to fathom that any change to a video is already an alteration.
"Extended ending" or "director's cut" means altering the product, but in this particular case specifically the ending.
This isn't a rocket science concept.
HDgaming42
Member
Amen. And besides, how many times have you watched a "director's cut" and preferred the original ending? For me, most director's cut's end up being a disappointment--and I'll tell you why.
Sometimes director's are forced to alter their ending because of time constraints, or studio pressure after test screenings. In these cases, director's cuts can be good, restoring an original vision that would have fit the story better but was altered for a non-artistic reason, but I find them to be in the minority.
In many cases during the edit it can turn out that the director's original ending simply doesn't work with the story. Either the editor or the producer will make changes to better suit the movie as a whole. If the director isn't an ego-maniac and is on good terms with his editor, he'll be wise and listen to their input. This is when you get the best end product.
In the case of Mass Effect 3 we already got the director's cut and it sucked--BECAUSE it was the director's cut. He was too close to the product, and too cock-sure of his creative genius. If you've ever watched the Phantom Edit you'll recall the scene where the editor is trying to explain to Lucas how the pacing is all fucked up and needs fixing. It's a gentle push, but Lucas won't hear of it because he's a fucking genius. That scene made it into the special features because of an editor--and I'm sure it was a silent form of protest, screaming "We tried!! OMG I'm so sorry, we tried!!!"
So screw the director's cut--we've already got that. I want the real product--the one not dripping with hubris.
riceandbeans
Member
I have no problem with that. My issue is with potential fan input directing the ending to smooth things over. That's not story telling, that's pandering. I'm not against extending the ending and it does seem like Bioware knows they fucked up with ending and possibly weren't happy with it. There's a ton of shit to fix. If they want to further elaborate on the ending, put in things they weren't able to because of time constraints, etc. then that's cool.
And no, this game isn't a directors cut at all. If anything, it needs a directors cut to put back in all the stuff they took out like the final battle featuring Jacob and Jack and the fucking Prothean.
HDgaming42
Member
It all depends on what input they'd be listening to. "Deliver on your promises" isn't an unreasonable request. Full-fulling that request wouldn't be pandering.
I don't think anyone's asking for a re-write happy ending here (and if they are--I'm in agreement--ignore them); most people want an ending that makes sense and doesn't destroy the story that came before it. They want an ending that is given as much creative scrutiny as the rest of the series.
And yet some people still maintain it was "debunked"? Absolutely astounding. Have none of these people personally worked for a company that has had to do damage control? Spin a message?
Escape Goat
Member
Is my PS3 broken? It takes FOREVER for the game to load after you hit start. It does its loading/communicating, checking save data and then it hangs on contacting EA servers. I thought it might just be my network but even the check save data is taking a minute or more.
the worrying thing is that some of the statements from PAX indicated that we would be getting a much happier ending than the original (rebuilding the relays, friends didn't die etc) we will just have to wait and see
For those of you interested, I found a list of plot points from the leaked beta script that were altered or removed completely in the game. Original post from: http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mas...ME3-that-were-cut-or-modified-12336528-1.html
Pretty cool stuff. Looks like Kai Leng was a lot more menacing, instead of the wussy ninja dude we got in the finished game.
Pretty cool stuff. Looks like Kai Leng was a lot more menacing, instead of the wussy ninja dude we got in the finished game.
hahahaha
and yeah, if you listen to the E3 demo of sur'kesh, when they're heading up the stairs towards where Kirrahe was in the final game, shepard's dialogue regarding Cerberus was "they're indoctrinated, they're capable of anything." Released version took out the "they're indoctrinated" bit. Overall it sounds like their initial game plans (and even the paired down version) was just too ambitious to complete in a 2 year period
I think it would've been kinda lame to have Javik be a central part of the plot introduced in ME3 though (not that what we got wasn't lame as well)
Joe Molotov
Member
Would have been nice.
PinkCrayon
Member
Most of that sounds pretty good.
Escape Goat
Member
So Omega DLC is pretty much guaranteed at this point?
Typographenia
Member
That would have been freaking awesome. : (
EmCeeGramr
Member
I definitely remember reading these in the leaked script (especially killing the Primarch's son and Thane killing Udina) and being very disappointed when they weren't in the final game.
Bornstellar
Member
I'm pretty happy that I got to kill Udina in the final game.
Jake Tower
Banned
Inspired by the E3 gif thread
I closed my eyes a felt a sense of satisfaction after that moment. I relished that trigger pull...heh...game could have ended there.
It practically feels like it.
Live Free or Die
Banned
You know what? After Aria said TIM took over Omega I was like "F yeah, the next mission is probably to take back Omega!" boy was I wrong. :-( It seems kind of pointless to me now to have that as DLC.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I wouldn't say it is "guaranteed" at this point. The first hurdle Bioware have to overcome is the extreme lack of interest they created in their singleplayer game. I imagine they will be looking very closely at the reaction and numbers (downloads) of the EC to determine whether it is worth making any more single player DLC. After all if you are putting "free" DLC out there and no one is bothering with it then they are hardly likely to leap at the chance of snapping up paid DLC.
riceandbeans
Member
Bioware fans will still probably buy it regardless. They'll find a way to sell their DLC either way, even if it means messing with the ending more. After Omega, I'm expecting some after-story DLC like fighting your way through the mysterious jungle or taking on rouge Cerberus agents.
I bet if they release the Omega DLC it'll be the last single player content of ME3 and they'll only release it because it's already been worked on. Bioware/EA wants to wipe their hands clean of this thing as soon as humanely possible and move on to something else that'll hopefully garner them goodwill/sales. It's what I would do if I colossally fucked something up this badly.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
what about the 'dream' thing, was that actually in there or did someone just make that up?
(never read the first leak myself. The second already has the 'new' ending)
Because honestly, I can't see any other reason why those 'kid burning dreams' are even in the game. With the new ending they don't make any sense.
HDgaming42
Member
The only people left they'll be able to sell single player content to is Talimancers. Everyone else has enough of a grounding in reality to realize this franchise is ruined.
I am slowly realizing this is not going to get better, and that anything they do from this point onward is just going to make things worse. I feel like I need to kill my love of Mass Effect to move on.
You know in I Am Legend when he's holding his dog?
When it becomes increasingly clear that his dog has become a zombie and no matter what he does his dog is gone for good? The tears he sheds as he slowly chokes the life out of the abomination his dog has become?
And crying.
Spoiler Link for I am Legend/farewell to Mass Effect.
Typographenia
Member
Wait, they're selling Tali DLC? When and where can I buy it?
ToLateToLove
Member
Just finished the game, apparently got the "worst" ending. Yeah, pretty lackluster. While the game is good it felt like a disappointment considering the first two games. Where did the exploration go? It's a corridor tps.. there's the Citadel and then there's "dungeons". Meh..
I just completed the game only 30 minutes ago.
For me, I tend not to over analyze video game stories and simply enjoy them for what they are. What I love about ME universe is how fleshed out it is. Everything seems to have a history and back story, the races are interesting and the conflicts and politics that go along with it is excellent.
The only thing I knew going into this game was the ending was garbage but I somewhat enjoyed it to a degree. It was very deus ex like and I think that is a problem. The notion that at the very end of the game your given 3 very arbitrary choices that for the most part play out the exact same way is shitty. I think the reason most people are pissed off is the ending did very little to show the resolution of other races and for a game that goes into such detail about each one seems kinda off.
I would like to see how my "choices" from the other games effect the story but something tells me it makes little difference. I am willing to give Bioware a break though on this issue, given the scope and ambition of the game it would be next to impossible to have every choice have a meaningful impact on the gameplay and story. From what I could gather, most of the choices made from the first 2 games result in different lines of dialogue from NPC. Very disappointing but understandable. I quickly realized this generation that as costs increase, games become more streamlined where "choices" made by players are scripted in the long run.
The real 'RPG' comes from the type of character you play as. I played as a vanguard, charging enemies with a shotgun is satisfying. I'm thinking another play through will be infiltrator.
Overall I feel they did a good job wrapping up the stories of your companions. I thought they handled Mordin the best along with Wrex. I thought the death of Legion to be pretty stupid and unnecessary. I was also unhappy with how Thane died.
I enjoyed the overall experience.
For me, I tend not to over analyze video game stories and simply enjoy them for what they are. What I love about ME universe is how fleshed out it is. Everything seems to have a history and back story, the races are interesting and the conflicts and politics that go along with it is excellent.
The only thing I knew going into this game was the ending was garbage but I somewhat enjoyed it to a degree. It was very deus ex like and I think that is a problem. The notion that at the very end of the game your given 3 very arbitrary choices that for the most part play out the exact same way is shitty. I think the reason most people are pissed off is the ending did very little to show the resolution of other races and for a game that goes into such detail about each one seems kinda off.
I would like to see how my "choices" from the other games effect the story but something tells me it makes little difference. I am willing to give Bioware a break though on this issue, given the scope and ambition of the game it would be next to impossible to have every choice have a meaningful impact on the gameplay and story. From what I could gather, most of the choices made from the first 2 games result in different lines of dialogue from NPC. Very disappointing but understandable. I quickly realized this generation that as costs increase, games become more streamlined where "choices" made by players are scripted in the long run.
The real 'RPG' comes from the type of character you play as. I played as a vanguard, charging enemies with a shotgun is satisfying. I'm thinking another play through will be infiltrator.
Overall I feel they did a good job wrapping up the stories of your companions. I thought they handled Mordin the best along with Wrex. I thought the death of Legion to be pretty stupid and unnecessary. I was also unhappy with how Thane died.
I enjoyed the overall experience.
The developed this game in half the time they needed to develop the other games. It was rushed. Had it not been rushed, they could've made sure your choices affected the game =\
Complistic
Member
I would have agreed with this until they decided to leave all your companions for dead on a random planet for literally no reason at all.
HDgaming42
Member
*applause*
I get to thinking about the way "the internet" forms a consensus on things...
Ask the internet what the greatest game of all time was and you'll get OoT as a general common answer.
Ten years from now, ask the internet what the worst ending of all time was in a game... How does Bioware want that to play out? That DLC better change lives.
Ask the internet what the greatest game of all time was and you'll get OoT as a general common answer.
Ten years from now, ask the internet what the worst ending of all time was in a game... How does Bioware want that to play out? That DLC better change lives.
HDgaming42
Member
For a very long time I think Monkey Island 2 held the honor of worst received ending. This will EASILY eclipse that...I can't think of anything stinkier...
Remember the rage at the Halo 2 cliffhanger ending? I STILL have a grudge against Bungie for that. The Mass Effect 3 ending ... it made me cancel my Old Republic subscription and I can't get motivated to finish my Insanity run even skipping all the cutscenes. I own ALL the DLC for ME1 and 2. Not getting anything for ME3 (I watched the Javik stuff on Youtube).
The ending DLC is weird. I have no idea what Bioware is even thinking here unless they had no chance of monetizing the expansions without doing something (which means their data showed a FAR more negative response then their PR puff indicates). And yet the ending writers still have jobs ... maybe they have incriminating photos of the Drs?
The ending DLC is weird. I have no idea what Bioware is even thinking here unless they had no chance of monetizing the expansions without doing something (which means their data showed a FAR more negative response then their PR puff indicates). And yet the ending writers still have jobs ... maybe they have incriminating photos of the Drs?
HDgaming42
Member
Or maybe the writers had nothing to do with the ending, and it's poor form to sack the Executive Producer?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This! Seriously, this. Can any other game compare? It's baffling why they let this happen. Why did they go the route they did? Why did the writers ever believe this was a good idea? They destroyed what was otherwise considered one of the best sci-fi games ever made and it's like they don't give a flying fuck. It took a massive amount of outrage and pages like that "demand a better ending" and fundraisers to finally decide on doing an ending DLC to clear things up and they (they being Bioware) just scratch their heads like they don't know why people hated the ending. They're seriously that disconnected? It's like attending a high society party, shitting your pants and wondering why everyone is looking at you.
That ending isn't going to do anything. It's going to be an unsatisfactory extended cut and nothing more. It'll probably just explain why Joker ran through a relay and that's about it. Honestly, this series may just be dead at this point.
On that note, someone mentioned Monkey Island 2 having a horrible ending. I think Ultima IX may be almost comparable to this, but ME wins for worst ending. Sad thing is both are by the same publishers. "EA Games, we're into crappy endings."
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