Great argument, thanks for playing.
I'll file the rest of your comments as 'poor attempts at trolling'
lol maurader shields lol
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Great argument, thanks for playing.
I'll file the rest of your comments as 'poor attempts at trolling'
lol maurader shields lol
Saren didn't experiment with reaper tech the way TIM did. He didn't have the labs or the materials recovered from the collector's base.
To show you he is wounded. It's the typical hurt midsection animation that could be either lethal or not. Think Uncharted 2 for instance.
Shepardrunning.gif
I wish I saw the space ghost coming so I could have stopped the game before going up the the elevator.
What do you mean by weighty?
You don't want to see the consequences of your choices in the finale of a trilogy?
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Yep, there is a lot of Green, Blue and Red through the games, they had it planed all along.
LightofRohan
Member
I don't like people saying they wish there was a Boss fight. That was the 1 thing I appreciated about the ending... and didn't we all hate them for that in ME2? Also, that's one of the biggest things publishers push developers for, "Add a boss fight. Gamers need that validation they won". When I worked for a publisher, that's literally what they did for every game while I was there, no matter how big or small. It was disgusting...
Shake Appeal
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96CczhHtqgY
From 2.55 until 3.00: Shepard clutching his left side. Before the confrontation.
Also at 5.55.
Haha
I did like the final Anderson scene a lot, though. That moment was pretty perfect.
Because he didn't have the tech installed before. Didn't you see his face in that last scene? They weren't that subtle about it.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
But TIM is shown in a state mirroring the guy from ME1, showing he is almost fully under Reaper control, so its Reaper control by proxy.
No, we hated the terrible design.
It was a Terminator draw by a 10 year old from vague memory's from when he watch the film as a 6 year old.
Trolling what? It's ridiculous because you're getting upset over something so insignificant. There were no plans on the notes for an indoctrination twist. In any case, I think the events at the end of the game happened. That's all. Shep saves the galaxy, that's what happens.
Because he didn't have the tech installed before. Didn't you see his face in that last scene? They weren't that subtle about it.
So, we are to believe that between you seeing him with Miranda, etc. and him on the citadel, he's installed reaper tech learned how to use it AND found his way on it? that's more believable than indoctrination?
TIMs control powers were supposed to only work on Reapers and what they control right? How could TIM control him unless....
omgshepardwasindoctrinated
Well, ME2 boss was a T-1000 and the encounter designed was pretty bad. I think people hated it because it wasn't fun and it certainly didn't make any sense. Plus, it looked really silly.
The issue isn't that it's a boss, the issue is that it's a badly design one. And really, beating one boss and having ME3 end is kind of dumb. There are thousands of Reapers all around the Earth, killing one won't matter.
Foreshadowed? If they were I missed that completely. Could you elaborate?
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
BioWare's fans putting more thought and analysis into their endings is much more believable than indoctrination.
I'm down with no boss fights. The CE art book mentions that a monstrous Illusive Man was at one point going to be the final encounter, but they decided that they wanted the Illusive Man's "power" to be his brain.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
The research on Sanctuary does specifically state that the Reaper reverse-engineering was only supposed to work on those affected by reaper tech, such as husks, etc.
However, I think it also mentions somewhere near TIM getting the upgrades that it's allowing him to broadcast a signal similar to the Reaper indoctrination process.
Basically, it's more relatively unexplained space magic.
(Or The lazarus project could have used reaper tech. Who knows.)
There are only 295 Reaper motherships
Speaking of that where did all the semi-big ones come from? I can accept the eye ships being docked inside the motherships, but the Destroyers are pretty damn big.
Shake Appeal
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CiFHqKD4qE#t=34m32s
An important cutscene you might have missed.
"Begin the procedure. No anaesthetic. Computer, end recording."
they literally show you him putting in the shit in the ceberus base video logs
like this is one thing that these idiots actually did explain
why are we fixated on it
Just read the newest PR piece from BioWare. "Don't want to sacrifice artistic integrity" my ass.
But the thing is, even the Star Child ending could have been handled a lot better than it was. If you played well to the point of reuniting peace with the Geth and Quarians, perhaps make it possible to convince the Star Child that he's absolutely wrong. You can make it the hardest Paragon/Renegade check in the game, but at least make it so that Shepard's actions is what really defines Shepard (just like 99% of the rest of the entire trilogy).
Going to control the Reapers? Well what are you going to do with them? Are you just going to have them fly away? Are you going to have them facilitate the rebuilding of galactic civilization at the very real cost that this same shit can happen all over again in the future? Or maybe you really would like to control the Reapers as a means of promoting human superiority. Hell, Renegade Shepard is not above tricking an entire race to believe they cured their genophage just because some other galactic leader was pissy about it.
Going Synthesis option? Well maybe the sudden explosion of Space Magic could be that one ending choice that destroys the Mass Relays for the step of advancing the entire whole of galactic civilization in a very big way, perhaps with its own possible complications. Perhaps the game could have disclosed that this is the one choice that may have the most long-term benefits at the major cost of impairing galactic civilization for years to come. Maybe that could be the ending that gets the Normandy crashed.
But the thing is, even the Star Child ending could have been handled a lot better than it was. If you played well to the point of reuniting peace with the Geth and Quarians, perhaps make it possible to convince the Star Child that he's absolutely wrong. You can make it the hardest Paragon/Renegade check in the game, but at least make it so that Shepard's actions is what really defines Shepard (just like 99% of the rest of the entire trilogy).
Going to control the Reapers? Well what are you going to do with them? Are you just going to have them fly away? Are you going to have them facilitate the rebuilding of galactic civilization at the very real cost that this same shit can happen all over again in the future? Or maybe you really would like to control the Reapers as a means of promoting human superiority. Hell, Renegade Shepard is not above tricking an entire race to believe they cured their genophage just because some other galactic leader was pissy about it.
Going Synthesis option? Well maybe the sudden explosion of Space Magic could be that one ending choice that destroys the Mass Relays for the step of advancing the entire whole of galactic civilization in a very big way, perhaps with its own possible complications. Perhaps the game could have disclosed that this is the one choice that may have the most long-term benefits at the major cost of impairing galactic civilization for years to come. Maybe that could be the ending that gets the Normandy crashed.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Food for thought here, what was the purpose of Sovereign/Saren (ME1) if Starchild could've just unleashed the Reapers at anytime?
Because its a cycle, and its efficient to do so 50,000 years before organics kill themselves.
That always came off to me as them not wanting people to be able to end the game with just a conversation, like they didn't have the balls to try that. As cool as I thought it was convincing Saren to blow his brains out, 2 minutes later I was scratching my head saying "what was the point?" as his robotic corpse rose to fight me.
The only ways this could make any sense is if he was deliberately holding back in case the races of this cycle actually made and connected the Crucible. Alternatively, if what the Prothean scientists screwed up was the ability for that relay to be opened by the Citadel itself, whether by the Keepers or by Starchild.
Echoes of Pink
Member
When I finished the game, I thought the endings were pretty lame. Since then, I've watched all of the indoctrination theory videos and write ups. I'm absolutely floored by the whole idea of it. Whoever put it all together deserves a pat on the back.
I'm sure all of these were posted already, but these are the ones I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&feature=watch_response
http://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck
I'm sure all of these were posted already, but these are the ones I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&feature=watch_response
http://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck
1 boss fight instead of 2?
That's the one thing I like about the ending. No end boss battle
Besides Marauder Shields of course.
This is what I assumed. Which is why since my original post I had no problem with TIM confrontation. You were still yourself and you questioned him, etc.
My problem was with Space Child. The entire series you question everything instead of just listening to what people said. That just doesn't seem right. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention at some parts but the whole control/destroy thing doesn't make any sense. Why would Space Child build a way for someone else to take control/destroy? Why does he voluntarily lift you up and say "aw shucks, an organic is up here. My plan to stop the chaos no longer works" which also makes no sense. How does Shepard being there mean that his method to stop the created from destroying their creators no longer work? In no way are these even remotely associated.
There's just too many questions. Then again, we're obviously not "high-level" enough.
bigboss370
Member
alright, thought i would post my input on this whole ending fiasco. i for one, did not have such a big problem with the ending as others did.
i'll start with things i agree should not have happened:
- Joker should not have been leaving the Sol Sytem with the rest of your crew, including your romantic interest. this part definitely sucks.
- Shepard dying. Sucks. There should be a happy ending, where you live happily ever after with your romantic interest.
and i think those are the only two problems. here's why i think everything else is fine.
I believe the Mass Effect world, in its history, is a reflection of human history on a galactic scale. Civilizations rise to a peak, and eventually die out or kill each other off. Same with galactic species. Its a mirror of technology becoming so advanced that it destroys nature, similar to the plot of The Day the Earth Stood Still. The Reapers' job, is to control this inevitable self destruction, so that younger and underdeveloped species can survive the armageddon.
This is where Shepard comes in, why he's the legend. He defies this inevitability, by uniting all the species and making certain choices like curing the genophage. If not for Shepard, war would happen everywhere. Krogan vs Turians and Salarians, Quarians vs Geth. Especially Shep's influence in resolving Quarian vs Geth, organics vs synthetics.
Shepard proves Reapers are wrong method by uniting all the species. Thus he is given option to control or destroy Reapers, and sets back galactic technology. Like the ending of Day the Earth Stood Still, where
. Its a bittersweet ending, where the cycle is broken, but technology is set back to allow for a longer lifetime of organics.
The stargazer ending implies that everything eventually worked out, and Shepard's story was passed down.
i'll start with things i agree should not have happened:
- Joker should not have been leaving the Sol Sytem with the rest of your crew, including your romantic interest. this part definitely sucks.
- Shepard dying. Sucks. There should be a happy ending, where you live happily ever after with your romantic interest.
and i think those are the only two problems. here's why i think everything else is fine.
I believe the Mass Effect world, in its history, is a reflection of human history on a galactic scale. Civilizations rise to a peak, and eventually die out or kill each other off. Same with galactic species. Its a mirror of technology becoming so advanced that it destroys nature, similar to the plot of The Day the Earth Stood Still. The Reapers' job, is to control this inevitable self destruction, so that younger and underdeveloped species can survive the armageddon.
This is where Shepard comes in, why he's the legend. He defies this inevitability, by uniting all the species and making certain choices like curing the genophage. If not for Shepard, war would happen everywhere. Krogan vs Turians and Salarians, Quarians vs Geth. Especially Shep's influence in resolving Quarian vs Geth, organics vs synthetics.
Shepard proves Reapers are wrong method by uniting all the species. Thus he is given option to control or destroy Reapers, and sets back galactic technology. Like the ending of Day the Earth Stood Still, where
electricity was taken out
The stargazer ending implies that everything eventually worked out, and Shepard's story was passed down.
I want to see the conclusion to the story in the finale of a trilogy. I think I'm in a different spectrum to most people with Mass Effect, because I don't really give a fuck about my choices coming to fruition. My choices did come to fruition throughout all of ME3, though, and I loved that. I wanted to see a conclusion to the story arc of the reapers introduced in the first game.
I'm different in that I don't play these games and do X Y and Z things so that I can get A ending instead of B ending. I do them because that's how I feel the choices are. My choices are rewarded already, because the story already is what I've chosen. I don't need something later to happen to reaffirm that.
AIs/VIs can take different forms. They're essentially code without a real body. I thought that he took that form because that's what was in Shepard's memory. The boy symbolized that he couldn't save everyone, and he was always a painful reminder of that throughout the game. He was a reminder that not everything could be set right. And I think that's reflected in the choices, since none of them are perfect. He has to sacrifice no matter which way he goes. The galaxy has to sacrifice no matter which way they go.
Sure they were color pallet swaps, but the budget isn't fucking infinite. The ending to Dragon Age: Origins was mostly text. I'll take pallet swaps and an epic ending to that any day. The ramifications of the endings still hold to your choice, though.
I'm talking about the conflict between synthetics and organics. That was always the central theme in Mass Effect. It's explored in the first one through the Geth and Saren. In the 2nd one you see how the synthetics are creating life from organics with the human reaper. In the 3rd you see the conflict between the Quarians and the Geth, and you have a number of solutions there. Javik hints at the fact that synthetics always rebel against their masters. The prothean AI says some similar things and also talks about sensing something else that is keeping the cycle going. I kind of knew there would always be basically three choices in the end, and I think the series foreshadowed that. you could follow the illusive man and control your enemy, you could destroy your enemy as you have been kind of planning to do, or you could find some sort of peace in the middle. That all manifests itself with the Geth/Quarian conflict. You come to really realize that just destroying something isn't the best answer, necessarily, and you've always known that controlling things isn't necessarily the best answer either. But these are choices that could be made. Javik's people chose hostility and to destroy their enemies. In my play through I always played as though Shepard had hope that there could be another way. Also, I think Legion and his sacrifice, putting his code throughout all of the Geth perfectly foreshadows and almost mirror's Shepard's if you chose the synthesis.
Personally, I also like the implication that the galaxy now has to rebuild itself. It had a head-start to begin with while finding all that tech, and I find it to be interesting that when you rebel against that you lose your footing. It's like biting the hand that feeds you. In the end, though, it had to be done. I also just like the whole idea that the galaxy is freed from its shackles now and instead of being kind of the same old place it was it now has to rebuild and redo things almost from the ground up with that knowledge of what came before.
Btw, did anyone not even realize there were three options at first? I was furiously chatting about what a bunch of bullshit I was watching, so I just pushed up and went into the middle for the synthesis end.
I didn't even get to choose the Synthesis ending because I don't like the multiplayer. How dumb is that?
Trent Strong
Banned
They had a terrible boss fight a little earlier with that Raidenesque ninja guy.
That's what concerns me the most. The obvious, perplexing issues with the end lie not in indoctrination, but the writing. The Catalyst makes no sense in regards as to why its intent is broken. I think it has something to do with the Crucible, but it doesn't explain why those three new options invalidated its original purpose.
Kevin "Vent Kid" Spacey: I was wrong. Here are three new options!
We weren't allowed to ask why it was wrong, how those options came to be, why those options were available, or why they must be chosen.
High level is such a cop-out.
Inferno313
Banned
You can easily get enough points for Synthesis without playing multiplayer. Now if you wanna complain about the "Shepard lives" ending, that would be a little more justifiable, although still possible from what I gather. However, the Synthesis ending is quite easy to achieve.
For a while only, untile they are ready to be reaped themselves. What is the point of allowing life if you deny it's nature i.e. evolution and the ability to choose (free will).
Sorry but he doesn't. The only inevitability here is the Starchild, and Shepard doesn't defy him, he accepts him. All of those choices didn't matter for who he was, because none of them factor into what he could do, in fact most of the endings deny them outright.Krogans are either cured in a planet with no resources or destined to die. Quarians are stranded at the other end of the galaxy. In all endings your peace pacts don't factor in, and one of them outright kills the Geth you fought to save.
There's nothing bittersweet about it. All of the races are destined to extinction, in fact a pretty violent and rapid one. Their home planets become unsustainable without space travel, and are already kind of devastated/overpopulated. Hell, the Quarians are all stranded above Earth, on the other side of the galaxy.
Hold the line, my brother. I will continue to stand by the indoctrination theory, as it STILL is the one that makes the most sense and always has.
Don't worry, a lot of people will eat crow this April/May.
Or the fact that everything that is happening is in Shepard's mind, a battle of indoctrination. The weird colors in the Citadel, the music, the weird voices and echoes, the fact that Anderson somehow took the same path yet was ahead, TIM looking like the devil and somehow having control over both Shepard and Anderson.
It's not really happening.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I got synthesis, the ems has to be a full bar(green) in the war room. No MP
Well yes, it's one of ME's themes. But don't forget that you spend most of ME3 fixing those conflicts and not only that, transforming the essence of that synthetic life (with the Geth and EDI becoming actual individuals and all that fanservice) so that they are synthetic only in the physical sense. And just then you get told the opposite. That kid is dumb as ****.
I had the full green bar. And I only left like four scanning sidequests uncompleted.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
I would post a funny gif, but this is just sad.
Did you try walking all the way? Should've worked, not unless there were other triggers involved like how TIM was handled at the end and the Collector base.
I agree with the multiplayer portion stuff being retarded, but I got the Synthesis ending without touching multiplayer. It's possible to get your war assets high enough while leaving Galactic Readiness at 50%.
As for videos... Those of you who like anime and/or Gurren Lagann will like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAmVVAjZZeM
It's proven time and time again that renegade options ultimately destroy, kill, or injure someone. This destroys all the Reapers. It makes sense that it's Red, and it makes sense that Anderson is used to depict it, because it's what he would have done.
Paragons typically would use their mind and use it as a way to control the situation, in this case literally controlling the Reapers.
There is no best choice, that's up to the player to decide. Some love the idea of sacrifice. If Shepard is shown breathing, that defeats the purpose. It's actually invalidates the sacrifice, which only a paragon would do.
The Reapers are used to perpetuate a cycle; they don't do anything but follow that through. If the code (the Catalyst) decided what it was doing so far is no longer right, because new options are presented to end the cycle, then there's nothing that the Reapers desire. It's up to you at that point their fate. In fact, if you didn't do anything -- pick a color -- they would continue doing what they've always done. The Catalyst says that you need to make it happen, not it. If they had a plan, they would have killed you there.
If you choose synthesis, you invalidate their purpose. Since everything's a hybrid they no longer need to preserve organic species, since they no longer exist.
Control is not what the reapers want. Why would they want to be controlled by Shepard?
Remember, ultimately these things are intended to end the cycle.
The final scene emulates that of Saren, but TIM doesn't survive. He just dies. No final boss was made because it would be too videogamey. No diverse conversation wheel was given with the Catalyst because the conversation had to be kept high level. No closure was given because players need to speculate on their choices.
Otrebor Nightmarecoat
Banned
Thanks for the ghost kid bioware. Thanks for shitting on my face as I say goodbye. Good 30 previous hours though