heliosRAzi
Banned
So because it could be indoctrination means that it is indoctrination.
Idon'tknowthereforeindoctrination.jpg
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
So because it could be indoctrination means that it is indoctrination.
Idon'tknowthereforeindoctrination.jpg
Which could also be argued as well - what if the VI can't parse indoctrination until the host is fully indoctrinated? Shepard was still fighting it at that time.
Really, the indoctrination theory was doomed the moment this came to light.
The Indoctrination Theory is lots of speculation, no?
If the color palette constantly shift between red blue and green, it would be great.
Maybe, but you will never know the answer. And really, if that's all they wanted us to pull from the endings, then they deserved all the hate. Because that's exactly the same as "the character wakes up and it was all a dream".
I assume because to them, the ending was high concept art. Any criticism is just self-entitled fanboys crying that they didn't get the perfect happy ending.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I would hate it if the use the indoctrination in the ending. Indoc believers are gonna say "I told you"
Last Hearth
Member
Here is how it solves the main plot.
The Catalyst is actually Shepard.
The device needs a will to direct it. Shepard is the person who can provide the will. Reaper indoctrination is an attempt to dominate his will so that he won't be able use it to destroy them.
So everything up to Hackett going "it's not doing anything" is true, after that it was an indocrtination sequence. The reason it's not doing anything is that the device, even though it's been turn on, cannot do anything until a mind direct it for a specific purpose.
In the indoctrination scene at the end Shephard's choice is actually real, but clouded by the suggestions of Harbinger/Child to use it for a purpose other than his original purpose. So if he makes the right choice, destroy. The reapers are actually destroyed by the the Crucible.
Indoctrination theory assumes that there was intent behind the confusion, though. But what we've seen from the leaked scripts, the behind-the-scenes stuff, and what assumptions we can make about Bioware's writing process makes it pretty obvious (to me at least) that such a thing was never intended in the first place. The ending is just a lot of vague shit meant to spark vague, aimless speculation.
There, you actually fixed the ending in a way that actually makes sense.
Only one that had the courage to unite the Galaxy against the Reapers.
My suggestion for the end:
- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)
- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast
- credits
- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin
- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)
- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast
- credits
- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin
No it's because some didn't mind the endings and don't hate them but I would agree that the ending's are mediocre, they are not as terrible as keeps being talked about. If the Indoctrination theory is true than fine if not than that's fine to but I think the thing that would make a difference for the ending is more of what happened to all the characters.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Disco Lighting Canon
Which is consistent with bioware, right?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
EDIT: nvm
heliosRAzi
Banned
The Desperation theory says that everyone after the laser beam is Shep is hallucinating because of the unlimited ammo and all of that nonsense. Even if what you say is true, how does Shep end up back on Earth in the "best" ending?
People need to realize that Bioware made a bad ending. There is nothing underlying it. They fucked up and you guys are providing an out for them. You are basically accepting the fact that you bought a game with no ending. You are paving the way for DLC endings. Congratulations.
Just replayed The Arrival DLC for ME2. The asteroid that blows up the mass relay causes such a huge supernova like explosion, that the entire system + more is affected by the blast. Everything completely wiped out.
Wouldn't the same happen when space magic blows up the mass relays?
And man, I hated ME2 so much but I never fully appreciated Harbinger. Just from that 2 minute conversation with him in the DLC, he was such a badass.
Wouldn't the same happen when space magic blows up the mass relays?
And man, I hated ME2 so much but I never fully appreciated Harbinger. Just from that 2 minute conversation with him in the DLC, he was such a badass.
My suggestion for the end:
- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)
- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast
- credits
- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin
Exactly.
That would have been bittersweet. Shepard and Anderson dead? Manly tears everywhere.
But what I really think was missing was any representation of the forces you amassed during the first 39 hours. I mean, where were the Volus Bombers? The Geth Primes? The Quarian marines?
All we really had was a list of assets. And that was incredibly disappointing.
Well, Bioware can sure pull the "IT WAS SPACE MAGIC SO THE RELAYS WERE JUST DISABLED AND WENT POUF WITHOUT KILLING ANYONE". After all, we spoke to a ghost kid and they never explained who the fuck he was. Seriously, why do you introduce a new entity in the last 5 minutes of your game. An entity that seems to control the Reapers and seems to be all knowing and all powerful.
What a mess...
Last Hearth
Member
That's one version of the indoctrination theory. My version is slightly different but nevertheless also a theory of the ending that includes indoctrination.
Paving the way for DLC endings?
I assume you just started playing video games? That's cool. There's been a few games with "DLC" endings but sure, us entitled fanboys are paving the way for something that's already been done before..
WrenchNinja
Member
No because space magic makes mass relays not blow up relay systems. because space magic.
My suggestion for the end:
- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)
- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast
- credits
- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin
That would have definitely been better, but like it is stated above a bit more would be nice.
Edit: I may need to replay with my fem shep and just hit the power button at that spot.
Last Hearth
Member
Exactly, the whole game was about Shepard being the metaphorical Catalyst that brings the entire Galaxy together. So why shouldn't he also be the literal Catalyst that makes the Crucible work.
LightofRohan
Member
Fan Fiction Inc:
Oh yea, that would have been a sweet for the "screwed it all up ending". Everythings going to shit, the catalyst did not work and Shepard grabs the Time Capsule recording one last message on earth warning about the reapers and that they have failed. And then post credits you see a different type of alien species arms uncovering the ground revealing fragments of Shepards N7 armor and the Time capsule; fade to black!
Oh yea, that would have been a sweet for the "screwed it all up ending". Everythings going to shit, the catalyst did not work and Shepard grabs the Time Capsule recording one last message on earth warning about the reapers and that they have failed. And then post credits you see a different type of alien species arms uncovering the ground revealing fragments of Shepards N7 armor and the Time capsule; fade to black!
Aren't people already attacking this ending for metaphysical nonsense?
I'm easy to please. Seriously, as soon as they mentionned the Catalyst I was immediately sure it was Shepard. If you want to stick to the internal fiction, the only reason that the universe is still standing is that Shepard acted. You are the driving force behind the story. Being the key to the universe salvation is just the logical step. :|
And I would have no issue with that. Just removed the ghost kid. Seriously.
Zomba13
Member
It's true. I'm a space wizard with a PhD in space magic specialising in red, green and blue kinds and can confirm that those kinds of space magic do not cause mass relays to explode in a super nova like explosion.
Being space Jesus. Without him, nobody got their ass in gear. Not particularly great, but they can make that angle work. Heavy handed as all hell, but hey...
LoganKnight4949
Member
So, if it's not indoctrination, why is it that the "Red" or Renegade Choice is the one that destroys the reapers while sacrificing someone(which is EXACTLY what the entire game is about. The destruction of the reapers which comes with sacrifice)? It's made to look like the bad(red) choice, yet it's the only one that makes sense with the game in regards to theme, and context!
And why is it that this is the only choice in which Shepard takes a breath at the end of the game? Because it's the ONLY correct one, yet it is made to look like the "bad" chocie.
If it's not indoctrination, why is it that the blue(paragon) and middle choice are essentially EXACTLY WHAT THE REAPERS WANT?
It makes perfect sense, and the final scene with TIM actually emulates Saren's suicide. There's a reason for that people.
The problem with the game isn't this final scene, it's the fact that it looks like they totally cut all the conclusion out and saved it for DLC.
And why is it that this is the only choice in which Shepard takes a breath at the end of the game? Because it's the ONLY correct one, yet it is made to look like the "bad" chocie.
If it's not indoctrination, why is it that the blue(paragon) and middle choice are essentially EXACTLY WHAT THE REAPERS WANT?
It makes perfect sense, and the final scene with TIM actually emulates Saren's suicide. There's a reason for that people.
The problem with the game isn't this final scene, it's the fact that it looks like they totally cut all the conclusion out and saved it for DLC.
WHICH BETTER BE FREE!
I think we should all remember these so-called gaming sites and 'journalists' who ridiculed the fans during these times. Don't forget their names. Next time these phoney, two-faced, hypocritical mouthpieces for gaming companies slip up in their 'reporting', let's not give them any mercy.
heliosRAzi
Banned
And it doesn't explain how Shepard can end up back on Earth in the "best" ending. Of course Bioware can't even explain that with the given endings. The reason why there are so many plot holes and inconsistencies is because they rushed the ending. It wasn't even finalized until a couple of months ago. They even took parts out to garner LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE.
Hey, the road's not finished so it can still be paved.
..because that's just cheesy.
They say that the Crucible has been a creation for many cycles with each piece adding something new.
I'd rather have this space child ending than something that cheesy. Hundreds, maybe millions of years of building the crucible all for one human to be the catalyst? No thanks.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Same, I even thought the Citadel was a red herring, the the whole " ...nothing's happening... '' thing gave me one last hope.
Shouta
Member
I'm pretty sure everyone thought so.
Because the gasp for air is nothing more than an Easter egg. Also, space magic could have carried him safely back to Earth. Did you never think of that?
heliosRAzi
Banned
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Indoc people, you are giving to much thought into the ending. As well as giving bioware credit when they should not be.
I'm actually somewhat intrigued by what Bioware has planned to "fix" the ending.
I think a lot of people who hated it would rather they just re-did everything after the final Anderson conversation, but I can't imagine Bioware will go that route, especially not with Muzyka saying stuff like "we're going to respond to it in a way that both considers the audience as co-creators in our artistic journey and yet thoroughly maintains the artistic integrity of the team's original choices."
I think a lot of people who hated it would rather they just re-did everything after the final Anderson conversation, but I can't imagine Bioware will go that route, especially not with Muzyka saying stuff like "we're going to respond to it in a way that both considers the audience as co-creators in our artistic journey and yet thoroughly maintains the artistic integrity of the team's original choices."
LightofRohan
Member
The ending is replaced with a hidden camera shot of Hudson getting fired. Gamers are pleased.
No, I don't want anyone to get fired. Maybe just Mac though... and this is from after meeting him
I'm not saying Bioware is genius and thought all of this through, but it would be dumb of them to not just roll with it. It's in their best interest to keep their franchise alive.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
For once, Yahtzee actually got a "review" right:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3
