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[heliosRAzi]

Other than 6, none of the other ones say anything about indoctrination, all they say is "it might not have to be indoctrination."

So really you gave one solid argument against.

So because it could be indoctrination means that it is indoctrination.

Idon'tknowthereforeindoctrination.jpg

 

[flyover]

April DLC: Shepard wakes up in his bunk next to Suzanne Pleshette, who is holding a snow globe and then turns into a golden retriever as a plane flies overhead, its engines making a noise that sounds suspiciously like Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... and we cut to black.

 

[rocK`]

Other than 6, none of the other ones say anything about indoctrination, all they say is "it might not have to be indoctrination."

So really you gave one solid argument against.

Which could also be argued as well - what if the VI can't parse indoctrination until the host is fully indoctrinated? Shepard was still fighting it at that time.

 

[Dresden]

Really, the indoctrination theory was doomed the moment this came to light.

 

[Moaradin]

Really, the indoctrination theory was doomed the moment this came to light.

The Indoctrination Theory is lots of speculation, no?

 

[DTKT]

April DLC: Shepard wakes up in his bunk next to Suzanne Pleshette, who is holding a snow globe and then turns into a golden retriever as a plane flies overhead, its engines making a noise that sounds suspiciously like Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'"... and we cut to black.

If the color palette constantly shift between red blue and green, it would be great.

The Indoctrination Theory is lots of speculation, no?

Maybe, but you will never know the answer. And really, if that's all they wanted us to pull from the endings, then they deserved all the hate. Because that's exactly the same as "the character wakes up and it was all a dream".

 

[Jasoneyu]

Why don't people just own up to the fact that the endings are bad

I assume because to them, the ending was high concept art. Any criticism is just self-entitled fanboys crying that they didn't get the perfect happy ending.

 

[Rebel Leader]

So because it could be indoctrination means that it is indoctrination.

Idon'tknowthereforeindoctrination.jpg

I would hate it if the use the indoctrination in the ending. Indoc believers are gonna say "I told you"

 

[Last Hearth]

The Desperation Theory is shit because it doesn't solve the main plot. It just provides an out for Bioware. That's it.

Here is how it solves the main plot.

The Catalyst is actually Shepard.

The device needs a will to direct it. Shepard is the person who can provide the will. Reaper indoctrination is an attempt to dominate his will so that he won't be able use it to destroy them.

So everything up to Hackett going "it's not doing anything" is true, after that it was an indocrtination sequence. The reason it's not doing anything is that the device, even though it's been turn on, cannot do anything until a mind direct it for a specific purpose.

In the indoctrination scene at the end Shephard's choice is actually real, but clouded by the suggestions of Harbinger/Child to use it for a purpose other than his original purpose. So if he makes the right choice, destroy. The reapers are actually destroyed by the the Crucible.

 

[Dresden]

The Indoctrination Theory is lots of speculation, no?

Indoctrination theory assumes that there was intent behind the confusion, though. But what we've seen from the leaked scripts, the behind-the-scenes stuff, and what assumptions we can make about Bioware's writing process makes it pretty obvious (to me at least) that such a thing was never intended in the first place. The ending is just a lot of vague shit meant to spark vague, aimless speculation.

 

[Zeliard]

What makes Shepard the Catalyst?

 

[DTKT]

Here is how it solves the main plot.

The Catalyst is actually Shepard.

The device needs a will to direct it. Shepard is the person who can provide the will. Reaper indoctrination is an attempt to dominate his will so that he won't be able use it to destroy them.

So everything up to Hackett going "it's not doing anything" is true, after that it was an indocrtination sequence. The reason it's not doing anything is that the device, even though it's been turn on, cannot do anything until a mind direct it for a specific purpose.

In the indoctrination scene at the end Shephard's choice is actually real, but clouded by the suggestions of Harbinger/Child to use it for a purpose other than his original purpose. So if he makes the right choice, destroy. The reapers are actually destroyed by the the Crucible.

There, you actually fixed the ending in a way that actually makes sense.

What makes Shepard the Catalyst?

Only one that had the courage to unite the Galaxy against the Reapers.

 

[Dresden]

My suggestion for the end:

- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)

- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast

- credits

- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin

 

[Lothars]

I assume because to them, the ending was high concept art. Any criticism is just self-entitled fanboys crying that they didn't get the perfect happy ending.

No it's because some didn't mind the endings and don't hate them but I would agree that the ending's are mediocre, they are not as terrible as keeps being talked about. If the Indoctrination theory is true than fine if not than that's fine to but I think the thing that would make a difference for the ending is more of what happened to all the characters.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

If the color palette constantly shift between red blue and green, it would be great.




Maybe, but you will never know the answer. And really, if that's all they wanted us to pull from the endings, then they deserved all the hate. Because that's exactly the same as "the character wakes up and it was all a dream".

Disco Lighting Canon

 

[HK-47]

LACK OF ARTISTIC INTEGRITY FROM EVERYONE

 

[rocK`]

Indoctrination theory assumes that there was intent behind the confusion, though. But what we've seen from the leaked scripts, the behind-the-scenes stuff, and what assumptions we can make about Bioware's writing process makes it pretty obvious (to me at least) that such a thing was never intended in the first place. The ending is just a lot of vague shit meant to spark vague, aimless speculation.

Which is consistent with bioware, right?

 

[Dilly]

I thought throughout the game that Shepard was the Catalyst.

 

[Rebel Leader]

EDIT: nvm

 

[heliosRAzi]

Here is how it solves the main plot.

The Catalyst is actually Shepard.

The device needs a will to direct it. Shepard is the person who can provide the will. Reaper indoctrination is an attempt to dominate his will so that he won't be able use it to destroy them.

So everything up to Hackett going "it's not doing anything" is true, after that it was an indocrtination sequence. The reason it's not doing anything is that the device, even though it's been turn on, cannot do anything until a mind direct it for a specific purpose.

In the indoctrination scene at the end Shephard's choice is actually real, but clouded by the suggestions of Harbinger/Child to use it for a purpose other than his original purpose. So if he makes the right choice, destroy. The reapers are actually destroyed by the the Crucible.

The Desperation theory says that everyone after the laser beam is Shep is hallucinating because of the unlimited ammo and all of that nonsense. Even if what you say is true, how does Shep end up back on Earth in the "best" ending?

People need to realize that Bioware made a bad ending. There is nothing underlying it. They fucked up and you guys are providing an out for them. You are basically accepting the fact that you bought a game with no ending. You are paving the way for DLC endings. Congratulations.

 

[Omega]

Just replayed The Arrival DLC for ME2. The asteroid that blows up the mass relay causes such a huge supernova like explosion, that the entire system + more is affected by the blast. Everything completely wiped out.

Wouldn't the same happen when space magic blows up the mass relays?

And man, I hated ME2 so much but I never fully appreciated Harbinger. Just from that 2 minute conversation with him in the DLC, he was such a badass.

 

[DTKT]

My suggestion for the end:

- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)

- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast

- credits

- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin

Exactly.

That would have been bittersweet. Shepard and Anderson dead? Manly tears everywhere.

But what I really think was missing was any representation of the forces you amassed during the first 39 hours. I mean, where were the Volus Bombers? The Geth Primes? The Quarian marines?

All we really had was a list of assets. And that was incredibly disappointing.

Just replayed The Arrival DLC for ME2. The asteroid that blows up the mass relay causes such a huge supernova like explosion, that the entire system + more is affected by the blast. Everything completely wiped out.

Wouldn't the same happen when space magic blows up the mass relays?

And man, I hated ME2 so much but I never fully appreciated Harbinger. Just from that 2 minute conversation with him in the DLC, he was such a badass.

Well, Bioware can sure pull the "IT WAS SPACE MAGIC SO THE RELAYS WERE JUST DISABLED AND WENT POUF WITHOUT KILLING ANYONE". After all, we spoke to a ghost kid and they never explained who the fuck he was. Seriously, why do you introduce a new entity in the last 5 minutes of your game. An entity that seems to control the Reapers and seems to be all knowing and all powerful.

What a mess...

 

[Last Hearth]

The Desperation theory says that everyone after the laser beam is Shep is hallucinating because of the unlimited ammo and all of that nonsense. Even if what you say is true, how does Shep end up back on Earth in the "best" ending?

People need to realize that Bioware made a bad ending. There is nothing underlying it. They fucked up and you guys are providing an out for them. You are basically accepting the fact that you bought a game with no ending. You are paving the way for DLC endings. Congratulations.

That's one version of the indoctrination theory. My version is slightly different but nevertheless also a theory of the ending that includes indoctrination.

 

[Omega]

The Desperation theory says that everyone after the laser beam is Shep is hallucinating because of the unlimited ammo and all of that nonsense. Even if what you say is true, how does Shep end up back on Earth in the "best" ending?

People need to realize that Bioware made a bad ending. There is nothing underlying it. They fucked up and you guys are providing an out for them. You are basically accepting the fact that you bought a game with no ending. You are paving the way for DLC endings. Congratulations.

Paving the way for DLC endings?

I assume you just started playing video games? That's cool. There's been a few games with "DLC" endings but sure, us entitled fanboys are paving the way for something that's already been done before..

 

[WrenchNinja]

Just replayed The Arrival DLC for ME2. The asteroid that blows up the mass relay causes such a huge supernova like explosion, that the entire system + more is affected by the blast. Everything completely wiped out.

Wouldn't the same happen when space magic blows up the mass relays?

And man, I hated ME2 so much but I never fully appreciated Harbinger. Just from that 2 minute conversation with him in the DLC, he was such a badass.

No because space magic makes mass relays not blow up relay systems. because space magic.

 

[Ronabo]

Man I can't believe that was Buzz Aldrin.

Now it explains why it sounded so amateur and out of place.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

My suggestion for the end:

- the end; Starchild gets cut out of the story (artistic integrity lol)

- insert New Vegas style narration with static imagery to explain what happened to the rest of the cast

- credits

- a picture of Mac Walters and Hudson getting pelted with water balloons by the rest of the staff; no more Buzz Aldrin

That would have definitely been better, but like it is stated above a bit more would be nice.

Edit: I may need to replay with my fem shep and just hit the power button at that spot.

 

[Last Hearth]

I thought throughout the game that Shepard was the Catalyst.

Exactly, the whole game was about Shepard being the metaphorical Catalyst that brings the entire Galaxy together. So why shouldn't he also be the literal Catalyst that makes the Crucible work.

 

[LightofRohan]

Fan Fiction Inc:

Oh yea, that would have been a sweet for the "screwed it all up ending". Everythings going to shit, the catalyst did not work and Shepard grabs the Time Capsule recording one last message on earth warning about the reapers and that they have failed. And then post credits you see a different type of alien species arms uncovering the ground revealing fragments of Shepards N7 armor and the Time capsule; fade to black!

 

[Zeliard]

Only one that had the courage to unite the Galaxy against the Reapers.

Aren't people already attacking this ending for metaphysical nonsense?

 

[Dilly]

It just sucks that I had to destroy the universe I loved by fucking up those Mass Relays.

 

[DTKT]

Aren't people already attacking this ending for metaphysical nonsense?

I'm easy to please. Seriously, as soon as they mentionned the Catalyst I was immediately sure it was Shepard. If you want to stick to the internal fiction, the only reason that the universe is still standing is that Shepard acted. You are the driving force behind the story. Being the key to the universe salvation is just the logical step. :|

And I would have no issue with that. Just removed the ghost kid. Seriously.

 

[Zomba13]

No because space magic makes mass relays not blow up relay systems. because space magic.

It's true. I'm a space wizard with a PhD in space magic specialising in red, green and blue kinds and can confirm that those kinds of space magic do not cause mass relays to explode in a super nova like explosion.

 

[Rufus]

What makes Shepard the Catalyst?

Being space Jesus. Without him, nobody got their ass in gear. Not particularly great, but they can make that angle work. Heavy handed as all hell, but hey...

 

[LoganKnight4949]

So, if it's not indoctrination, why is it that the "Red" or Renegade Choice is the one that destroys the reapers while sacrificing someone(which is EXACTLY what the entire game is about. The destruction of the reapers which comes with sacrifice)? It's made to look like the bad(red) choice, yet it's the only one that makes sense with the game in regards to theme, and context!

And why is it that this is the only choice in which Shepard takes a breath at the end of the game? Because it's the ONLY correct one, yet it is made to look like the "bad" chocie.

If it's not indoctrination, why is it that the blue(paragon) and middle choice are essentially EXACTLY WHAT THE REAPERS WANT?

It makes perfect sense, and the final scene with TIM actually emulates Saren's suicide. There's a reason for that people.

The problem with the game isn't this final scene, it's the fact that it looks like they totally cut all the conclusion out and saved it for DLC.

Spoiler

WHICH BETTER BE FREE!

 

[Replicant]

Yeah, I'd bet it's likely to be free, both to earn them some positive PR, and to try and make those who complained look petty.

I think we should all remember these so-called gaming sites and 'journalists' who ridiculed the fans during these times. Don't forget their names. Next time these phoney, two-faced, hypocritical mouthpieces for gaming companies slip up in their 'reporting', let's not give them any mercy.

 

[heliosRAzi]

That's one version of the indoctrination theory. My version is slightly different but nevertheless also a theory of the ending that includes indoctrination.

And it doesn't explain how Shepard can end up back on Earth in the "best" ending. Of course Bioware can't even explain that with the given endings. The reason why there are so many plot holes and inconsistencies is because they rushed the ending. It wasn't even finalized until a couple of months ago. They even took parts out to garner LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE.

There's been a few games with "DLC" endings but sure, us entitled fanboys are paving the way for something that's already been done before..

Hey, the road's not finished so it can still be paved.

 

[rocK`]

also, I think the hallucination, ink figures (which apparently is explained in the indoctrination codex) and black lines at the end is good evidence for the indoctrination theory

 

[Omega]

Exactly, the whole game was about Shepard being the metaphorical Catalyst that brings the entire Galaxy together. So why shouldn't he also be the literal Catalyst that makes the Crucible work.

..because that's just cheesy.

They say that the Crucible has been a creation for many cycles with each piece adding something new.

I'd rather have this space child ending than something that cheesy. Hundreds, maybe millions of years of building the crucible all for one human to be the catalyst? No thanks.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I thought throughout the game that Shepard was the Catalyst.

Same, I even thought the Citadel was a red herring, the the whole " ...nothing's happening... '' thing gave me one last hope.

 

[Shouta]

I thought throughout the game that Shepard was the Catalyst.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought so.

 

[hateradio]

So, if it's not indoctrination, why is it that the "Red" or Renegade Choice is the one that destroys the reapers while sacrificing someone(which is EXACTLY what the entire game is about. The destruction of the reapers which comes with sacrifice)?

And why is it that this is the ONLY choice in which Shepard takes a breath at the end of the game? Because it's the ONLY correct one, yet it is made to look like the "bad" chocie.

If it's not indoctrination, why is it that the paragon and middle choice are essentially EXACTLY WHAT THE REAPERS WANT?

It makes perfect sense, and the final scene with TIM actually emulates Saren's suicide. There's a reason for that people.

Because the gasp for air is nothing more than an Easter egg. Also, space magic could have carried him safely back to Earth. Did you never think of that?

 

[heliosRAzi]

hallucination, ink figures

That's Shep's PTSD

black lines at the end

That's TIM's "control mojo"

 

[Rebel Leader]

Indoc people, you are giving to much thought into the ending. As well as giving bioware credit when they should not be.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm actually somewhat intrigued by what Bioware has planned to "fix" the ending.

I think a lot of people who hated it would rather they just re-did everything after the final Anderson conversation, but I can't imagine Bioware will go that route, especially not with Muzyka saying stuff like "we're going to respond to it in a way that both considers the audience as co-creators in our artistic journey and yet thoroughly maintains the artistic integrity of the team's original choices."

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I think we should all remember these so-called gaming sites and 'journalists' who ridiculed the fans during these times. Don't forget their names. Next time these phoney, two-faced, hypocritical mouthpieces for gaming companies slip up in their 'reporting', let's not give them any mercy.

like this gem by Arthur Gies

also, if you're one of the people demanding a different ending to mass effect 3, i don't think i could ever write for you.

 

[LightofRohan]

The ending is replaced with a hidden camera shot of Hudson getting fired. Gamers are pleased.

Spoiler

No, I don't want anyone to get fired. Maybe just Mac though... and this is from after meeting him

 

[Moaradin]

Indoc people, you are giving to much thought into the ending. As well as giving bioware credit when they should not be.

I'm not saying Bioware is genius and thought all of this through, but it would be dumb of them to not just roll with it. It's in their best interest to keep their franchise alive.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

For once, Yahtzee actually got a "review" right:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3

 

[ape2man]

So when it's proven true, you'll stop believing it?