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[VeryGooster]

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-its-over-its-over/4046/

Interesting discussion between Patrick and the EW Lost columnist. A little too hopeful that anyone is going to change their mind about the ending.

"Endings are hard."

The interesting matter is that I don't subscribe to the Indoctrination Theory, but maybe I sympathize after all, since that popular essay of The Sopranos' ending convinced me enough to accept that theory.

Got a good laugh from Lindelof's tweet, though.

At least he didn't say, "I appreciate criticisms and feedback from the fans, but my first instinct is to show you all the ratings and advertising revenue that's come flowin' in!"

 

[SerArthurDayne]

The Forbes being awesome again.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ewpost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20120322

That was epic.

And I was out for the debate on the previous pages. But essentially the Galaxy is exactly the same in terms of tech, with the exception of No Geth or Edi for Destroy.

Space Magic is very specific in only targeting synethic life. Why it only targets synthetic life and not all computers? Space Magic. Why it can't be limited to only affect Reapers? Space magic. Shepard living goes to show that, and Vent Kid essentially says that. The only evidence to the contrary is the Normandy getting blowed up, but that is plothole number 18 regarding the Normandy. And Space magic.

edit: And Giantbomb article misses the point again. I will admit a connection to the spirit of Lost, which had no conception of its own mythology in the end. But the resolution was still more cathartic, developed, and pretty well foreshadowed.

 

[nel e nel]

The interesting matter is that I don't subscribe to the Indoctrination Theory, but maybe I sympathize after all, since that popular essay of The Sopranos' ending convinced me enough to accept that theory.

This is where I'm at. I replayed my ending again this morning, making all the exact same conversation choices I made the first time around. Difference was, this time I was keeping in mind all of the - very convincing - arguments for the indoctrination theory. While still very convincing, I'm not personally convinced that's what is happening. I could be wrong though, and that, I think, is part of the fun.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

That was epic.

And I was out for the debate on the previous pages. But essentially the Galaxy is exactly the same in terms of tech, with the exception of No Geth or Edi for Destroy.

Space Magic is very specific in only targeting synethic life. Why it only targets synthetic life and not all computers? Space Magic. Why it can't be limited to only affect Reapers? Space magic. Shepard living goes to show that, and Vent Kid essentially says that. The only evidence to the contrary is the Normandy getting blowed up, but that is plothole number 18 regarding the Normandy. And Space magic.

Without the Relays everything changes.

 

[Moofers]

The Forbes being awesome again.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ewpost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20120322

Damn man. That guy is batting 1000. I think Forbes is going to have to be a regular stop for me from now on. Who knew?

 

[UnluckyKate]

Calling what? quick summary

The whole mess. From the hordes of angry fans to the funding for new ending. Also a nice comment about bioware advertising me2 as a huge community feedback driven game where me3 just says fuck you

 

[SEGAvangelist]

The Lost and Sopranos comparisons aren't fair. Those are not interactive forms of entertainment. Also, neither property was expected to continue after the ending, so speculation can work, and questions and interpretation can be fun. You also didn't have to pay 60 bucks and be lied to about all your questions being answered.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Without the Relays everything changes.

Essentially the same between all three colors of ending, to clarify.

The galaxy is entirely fucked no matter what you choose.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

The Lost and Sopranos comparisons aren't fair. Those are not interactive forms of entertainment. Also, neither property was expected to continue after the ending, so speculation can work, and questions and interpretation can be fun. You also didn't have to pay 60 bucks and be lied to about all your questions being answered.

Plus, I don't think there was ever any doubt that some form of DLC would be available for ME3. I'm not aware of DLC for TV shows.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

 

[Vamphuntr]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

Because Bioware wrote it in a way that you can't refuse what he says. Shepard can't say no.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

Not sure, but I am sure most people don't accept it, and there is not an option to do anything about it. Another reason it's a poo ending.

 

[Wiggum2007]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

Because Shepard can't refute it lol

 

[Rebel Leader]

Damn man. That guy is batting 1000. I think Forbes is going to have to be a regular stop for me from now on. Who knew?

Is this the same guy that wrote all of the previous articles?

 

[sTeLioSco]

 

[Omega]

Good thing Mac Walters wasn't the lead writer on ME1.

Game would have been over when you bring Tali's evidence to the Council. Shepard wouldn't question them once the Salarian says the Reapers are just a myth to keep it high level.

 

[Hartt951]

So, I've been gone for the past two days. I saw the Bioware GM's statement, but other than that have I missed anything good? Any news/marauder shields saving the day kind of stuff?

 

[K' Dash]

This is not good at all, making a true ending means that we would have to pay for, it will be only the beginning, soon you'll have to buy new, or a season pass or whatever shit to get the fucking ending, you want a nice wrap up? pay for it.

I said it years ago, and now it's finally happening, fuck that shit.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Last pic is a lie. Too many colors

 

[Trey]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

For the reasons outlined above; you don't have a choice. How are we to know the salarians or some other race won't just reinstitute the genophage or that the Quarians will maintain their tentative peace with the geth? You don't.

 

[Salaadin]

For the reasons outlined above; you don't have a choice. How are we to know the salarians or some other race won't just reinstitute the genophage or that the Quarians will maintain their tentative peace with the geth? You don't.

This is one of the bigger problems with the ending.

The whole game is about unifying every race. At the end, ghost boy pretty much says none of that matters and that youll still be destroyed unless you pick 1 of the 3 choices. And then Shepard just accepts that depsite the fact that he spent 3 games doing the impossible and find ways to make things work. Now he just goes "welp! thats that" and trudges forward towards whichever colored tube he wants.

 

[littleworm]

This is not good at all, making a true ending means that we would have to pay for, it will be only the beginning, soon you'll have to buy new, or a season pass or whatever shit to get the fucking ending, you want a nice wrap up? pay for it.

I said it years ago, and now it's finally happening, fuck that shit.

If this turns out to be the case people will stop buying games on day 1. The consumers put up with a lot of bulllshit but this would be too far.

 

[Gileadxv]

At this point, I'm just really hoping Shepard wakes up, and it was all a dream. As he stumbles into the bathroom, he finds he is standing in the office of the Architect, who is methodically stroking the fur of his pet polar bear. What happens next is a 45 minute soliloquy on whether art imitates life, or life imitates art. In enters the Illusive Man, who we find out is actually Miranda, who is actually her own father. Together, they sit down and dine on Krogan made falafel's while watching midget Salarian wrestling.

THIS is the ending I demand.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Because Bioware wrote it in a way that you can't refuse what he says. Shepard can't say no.

Not sure, but I am sure most people don't accept it, and there is not an option to do anything about it. Another reason it's a poo ending.

Because Shepard can't refute it lol

Well geez, I know that lol, but some people would rather trust the Reapers over what's right in front of their eyes. It just astounds me.

 

[CaptainSchwann]

Lol I needed that laugh today. Ign part is especially true.

 

[Complistic]

http://mod.gib.me/masseffect3/testdump.txt

Gib (the guy that makes the save game editor) found some notes that go with the cutscenes in the game.

[biod_end002_600epilogue_loc_int.end004_finale_v_d.end004_finale_v_dlg]
1: We see a child, maybe they look a little bit asari, a little bit human. They are looking at the stars on a planet some 10,000 years after the events of the game.
2: There is an older male here as well, the child looks to the "grandfather" and asks...

oh dear

 

[heliosRAzi]

For when people say Shepard is indoctrinated

[biod_end002_300timconflict_loc_int.end002_illusive_man_m_d.end002_illusive_man_m_dlg]
1: Shepard enters the room and sees Anderson Slumped over a console.
2: Anderson doesn't respond at first, then turns oddly, stiffly around and takes a few struggling steps toward Shepard.
3: FOVO LINES BELOW: DO NOT EDIT
4: IM uses a bit of control mojo on Shepard.. jerking Shepard's arm towards Anderson.
5: Illusive Man kills himself.
6: Walks over and speaks quietly/persuasively to Shepard

Also, indoctrination isn't mentioned anywhere in that document

 

[SEGAvangelist]

 

[RDreamer]

Why do some people readily accept the Catalyst's assertion that synthetics will wipe out all life?

If you don't accept it, then you can pick the destroy option and use the catalyst as it was meant and built to do. If you think that eventually won't happen again, then congrats you've ended the cycle, and the galaxy can live on without the reapers coming every 50,000 years.

Remember, though, his statement is obviously colored by the fact that the reapers believe they are perfect and an inevitable evolution of synthetic life.

 

[heliosRAzi]

If you don't accept it, then you can pick the destroy option and use the catalyst as it was meant and built to do. If you think that eventually won't happen again, then congrats you've ended the cycle, and the galaxy can live on without the reapers coming every 50,000 years.

But then I've committed genocide.

 

[Trey]

This is one of the bigger problems with the ending.

The whole game is about unifying every race. At the end, ghost boy pretty much says none of that matters and that youll still be destroyed unless you pick 1 of the 3 choices. And then Shepard just accepts that depsite the fact that he spent 3 games doing the impossible and find ways to make things work. Now he just goes "welp! thats that" and trudges forward towards whichever colored tube he wants.

I figured from the jump that the ending would boil down a self contained choice, and every single decision leading up to it gave evidence toward that end. Each decision made is in a vacuum with respect to the game, with literally cosmetic changes being the difference between potential consequences. No decision outright influences the game. They all influence you, the player.

So the ending could not be anything other than a decision with respect to how the game influenced you, the player. Through you adventures, your individual person would be biased toward one of the decisions based on the impact the results of your decisions left upon you, and just your own beliefs as a person.

Where I feel Bioware dropped the ball, however, is the explanation of a god-like being granting Shepard this decision, and all the retarded shit that follows. It's not hard to comprehend--it even makes about as much "sense" as the rest of the game--it's just jarring and quite unnecessary. The resolution with TIM ended unsatisfactorily as well. He turned out to be Saren-lite.

The major problem is that Bioware wanted to leave fans speculating, but it had quite the opposite effect. There is no mystery to what happened. No tidbit or incongruity that leaves open potential plot strands or gives depth to the universe. It's just a boring overwrite that shares no thematic consistency with the rest of the Mass Effect universe. It's just something that happens, really. RoboGod told Shepard shit's about to go down, the Reapers just reap, deal with it. Only reaction you could have is "whatever." There's nothing more to go one, and the stakes are merely handed to you out of thin air almost.

 

[VeryGooster]

Plus, I don't think there was ever any doubt that some form of DLC would be available for ME3. I'm not aware of DLC for TV shows.

There go my hopes for Sopranos' "Whatever Happened to the Russian?" DLC.

 

[flyover]

The major problem is that Bioware wanted to leave fans speculating, but it had quite the opposite effect. There is no mystery to what happened. No tidbit or incongruity that leaves open potential plot strands or gives depth to the universe. It's just a boring overwrite that shares no thematic consistency with the rest of the Mass Effect universe. It's just something that happens, really.

This is a really good summation.

 

[RDreamer]

But then I've committed genocide.

I'm sorry? Some of the makers of the crucible just didn't give a shit about the consequences. From talking with Javik the protheans especially had a policy of killing synthetics without hesitation and eliminating reapers and/or synthetics with no prejudice. That's what the crucible does. You had it hinted to you throughout the game that no one knew how it would work or if there'd be a fuckton of collateral damage. In fact it was feared by Shepard himself if I remember correctly that there would be collateral damage.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

There go my hopes for Sopranos' "Whatever Happened to the Russian?" DLC.

Don't worry, I'm sure they're just waiting for Bioware to set the precedent for slaughtering artistic integrity. We'll see plenty of alterations and additions to our favorite movies and TV shows after this, I'd imagine.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I'm sorry? Some of the makers of the crucible just didn't give a shit about the consequences.

That much is true. For some reason, they didn't like Big Ben.

From talking with Javik the protheans especially had a policy of killing synthetics without hesitation and eliminating reapers and/or synthetics with no prejudice.

From talking with Javik, it's pretty clear that they are imperialist assholes who would commit genocide just because the Protheans were stronger. From that, you can guess that the Protheans were the aggressors in their war with the synthetics.

 

[RyanDG]

But then I've committed genocide.

Fortunately my Shepherd was okay with this. For the greater good.

With that said, I'm still working on digesting the ending. While I don't necessarily give into the full indoctrination theory, I think that there is enough 'evidence' to say that in the ending we were given there are enough holdovers that either A) Bioware was still attempting you to get some sort of interpretation that you were indoctrinated or fighting against Reaper control in the entire sequence on the citadel (leading to your final choice of either being indoctrinated or fighting it off) or B) Completely dropped the ball on the ending of the game and rushed an ending out at the last moment when realizing that they needed to wrap it up. If B) really is the case, it's a true shame, because option A) the indoctrination theory does have some nice arguments that tie things together neatly and could've been used to give us a true 'real' ending once the sequence with Anderson/Illusive man and the star child play out (cutting the normandy crew stuff and jumping straight forward to shephard's breath in the 'destroy' good ending).

 

[SEGAvangelist]

That much is true. For some reason, they didn't like Big Ben.

But your War Assets can save Big Ben. With the combined forces of all organic life, Shepard created a special mass relay explosion resistant coating that was applied to Big Ben just before the blast. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!

 

[RDreamer]

That much is true. For some reason, they didn't like Big Ben.


From talking with Javik, it's pretty clear that they are imperialist assholes who would commit genocide just because the Protheans were stronger. From that, you can guess that the Protheans were the aggressors in their war with the synthetics.

The reality is that the entire game was based on the deus ex machina of using the technology partially or mostly thought of by imperialist assholes mixed in with the technology of the very creatures yore tryin to wipe out. You can't exactly be surprised that the three choices are prothean or reaper choices, considering the tool being used. Again, I think the destroy function is the original intended use of the crucible. It's what the protheans worked toward. The other solutions are modifications of that tool by the reaper ai/vi. They make sense in that context and the similarity of the consequences make sense in that context.

 

[Zomba13]

I still don't get why Big Ben was still standing at the end when pretty much any other building that tall was knocked down. Did the reapers keep it up because they don't have any watches and needed to know the time?

Also, the Crucible wasn't made by the Protheans. It was a combined effort of all the cycles since the reapers started reaping. A very small amount of it was pure Prothean design much like a very small amount was pure human. The Protheans did keep the plans though, much like Liara did in her time capsules.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I still don't get why Big Ben was still standing at the end when pretty much any other building that tall was knocked down. Did the reapers keep it up because they don't have any watches and needed to know the time?

Big Ben is lost in the explosion, without the high tech mass relay explosion resistant coating. You need to replay the game to get the ultimate ending. SHEPARD SAVES TIME ITSELF!!!

 

[Complistic]

I still don't get why Big Ben was still standing at the end when pretty much any other building that tall was knocked down. Did the reapers keep it up because they don't have any watches and needed to know the time?

Also, the Crucible wasn't made by the Protheans. It was a combined effort of all the cycles since the reapers started reaping. A very small amount of it was pure Prothean design much like a very small amount was pure human. The Protheans did keep the plans though, much like Liara did in her time capsules.

If they knocked it down then you wouldn't know it was london.

You know other than the red telephone booths. Which are umm still around for some reason.

 

[heliosRAzi]

The reality is that the entire game was based on the deus ex machina of using the technology partially or mostly thought of by imperialist assholes mixed in with the technology of the very creatures yore tryin to wipe out.

The Protheans only contributed a small part to the Crucible since it has been under development in the previous cycles.

You can't exactly be surprised that the three choices are prothean or reaper choices, considering the tool being used.

I can when I've been told that we wouldn't get an A, B, or C ending.

Again, I think the destroy function is the original intended use of the crucible.

The only intended use for the Crucible is that it would stop the Reapers. How it would stop the Reapers, most of us and the characters in the game assumed that it would simply destroy the reapers. Apparently, some of the other cycles felt that we should "synthesize" or control the reapers.

In the end, the ending was pretty shitty.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

If they knocked it down then you wouldn't know it was london.

You know other than the red telephone booths. Which are umm still around for some reason.

This one doesn't bother me as much. I mean... they still keep the Royals around.

 

[Zomba13]

I honestly expected the crucible to like, wipe out all life or something. Like, the final choice was take your chances with your army or use the device to give the next cycle a fresh start. Like, throughout the game people were 'it's a doomsday weapon that will destroy the reapers... or maybe not. We don't have a clue what it does'. Kinda disappointed me that the two options most talked about throughout the game (destroying them and controlling them) were both built into the device.

 

[Alchemy]

The trick is that EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY IS DEAD BECAUSE THE RELAYS EXPLODED.

Not sure what there is to speculate.

 

[RDreamer]

The Protheans only contributed a small part to the Crucible since it has been under development in the previous cycles.

I realize this, but the Protheans are the biggest evidence of what the last cycles were like in the game. They were imperialist assholes. The game goes pretty far to tell you this cycle was a bit different than every other one.

The only intended use for the Crucible is that it would stop the Reapers. How it would stop the Reapers, most of us and the characters in the game assumed that it would simply destroy the reapers.

They assumed it would destroy the reapers and feared it would destroy more than that. Remember, they're using reaper power as a way to amplify it. Also, I'd be willing to bed that there were a great many civilizations that built it with the knowledge that the consequences of destroying all synthetics would be fine and dandy as consequences of the getting rid of the reapers. A large number of synthetics now is a small price to pay for getting rid of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years worth of subjection by the reapers.

Apparently, some of the other cycles felt that we should "synthesize" or control the reapers.

Again, you are presented with modified solutions to the problem previously solved by the reapers. These modified solutions are because of the addition of the crucible but are not necessarily part of the design of the crucible. I believe they are solutions modified by the reaper ai/vi in order to self preserve or even possibly get you on their side. Basically you decided to use their tech against them, and then when faced with that sort of thing they modified that tech and in a way use it against you to gain other solutions to their perceived problem. The people in the other cycles that thought they should control the reapers were also indoctrinated. Remember, the Prothean AI/VI talks about this. He says that every cycle has those that wish to control.

 

[Jarmel]

There go my hopes for Sopranos' "Whatever Happened to the Russian?" DLC.

Disappointment. I would pay good money for that.

 

[hateradio]

The trick is that EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY IS DEAD BECAUSE THE RELAYS EXPLODED.

Not sure what there is to speculate.

There is some speculation that the Catalyst's blast did not detonate the relays in a destructive way. That the relay's energy was first used, and then the device destroyed.

They could have answered so many things so easily, but they decided not to.

Again, you are presented with modified solutions to the problem previously solved by the reapers. These modified solutions are because of the addition of the crucible but are not necessarily part of the design of the crucible. I believe they are solutions modified by the reaper ai/vi in order to self preserve or even possibly get you on their side. Basically you decided to use their tech against them, and then when faced with that sort of thing they modified that tech and in a way use it against you to gain other solutions to their perceived problem. The people in the other cycles that thought they should control the reapers were also indoctrinated. Remember, the Prothean AI/VI talks about this. He says that every cycle has those that wish to control.

That's a pretty big assumption. I don't think the AI/VI changed the choices around just to preserve itself. It appears to lack any interest in the choices. It also admits to not being able to do anything without Shepard's decision. I don't think the Catalyst had a dubious intent aside from exposing a few facts, like everything explodes. Besides, it controls the Reapers, so it's not "the reaper ai/vi" it's the program that controls the Reapers. They do what it wants, not the other way around.

It and the Reapers become useless/destroyed with both synthesis and destroy option. I believe that in all the cut scenes the catalyst disappears. If you chose control, then you become the new master, but that's not a win for the Reapers. I also don't think the claim that synthesis is what the Catalyst wants is substantial. It believes that the cycle may end if there are only hybrids, but it also destroys its purpose.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Again, you are presented with modified solutions to the problem previously solved by the reapers. These modified solutions are because of the addition of the crucible but are not necessarily part of the design of the crucible. I believe they are solutions modified by the reaper ai/vi in order to self preserve or even possibly get you on their side. Basically you decided to use their tech against them, and then when faced with that sort of thing they modified that tech and in a way use it against you to gain other solutions to their perceived problem. The people in the other cycles that thought they should control the reapers were also indoctrinated. Remember, the Prothean AI/VI talks about this. He says that every cycle has those that wish to control.

I pretty much agree.

They could have answered so many things so easily, but they decided not to.

Gotta get that speculation