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[StalkerUKCG]

Why is my Shepard synthetic?, I get that i have some none organic parts in me but thats different from being a synthetic, the only thing the lazarus project showed that wasnt organic was some little cybernetic implants which id argue is much different from being synthetic.

If Synthetic includes those its safe to say that Organics got merged with toasters aswell.

 

[Jake Tower]

Javik the Dick is a worthy companion to Marauder Shields.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Javik the Dick is a worthy companion to Marauder Shields.

I'd like to see a buddy cop movie involving them

 

[RDreamer]

Isn't the Citadel way bigger than the relays?

Why a short time? Do you assume they keep back-ups outside the galaxy? It'd be only prudent, I suppose... So for them it'b be the best option, if they are committed to their program. But what about the species they 'conserved'? It'd be a bummer to lose all those, surely.

Again, you cannot approach this from your perspective, or from Shepard's perspective. From the reaper's perspective they are the ultimate evolution of synthetics. They are an inevitability. And, from the last conversation with star child, he says that synthetics exist again and will, again, war with organics. You can deny this from your perspective all you want, but that's what the reapers want you to believe, and what they'd want Sheperd to believe.

I don't know. My Shepard united the Geth and Quarians. Don't think he'll be easily convinced. Regardless, it's not a safe choice for them.\

He wouldn't need to be convinced. He would literally become them. If you watch the scene, he becomes a synthetic. It's kind of like if someone walked a mile in your shoes they'd suddenly understand your life. That's kind of what I think this to be like. And, again, every other cycle has had those indoctrinated arguing for controlling the reapers. They are obviously not concerned about this.

Supposedly, because who says there'll be no galaxy wide conflict, even between species who now all have something in common (which all life already did).

No one says there wouldn't be. But essentially, in the reapers eyes, everyone would be perfect synthetics like them, with that ending. They would gain the perspective and the capabilities of the reapers.

Again, the problem is from the reapers perspective. From their perspective the synthetics represent perfection and order. Organics represent chaos and imperfection. They preserve organic life within themselves in order to create a hybrid of the two.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Again, you cannot approach this from your perspective, or from Shepard's perspective. From the reaper's perspective they are the ultimate evolution of synthetics. They are an inevitability. And, from the last conversation with star child, he says that synthetics exist again and will, again, war with organics. You can deny this from your perspective all you want, but that's what the reapers want you to believe, and what they'd want Sheperd to believe.



He wouldn't need to be convinced. He would literally become them. If you watch the scene, he becomes a synthetic. It's kind of like if someone walked a mile in your shoes they'd suddenly understand your life. That's kind of what I think this to be like. And, again, every other cycle has had those indoctrinated arguing for controlling the reapers. They are obviously not concerned about this.



No one says there wouldn't be. But essentially, in the reapers eyes, everyone would be perfect synthetics like them, with that ending. They would gain the perspective and the capabilities of the reapers.

Again, the problem is from the reapers perspective. From their perspective the synthetics represent perfection and order. Organics represent chaos and imperfection. They preserve organic life within themselves in order to create a hybrid of the two.

I think what most people have a problem with is that we can't tell the Catalyst/Reapers to go fuck themselves.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I'd like to see a buddy cop movie involving them

Blasto and Bubin

 

[heliosRAzi]

 

[DTKT]

Do you make the strips?

Because they are amazing.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Do you make the strips?

Because they are amazing.

Skoolmunkee is making them in the ME3 spoiler thread on SomethingAwful

 

[Rapstah]

Isn't the Citadel way bigger than the relays?

The Sol system relay was thought to be a moon orbiting Pluto in their universe, and Pluto's moon Charon has a mean radius of 603.5 km. I'd say mass relays are pretty fucking huge. Do we have any information on how big the Citadel is?

And besides, who's saying mass relays can't teleport anything bigger than they are?

EDIT: ME wiki claims the Citadel has a diameter of 45 km when open, which couldn't possibly make it over 4-500 in length.

EDIT 2: Make that 45 km long. That's pretty short...?

 

[RDreamer]

I think what most people have a problem with is that we can't tell the Catalyst/Reapers to go fuck themselves.

And again, I ask what then?

The game practically beat you over the head with the fact that the crucible was literally the only way they were going to win this thing. They repeated it over and over again. What exactly were you going to do after you told them to go fuck themselves? They'd just say sure thing while they harvested everyone.

The Sol system relay was thought to be a moon orbiting Pluto in their universe, and Pluto's moon Charon has a mean radius of 603.5 km. I'd say mass relays are pretty fucking huge. Do we have any information on how big the Citadel is?

And besides, who's saying mass relays can't teleport anything bigger than they are?

I'm not saying they can't. I was more just curious. And the thought of something teleporting throughout the relay in the same way as the ship but being bigger than the relay seems kind of comical to me for some reason.

 

[inky]

[Javik Comic Strips]

These are great!

Then you're a fool.

 

[heliosRAzi]

And again, I ask what then?

The game practically beat you over the head with the fact that the crucible was literally the only way they were going to win this thing. They repeated it over and over again. What exactly were you going to do after you told them to go fuck themselves? They'd just say sure thing while they harvested everyone..

Well, the game says a lot of stuff and then does the opposite.

I received this from a friend who just beat ME3. This was his solution to the ending problem:

Proposal is as follows:
There should be a fourth option available at the end - and the beauty of it is that it would naturally branch in a way that satisfies both of the outcomes people are asking for.

Right now, the Guardian presents us with three options - destroy, control, and merge. Each are depressingly self-destructive in their own ways, and as we all know, we have no choice but to pick one. DLC could add a fourth option: REFUSE.

Shepard stabs a defiant finger in the Guardian's chest and declares it is not their right to "protect" us from the consequences of our own actions. If peace was forged between the Quarians and the Geth, Shepard cites that as proof that the Guardian's premise of inevitable conflict between synthetics and organics is wrong. If not, Shepard can simply deny the Guardian's conclusion and declare that we're going to go down fighting. Shepard delivers an ultimatum: take your abominations and go. Whether we live as a civilization or die by our own hand is a choice to be left to every one of us. So, f*** you very much, but thanks for thinking of us.

The Guardian blows off Shepard's ultimatum, and the Reapers continue to fight. At this point, the outcome is out of your hands. Shepard watches, unable to intervene, as the fleets continue to engage, the forces of the galaxy attempting to defeat the Reapers once and for all in conventional combat. The Guardian taunts you, trying to goad you into choosing one of the three options it offered, while assuming the forms of different people you've lost along the way: Virmire casualty, Anderson, and your love interest, dead or alive, just to screw with you. You can change your mind, or continue to stand and watch. If you gathered enough war assets (as in, much higher than the required amount for the "perfect" ending we're given now), the Reapers are defeated at horrific cost, but the Relay network remains intact, and Shepard gets to reunite with his/her LI and squad provided the Normandy survived the fight (itself dependent on other criteria). This would be the hardest ending to achieve, requiring the greatest effort and providing the most reward. You would really have to work your ass off to do this, but as evidenced by this poll, most of the people here would be willing to try.

If you didn't have enough resources, the Reapers emerge victorious, and, having defeated the combined military might of the galaxy, they are free to harvest everyone else. The cycle continues. They win. Either way, you get to spit in the devil's face once more instead of bowing to the invariably self-destructive choice he offers you.

Me: I personally think this solution would be profound. Furthermore, it really gives five endings for the game. If you we're not fully prepared for the war, then Shepherd allows the Reapers to win without sacrificing his integrity (which would be a major win in my book). Finally, if you were fully prepared then you receive the most rewarding ending possible with what I think could potentially be one of the most creative boss fights in gaming history...a battle of wills alone.

This has its problems, but I think it's a lot better

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

And again, I ask what then?

The game practically beat you over the head with the fact that the crucible was literally the only way they were going to win this thing. They repeated it over and over again. What exactly were you going to do after you told them to go fuck themselves? They'd just say sure thing while they harvested everyone.

They also say the Reapers are almost impossible to take down, then in one game have you give a major league fucking to 3 of them.
I bet the full green bar forces would have won.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Somebody complained earlier that the ending ruined Mansell for them, or at least that piece of his work.

Well, I don't agree with that. But if I did, it is more than balanced by watching Vent Kid get blown up to "Leaving Earth" playing the background.

 

[RDreamer]

Well, the game says a lot of stuff and then does the opposite.

Ending possibility

I've actually been mulling that very possibility in my head, and I'd agree it would absolutely be the best way to handle things. I think it'd be interesting sitting there having Hackett and them screaming at you to use the device, because they're being slaughtered and having to just wait it out. I'd only agree to that, though, if the galaxy was seriously devastated from choosing that option, since the game makes it painfully clear that that's really barely an option at all.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Somebody complained earlier that the ending ruined Mansell for them, or at least that piece of his work.

Well, I don't agree with that. But if I did, it is more than balanced by watching Vent Kid get blown up to "Leaving Earth" playing the background.

I don't agree either. That music was the best part of the ending

I've actually been mulling that very possibility in my head, and I'd agree it would absolutely be the best way to handle things. I think it'd be interesting sitting there having Hackett and them screaming at you to use the device, because they're being slaughtered and having to just wait it out. I'd only agree to that, though, if the galaxy was seriously devastated from choosing that option, since the game makes it painfully clear that that's really barely an option at all.

Well, the galaxy is seriously devastated with the given endings anyway, might as well let the collective might of the galaxy cause it than space magic.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Somebody complained earlier that the ending ruined Mansell for them, or at least that piece of his work.

Well, I don't agree with that. But if I did, it is more than balanced by watching Vent Kid get blown up to "Leaving Earth" playing the background.

I will always like the music. Mansell is great. Love the music in The Fountain.

 

[RDreamer]

I don't agree either. That music was the best part of the ending

That music was astoundingly good.

Actually while the script and the ideas that went into the ending were rather bad, the execution of the ending set to that music was pretty sublimely good, I think.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The Sol system relay was thought to be a moon orbiting Pluto in their universe, and Pluto's moon Charon has a mean radius of 603.5 km. I'd say mass relays are pretty fucking huge. Do we have any information on how big the Citadel is?

And besides, who's saying mass relays can't teleport anything bigger than they are?

EDIT: ME wiki claims the Citadel has a diameter of 45 km when open, which couldn't possibly make it over 4-500 in length.

EDIT 2: Make that 45 km long. That's pretty short...?

It unknown how big a relay is, id say 603.6KM is a bit too big.
Id say the citadel being 30 mile long is pretty big, I mean thats each arm (of which their is 5) from tip to tip without including the central ring which is said to be about 4.3 mile

Thats 154 mile of tightly packed habitable area

 

[RDreamer]

Weird, I didn't think the Citadel was that small compared to the relays. I guess I need to watch the docking sequences and relay sequences again with that in mind, but in my brain right now the Normandy looks bigger compared to the relay than compared to the Citadel. Guess I'll pay more attention next time I play the game.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Weird, I didn't think the Citadel was that small compared to the relays. I guess I need to watch the docking sequences and relay sequences again with that in mind, but in my brain right now the Normandy looks bigger compared to the relay than compared to the Citadel. Guess I'll pay more attention next time I play the game.

I think your pretty far away from a Relay when you use one, getting to close it its core could do some nasty things to a ship id imagine.

 

[Jake Tower]

 

[APZonerunner]

Why is my Shepard synthetic?, I get that i have some none organic parts in me but thats different from being a synthetic, the only thing the lazarus project showed that wasnt organic was some little cybernetic implants which id argue is much different from being synthetic.

If Synthetic includes those its safe to say that Organics got merged with toasters aswell.

I figured that the point was that the synthetic parts they added to you are very much what's keeping you alive, so if they got fried in the explosion they'd probably get fried as well. Since you can live in that ending, though, there's a chance, I suppose, that the Catalyst just miscalculated that, or it was deliberate misdirection.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

It unknown how big a relay is, id say 603.6KM is a bit too big.
Id say the citadel being 30 mile long is pretty big, I mean thats each arm (of which their is 5) from tip to tip without including the central ring which is said to be about 4.3 mile

Thats 154 mile of tightly packed habitable area

I think this is largely a pointless exercise, but does the size of the mass relay really matter?

There is no indication of a mass limitation. The video evidence indicates that it is really just a super-accelerator. You never actually enter, you just fly beside the energy discharge which launches you to the next relay.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I think this is largely a pointless exercise, but does the size of the mass relay really matter?

There is no indication of a mass limitation. The video evidence indicates that it is really just a super-accelerator. You never actually enter, you just fly beside the energy discharge which launches you to the next relay.

Yeah its completely viable that it could charge something of a much larger proportion than itself, its the only viable explanation of how the citadel got to earth that quick

I figured that the point was that the synthetic parts they added to you are very much what's keeping you alive, so if they got fried in the explosion they'd probably get fried as well. Since you can live in that ending, though, there's a chance, I suppose, that the Catalyst just miscalculated that, or it was deliberate misdirection.

Or its another plot hole. Bioware really goofed with the ending didnt they

 

[Alchemy]

I think this is largely a pointless exercise, but does the size of the mass relay really matter?

There is no indication of a mass limitation. The video evidence indicates that it is really just a super-accelerator. You never actually enter, you just fly beside the energy discharge which launches you to the next relay.

I can't possibly imagine the size of the relays meaning anything regarding the size of the ships using them, because we'd run into really stupid specific restrictions like mass limitations and recharge rates limiting how often they can fire ships, etc. Its incredibly pointless to speculate about.

 

[Photolysis]

Or its another plot hole. Bioware really goofed with the ending didnt they

Space magic.

 

[APZonerunner]

Or its another plot hole. Bioware really goofed with the ending didnt they

Of all the things wrong with the ending, this one can be explained away fairly easy with not a huge leap of logic, though. Cerberus put a lot of shit in Shepard, so much that his/her face fucking glows. He was a complete wreck in ME2's opening.

 

[jackdoe]

Of all the things wrong with the ending, this one can be explained away fairly easy with not a huge leap of logic, though. Cerberus put a lot of shit in Shepard, so much that his/her face fucking glows. He was a complete wreck in ME2's opening.

Yep. The fact that your face literally glows red if you are renegade kind of shows that Shepard isn't entirely human. On the other hand, having your brain remain mostly intact during atmospheric re-entry without a space ship requires a huge leap in logic which is why I am surprised Bioware didn't go the "Shepard actually died and the current one is a copy" route for this game. They teased it but pretty much killed it if you brought Liara with you (I suppose a telepathic alien should be able to tell if Shepard is a copy or not).

 

[heliosRAzi]

Did Shepard crash onto land? Wouldn't he exploded from the impact or something?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that anyone writing a trilogy needs to change their name and disappear once the royalties from the second episode have dried up.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Space magic.

space magic flavors

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

 

[Rapstah]

Did Shepard crash onto land? Wouldn't he exploded from the impact or something?

Yep, onto ice, you visit the landing site in some really minor and pointless DLC from ME2.

 

[dragonelite]

I think this is largely a pointless exercise, but does the size of the mass relay really matter?

There is no indication of a mass limitation. The video evidence indicates that it is really just a super-accelerator. You never actually enter, you just fly beside the energy discharge which launches you to the next relay.

Don't objects need to tell the relay how much mass they have.
So the relay knows how to calibrate it's mass effect field.

So maybe that is how a citadel can jump through the relays.

And why the asteroid didn't go through the alpha relay.

 

[bigace33]

Why is my Shepard synthetic?, I get that i have some none organic parts in me but thats different from being a synthetic, the only thing the lazarus project showed that wasnt organic was some little cybernetic implants which id argue is much different from being synthetic.

If Synthetic includes those its safe to say that Organics got merged with toasters aswell.

In ME3 they said the only thing left of shepard was his brain. His N7 Helmet apparently protected that from complete destruction. For all intents and purposes, Shepard is a robot with a human brain.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Yep, onto ice, you visit the landing site in some really minor and pointless DLC from ME2.

So he should be a smear on the ice

 

[APZonerunner]

Yep, onto ice, you visit the landing site in some really minor and pointless DLC from ME2.

That's where the Normandy crashed and everybody who didn't make it off and therefore was in the ship's wreckage died, but Shepard, in fairness, could've landed anywhere. He was blown clear of the Normandy and into space. It's never actually said if he ever re-entered orbit or not, I don't think. In one of the books when they talk about the Lazarus project they talk about how his lungs were collapsed due to the impact of the explosion from the Normandy being destroyed completely, which seems to indicate he never made it back to the planet below.

 

[Photolysis]

Did Shepard crash onto land? Wouldn't he exploded from the impact or something?

You'd expect that. But apparently he can survive impacting the ground travelling at orbital velocities without being vaporised by atmospheric re-entry or being turned into a paste on the ground in ME2.

It's almost as if they tried to pretend that never happened in ME3, where the logs at the Cerberus base talk about Shepard being brain-dead due to oxygen deprivation as if that's the biggest problem. Instead of you know, the fact he smashed into a planet after being launched out a space ship going at very fast velocities.

That's where the Normandy crashed and everybody who didn't make it off and therefore was in the ship's wreckage died, but Shepard, in fairness, could've landed anywhere. He was blown clear of the Normandy and into space. It's never actually said if he ever re-entered orbit or not, I don't think. In one of the books when they talk about the Lazarus project they talk about how his lungs were collapsed due to the impact of the explosion from the Normandy being destroyed completely, which seems to indicate he never made it back to the planet below.

He clearly falls into the planet's gravity well, and you can actually see him entering the atmosphere in the intro. Plus you find his helmet on the planet in the DLC.

 

[thetechkid]

So after thinking about it more I still don't like any of the endings. The one I choose was to destroy the Reapers and Geth because its the least stupid ending, but I still have problems with it. Why the hell do I have to destroy the Geth after all that work I did to save both Quarians and Geth and making Legions sacrifice useless? The other choices seem stupid as fuck. Why would I want to control the Reapers and have them leave, what the hell does that even solve? That last one makes even less sense, why fight 3 games to have them all just stop and for no good reason either? Its the same as the other ending but Joker gets to have sexy time with EDI, but its still stupid. I know the points have probably been made 3,587,954 times already but I just wanted to let that out.

 

[Rapstah]

That's where the Normandy crashed and everybody who didn't make it off and therefore was in the ship's wreckage died, but Shepard, in fairness, could've landed anywhere. He was blown clear of the Normandy and into space. It's never actually said if he ever re-entered orbit or not, I don't think. In one of the books when they talk about the Lazarus project they talk about how his lungs were collapsed due to the impact of the explosion from the Normandy being destroyed completely, which seems to indicate he never made it back to the planet below.

You find your helmet on the ground there. I never played Lair of the Shadow Broker, but where the hell would Liara have gotten your corpse from otherwise?

EDIT: And your dog tag I think. Shepard's head didn't really come off, but of course it's ridicolous that whatever landed still had a head. Satellites made out of metal melt completely upon re-entering our atmosphere. This planet had enough atmosphere to have ice, of course you were going to pretty much not exist anymore.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

So after thinking about it more I still don't like any of the endings. The one I choose was to destroy the Reapers and Geth because its the least stupid ending, but I still have problems with it. Why the hell do I have to destroy the Geth after all that work I did to save both Quarians and Geth and making Legions sacrifice useless? The other choices seem stupid as fuck. Why would I want to control the Reapers and have them leave, what the hell does that even solve? That last one makes even less sense, why fight 3 games to have them all just stop and for no good reason either? Its the same as the other ending but Joker gets to have sexy time with EDI, but its still stupid. I know the points have probably been made 3,587,954 times already but I just wanted to let that out.

Reapers rebuild the relays, then Reaper cockfights until there is only one left, blow that one up, Shepard creates himself an Edi body. Problems solved. Control really is the happy ending.

You find your helmet on the ground there. I never played Lair of the Shadow Broker, but where the hell would Liara have gotten your corpse from otherwise?

This. Also pretty sure you see him burning up through reentry as the intro winds down. Comic might address it more specifically, as well, since I think the whole plot is recovering your body.

 

[heliosRAzi]

So after thinking about it more I still don't like any of the endings. The one I choose was to destroy the Reapers and Geth because its the least stupid ending, but I still have problems with it. Why the hell do I have to destroy the Geth after all that work I did to save both Quarians and Geth and making Legions sacrifice useless? The other choices seem stupid as fuck. Why would I want to control the Reapers and have them leave, what the hell does that even solve? That last one makes even less sense, why fight 3 games to have them all just stop and for no good reason either? Its the same as the other ending but Joker gets to have sexy time with EDI, but its still stupid. I know the points have probably been made 3,587,954 times already but I just wanted to let that out.

Welcome.

The answers to your questions is "We have no idea"

 

[thetechkid]

Welcome.

The answers to your questions is "We have no idea"

I know, I'm just mad.

 

[LiK]

haha, that's great

 

[dragonelite]

Welcome.

The answers to your questions is "We have no idea"

You mean "Lots of speculation from everyone" right...

 

[RDreamer]

So after thinking about it more I still don't like any of the endings. The one I choose was to destroy the Reapers and Geth because its the least stupid ending, but I still have problems with it. Why the hell do I have to destroy the Geth after all that work I did to save both Quarians and Geth and making Legions sacrifice useless? The other choices seem stupid as fuck. Why would I want to control the Reapers and have them leave, what the hell does that even solve? That last one makes even less sense, why fight 3 games to have them all just stop and for no good reason either? Its the same as the other ending but Joker gets to have sexy time with EDI, but its still stupid. I know the points have probably been made 3,587,954 times already but I just wanted to let that out.

My theory on that is because that's the crucible's function. If you talk to the Javik the Protheans (the last race to work on the crucible and finish its design) had a pretty hard line on synthetics: You don't take chances. You destroy them no matter what. The way I figure it the only way they figured out how to take out the reapers was to create a pulse that would essentially wipe out synthetics and use the relays to amplify and transmit that pulse. They wouldn't have cared about the damage done to synthetics because what synthetics may have existed in Prothean times at least were destroyed immediately and without mercy.

That is the main function of the crucible. The way I see it the other solutions are modifications by the star child. The control one is basically as sort of trick. Every cycle has had the indoctrinated trying to control the reapers, so it's obvious they don't care about that threat. In my mind it's because in order to control them Shepard must become them. Once he becomes them he will succumb to their logic.

As for the synthesis, that is another modification of the original function. It modifies the pulse. It's a modification done by the star child.

 

[Bruce Lee Kicks]

Has anyone tried Story mode? I don't know if it's just me, but the sensitivity feels faster than usual.

 

[Masaki_]

I read on post on the Bioware forums that made a very good point about this idea of "artistic integrity" Bioware and some of its more defensive fans are trying to hide behind. He basically argues that there was no integrity in the creative process when the final hours of the game contradict basic themes of the trilogy (gameplay and story-wise).

Also, some game writers are worried about the situation, that it may set a precedent. I could think of a more baseless worry, fans dissatisfied with endings is nothing new. It's up to each individual developer how to handle the backlash.

So Bioware can do whatever it wants. Just don't feed us this "artistic integrity" bullshit. Your multi-colored ending(s) are not art and are not good.

Edit: Went a few pages back and grabbed this quote. Someone beat me to it.

But what I think that PC Gamer article lacks is a sense of context. Forget the precedent, forget the principle at stake, and consider Mass Effect 3's ending alone.

It's really, truly awful. It has upset not just a small minority, but the overwhelming majority of devoted fans (reaching around the 90% mark in the two large polls I've seen), and probably disappointed even casual players. At that point it's no longer a question about "aesthetic integrity" or "authorial intent" or anything highfalutin'. It's a question of basic competence, and a stunning failure to deliver on both expectations and bald promises.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Too much. It's too much. I'm dying.