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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
HadesGigas
Member
Nothing about the Joker sequence makes sense.
I'm not sure what scenario would be less horrible. The idea that the relays did destroy most known life except the Normandy crew (who magically got on the ship somehow despite mostly being on Earth), or the relays had smaller explosions that didn't kill many people and then most of known life is stranded in the Sol system staring at a burned out planet Earth with no hope of long term survival.
I didn't say I believed that. It just proves that BioWare had a lot of different ideas going, that only partially make it on the table. There are lines in the game's files where you can hear Joker come in and save the day, which could have related to his flying escape. Honestly, they should have clipped his scene entirely.
There's some other speculation that the force behind him could have been some kind of worm hole. That's how he got on that strange planet. Oh yeah, speculation!
Cosmic love could be a fancy name for space magic.
This is a good comparison. You should write that as a comment on the Forbe's guy's blog.
The universe is full of doppelgangers.
Yeah I've heard that's a similar situation, yet people who said it sucked aren't treated like what most of these "journalists" are doing.
Worst offender is probably the collector base. There's no fucking way they would've been able to salvage those reaper parts to partially rebuild it when I blew that place the hell up.
I liked everything related to Tuchanka in this game though; Wrex/Wreav have very different endings to their plot arcs, with Wrex and Eve hopefully bringing the krogans to a better state and Wreav likely spearheading the second krogan rebellion. Not that any of that matters with the way the game ends
Would've been cool if the story was slightly different had you not done Mordin's loyalty mission, killed him in the suicide mission and had Clan Weryloc running things but Mass Effect has always been about the illusion of choice and not real choice.
thetechkid
Member
I would like to point out something else I didn't like, the Council.
Council in ME1: Shepard you're crazy, its just Saren!
Council in ME2: Shepard you're crazy, theres no such thing as Collectors!
Council in ME3: Shepard help us!
Why did Shepard ever help them?
Council in ME1: Shepard you're crazy, its just Saren!
Council in ME2: Shepard you're crazy, theres no such thing as Collectors!
Council in ME3: Shepard help us!
Why did Shepard ever help them?
bigdaddygamebot
Member
The ignominious death of Kelly Chambers in ME 3...man. I had one whole playthrough to just make her the romantic interest in ME 2.
The way Bioware handled the relationship in ME 3...and then her death. It was so brutal.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
As Warren Spector put it when talking about Deus Ex versus modern games: you're going to have to create a lot of content nobody is ever going see.
In today's world, such a thing is apparently unsustainable. That, an ME3 just feels content starved in many ways which are more important from my perspective than getting a feeling of real consequence.
Honestly, this would be very low on my list of things I would want ME3 to 'not have' or 'change'. The ending being on top.
But then, this game was made on a initial less than 18 (one and a half years) schedule, so what was there to expect in terms of content richness in realistic terms?
Obviously I'm equally disappointed, but I would have preferred if the game had just gotten more time to deal with some issues the game simply possesses.
bloodforge
Member
If all they're going to do is "clarify" the endings I don't think they should even bother, no matter what they clarify it's still going to be the same shitty endings.
Because aliens.
Do you have a video of this? All my crew died in ME2 for some reason.
It would be cool if they made it even dumber: more xzibit plot twists, more plot holes, more vent kids.
Agreed. I think most of the fans are able to clarify the ramifications of the endings fairly well:
- Joker picks up team
- Crucible choice is made
- Normandy runs
- Relays either destroyed all local solar systems or are merely destroyed themselves
- Normandy crash lands
Unless clarify means go with the indoctrination theory, I don't see them really addressing any of the major issues the fans had.
I will be Marauder Shields. I will sacrifice everyone to protect everyone.
Fake this is the real one
Supposedly the original tweet got deleted and the post you quoted was actually there.
Mammothtank
Member
This honestly ruined my entire experience of ME3 once this happened. She said she was afraid of Cerberus finding her so what does she do? "Hey, I'm Kelly Chambers!!!! Shoot me!!!!"
"Stupid girl...*sob*...why'd you have to go and get yourself killed."
I would have enjoyed continuing my romance with Kelly instead of the stale Ashley romance, she acted so cold the entire game.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Apparently you can save her. They try to trick you. She finds meaning with helping the refugees, so you are suggested to tell her to keep doing it. IF you instead say OMG, go hide, Cerberus is going to get you she leaves for a day, comes back and does the same thing, but gets to live.
Unless you are talking about the whole, everybody on the Citadel is probably dead. But, well, that makes every sidequest in the game useless. And then the ending makes every priority quest useless!
But Jacob made it out of the hospital, so apparently at least some people evacuated. Where are they? Who knows, maybe they are repopulating a jungle planet with Joker.
Those are all just assumptions -- speculation if you will.
That's also a pretty big or, and it doesn't explain the reasons why the events you outlined happen. Thus, the ramifications remain unclear.
- Why?
- OK
- Why?
- Which?
- Why did it leave in the first place?
It basically deserts the fleet.
Harbinger comes up and tells Space Child that they created him.
..and I never looked at my art book but it's true. Vent kid is supposed to be a symbol of all the people dying from Earth. Really? Whoever thought of that should burn in hell, as well as everyone who agreed with it.
Aside from the fact that no symbol is even needed, if they wanted a symbol that people would actually give a shit about, they should have just let Anderson die when the Reapers first attacked.
Nope. Instead let's have you kill Anderson. So much better!
Because Harbinger came and put a stomping on everything, and Joker ran off like a scared girl.
If this ending tweak needs to explain anything it's why Harbinger left, not the Normandy.
SerArthurDayne
Member
The follow up tweet is there, so I am inclined to believe this.
Twitter has established they don't know what the fuck they are talking about though, but I would be willing to bet that whoever said it is more likely to know what Bioware are doing than I am. But basically what they said is exactly how I read Muyzka's blog post.
Antiochus
Member
I suspect for those who do not ipso facto, expect, and treat, their playthrough of the game as working through a complex, branching RPG and instead view it more as a linear cover shooter a la COD, Gears of War, BF3, etc. while taking the story at face value and go along with it will be MUCH more well disposed to the ending.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Mammothtank
Member
The dream sequences would have been far more impactful to me if they actually featured the fallen. Perhaps even reliving the destruction of the first Normandy. There's so much they could have done with these, yet all they ended up doing was annoying me everytime one started, completely pointless.
With the exception of the relays (which is either the instant death of trillions to the slow death of billions), explanations behind the motivations of the events really wouldn't change the ending for me. The outcome is still the same: a broken galaxy with your crew stranded. Knowing why Joker broke character or was pulled from the battle doesn't change the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a planet. In the state Bioware left the ME universe, I don't even really care about seeing an ending epilogue concerning the whereabouts of each species after the finale. I can definitely understand why people want more of an explanation surrounding the game's ending, but my personal issues with the ending extend beyond the plot holes and vagueness of the current ending.
thetechkid
Member
If you went through quick flashbacks of past events(the squad member choice in ME1 for example) and who you lost, that would be 100 times better than creeper Shepard chasing the kid.
If it was dead Kaidan or Ashley, maybe that would work better.
Obviously "Reapers" aren't a real threat. That's why Harby didn't need to be mentioned.Because Harbinger came and put a stomping on everything, and Joker ran off like a scared girl.
If this ending tweak needs to explain anything it's why Harbinger left, not the Normandy.
I actually have less issue with the vagueness of the current situation with regards to everyone stranded on our solar system. They simply face hard times ahead.
I guess a simple info dump won't help clear that up, since it doesn't need to be stated that a new dark age looms ahead.
So true.
It's sad they they spent all this time on character interaction and yet use this little kid as a cheap emotion device.
Your ME1 squadmate you let die on Virmire. The Normandy SR1 being destroyed. All the deaths in ME3.
This little kid ruins replay value. I loved the game, but I refuse to go through it again because of those stupid dream sequences. Not only do I not care about him, they're annoying.
Apophenia Overload
Member
ME 3 is the best meta-game.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Has anyone else thought about the opposite "paragon/renegade" colors with the ending?
I almost get the feeling they were going for a shitty/poorly done SMT style concept, with the Law/Paragon ending being about order and the "greater good" (By the metric of the higher power at any rate. Anyone who's played SMT knows that God is a dick.), and the Chaos/Renegade ending being about letting things happen without any intervention, even if it means death and destruction.
Thats really the only explanation I can think of for the colors to be reversed from what you'd expect given everything else in the series.
I almost get the feeling they were going for a shitty/poorly done SMT style concept, with the Law/Paragon ending being about order and the "greater good" (By the metric of the higher power at any rate. Anyone who's played SMT knows that God is a dick.), and the Chaos/Renegade ending being about letting things happen without any intervention, even if it means death and destruction.
Thats really the only explanation I can think of for the colors to be reversed from what you'd expect given everything else in the series.
It's not really inconsistent with the rest of the series. In almost all cases, Renegade is the option that hurts or destroys people, and Paragon is the option that avoids bloodshed. The ending fits just fine with that idea. Compare it to Legion's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2. The Paragon option there is to forcibly brainwash an entire culture, while the Renegade option is to simply destroy them. It's hard to argue that the Renegade option in that case isn't the more humane, and the Paragon option the more monstrous of your choices.
The only reason it's kind of weird in the ending is that the series has a bad habit of conflating Paragon with Good and Renegade with Evil, and through that lens it seems pretty weird that Anderson would be "Evil" while TIM would be "Good".
The only reason it's kind of weird in the ending is that the series has a bad habit of conflating Paragon with Good and Renegade with Evil, and through that lens it seems pretty weird that Anderson would be "Evil" while TIM would be "Good".
I don't really think the colors are reversed, obviously if you believe in the theory the red option is the true "paragon" response but taken as what they are, the colors are appropriate.
On a side note, Mars still stands out as my favorite set of songs in the OST. Even if the mission itself was a little barebones, the music plus the storm and overall atmosphere of the place was great. Wish Sam Hulick did more in the game.
On a side note, Mars still stands out as my favorite set of songs in the OST. Even if the mission itself was a little barebones, the music plus the storm and overall atmosphere of the place was great. Wish Sam Hulick did more in the game.
I want them to "further explain" the endings by picking back up with Shephard still on Earth and run with the indoctrination theory whether they intended it or not. To really make the game better for me they'd have to go back too far and change too much to be feasible. Indoctrination theory intrigues and pleases me and continuing on from that would be the ideal option(s) for me.
I don't want a further explanation of the ending because it'll still be sucktacular.
I don't want a further explanation of the ending because it'll still be sucktacular.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Sometimes I think people complaining about the lack of truly significant plot divergences have been playing a different series to me. Or, most likely, do not understand the difficulty of making a game like this, and assume BioWare has unlimited time and resources.
Games aren't made with good intentions and space magic.
Games aren't made with good intentions and space magic.
I don't feel they'll have a budget to pull that off in a satisfactory manner judging by how they've handled this situation.
3 of the items he listed could've had bigger differences without a whole lot of work. I feel like they should've removed the Rachni mission if you killed them on Noveria but someone probably had an issue with cutting off that much content from players without an ME1 save. They wouldn't even have to lose the unit which barely looks like a Rachni as is, just tweak the design slightly to make it a reaper mix of a Klixen and some other race.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Obsidian works with buggy space magic I guess
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah. I don't even mind the cheerleading for video games to be honest. But attack people for an opinion that happens to differ from yours? Jeez.
Not that it'd make much of a difference, but at least it'd be a middle finger to those "vocal minority" folks. Vote, if you're unhappy with the ending:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...-should-bioware-change-mass-effect-3s-ending/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...-should-bioware-change-mass-effect-3s-ending/
^ I had completely forgotten about that poll. It seems to have gone up 5,000 since last time I saw it posted.
You're crushing my soul here, man. This feels like the ending all over again. :/
I think most of us knew what we were getting after what ME2 showed us would happen for importing all our choices.
I'll admit there was some wishful thinking on my end. Your choices in Heavy Rain have more of an effect than in Mass Effect. I know that comparison is fallacious.
Many people state interactivity and choice as something unique about games, but it's so limited in practice.
Its too late for the ending I'd want to see and it would indeed cost too much and require too much time and too many resources. I do feel they could pull something satisfying off by running with Indoctrination theory and providing some split ending. It can still be ABC just have them not be so much the same and provide an epilogue of what's to come for the galaxy now. They don't have to go all out either. I think they can do it.
I know doing this is speculative, but they said about 800K games sold the first day, right?
800000 x 60 = 48000000
I'm sure once it's all divided, they could afford to put that into a reworked ending.
However, once the game is done, they simply want to work on DLC and sell costumes for $5, not spend another three to six months working on the game. But if people aren't interested in the series because it left a bad taste, then BW/EA will have to think about the logistics of their DLC sales. Here's where their so-called content initiative comes in. I'm sure they've conjured up a budget that will let them do just enough to calm a few people, but who knows who they'll try to placate.
If they just do Mass Effect 3: Dead Or Alive Beach Volleyball, I'll be annoyed.
800000 x 60 = 48000000
I'm sure once it's all divided, they could afford to put that into a reworked ending.
However, once the game is done, they simply want to work on DLC and sell costumes for $5, not spend another three to six months working on the game. But if people aren't interested in the series because it left a bad taste, then BW/EA will have to think about the logistics of their DLC sales. Here's where their so-called content initiative comes in. I'm sure they've conjured up a budget that will let them do just enough to calm a few people, but who knows who they'll try to placate.
If they just do Mass Effect 3: Dead Or Alive Beach Volleyball, I'll be annoyed.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I agree they could have done a few things better. Removing/adding missions goes against BioWare's philosophy though, and their obvious intentions for the game.
In the case of the Rachni, the better option, in line with their development, would have been to remove the Rachni queen and replace her with something else. Cheesy as it would be, a small cloning facility or anything like that would have been suitable, allowing most of the mission to play out the same way, with a different excuse and resolution based on your import.
After all, removing the Rachni queen did not remove all Rachni in the galaxy. You hunt down several in ME1 on side missions.
Obsidian works by designing their games with highly demanding player agency, and a wider scope of game variables. This is a philosophy shared with old school WRPGs, and it comes at the cost of presentation.
BioWare's intentions with Mass Effect have been obvious since the first game. Their focus is on a cinematic, story driven experience. They prioritise more cut-scenes, more dialogue, and a greater scope of cinematic presentation over deep player agency. Unsurprisingly, the requirements for high tier cinematic presentation take quite a bit of time and manpower.
It sucks that BioWare did drop the ball on some obvious divergences they could have done even with limited time and budget, and they've always big noted the choice/consequence component far more than it ever actually mattered, but for me, their intentions with the series have been obvious since the start. Even with all the missions and the choices you could make, the original Mass Effect still played out largely the same way every time. The major plot points were all there, the major missions were always essential, and nothing you did had any real significant impact on the plot.
BioWare is more concerned with you role playing your character's dialogue. That's about it.
That's what we're going to get.
Unless they announce an expansion. That way they can get all the money and resources such as voice actors. Unlikely though. They probably getting pressured by EA so they'll just update the game so that it ends with a page or two of text outlining your decisions and such.
It's BioWare and more importantly, EA. The fact that they're even acknowledging it is amazing but don't expect anything from it.
Guess we'll see. I'm of the mindset that they have something planned for or beyond the ending all along. I don't have my hopes up, but yeah.
And yet if the trend continues as it has in ME1->ME2->ME3, we probably will be seeing uncharted style experiences rather than dialogue options in future games.
SpectreFire
Member
Wait, has anyone seen this yet?
http://geek.pikimal.com/2012/03/22/...ass-effect-3-writers-forum-post-name-release/
Alleged Mass Effect 3 writer pins disappointing ending all on Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, claims none of the other writers were allowed to work on the final mission.
http://geek.pikimal.com/2012/03/22/...ass-effect-3-writers-forum-post-name-release/
Alleged Mass Effect 3 writer pins disappointing ending all on Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, claims none of the other writers were allowed to work on the final mission.