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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

inky

Member
Accept it or what?

The entire game beat you over the head with the fact that the crucible was pretty literally the only hope against the reapers. If it didn't work you all die. There is no or what except death and the cycle continuing. Either you destroy them, like you were going to do with the crucible or you don't and die and get harvested.

Or not accept it and don't take what the catalyst says as the only option.

Everything, like the nature of the Crucible itself, is born out of circular logic. It was worked on and created by organics as a way to destroy the reapers, but no one knows why and how. The solution only works if you get there and activate it, and by getting there you are told you have rendered the other solution (i.e. the reapers) useless. But that is not true, the reapers are still going to win no matter what because you still need the catalyst to do what you set out to do and he is not helping, so the options he gives you are not really a solution to a problem but an alternative to... I don't know, but one even contradicts his purpose. I don't know because the crucible is not really the solution to your problem, thus it shouldn't be a threat to the catalyst's plans who already has a solution that is working perfectly fine: the reapers. So if the crucible is not a solution and it turns out that the catalyst, who claims to have some connection to the reapers (possibly created them) is offering me another solution that doesn't really address the problem, I don't have to accept it.
 
I have a question. Did they ever said why Javik was fighting prothean reapers in his time?
Or how long it takes before reapers start making the new generation of reapers to come back in the next cycle?
 

RyanDG

Member
Okay. So then just "harvest" organics.

They're helping the synthetics achieve what they're supposedly trying to prevent.

IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.

Sorry. No explanation you, Space Child or BioWare gives can change that.


No they aren't. The Reapers are trying to prevent all organic life from being wiped out by culling the most technologically advanced. By doing so, they prevent a total annihilation of organics.

By culling the top layer of organic life, you allow the bottom layers to propagate and continue. (While still maintaining the other 'harvested life' like a DNA time capsule).
 

DTKT

Member
I have a question. Did they ever said why Javik was fighting prothean reapers in his time?
Or how long it takes before reapers start making the new generation of reapers to come back in the next cycle?

Well, they seem to harvest the current generation to actually staff their armies.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
I'm more pointing out that the ending didn't come out of nowhere. It was all pretty spelled out and foreshadowed for you beforehand.
And what I'm saying is that it doesn't make the ending any more legitimate, or valid criticisms of the ending any less legitimate when you frame it like that. If a criticism exists outside the structure of our ending choices, relying upon previous themes and designs of the series for evidence, then you have to rebut that criticism in the same manner. You can't just say: it's spelled out, it's foreshadowed, it's inexorably written into the lore; therefore, the option of influencing and battling Starchild is an impossibility. You can draw upon other resources of that same game to argue otherwise. If I call it circular logic, you can't just say, "Oh well, that's the logic of the game."

When you get up to star child "fuck off I won't do it" really isn't an option because the game has told you it isn't beforehand.
Not really. The game has told us the Crucible is the key to defeating the Reapers. Starchild was a poorly conceived plot device. The writers could have just as easily removed him from the picture or allowed Shepard the option of influencing Starchild into multiple other endings (say, if Shepard's War Assets and Paragon/Renegade Levels were high enough). Again, my issue is not with your reasoning, but how you frame your entire defense. "The game has told you it isn't beforehand" is not a legitimate defense when people are arguing the merit of the game's entire premise. You do not only have to defend the ending (without reaching for straws and substituting for your own interpretation) you have to defend everything from all games leading up to the end. And argue that the entire structure is fitting. To me, your apologetics boil down to, "It's there. Make it make sense. And deal with it." Whereas, everyone else is arguing, "Why is it there in the first place." And I don't think the latter question has an appropriate defense.

You problem is a problem with the entire game's story not the ending.
No, my problem with the game's ending is because of the game's story.
 
The worst thing about the ending for me was easily starchild.

Not because he was a deux ex machina who served as a plot dump in the last 3 seconds of the game; it was because he took the appearance of that fucking shitty kid, with his stupid face and shitty running animation that I had to chase 3 times for absolutely no good reason.

Fucking slow motion running scenes chasing that bastard and now I have to see him one last time? Fuck you kid. Fuck you to the lowest depths of hell.

I specifically picked destroy because it would kill him. My only regret was you couldn't actually shoot him full of holes before you made the final "choice."

Fucking shitty ass shitty kid. Burn in hell.
 

Lime

Member
^ If she survives, I'm sure she would go back and remove them.


That sounds horrible. Are there really no ways to repair them? Maybe you can use someone else's save.


I'm assuming that they took a break after ME2, which only gave them a year and a half (or more) to really work on ME3. It would explain missing components, the lame fetch quests, and lack of different worlds. They didn't even flesh out Vega, or any of the characters that we already knew besides a few lines of dialogue about what their current situation was.

I don't think other games took away manpower, maybe just the MP and ME2/ME3 DLC.

Yeah, ME3 could have used more time. Hopefully patches will fix minor stuff like the quest log, but I'd love it if Bioware made some bigger improvements along with the ending DLC.
 

Omega

Banned
No they aren't. The Reapers are trying to prevent all organic life from being wiped out by culling the most technologically advanced. By doing so, they prevent a total annihilation of organics.

By culling the top layer of organic life, you allow the bottom layers to propagate and continue.

Yes..they are

The Quarians were winning against the Geth until the Reapers decided to help them.

They helped synthetics try to overthrow organics. Had it not been for Space Jesus, the synthetics would have won yet they're purpose is to make sure that never happens.

Space Jesus does the Reapers' job better than they do.
 

Dresden

Member
Sidequest Pack Omega

1,200 points

"Assault Omega with Aria T'Loak! Also includes fifteen new fetch quests centered around the Citadel."
 

RDreamer

Member
Yes..they are

The Quarians were winning against the Geth until the Reapers decided to help them.

They helped synthetics try to overthrow organics. Had it not been for Space Jesus, the synthetics would have won yet they're purpose is to make sure that never happens.

Space Jesus does the Reapers' job better than they do.

They help them because they are needed in this specific fight. That's like saying a flu vaccine is bad. But you're giving me the flu directly! I thought you wanted to prevent that!

The Geth were nothing compared to the reapers. They were being used for that one specific thing. They were of no threat.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Uh. That's exactly what the reapers are doing.
When you harvest something, you take it and transform it into something it no longer is. So why reap organics, convert them into reapers in order to preserve them?

100% Human Jelly - No Preservatives

Yeah, ME3 could have used more time. Hopefully patches will fix minor stuff like the quest log, but I'd love it if Bioware made some bigger improvements along with the ending DLC.
I really want an "Enhanced Edition" of ME3. But I don't think BW/EA will ever adopt CDPR's awesomeness. Once a game is finished, they move on to the next (rush) job.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
I just realized the implications of this thread's title to someone that hasn't finished the game.
 

Rapstah

Member
Sidequest Pack Omega

1,200 points

"Assault Omega with Aria T'Loak! Also includes fifteen new fetch quests centered around the Citadel."

The entire DLC is an Omega multiplayer map on which you can play three N7 missions, and twelve exclusive items you scan from Omega to return to NPCs talking loudly on their phones on the Citadel.

"No, Tom, I really need some of those Omega stabilisers right now, but let's have this conversation forever really loudly so someone can find them for us".
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
The worst thing about the ending for me was easily starchild.

Not because he was a deux ex machina who served as a plot dump in the last 3 seconds of the game; it was because he took the appearance of that fucking shitty kid, with his stupid face and shitty running animation that I had to chase 3 times for absolutely no good reason.

Fucking slow motion running scenes chasing that bastard and now I have to see him one last time? Fuck you kid. Fuck you to the lowest depths of hell.

I specifically picked destroy because it would kill him. My only regret was you couldn't actually shoot him full of holes before you made the final "choice."

Fucking shitty ass shitty kid. Burn in hell.

All the endings kill him. The Citadel always explodes.
 

RDreamer

Member
Yeah, I don't see how human paste is preserving humanity

Well let's say you have a document that is deteriorating at a phenomenal rate. You know in a few years it will literally be gone. And you have a technique to preserve that document digitally, but it will destroy it right now. You use that technique and preserve it digitally, because it will be gone anyway. Yes it's not literally the same document in a physical sense. But in essence it is the same as it was before.
 

thetechkid

Member
They help them because they are needed in this specific fight. That's like saying a flu vaccine is bad. But you're giving me the flu directly! I thought you wanted to prevent that!

The Geth were nothing compared to the reapers. They were being used for that one specific thing. They were of no threat.

Explain why the Quarins were drove off their planet then.

Well let's say you have a document that is deteriorating at a phenomenal rate. You know in a few years it will literally be gone. And you have a technique to preserve that document digitally, but it will destroy it right now. You use that technique and preserve it digitally, because it will be gone anyway. Yes it's not literally the same document in a physical sense. But in essence it is the same as it was before.

That doesn't explain how human paste is preserving humanity at all.
 

Rapstah

Member
Well let's say you have a document that is deteriorating at a phenomenal rate. You know in a few years it will literally be gone. And you have a technique to preserve that document digitally, but it will destroy it right now. You use that technique and preserve it digitally, because it will be gone anyway. Yes it's not literally the same document in a physical sense. But in essence it is the same as it was before.

And then you use that copied document to make paper airplanes and throw them around for thousands of years in a room with a fireplace, never reading their contents again.
 
More like they spend countless eons trying to find the Catalyst. Those poor races will always think they're missing some crucial DLC or earlier dialogue choice :(

EDIT: Oh, until they find some Prothean VI that tells them it's the Citadel. "The fuck's the Citadel?"

Well, at least they'll have something to do.
 
Well, they seem to harvest the current generation to actually staff their armies.

I mean, aren't Sovereign, Harbinger, and all the other four-eyed-claws, prothean reapers?Made out of protheans 50K+ years ago?

Were the first reapers that the prothean fought made out of the species of the previous cycle?
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Well let's say you have a document that is deteriorating at a phenomenal rate. You know in a few years it will literally be gone. And you have a technique to preserve that document digitally, but it will destroy it right now. You use that technique and preserve it digitally, because it will be gone anyway. Yes it's not literally the same document in a physical sense. But in essence it is the same as it was before.

So why dont they download the consciousness of the creature? The paste is essentially worthless.

This is stupid.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
It may be the essence of humanity but it's not human. Therefore, I think it's missing the point what it wants to actually preserve.
 
Well let's say you have a document that is deteriorating at a phenomenal rate. You know in a few years it will literally be gone. And you have a technique to preserve that document digitally, but it will destroy it right now. You use that technique and preserve it digitally, because it will be gone anyway. Yes it's not literally the same document in a physical sense. But in essence it is the same as it was before.
Life isn't 1s and 0s you inhuman monster.
 

Guesong

Member
It took longer than that in ME3

Does it? In game time, how long is ME3 supposed to last?

Assuming 3 Shepard Dreams, and let's say he's a true baller and was awake for 48 hours periods, that's 6 days.

Never got the impression the game is longer than 1-2 weeks.
 
In my save, where he lived, the shuttle crashed and Shepard did not make a sound. Instead the subtitles said "Shepard: Steve!". I didn't have subtitles on otherwise for the part. This happens every time.

Got to love that there Bioware QA, I believe it is a bug and it seems to be prevalent on the PC version.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Sidequest Pack Omega

1,200 points

"Assault Omega with Aria T'Loak! Also includes fifteen new fetch quests centered around the Citadel."

I fully expect that to happen in the DLC. Only the fetch quests will be in Omega after you take it, to give the illusion that you're actually doing something with the city and didn't spend money to just do a few more arena battles to take a useless rock back from more Cerberus enemies.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Does it? In game time, how long is ME3 supposed to last?

Assuming 3 Shepard Dreams, and let's say he's a true baller and was awake for 48 hours periods, that's 6 days.

Never got the impression the game is longer than 1-2 weeks.

You realize how much time it takes moving around the galaxy? Even with Mass Relays? Those dreams dont signify passage of time.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
They were a threat to others, sure, but not to reapers, obviously. That's what I was saying. The reapers helped them because they could be of use, but in the grand scheme of things the Geth could never destroy or stop the reapers. Ever.



To a machine it is.

I bet EDI and the new Geth would disagree. Can you stop making bad arguments in defense of shitty writing by Bioware now?
 

RDreamer

Member
I bet EDI and the new Geth would disagree. Can you stop making bad arguments in defense of shitty writing by Bioware now?

Fine, instead of analyzing what's there and what we have and piecing together the intent of the writer I'll leave you guys to your negative circle jerk where you can just tear down everything and be angry at yourselves for investing hundreds of hours in the trilogy. Have fun with that.
 

Guesong

Member
You realize how much time it takes moving around the galaxy? Even with Mass Relays? Those dreams dont signify passage of time.

Well, kinda. They happens when your teammates inquire about your health and urges you to take some rest ; so I just assumed it meant in this period of crisis, Shepard really did not sleep at all except when we do see him sleep and dream.

And Mass Relay transport is instanteneous, according to the Wiki at least :

Mass Effect Wiki said:
Hailed as one of the greatest achievements of the extinct Protheans, a mass relay can transport starships instantaneously to another relay within the network, allowing for journeys that would otherwise take years or even decades with only FTL drives.

Also considers that Earth is attacked at the start of the game, and that at the end of it, it's still not a completely destroyed mess. I know, resistances forces and all, but I'm really sceptical about their ability to hold out for more than a few days, let alone weeks.

So really, how much time passes in ME3? I can see it being stretched to 1 month at best, but a week or two really seems more appropriate given all I can see.
 

Omega

Banned
Does it? In game time, how long is ME3 supposed to last?

Assuming 3 Shepard Dreams, and let's say he's a true baller and was awake for 48 hours periods, that's 6 days.

Never got the impression the game is longer than 1-2 weeks.

Yeah, they got plans for the Crucible and managed to build it all within 6 days.

The game does a bad job at showing you how much time has passed, but it's not days. I'm positive it takes months.
 

Omega

Banned
Also considers that Earth is attacked at the start of the game, and that at the end of it, it's still not a completely destroyed mess. I know, resistances forces and all, but I'm really sceptical about their ability to hold out for more than a few days, let alone weeks.

So really, how much time passes in ME3? I can see it being stretched to 1 month at best, but a week or two really seems more appropriate given all I can see.

Protheans were fighting for centuries.

What makes you think the Reapers just come in, fuck shit up in less than a month and just leave?
 
Fine, instead of analyzing what's there and what we have and piecing together the intent of the writer I'll leave you guys to your negative circle jerk where you can just tear down everything and be angry at yourselves for investing hundreds of hours in the trilogy. Have fun with that.
Wow dude

Yeah, they got plans for the Crucible and managed to build it all within 6 days.

The game does a bad job at showing you how much time has passed, but it's not days. I'm positive it takes months.
They mention that it's been a few months
 

Rapstah

Member
Fine, instead of analyzing what's there and what we have and piecing together the intent of the writer I'll leave you guys to your negative circle jerk where you can just tear down everything and be angry at yourselves for investing hundreds of hours in the trilogy. Have fun with that.

As opposed to pretending it's good because we've invested hundreds of hours into the trilogy? Having fun while making mostly valid points is not the same as mass hypnosis into accepting negative explanations to everything.

And regarding the intent of the writer: we know it. Walters thought a vague ending would be best because explaining everything would be too low art for whatever reason. By all accounts a chunk of content that would have explained the ending (specifically conversation options with the kid) was cut because of this very reason. We can't complain about this because it sounds bad, because a lot of people think it's bad, and because we have invested a lot of time into the series?
 
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