Not when their evidence of that is shit like the Collectors, husks, banshees, etc. and my evidence is forging alliances that seemed impossible. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they say they want to assimilate me in capsules that traumatize survivors and turn me into some kind of mush for their benefit. In fact, I am going to do the opposite of giving them the benefit of the doubt in that the cruel destruction of advance organic life forms benefits anyone but them and take my risks with synthetic life forms, which thank to the reaper influence on them (ironic) have become even more a helpful and understanding species.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Not when their evidence of that is shit like the Collectors, husks, banshees, etc. and my evidence is forging alliances that seemed impossible. I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they say they want to assimilate me in capsules that traumatize survivors and turn me into some kind of mush for their benefit. In fact, I am going to do the opposite of giving them the benefit of the doubt in that the cruel destruction of advance organic life forms benefits anyone but them and take my risks with synthetic life forms, which thank to the reaper influence on them (ironic) have become even more a helpful and understanding species.
I meant macro as in every single different synthetic type. Again, I don't think the assertion is that every single type of synthetic will always rebel against their creator, just that eventually synthetics (of any kind) will always rebel (at some point).
Also, they haven't succumbed because they are a hybrid. They are not purely synthetic. You have to look at them from their perspective. They are preserving organics by incorporating them into themselves. They are not pure synthetic. They are organics and synthetics. They are the harvesters and the harvested. In a way they are already like a crude version of the synthesis ending.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
the short lived Tabula Rasa was one.
Jake Tower
Banned
You're fucking indoctrinated, brah.
APZonerunner
Member
EmCeeGramr
Member
What makes hybrids different? That's one of the biggest problems of the synthesis ending. You can still have a creator and a created, it's not like there are inherent properties in flesh and metal that make an organism composed of one hate the other.
Reapers are just synthetics with organic components.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Play most MMOs use the mouse wheel.
In the reapers case if they are the harvested and the harvesters, then essentially they are the creators and the created all in one consciousness and body.
Hybrids are different because they no longer have the pure chaos of organics. They have the order and perfection of synthetics, now. The assertion, and this is gathered partially through a conversation with Javik is that synthetics will rebel eventually because they are better. They are more perfect, whereas their creators are insufficient. They're powerless comparatively. As hybrids this difference doesn't exist.
EmCeeGramr
Member
No they're not. That's the problem with the ending. It's a bunch of faux-philosophical bullshit that ignores the practical examples that totally disproved it.
EDIT: Edit, yep, yep, "chaos," "order," "perfection," more meaningless bullshit.
heliosRAzi
Banned
The Catalyst asserts that synthetics will kill all organics so going by that line of reasoning, it must have happened before. So why we still got organics?
This is why we needed an investigate option instead of ambiguity.
This is why we needed an investigate option instead of ambiguity.
What is chaos? You mean evolution, change, adaptation and diversification? Or just "chaos" because spacekid says chaos?
Which goes against the nature of organics, the one thing they say they are absolutely concerned of preserving.
As "hybrids" you are talking assimilation, making everyone the same, which goes against the organic rule, the cosmic imperative (gathered partially from a talk with Javik) the thing they claim they are preserving in the first place. As hybrids they are always going to have the flaws of each, and nothing prevents hybrids from creating new, only perfect synthetics that threaten that "perfect order" future. You are only asked to assume these things, not question them.
If you follow their logic through it makes sense to them. Synthetics are perfection and order, and organics are heavily flawed. It's more of an eventuality they speak of. Eventually, if kept uncheck, synthetics will win, and organics will lose.
Jake Tower
Banned
"The relationship is symbiotic. The strengths of both, the weakness of neither."
I think I've heard that somewhere before...
Right. This stuff isn't a foreign concept. The reapers and their logic have been built on this from the beginning of the series.
Maybe, but the geth were largely passive and off doing their thing for 300 hundreds years and still got their asses handed to them by quarian innovation. It's not convincing to me that the galaxy needs a watchdog for every cycle. The reapers create and aggravate the very reason for their cycles by empowering the synthetics fighting the organics... for no reason, or maybe so they can somehow think their justified in wiping billions of people out every 50 000 years.
Yeah, Reapers, just because some bad stuff might have gone down in your own origin doesn't mean that this cycle is doomed to repeat, especially when you seemingly do your thing regardless of the state of the galaxy at the time of each harvest.
There's no reason that the races of the galaxy couldn't say 'oh we fucked up', if something actually got dire, and stop it. It seems to me that, even though Jarvik talked about the things that went bad with AI in his cycle, that didn't stop the Prothean empire from dwarfing all the current races in ours. It took the Reapers 300 years to wipe out the Protheans, and Liara said it would take the reapers roughly 100 years to completely wipe out all the advanced civilizations in ours.
heliosRAzi
Banned
If synthetics are order, why do the Reapers consider them chaotic?
Buy the PC version and use a save editor and download a similar save from mass Effect saves... that's all I can recommend, maybe someone else knows something.
The whole "Well if you just look at it from the Reapers' perspective..." argument for the ending gives me a headache. You're never given their perspective! Just what they do, and a few intangible buzzword concepts like "order" and "chaos" that are just arbitrarily ascribed to things with no explanation or elaboration.
Of course the ending is going to make sense if you explain it by making up a bunch of bullshit that is never stated or even really implied (without making some fantastic leaps of non-logic) within the game. That's not how storytelling works!
Of course the ending is going to make sense if you explain it by making up a bunch of bullshit that is never stated or even really implied (without making some fantastic leaps of non-logic) within the game. That's not how storytelling works!
Another of the absolute failures of the ending. It's all just tell (and accept!) and not enough show. None of the implications established there are demonstrated throughout the games, in the things you do. I get that it's supposed to be some kind of revelation, but that's not the problem, the problem is you have to accept it no matter what.
DarkChronic
Member
Just watched the "Ten Reasons we Hate the Ending" youtube clip.
Pretty solid, and great points.
Did any of the writers/producers watch/respond to it? Would like to hear their explanations on the ten points.
Pretty solid, and great points.
Did any of the writers/producers watch/respond to it? Would like to hear their explanations on the ten points.
Escape Goat
Member
I was watching some cutscenes from ME1 and thought the comments were pretty funny.
No real answers. They just like to use the word feedback a lot.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Like I said at some point, a lot of people are mad because you can't tell the Catalyst to go fuck itself
Accept it or what?
The entire game beat you over the head with the fact that the crucible was pretty literally the only hope against the reapers. If it didn't work you all die. There is no or what except death and the cycle continuing. Either you destroy them, like you were going to do with the crucible or you don't and die and get harvested.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
are you one of those people who doesn't save at every possible turn?
Surely you do have another save somewhere a little bit earlier in the game that you can load?
heliosRAzi
Banned
These poor people
Is there no way to fail and let the Reapers carry on? That would amount the same thing.
You've said this about a million times now and it's not a legitimate defense. You also discovered that this cycle of reaping had been occurring for who knows how many years with who knows how many champions, yet there was Shepard. You don't seen to understand how fiction works; it's malleable and alterable and alleged "lore" can be changed. You don't even realize we didn't even know the existence of the crucible until a few hours into ONLY the third game. There was absolutely no reason the plot had to be relegated to using the crucible in that manner. A new solution could have introduced or built on top of the crucible in another may, just like how the crucible was simply introduced. Hell, consider how many terribly written works of fiction have relied on the idea of a super-weapon that will solve all the world's problems -- more terrible writing, just like the ending.
are you one of those people who doesn't save at every possible turn?
Surely you do have another save somewhere a little bit earlier in the game that you can load?
The way ME2 works is if the autosave or latest save get corrupt, you lose the entire career because the game refuses to load it. On the 360 and PC there are utilities to open up the save and remove the corrupted saves from the career, but AFAIK this isn't possible due to nobody cracking the encryption on PS3 saves
CharmingCharlie
Member
Well there kinda is a way to fail and let the Reapers win. Apparently if you hang around for 10 minutes after space casper has gone "choose" then you get a splash screen saying the crucible has been destroyed. I mean christ Bioware put more effort into the fail screen in Arrival than they did in ME 3.
I never understood how Bioware attained the level of polish in ME2 when the development time was only ~2 years, while ME3 seemed like much more of a rush-job despite having the same development period: animations were worse, quest log a step back, amount of squad members smaller, etc.
I'm wondering if EA gave them less resources this time or other projects (DA2, SW:TOR, future titles) took away manpower. ME3 could definitely have been better if given 6 months more.
I'm wondering if EA gave them less resources this time or other projects (DA2, SW:TOR, future titles) took away manpower. ME3 could definitely have been better if given 6 months more.
I'm more pointing out that the ending didn't come out of nowhere. It was all pretty spelled out and foreshadowed for you beforehand. When you get up to star child "fuck off I won't do it" really isn't an option because the game has told you it isn't beforehand. You problem is a problem with the entire game's story not the ending.
Also, Shepard being there wasn't necessarily just because of his cycle solely. The reason he's there is because of the cumulative knowledge of previous cycles. The crucible, too, is because of the cumulative knowledge of organics beforehand. And that cumulative knowledge, according to lore, basically said this crucible was the only shot at breaking the cycle. Really, it's a terrible deus ex machina, but it's a deus ex machina I had accepted long before the ending came up.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
They should fire all of their current writers and hire you.
are you one of those people who doesn't save at every possible turn?
Surely you do have another save somewhere a little bit earlier in the game that you can load?
I save frequently and I had multiple save files. I just read elsewhere that bioware somehow places them under one file regardless. Im incredibly pissed right now :/
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
The way ME2 works is if the autosave or latest save get corrupt, you lose the entire career because the game refuses to load it. On the 360 and PC there are utilities to open up the save and remove the corrupted saves from the career, but AFAIK this isn't possible due to nobody cracking the encryption on PS3 saves
Oh man. Can't you remove the autosave manually from the save folder then?
.. wait.. it doesn't actually show that one, does it... that is seriously fucked up.
Space Child says the same thing that the Reaper on Rannoch says.
Shepard doesn't question him there either.
You're helping the synthetics destroy organics and yet you say you want to protect us from them. That's the most retarded solution ever. I can't believe something that stupid was even brought up as an idea, let alone included into the final game.
Nothing about the Crucible's ultimate function was foreshadowed at any point during the game, except for a vague idea that it will help stop the Reapers.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The new races find Liara's time capsule.
Spend countless eons making the Crucible for something you already killed.
Spend countless eons making the Crucible for something you already killed.
^ If she survives, I'm sure she would go back and remove them.
I don't think other games took away manpower, maybe just the MP and ME2/ME3 DLC.
That sounds horrible. Are there really no ways to repair them? Maybe you can use someone else's save.The way ME2 works is if the autosave or latest save get corrupt, you lose the entire career because the game refuses to load it. On the 360 and PC there are utilities to open up the save and remove the corrupted saves from the career, but AFAIK this isn't possible due to nobody cracking the encryption on PS3 saves
I'm assuming that they took a break after ME2, which only gave them a year and a half (or more) to really work on ME3. It would explain missing components, the lame fetch quests, and lack of different worlds. They didn't even flesh out Vega, or any of the characters that we already knew besides a few lines of dialogue about what their current situation was.
I don't think other games took away manpower, maybe just the MP and ME2/ME3 DLC.
Escape Goat
Member
Also, Vigil in ME1 says it may be beyond organics comprehension to see the Reaper's point of view. So we're just too dumb to see what they're doing is the best way! Awesome.
More like barely a week.
While I do agree, the logic behind the Reapers is a little hard to accept when put into clear terms (they should've kept with the Sovereign logic of "our ways are too advanced for you to understand")... You can argue that by culling more technologically advanced civilizations every 50,000 years, you are essentially allowing more life to continue as the alternative would be every living, intelligent creature being annihilated (or absorbed) through synthetics.
It's the age old argument - of kill 1 to save a million, only on this scale you are talking about killing billions to save future generations (of other species) of hundreds of billions.
I do see why some people jump to this argument as being 'dumb' or 'stupid', I think it makes sense in possible context of the story.
heliosRAzi
Banned
The whole thing about synthetics rising up and destroying their creators does come out of nowhere if you achieved peace between the quarians and the geth.
The games have a tendency of telling you one thing and then doing the opposite. At one point, we are told that synthetics and organics and live peacefully. Then we are told that they cannot. We are told that using the Reaper's technology is bad because of some Mordin says, but then we end up using Reaper tech. We are told that our genetic diversity is highly sought fter by the Reapers, but in the end, it doesn't matter.
Besides, I would rather that the galaxy fails on its own terms than on the terms of the Reapers.
Also, the Reapers enhance the geth to help kill more organics
But the Reapers are synthetic, so why aren't they destroying organic life? And if the Catalyst created the Reapers, why haven't they rebelled against it?
More like they spend countless eons trying to find the Catalyst. Those poor races will always think they're missing some crucial DLC or earlier dialogue choice
EDIT: Oh, until they find some Prothean VI that tells them it's the Citadel. "The fuck's the Citadel?"
Okay. So then just "harvest" organics.
They're helping the synthetics achieve what they're supposedly trying to prevent.
IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.
Sorry. No explanation you, Space Child or BioWare gives can change that.