Even then, the notion that the "essence" is preserved just seems like vague BS they (Bioware/starchild) say that isn't substantiated in any way. Reapers are just made from organics in some weird way. Humans are nothing like reapers. No organics seem to be. I mean, effectively every non-indoctrinated organic has loathed the very concept of Reapers and what they do, yet no Reapers appear to have any qualms with their task once they're Reperized. I have absolutely no idea how anything is even remotely perserved. At best they have a DNA imprint for historical logs. Whoopidy doo!
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Even then, the notion that the "essence" is preserved just seems like vague BS they (Bioware/starchild) say that isn't substantiated in any way. Reapers are just made from organics in some weird way. Humans are nothing like reapers. No organics seem to be. I mean, effectively every non-indoctrinated organic has loathed the very concept of Reapers and what they do, yet no Reapers appear to have any qualms with their task once they're Reperized. I have absolutely no idea how anything is even remotely perserved. At best they have a DNA imprint for historical logs. Whoopidy doo!
Escape Goat
Member
lol. her anguish is so gutteral. It cuts her deep man. such raw emotion.
Because they're programmed to preserve.
The cycle was broken all along!
Shepard: If the cycle exists, and you are synthetics, then you should be killing everyone. That is part of the cycle you just told me about, isn't it.
Starshild: JUMP INTO THE LASERS!
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Dude, the game now says "they make a reaper out of the dominant species". How the fuck is that not the Asari or the Turians?
And we have no idea whether Drew had anything to do with the 'humans are special' in terms of DNA subplot thingy. He quit during ME2, I believe, so his real influence is limited to ME1.
The Protheans were their cycle's dominant race. They would have had outposts everywhere, and with the Citadel disabled the Reapers had no reason to hurry. They were all supposedly mostly dead by the time those stasised scientists were awoken and sent the warning message across the beacons. Do we have a number of how long that took?
heliosRAzi
Banned
I hated that shit. And I don't like that we got a new human character (though we did get EDI and Javik).
Too many humans. And no krogan!
It's stated that Asari is the most dominant species in the galaxy.
Someone just has some misplaced hatred for Drew.
I'm not here defending Bioware's shitty writing or whatever, but I get the feeling that people think I'm defending everything they put down as gospel. I don't want to be Bioware's punching bag. I'm just analyzing things as I see them and I think I've got a good grasp on what they were trying to do with the game. I realize they did a piss poor job with that and I realize that there were other avenues to go that would have been way better. I'm not denying that. I just don't see any benefit in tearing everything down until the whole things sucks. Again, I'd rather figure out what was meant to be and what may have just been mis-conveyed to us. It's a far more enjoyable activity, especially since the negatives of the ending have been expounded over and over throughout the internet.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Hackett states early on that Earth was lost "weeks ago".
It's safe to assume that ME3 takes place over a few months.
Yet apparently the Reapers wanted to make a human reaper. Ahh fuck it.
Best human screaming because of friend dying in alien space fight ever still belongs to Will Smith.
JIMMY? JIMMY NOOOOOOOOOO!
Jake Tower
Banned
We don't buy into your indoctrinated logic.
In short:
Starchild makes the statement that organics will always create synthetics and those synthetics will always rise up and destroy all organics eventually.
Meanwhile, Shepard just made peace between the geth and Quarians and uncovered the truth of their war: it was the Quarians that started it and the geth acted in self defense, as any self-aware, sentient species would. The only geth that started fighting again were those indoctrinated by Sovereign.
So Starchild is really asking Shepard, "Who you gonna believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"
The fact that the game doesn't allow Shepard to call BULLSHIT on Starchild is unacceptable.
Humans have genetic variety!
The Asari were perceived by the Protheans as being more advanced. Humans still lived in caves.
I'm not hating, just inferring from what information we have gotten. It was Drew's idea about the whole Dark Energy plot and the humans being the final hope of the inevitable "dark energy tearing apart the universe"-thing. Check his blog post about it.
"Intrepid homosexual shuttle pilot Steve Cortez dies of terminal Not-Being-Talked-At-Enough disease, and Shepard's human friends do not take it well."
Bahahaha
STEEEEEVE...you sure?
Escape Goat
Member
I thought they based the look of the reaper on whoever they were harvesting. Humans had largely settled the Terminus systems right?
bonesmccoy
Banned
Two more post-ending traumatic thoughts:
1) In ME2, Miranda is shown chillaxing with TIM in his lounge. In ME3, Shepard never asks Miranda - ex-Cerberus superstar with a grudge against TIM - where the main Cerberus base is? We just have to assume she somehow became Cerberus' highest or second highest level operative and never once was shown the location of the Cerberus base? Poor show!
2) In choosing the 'destroy' ending, we're given a cut-scene of the big Reapers falling over. People seem happy. Now at some point in the future, wouldn't these same people eventually start harvesting the technology from the Reapers? Wouldn't they be able to glean at least a little bit of space travel tech from these guys?
1) In ME2, Miranda is shown chillaxing with TIM in his lounge. In ME3, Shepard never asks Miranda - ex-Cerberus superstar with a grudge against TIM - where the main Cerberus base is? We just have to assume she somehow became Cerberus' highest or second highest level operative and never once was shown the location of the Cerberus base? Poor show!
2) In choosing the 'destroy' ending, we're given a cut-scene of the big Reapers falling over. People seem happy. Now at some point in the future, wouldn't these same people eventually start harvesting the technology from the Reapers? Wouldn't they be able to glean at least a little bit of space travel tech from these guys?
You can make it make sense. Say they're trying to prolong the intelligent/creative final organic stage in an apparently inevitable evolution toward super synthetics like themselves. Maybe they set back life in the galaxy through the course of their own development and saw most races eventually destroy themselves with synthetics. Synthetics are bad for organics in the end because they eventually wield power over entire galaxies, like the Reapers.
The Reapers harvest the diversity and creativity of intelligent organic life to save it, or further their development, or because the galaxy was a dull place without it.
Does he? I must have missed him then.
So months, and yet Big Ben is still standing. Right. Takes an entire fleet of Quarian with 3 laser guided assaults to bring down one sole reaper. Sovereign & Saren & Company nearly took down an interspecies defense of the Citadel by themselves.
But the whole might of the Reapers takes months to destroy a crippled Earth, let alone heavily damage it. Considering it would then take Shepard "weeks" before reinforcement from Palaven comes (had to go save Victus first, then solve the genophage!)...
Yeah. I dunno. I just can't see it.
But then again, writers of Space Magic.
thetechkid
Member
That made sense until you see that there are really only three design: Sovereign, Master Hand/Harbringer, and that turtle destroyer thing.
But the Protheans weren't turned into a Reaper like the humans were going to be. Protheans were turned into Collector slaves. At least that's how I interpreted it. If I were to guess the Protheans were too resilient in their fight against the Reapers, which caused it to take so damn long. I mean most of the Batarians were wiped out as soon as the Reapers arrived, and most of the humans were taken out shortly after. I can't imagine how long the current cycle species could have made it past a decade.
For 1 I'd assume the base was moved.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I think we already have a good grasp on what they were trying to do with the game. We have the Final Hours stuff, the production notes, interviews, and other things. When you come in here and analyze their intentions, it comes off as reaching since we have established lore and words straight from the horse's mouth on the subject.
We're not doing that. Most of us like the game and that's why we find the end so appalling.
What we got was what the game was meant to be and what we got wasn't simply mis-conveyed: it was downright contradicted the rest of the game.
Same star. I'd bet she was blindfolded or whatever on the road there.
Those are the outer shells.
Antiochus
Member
Unfortunately Bioware's PR made many, if not most, think otherwise.
One instance of peace does not a pattern make. It's like having a rule against pet lions. Sure you could have seen, in the past, a family that had a nice lion as a pet. But generally, lions are going to fuck your shit up.
Also, it doesn't matter who started it. A rebellion can be instigated by the party being rebelled against. In fact, I personally think that was showing you in large part why synthetics will always rebel against their creators. Because creators want to control their creations. They want them for smaller things, and yet they create them to be so much more than that.
Also, Starchild is really asking Shepard, "Who you gonna believe, the things that are millions upon millions of years more advanced than anything you've ever seen and have been around for perhaps billions or the one or two instances you've seen in the minuscule amount of time you've been alive?"
The species they look like is the core of the reaper. The squid looking stuff is just a sort of outside armor. Most likely they had the lore this way because it'd be a pain in the ass to have to render tons and tons of new species designs for the reapers.
Escape Goat
Member
It seemed pretty silly to me, but was it the Reapers who were creating that human hybrid or the Collectors using Reaper technology? Maybe the Collectors just have a better imagination
I forgot the star. Oh Bioware.
It seemed pretty silly to me, but was it the Reapers who were creating that human hybrid or the Collectors using Reaper technology? Maybe the Collectors just have a better imagination
The Collectors are agents of the Reapers.
thetechkid
Member
I know the why they didn't actually do it, I'm just pointing out that it seems silly.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Two instances.
And Reapers are machines, as you've stated, but they don't do what the Catalyst says what synthetics will do: destroy all organic life. And they haven't rebelled against their creator, so three instances.
rasberryjam
Member
Legion is willing to destroy the Quarians in order to save the rest of the Geth. That leaves a solid possibility for future problems. Especially considering how half the galaxy isn't going to just magically forgive the massive robot armada after the events in ME1.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
the leaked plot had a slightly more elaborate explanation (cutscene) of all that, actually. Mainly the fact that the reapers are harvesting Earth, not bombarding it from space.
There is that troll at the whole "being of light" dig planet with the Volus billionaire. Mainly the suggestion that it will probably just be bombed and that would be the end of it. There are also plenty of totally ravaged worlds in ME2 (too many, actually), so they could if they wanted to, but have a different motive: harvesting.
that's kind of an issue with the ending: Shepard states "makes sense", but what he should be saying is something like "they use the citadel to make reapers. Efficient. Makes sense".
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
No. Legion wants to see his "brothers" evolve. If the Quarians attacks them or not is wholly another matter.
It's not like he was "Let us upgrade or we'll kill you!". It was more of a "We are upgrading. In any case, if you attack us, we will retaliate like we did in the past. Elsewise, let us point out good farming spots on Rannoch."
heliosRAzi
Banned
Synthetic life has a right to protect itself.
Kai Leng is the least confident guy in the whole series.
thetechkid
Member
Seems similar to how everyone hates the Korgans for their rebellion.
Fits his established MO, in my opinion. He fails at everything and seems like a complete retard.
rasberryjam
Member
He's still willing to let the conflict with the Quarians occur. It doesn't matter who starts the fighting, it just means there will always be tension between synthetics and organics.
I'm not saying it doesn't. Everything in the galaxy would probably prefer it didn't, though.
Kind of, yeah. Several centuries down the line, people would still be intimidated by the power the Geth have and their capacity to evolve at a crazy rate with their new reaper code.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
"next time, Gadget! Next time!"
I've stated the reapers are kind of hybrids of organic life and machines. And how do you know they haven't rebelled against whoever created them to begin with? If you're talking about star child, he is their controller, but I believe he is also one of them.
And even so, 3 instances isn't the problem. The problem is an eventuality. Eventually synthetics will destroy organics. This doesn't mean every single type of synthetic will, specifically rebel against their specific creator.
I was going to do a play through where Ashley is alive but thanks to this, I changed my mind.
heliosRAzi
Banned
And they would be wrong. The geth are perfectly happy with chilling in the void of space crunching numbers. If they were left alone, they wouldn't cause any problems.
They could've destroyed all intelligent life in the distant past or in other galaxies. Perhaps they meant after a time when they become numerous and advanced enough to infest an entire galaxy.
thetechkid
Member
He just wanted to give his people freedom though, he wasn't insisting the Qurians come and get genocided.