Blue Ninja
Member
Watching this video while drunk is... Well, quite the experience.Typographenia said:
Mass Effect Franchise bitching thread
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
Honestly, i dont get all the bitching about the franchise. Its not perfect, the Mako was sometimes frustrating, there's a few weird bugs in the 2nd game, plot isn't the best, but im having lots of fun in combat and during the dialogues in both ME games. And that's all that matters to me.
Sorry for not being part of the hivemind GAF.
Guess i'll enjoy ME3 while everyone continue to bitch in this thread. :lol
Sorry for not being part of the hivemind GAF.
Guess i'll enjoy ME3 while everyone continue to bitch in this thread. :lolWow, I didn't realize the series had so much backlash. I just stated ME2 (5 hours in), and I think its really good so far. But I guess I need to finish it to make a real opinion. I'll come back when I'm done, but this thread has me worried. I hope the whole game is around the same quality as the first five hours =/
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't want to give you too many conceptions about the game, so I'll spoil this butTuck said:
I thought the first five hours were really good as well, and it kind of slowly lost steam from there until the mid-game where it was just feeling bleh. Omega and the Archangel mission were pretty awesome
Tuck said:
If you like the beginning, you wont hate the rest. Story is worst than the first game because nothing really special happen except in the last hours, but other than that, if you think the beginning is really good, the rest is just about the same quality.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I've been replaying ME2. I played it a few times on PC at release, but I picked it up on Xbox to give it another spin. Mostly enjoying it, but there's one thing I've noticed...
Why do all the enemies moan so much?
Every shootout seems to be capped with someone going "OoooOOOOoooohh..." or "Mmmmmmmmmmmnnnnng...". It sounds really hilarious, as if the mixing was all wrong. If it were shorter and quieter, it'd make sense, but everyone seems to die in ecstasy over my speakers.
Why do all the enemies moan so much?
Every shootout seems to be capped with someone going "OoooOOOOoooohh..." or "Mmmmmmmmmmmnnnnng...". It sounds really hilarious, as if the mixing was all wrong. If it were shorter and quieter, it'd make sense, but everyone seems to die in ecstasy over my speakers.
Lothars said:
Yea, I thought the game was great. Some people just wanted it to be a different game than it was, a game with inventory, equipment, stats, menus, and things you could twink around with and customize your team. I have no problem with those people since I enjoy that as well, but I don't need it in my game as long as I am entertained, and ME2 definitely entertained me.
Sadly, I think most of the bitching comes from a few people in that group (not everyone mind you) who seem to think that ME2 was an insult to rpg gamers and their superior tastes in gaming, that the whole game was dumbed down to appeal to more people and that they are forever worse for having played such an intellectually inferior and low-brow game. Those people, I think, are idiots.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Bisnic said:Sorry for not being part of the hivemind GAF.
I don't get this line of thinking.
Do people just get angry when they feel their opinion is the not the majority on GAF? Or does the nonexistent hivemind secretly murder puppies and twist the dreams of non-believers into unending nightmares?
It's okay not to belong dude, you don't have to be needlessly condescending.
Bisnic said:Honestly, i dont get all the bitching about the franchise. Its not perfect, the Mako was sometimes frustrating, there's a few weird bugs in the 2nd game, plot isn't the best, but im having lots of fun in combat and during the dialogues in both ME games. And that's all that matters to me.
Sorry for not being part of the hivemind GAF.
And some people want a little bit more than that. I and a host of others were "moaning," as you say, well before I even found out what GAF was, btw.
Gonaria said:
1) I would've been fine with a coherent story.
2) It was dumbed down. But I wouldn't say I'm worse off for it. It's just disappointing that the story took such a stupid turn from the first game and that the series will never fulfill the potential that it displayed in the first game.
POWERSPHERE
Member
I found mass effect very very boring.
The Stealth Fox
Junior Member
GOTY 2010. THE SILENT MAJORITY HAS SPOKEN.
samdavis said:
The story was coherent. Did it have its issues? Sure, but that is a far cry from being incoherent. But hey, everyone likes a hyperbole. Also, I much prefer characterization to plot so I enjoyed the story more than ME1 and the plot having a few problems didnt really bother me since I found the characters, by and large, interesting
Yea, this is where I strongly disagree. I honestly don't understand why some people think that eliminating/reducing rpg mechanics means that they are dumbing down the game so the vast horde of stupid people will buy it. A video game mechanic is not an indication of intelligence and if you are basing your intellectual self worth on what video games you play, then, well, yea...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I actually have almost no issues with ME2 in terms of combat mechanics or "RPG elements" (read: stats). Could propose a few tweaks, but nothing that I really feel like harping on.Gonaria said:
What really disappointed me was the lackluster story and the lackluster roleplaying mechanics/framework. And I really disagree with you when you say the story is coherent. If you look just a little deeper and question anyone's actions then the main characters come off as a bunch of morons. Seriously, TiM's plan is just downright stupid.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The_Technomancer said:
What plan?
Lostconfused
Member
All the important ones. Having Shepard run around the galaxy acting dumb is just something TIM does to keep himself entertained in spare time.ThoseDeafMutes said:
Mass Effect 1 might be my favorite game of all time.
The second entry in the series, while still decent, does not live up to its predecessor. It's less epic, has a zillion ridiculous chance encounters, replaces my awesome crew with a bunch of freaks I don't like, and then there is the planet scanning...
The second entry in the series, while still decent, does not live up to its predecessor. It's less epic, has a zillion ridiculous chance encounters, replaces my awesome crew with a bunch of freaks I don't like, and then there is the planet scanning...
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I must be one of the few that actually enjoyed ME and ME2 for different reasons. The combat improved in ME2 but at the cost of feeling more linear and less like an actual RPG. I still think the characters and story is top notch on both. The mining for elements on planets was quite boring on both so we'll see what they do for ME3. I just hope they don't waste time creating a multiplayer portion.
The_Technomancer said:
Well, then I guess we disagree on what exactly coherent means. I take it as are you able to follow along and understand what is happening. I think that describes ME2 since I really had no trouble following it.
From what you said, I would say that the word that best describes your issues with the story isn't 'incoherent', but 'stupid'.
Mass Effect 2 is an EXCELLENT game if taken as a standalone. The issue is that, at least for me, when I finished ME1 I came away thinking "Wow that was a great game, there were a lot of flaws with various game mechanics but I'm sure Bioware will fix all those things next time!"
and then...
"Oh, they just got rid of all those mechanics... ..okay"
and then...
"Oh, they just got rid of all those mechanics... ..okay"
Fimbulvetr
Member
Gonaria said:
Something is coherent when the elements of that thing fit into a consistent flow of logic.
Something can be coherent but hard to follow, or incoherent but easy to follow. The two are not intrinsically linked.
"Shepard died and came back to life with no repercussions just cause. Nobody seems to care, though." is pretty easy to get, it's still incoherent.
brotkasten
Member
I didn't know we had this thread. I hope it's okay when I repost this from the ME3 fem shep thread.
---
I know many didn't like the planet exploration in Mass Effect, but I really wish they'd bring it back in ME3. Most of the planets were really boring, ugly and had badly generated surfaces, I agree, but sometimes you stumbled on few planets with beautiful sky boxes ...
and you really got the feeling that you were exploring space and its uninhabited and barren planets and you were completely alone. Same goes for the creepy abandoned space or research stations with husks, geth or other enemies. Looked all the same, with the same layout, but sometimes the music was chilling and some of the stations even had some creepy back story. The atmosphere was really great and made you feel lonely in space. Man, how I missed that feeling in Mass Effect 2. Instead of building on it and improving it, they just scrapped everything and added crap like ship fuel and resources.
Of course it's not coming back in ME3. You're at war, who gives a shit about planet exploration.
---
I know many didn't like the planet exploration in Mass Effect, but I really wish they'd bring it back in ME3. Most of the planets were really boring, ugly and had badly generated surfaces, I agree, but sometimes you stumbled on few planets with beautiful sky boxes ...
and you really got the feeling that you were exploring space and its uninhabited and barren planets and you were completely alone. Same goes for the creepy abandoned space or research stations with husks, geth or other enemies. Looked all the same, with the same layout, but sometimes the music was chilling and some of the stations even had some creepy back story. The atmosphere was really great and made you feel lonely in space. Man, how I missed that feeling in Mass Effect 2. Instead of building on it and improving it, they just scrapped everything and added crap like ship fuel and resources.
Of course it's not coming back in ME3. You're at war, who gives a shit about planet exploration.
WrenchNinja
Member
"We fight or we die".Chinner said:
It's as flawless a plan if I've ever seen one.
Lostconfused
Member
It's a simple and easy to execute plan. But the die part I think should count as a major flaw.Crewnh said:
Gonaria said:
I didn't say that I thought it was dumbed down because it stripped out RPG elements. I don't know where you read that, but I didn't say that. And I sure as hell wasn't implying any of what you've suggested in that joke of a line at the end of your post.
brotkasten said:
It was dumbed down, for starters, because it was missing this. The "boring" shit that's normally to blame for people not wanting to watch SF films that don't feature space dogfights (not that there's anything wrong with them). The tone of the first game hinted at something akin to 2001: A Space Odyssey, and then they went and threw in a super linear, action-driven, Hollywood blockbuster of a storyline.
I don't really care about loot or an inventory if I'm not even the slightest bit in awe of the story that I'm watching unfold in front of me.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The first game followed a somewhat coherent path. There were some eye rolling moments (the Council just accepting the recording) but "Discover Saren is up to something -> Follow up leads and get an idea he's doing something big -> Destroy his cloning facility -> Stop his plan" was straightforward and entertaining.Petrichor said:
In contrast nothing TIM does or has you do makes any fucking sense. Every event in ME2 is contrived and illogical.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Crewnh said:
It's true, assuming he meant 'or' in the same way logicians and computer scientists do.
Bisnic said:Honestly, i dont get all the bitching about the franchise. Its not perfect, the Mako was sometimes frustrating, there's a few weird bugs in the 2nd game, plot isn't the best, but im having lots of fun in combat and during the dialogues in both ME games. And that's all that matters to me.
Sorry for not being part of the hivemind GAF.
I am with you. Bitching about this franchise is a waste of time as it is highly reviewed, sells well and is looked at as one of the top franchises this gen.
Fimbulvetr
Member
....what?Marleyman said:
LightofRohan
Member
Oh my, that new ME3 trailer had me shaking my head the entire time. What an embarrassment... couldnt they just do a sub ME game that was all about kicking ass with Dom and then keep the triology to what it should be?
Pixel Pete
Member
Two of my favourite games this gen. But then again, no promises are broken because I don't follow the development that closely. But I'd rather play ME2 over a good number of the coveted Gaf GOTY contenders
So... I completed Mass Effect 1 on the PC and then played through Mass Effect 2 on the PS3.
Since this is the bitching thread... Here we go... (Spoilers obviously)
#1 - Bioware's relationship development has been in a progressive downhill slide. I don't mind friendly banter between party members, but if I have created a character in your game that is essentially a no non-sense party leader I shouldn't be forced into a situation where nearly all of my dialog choices with my party members result in either flirtation or getting the party member annoyed with me. The only 'neutral' options a lot of the time is to just say 'goodbye'. This seems rather cheap.
#2 - I liked the Mako missions in Mass Effect 1, however they were flawed. There needed to be some more variety there... Something to really encourage exploration and random discovery. I was hoping that we were going to get this in Mass Effect 2 (tried to stay fairly blind before I played it), and was utterly disappointed that what we did get was a complete gutting of the system. Even if they limited the # of planets that you could actually explore but then create unique set of circumstances for those planets would have made a vast improvement. But I guess the most 'workable' solution for Bioware was to remove because it messed with the breakneck pace the game was gunning for. Blah.
#3 - The writing in Mass Effect seems to be rather hit and miss throughout the game, but I would be lying if I didn't say that both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 had some stellar 'Fuck Yea!' moments. I posted this in a previous thread, but the scene in Mass Effect 1 where you choose to save the Council (should you take the route) and have the Alliance storm in against the Geth fleet was perfectly executed in terms of tone and music choice. I was extremely impressed that despite how little there really was too that scene in terms of ultimate payoff I did get excited. I also had a good moment when the Salarian commander gave his battle speech about holding the line... (and had a chuckle revisiting it with Mordin). As for Mass Effect 2, seeing some of the old guys return was pretty happy... The attack on the Normandy 2 and taking over as Joker and the interactions with EDI (no matter how limited that sequence really was) I thought was also handle really well in terms of writing and set pieces.
#4 - One thing that I will say Mass Effect 2 pulled off over ME1 was the fact that Renegade Shepard wasn't defaulted to being a Xenophobic alien hater. I thought that for the Renegade at least - some of the dialog choices actually allowed you a bit more freedom in terms of the 'results' of your dialog compared to ME1. That's not to say every decision was like that in ME1, but it just seemed that most of your renegade options pointing you in that direction.
#5 - Female Shepard is definitely the better of the two actors. Jennifer Hale's voicework in the two games is heads and shoulders above the male Shepard's performance. And she delivers a lot of the renegade lines with a perfect banter that they need (or seriousness depending on the situation).
#6 - Mass Effect's combat in the first game was a sticking point for me, and while the second game improved it some, I really think that the game's (both) pidgeon hole-ing into a cover shooter creates some weird environments. Random crates, warehouses, perfectly shaped earth mounds... This stuff didn't seem natural in a lot of the areas they created and really distracted from the immersion of the game by being inherently 'game-y' in design. This was a bit of a shame for me, because by the end of ME2 I got tired of seeing all the damn 'fences' in the environments. The game really would've benefited from some more 'open' combat encounters... (or an engine designed around some more of those options).
#7 - I felt shorted by the ending of Mass Effect 2. I know it was planned to be a trilogy and such, but the whole sequence of events leading up to the collector base and it's destruction seemed rushed (which was odd considering that a lot of the acts in the game prior to that seemed to be stretched out too much), and it sort of hurt my impression of the 'finale'. I also fucking hated the human reaper boss design. I sort of vomited in my mouth a bit when I saw that the first time as there was nothing about that whole reveal that was handled well or in a way that really befitted the rest of the game.
With all that said, both games were solid (Mass Effect 1 > Mass Effect 2). I think I enjoyed ME1 more than Dragon Age 1. And I definitely enjoyed ME2 more than DA2. I just wish there were more games coming out that would take some of the concepts from the Mass Effect franchise and apply them to a bit more 'crunchy' RPG with a lot more of a focus on exploration rather than the story line.
Since this is the bitching thread... Here we go... (Spoilers obviously)
#1 - Bioware's relationship development has been in a progressive downhill slide. I don't mind friendly banter between party members, but if I have created a character in your game that is essentially a no non-sense party leader I shouldn't be forced into a situation where nearly all of my dialog choices with my party members result in either flirtation or getting the party member annoyed with me. The only 'neutral' options a lot of the time is to just say 'goodbye'. This seems rather cheap.
#2 - I liked the Mako missions in Mass Effect 1, however they were flawed. There needed to be some more variety there... Something to really encourage exploration and random discovery. I was hoping that we were going to get this in Mass Effect 2 (tried to stay fairly blind before I played it), and was utterly disappointed that what we did get was a complete gutting of the system. Even if they limited the # of planets that you could actually explore but then create unique set of circumstances for those planets would have made a vast improvement. But I guess the most 'workable' solution for Bioware was to remove because it messed with the breakneck pace the game was gunning for. Blah.
#3 - The writing in Mass Effect seems to be rather hit and miss throughout the game, but I would be lying if I didn't say that both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 had some stellar 'Fuck Yea!' moments. I posted this in a previous thread, but the scene in Mass Effect 1 where you choose to save the Council (should you take the route) and have the Alliance storm in against the Geth fleet was perfectly executed in terms of tone and music choice. I was extremely impressed that despite how little there really was too that scene in terms of ultimate payoff I did get excited. I also had a good moment when the Salarian commander gave his battle speech about holding the line... (and had a chuckle revisiting it with Mordin). As for Mass Effect 2, seeing some of the old guys return was pretty happy... The attack on the Normandy 2 and taking over as Joker and the interactions with EDI (no matter how limited that sequence really was) I thought was also handle really well in terms of writing and set pieces.
#4 - One thing that I will say Mass Effect 2 pulled off over ME1 was the fact that Renegade Shepard wasn't defaulted to being a Xenophobic alien hater. I thought that for the Renegade at least - some of the dialog choices actually allowed you a bit more freedom in terms of the 'results' of your dialog compared to ME1. That's not to say every decision was like that in ME1, but it just seemed that most of your renegade options pointing you in that direction.
#5 - Female Shepard is definitely the better of the two actors. Jennifer Hale's voicework in the two games is heads and shoulders above the male Shepard's performance. And she delivers a lot of the renegade lines with a perfect banter that they need (or seriousness depending on the situation).
#6 - Mass Effect's combat in the first game was a sticking point for me, and while the second game improved it some, I really think that the game's (both) pidgeon hole-ing into a cover shooter creates some weird environments. Random crates, warehouses, perfectly shaped earth mounds... This stuff didn't seem natural in a lot of the areas they created and really distracted from the immersion of the game by being inherently 'game-y' in design. This was a bit of a shame for me, because by the end of ME2 I got tired of seeing all the damn 'fences' in the environments. The game really would've benefited from some more 'open' combat encounters... (or an engine designed around some more of those options).
#7 - I felt shorted by the ending of Mass Effect 2. I know it was planned to be a trilogy and such, but the whole sequence of events leading up to the collector base and it's destruction seemed rushed (which was odd considering that a lot of the acts in the game prior to that seemed to be stretched out too much), and it sort of hurt my impression of the 'finale'. I also fucking hated the human reaper boss design. I sort of vomited in my mouth a bit when I saw that the first time as there was nothing about that whole reveal that was handled well or in a way that really befitted the rest of the game.
With all that said, both games were solid (Mass Effect 1 > Mass Effect 2). I think I enjoyed ME1 more than Dragon Age 1. And I definitely enjoyed ME2 more than DA2. I just wish there were more games coming out that would take some of the concepts from the Mass Effect franchise and apply them to a bit more 'crunchy' RPG with a lot more of a focus on exploration rather than the story line.
Typographenia
Member
Pucker up, Harbinger!Gvaz said:
Ventilaator
Banned
Mass Effect 2 is only superior to the first game in graphics and the amount of Mordin contained within.
Other than that, fuck Mass Effect 2.
Other than that, fuck Mass Effect 2.
sixteen-bit
Member
Valid assessmentVentilaator said:
Blue Ninja
Member
Yeah, that girl doing the Bioware Facebook/Twitter has made me facepalm several times already. That one was just too much. :lolGvaz said:
The more dynamic dialog camera as well. In ME1, the camera had maybe three positions. In ME2, they really worked on that.Ventilaator said:
I can understand why so many people here loathe ME2. It's still one of my favorite games, though, despite its flaws, and that's not likely to change soon.