Mass Effect Franchise bitching thread

Fimbulvetr said:
So people should have low standards?


I make fun of lots of horrible stories in games.

Just look at that recent AssCreed thread, the LTTP: Chrono Cross thread a week back, or any FFXIII and Kingdom Hearts thread. I'm not singling this shit out.
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Its not a low standard if there isnt a higher standard to compare it against.

What im saying is in a complaint thread about a game you should have a complaint about that game specifically, not a complaint that applies to every other game in the genre. Otherwise you could copy and paste that exact same message in every rpg thread ever posted on this forum and it would be applicable.

The_Technomancer said:
Other games aren't sold as immersive, interactive narratives. If BioWare is going to talk the talk then we expect them to walk the walk.
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What? If rpgs are sold as anything its immersive interactive narratives. Those are the two main things people talk about with rpgs, the narrative and immersion of the world.
 
Gravijah said:
uhm sir charmander is the first in its evolutionary line your analogy would make more sense if you said shepmeleon
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RgblG.gif
 
DatBreh said:
Its not a low standard if there isnt a higher standard to compare it against.
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If the big developers want to make games with storylines that are similar to movies and books then I will judge them by the standards of movies and books. When your game is trying to present a cinematic experience people will call you out on utterly incoherent behavior and large plot holes. When your game is sold on "every choice matters" people will call you out on choice meaning zip shit .

I don't give Super Mario Galaxy 2 grief for its story because its not trying to have a good one. Mass Effect is, and its not doing very well.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Part of this is just an inherent problem with the structural design of Mass Effect 2, where they only give you a handful of mandatory missions so the entire arc of the game is weak. The first game was better in this regard, especially with its limited cast: what I would have found more interesting was if they gave every character unique lines, viewpoints, and changing opinions on the overall events as the story progressed (to a much greater degree then they actually did) This wouldn't be feasible with ten characters even if they had done it though, just because of the content generation requirements, which is why I think the game would have been better with four or five.
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I agree with that 100%. It seems that the developers had the lay out of the game in mind (amass characters, do loyalty missions, then win) so the only way to lengthen the game was to throw some more characters in there.

That said- I actually like a lot of the new characters, so it's a wash to me. But your point is still valid.
 
DatBreh said:
Its not a low standard if there isnt a higher standard to compare it against.
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I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that you think we should excuse problems instead of improving them or the idea that ME2 is the top of the list in terms of videogame stories.

DatBreh said:
What im saying is in a complaint thread about a game you should have a complaint about that game specifically, not a complaint that applies to every other game in the genre.
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It doesn't.

DatBreh said:
Otherwise you could copy and paste that exact same message in every rpg thread ever posted on this forum and it would be applicable.
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Planescape: Torrment handles protagonist death better than ME2.

Tactics Ogre handles links between optional characters/events and the main plot better than ME2.

Come at me.
 
Knights of the Old Republic II doesn't have these issues (shift in tone, purpose, fundamental mechanics, the very genre is played).
nor does Planescape
nor does Vampire: Masquerade
nor does Arcanum
nor does Alpha Protocol

it's like, we are discussing issues pertinent to Mass Effect only. woah. The aforementioned games are full of problems, but they are analyzed on their own.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
The "team" that's so vaunted throughout the game isn't a true team, it's a bunch of people who all happen to know Shepard and owe him something.
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Bioware could learn something from Atlus. I love how in Persona 4, you have a small group of friends that actually grows as a team. They talk to each other all the time, in cutscenes, in dungeons and in battle. They actually feel like friends who have bonded and would do anything for each other. You still have them all pretty much depending on you as the protagonist but they still feel like they have lives outside you.

Then you look at ME2 and no one gives a fuck about anyone else except you. What kind of team is that? Not a team at all, like you said.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Planescape: Torrment handles protagonist death better than ME2.

Tactics Ogre handles links between optional characters/events and the main plot better than ME2.

Come at me.
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I dont have to come at you because now you are being specific and we can discuss those problems. But when someone simply posts "It has huge major plot holes and inconsistencies" that can apply to every other RPG out there.

The_Technomancer said:
If the big developers want to make games with storylines that are similar to movies and books then I will judge them by the standards of movies and books.
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How do you come to the determination that RPG 1 is trying for a movie/book storyline and RPG 2 isnt? Ive never played an rpg and thought, ok this is trying to be like a movie/book and this one isnt. Would FFX qualify for the movie storyline? It certainly has a better story than some movies ive seen but it still has major holes. How about FFVI? Suikoden II? Or is it that technology has advanced so much that these games can offer scenes with great cinematography so now your "standards" have been raised as opposed to when the games featured simple 2D backdrops.
 
DatBreh said:
I dont have to come at you because now you are being specific and we can discuss those problems. But when someone simply posts "It has huge major plot holes and inconsistencies" that can apply to every other RPG out there.
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People were already being specific. They just weren't throwing examples of other games in.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
People were already being specific. They just weren't throwing examples of other games in.
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Billychu said:
It has huge major plot holes and inconsistencies, that's the problem.
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Thats specific to you? When someone asks what the problem was with the story you dont just throw out a blanket statement like that.
 
DatBreh said:
Thats specific to you? When someone asks what the problem was with the story you dont just throw out a blanket statement like that.
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You can just look back at other posts in the thread to see specific examples.

Isn't using one poster's blanket statement to claim nobody was being specific itself a blanket statement?
 
selection bias, pick only things that reinforce your argument and not the vast amounts of statements which don't. this is a pretty big thread for the topic, and people like fimbulvetr, technomancer and emceegramar have explained with some eloquence very, very specific issues
 
Crewnh said:
Then you look at ME2 and no one gives a fuck about anyone else except you. What kind of team is that? Not a team at all, like you said.
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Does a team really need to be best friends forever to archive his goals?
 
Fimbulvetr said:
You can just look back at other posts in the thread to see specific examples.

Isn't using one poster's blanket statement to claim nobody was being specific itself a blanket statement?
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I was only referring to that post though, thats why i quoted it. I didnt say nobody was being specific.

Alpha-Bromega said:
selection bias, pick only things that reinforce your argument and not the vast amounts of statements which don't. this is a pretty big thread for the topic, and people like fimbulvetr, technomancer and emceegramar have explained with some eloquence very, very specific issues
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My argument the entire time was that specific post was too general for this topic. It has nothing to do with other posters and their comments.
 
tiff said:
No, but they need to be on good terms with their dads.
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Otherwise they are too distracted.

Somtaaw said:
Does a team really need to be best friends forever to archive his goals?
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They don't need to be best friends forever, but it would help if the people living on the same ship together acted with some degree of real familiarity.
 
Somtaaw said:
Does a team really need to be best friends forever to archive his goals?
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no but they need to interact with eachother like real life humans (because soft sci fi aliens are just metaphors for different races anyway)
 
Somtaaw said:
Does a team really need to be best friends forever to archive his goals?
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They don't even really care about the main plot, which is a much bigger issue than not caring about eachother.

Reapers? Collectors? What about MY daddy issues?
 
Crewnh said:
Then you look at ME2 and no one gives a fuck about anyone else except you. What kind of team is that? Not a team at all, like you said.
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Well, there are the characters that want to kill each other. Though for all their posturing, they never seem to actually get around to it. On that point, I would've enjoyed a Keldorn/Viconia type conflict that couldn't simply be renegaded away.
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
The shift in tone between the games is almost hard to even take in. The immersive 80's sci fi feel of the first game was completely exchanged for 'hip' modern shooter feel, it's atmosphere was almost non existent and any that could be created was absolutely destroyed by "MISSION COMPLETE' screens and a overall feeling of artificial-ness that permeated through everything.
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This.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
The entire game is based around building a team and nobody seems to like each other or even talk to each other. They only interact on a meaningful level with Shepard.
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About the "not talking to each other": Miranda "talks" with Jack, and Tali "talks" with Legion... and... yeah, the team sucks.

Why those people even want to work with each other? They are all going on a suicidal mission, where they will probably have to die for each other (
lol, not really
), yet they all acts either like a bunch of crybabies, or just stays in their room and doesn't even acknowledge other team members.

Also, the mission doesn't even interest them. Other than Mordin doing research on the Collectors' bug, the entire squad is just sitting and minding their own businesses. At least in ME1 after each story mission all squad members sit in the conference room and discuss what they've learn and what they should do now. Here - nothing.

I really liked how Dragon Age: Origins handled the team, through banters, through argues and commenting on your decisions during various missions.
 
IoCaster said:
It seems that you've all missed the main point. The complaint was about mission complete screens and why they exist in ME2. Here's a hint, they're a contrivance to obscure the part of no in mission leveling. The BioWare argument has been that leveling up during the course of a mission would break 'immersion' for the player, but there is the counter-argument that the mission complete screens themselves are immersion busting.

Now I'll tackle these one at a time...



(1) All it does is reinforce the linear nature of those missions and how meaningless and inconsequential they ultimately are. You could go stop a shipwrecked freighter from plummeting off of a cliff and gain as much XP as killing scores of husks at an abandoned mine.



(2) That has absolutely no relevance to ME2. Perhaps you can give some examples of quests in your MMO and how they might relate to any one mission in ME2 for an example. Comparing an MMO to a hybrid TPS/RPG lite is kind of questionable at best.



(3) It matters in the sense that a player can choose to undertake a main/loyalty quest vs an N7 mission to gain a level. It matters to the player that tracks XP and can choose to tackle a main/loyalty quest knowing that they'll level up mid-mission for the talent upgrade they seek. It matters most of all to the player that expects choices when they play a supposed RPG. It matters to me because I like to have those options. YMMV
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(1) Each mission gives a different amount of experience, if I am not mistaken, so yes actually exploring a freighter and killing husks can give different totals. But even if that wasn't the case, why should "fighting" be inherently more xp gaining then non combat scenarios?

(2) I didn't realize that TPS/RPG models had established and specific "quest" and "reward" systems that had to be adhered too.

(3) So, basically, leveling up after missions is bad only because you don't like it? I don't see how it isn't a valid option. And why is it that your definition if "choice" is that you can possibly gain a skill point during a mission? I don't understand how that is choice. By that reasoning you should also be able to "respec" and retool your weaponry at any point because that too would be a "choice".
 
Crewnh said:
Bioware could learn something from Atlus. I love how in Persona 4, you have a small group of friends that actually grows as a team. They talk to each other all the time, in cutscenes, in dungeons and in battle. They actually feel like friends who have bonded and would do anything for each other. You still have them all pretty much depending on you as the protagonist but they still feel like they have lives outside you.

Then you look at ME2 and no one gives a fuck about anyone else except you. What kind of team is that? Not a team at all, like you said.
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I never thought of it that way - now that I think about it, the only interactions between teammates in ME2 I can remember were negative, and required Shep to break up a fight of some sort. There was no party banter, no friendships, and even the rivalries were episodic and never revisted again. At least Dragon Age II showed your party members to have a life outside of questing with you...some would even hook up if you didn't claim them first. So it's not as if Bioware doesn't know how to create a cohesive cast of characters...
 
You know, I'd forgotten the post-mission briefings from ME1. I remembered that your squad would comment on the missions (and not just Joker), but I'd forgotten that the group would actually all sit around and discuss the outcome of the mission together. I mean, there was usually a short scene after you recruited someone in ME2 with Jacob or Miranda, but it's not really the same.

Then again, the vast majority of ME2's missions were recruitment missions, so I guess most of the time your team wouldn't have anything to say on the subject - but it's still a little isolating.
 
GrandHarrier said:
(1) Each mission gives a different amount of experience, if I am not mistaken, so yes actually exploring a freighter and killing husks can give different totals. But even if that wasn't the case, why should "fighting" be inherently more xp gaining then non combat scenarios?

(2) I didn't realize that TPS/RPG models had established and specific "quest" and "reward" systems that had to be adhered too.

(3) So, basically, leveling up after missions is bad only because you don't like it? I don't see how it isn't a valid option. And why is it that your definition if "choice" is that you can possibly gain a skill point during a mission? I don't understand how that is choice. By that reasoning you should also be able to "respec" and retool your weaponry at any point because that too would be a "choice".
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1- You're mistaken. Main/loyalty missions give a set amount. The N7 missions give a lower but also set amount.

2- I asked for an example(s) so that the merits/relevance of the comparison could be ascertained. Regardless...
"Comparing an MMO to a hybrid TPS/RPG lite is kind of questionable at best."
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... is a valid point. Different mission/quest structures and objectives gameplay wise.

3- You're reaching here buddy. A "choice" amongst many. It's not that difficult to understand. A recent example is in ME if I wanted to boost my leveling I would exit the Mako and get my kills on foot because of the XP gain. I stated my preference without at any point claiming that it's the only "valid" option. I never made any mention of "respec" or "retool" in my post so how is that relevant? In any case, since you brought it up, in ME you did have the ability to retool (modify) your weapons mid-mission. In ME2 you can "respec" after Horizon although not mid-mission. These are choices/options that are put in the players hands and the game is better for having them. What exactly is your problem with that?
 
really? are you serious? why would you want to kill the game like that? the interface is the pc me games is just so much better than the stupid wheel on the 360...asking for console ports on pc games is just wrong
 
what DLC is worth buying? Do any of them have story-driven elements that are worth the price of admission, or am I just going to start screaming at my television out of blood-boiling rage?

I haven't bought any DLC for ME at all. I think Bring Down the Skies scared me off with the numerous poor reviews and I didn't revisit DLC.

Is it worth paying for Arrival, or would I feel better about myself reading the synopsis? I'd rather do something exploratory, or experience something with a truly intriguing plot than get involved in a bitch'n firefight or view a few cut scenes about how frakk'n awesome Sheppard is...
 
Don't "buy" any of them.

If you're set on playing them though, just do lair of the shadow broker. Maybe Overlord. The rest are bring down the sky level of quality.

Also charging people for suit retextures, I "strongly dislike" anyone who supported that shit.
 
I think it was more of the promise for constant dlc, and they released one and a cheapass scoreboard dlc that was extremely shallow and that was it.

The first one was just like 2 hours or something. It wasn't bad
 
Thanks. I refuse to pay for new "costumes" as a rule--no worries. Wasn't even aware they did that with ME2. Doesn't surprise me though. Not one bit.

Ashley's default armour was sexier than Miranda's catsuit anyway...I assume that was the angle of the costume DLC? Or capitalize on the Tali fetishists?
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Pretty much.

Also, why was Bring Down the Sky so horrible? I never played it.
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Bring Down the Sky wasn't terrible. It had some interesting Mako segments and it has one of the better moral choices in most of BioWare history towards the end. But a lot of that DLC was de-fanged when the only impact it had on ME2 was whether or not you get a bombastic email from some one.

Pinnacle Station was just shit through and through, though.
 
Peter.Simpson909 said:
Thanks. I refuse to pay for new "costumes" as a rule--no worries. Wasn't even aware they did that with ME2. Doesn't surprise me though. Not one bit.

Ashley's default armour was sexier than Miranda's catsuit anyway...I assume that was the angle of the costume DLC? Or capitalize on the Tali fetishists?
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but dude don't you want the Affliction(tm) tight shirt edition that will come with Vega's special edition? bicep implant DLC coming soon
 
I had some huge issues with buying Bioware points. Eventually they just added some to my account because they couldn't even figure out if I had purchased them or not.
 
That's not DD's fault, that's EA's fault. There's a reason no one likes EA.

As for who to contact, your best bet is to try contacting them, or try linking your ME2 cdkey to their new Origin "STEAM KILLER" program.
 
Gvaz said:
That's not DD's fault, that's EA's fault. There's a reason no one likes EA.

As for who to contact, your best bet is to try contacting them, or try linking your ME2 cdkey to their new Origin "STEAM KILLER" program.
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True. I have not had this issue with Steam...though I did have a username/password issue with Steam that took 3 days to work out...

I would love to contact them--EVERY contact link I can find dumps me back at the login loop...

I suspect I need to speak with a human being about this. I'm not sure how linking my cdkey to my account would get me there though...its the DLC for ME1 I bought that I'm curious about/after (and you know, losing everything).
 
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