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[Typographenia]

It's like for every reasonable solution Bioware could have implemented, they over-corrected and damaged what a lot of people did like about the original.

This is an accurate description of my issues with ME2.

I can look past the horrible story, and other various narrative flaws because I just really like the universe. I like the races, architecture, characters, and all that junk. It's just that the things that needed fixing weren't fixed, they were neutered.

That's why I'm hoping (please, not in vain) that they will strike a middle ground between the two.



And just because I can talk about the mako-
I really want to see planet exploration return. Give me fewer planets if it comes to that, but keep that variety of locations in ME2. Change up the gravity some too! I didn't mind just roaming around, finding stuff, or fighting baddies. It was sad to see it axed entirely until the firewalker dlc. Too bad that was all corridor stuff, just like the game's combat.


edit:

Right, when your previous villain is an ancient robot squid, it does make it even more silly when the final boss of the sequel is a giant robo skelly bones with three eyes who is a baby made out of people goo.

To be fair, the husks have always had three eyes.

 

[Sennorin]

Um. Nope. The classes between the two games are exactly the same in terms of overall architecture.

But every class got special powers that felt like biotic powers in execution. The soldier class´ adrenaline slow-mo is basically a biotic-like power. The great thing about ME1 was how vastly unique each class really was. As a solider, you were the weapon-tank, high health, can use all weapons, no special powers. As a tech specialist, you could manipulate enemies and weaken them to take them down with your limited weaponry. As a biotic user, you started out as the weakest of all classes. Only capable of using the pistol, no heavy armor for you. But as you progressed in the game, you basically turned into a demi-god that could seriously f*** hordes of enemies by making them hover in mid-air, freezing their movement or simply push them to death.
ME2 had no limitations in terms of weapons and had a lot of overlapping special powers, which resulted in highly lowered replay-value.

Also, MrOogieBoogie´s posting makes me sad. Such a beautiful game, ME1 :/

 

[WanderingWind]

Also something I never realized that someone on another site brought up: throughout the entire game they keep talking about "the mission" and how they might not come back and how they need a team, etc. And since you'd been tuned into the ME2 marketing, you knew it was a "suicide mission" against the Collectors.

But in the game, nobody actually explains why it's a suicide mission because nobody knows what they're going to do on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay. There's no planning, there's no speculation about what's on the other side except more Collectors, nothing until they figure out that their base is near the galactic core (lol). It's not until they get there and crash the Normandy 2 on the base that they finally go "Hmm, now let's make a plan of attack here."

It's just, "It's a suicide mission! We'll need the best small squad of elite fighters, hackers, and scientists in the galaxy to take them down." When in reality, nobody knows what's on the other side or what the mission actually is. What if there were two Collector bases? What if it was some kind of solar system of Collectors? Or there was a (adult) Reaper there? How the fuck would a small 13-man team in a cruiser take down that?

But no, it's conveniently just a single base that can be taken down by a team comprised of unique little snowflakes perfectly suited for its obstacles.

Or if the relay was just a fucking dud that would shoot them into a black hole. Pretty awesome way to get rid of a super elite team of badasses. Sabotage relay, send out a broke ship with token resistance, put out rumors of its location and availability of an IFF. Wait for do-gooders to grab IFF, wait for them to jump into the heart of a black hole.

Take over galaxy at leisure.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I enjoyed both ME1 and ME2. I am a hethen I guess. Unless of course my decision to remain faithful to Liara results in a giant uncensored Asari blue lesbian orgy. If so, I will point and laugh.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm trying to figure out how I would have handled ME2. I've already decided that I want it to be set 50 years after the first, that it would follow a Cerberus operative, and that Shepard would still be diligently working against the Reapers, her Spectre status intact, even if most people don't believe the threat is real. She'd only be a background/overlapping character though.

But I can't work out a good idea for a central plot element, that fills both the need for a rising action middle arc in the main trilogy while also having its own self contained progression.

 

[truly101]

Maybe the Reapers will be beat by the power of culture! They've never felt love, so we just need to blast some music their way.

What, Lin Minmay? I'll kill you for this.

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

I don't get this from ME1 at all. For one, I keep seeing people say ME1 was a great homage to the whole space sagas from the 50's 60's, 70's 80's. This is boggling to me as space operas from the 50's and 60's were very different stylistically from those in the 70's and 80's. In terms of art style ME1 draws far more from the 70's 80's style and ME2 is very consistent with it.
In terms of world building, sure, the first game in a series in going to be usually be stronger in that dept than the sequel, it has more to establish. In terms of non-combat gameplay systems, I'm completely lost here. ME1 was essentially dialogue trees and bad combat, 2 doesn't deviate much from that formula other than the combat is better. Actually there are more combat free side missions in ME2 than ME1.
I think it also needs to be acknowledged that Bioware painted themselves in a corner when they ended ME1. Saren is dead, Sovereign is destroyed, their chief method for infiltrating the galaxy has been activated and thwarted. Bioware essentially left the second game with nothing to build on other than the nebulous "the reapers are out there..." sure whatever.
What I'd really want to know from people that liked ME1 more strictly based on potential, is what did you honestly expect this series to be? I don't mean this as an insult or troll attempt, I mean a serious answer. What did you think this game would become other than what it is? Anything to compare it to? See, to me, I didn't follow the ME1 hype train up to release because I didn't get a 360 until after it dropped. All I knew was people were expecting it to essentially be a Star Wars free Kotor with a more involved and dynamic dialogue tree (that didn't really pan out) My expectations were much more tempered and in line with what was actually in the game. I think part of that has to do with being a console gamer. I had no grandiose hopes for the ME series and when I played ME2, it seemed obvious to me, that it was the game ME1 wanted to be (story notwithstanding). People who saw some other lionized vision for it just confused me, I didn't get any of that from the first game at all. But I think it would help if I knew better what people hoped they were getting, instead of what they got.

This is one of the better arguments I've heard but part of the problem is that ME2 realizes almost everything the first game did but in entirely different ways. You see Asari, Krogan, Quarian, and Salarian culture first hand whereas you only saw glimpses through dialogue trees in ME1 and you actually visit many of their home worlds first hand. Like the first side quests are only available in a few locations, and you arguably have a more in depth upgrade system through mineral mining and research options on the ship. Bioware re-arranged the fridge, all the juicy food is still there but some gaffers set unrealistically high expectations that were never realized in the first place or were simply realized in ways other than that which they expected. DA2 will not beget ME3...

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Uncharted worlds... with nothing on them... and no meaningful gameplay. Great. The more I hear about ME1 the more it reminds me of how much of a mediocre ARPG it was.

Yes, because every planet should be FULL OF LIFE! No.

I loved the fact that the planets were pretty much desolate. Felt like I was exploring something no one else had.

 

[Atrus]

They only called it a suicide mission because nobody had ever returned from the Omega 4 Relay other than the Collectors, so anything that involved going to the other side was deemed to be suicide.

Of course they didn't actually know what the hell they were going to do on the other side anyway except to magically find a way to stop the Collectors.

Basically the story was about reviving Shepard only to send him/her on a suicide run with some of the more capable sidekicks we can find, in the vague hope they magically find a way to stop the Collectors and maybe the Reapers.

If it was me and I were to stop such a threat I'd just blow apart the Omega 4 relay or mine the damn thing and place an active task force to clean up whatever remains. It's really only because Shepard is the player character that the game doesn't end with everyone colliding into debris on the other side of the relay.

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm trying to figure out how I would have handled ME2. I've already decided that I want it to be set 50 years after the first, that it would follow a Cerberus operative, and that Shepard would still be diligently working against the Reapers, her Spectre status intact, even if most people don't believe the threat is real. She'd only be a background/overlapping character though.

But I can't work out a good idea for a central plot element, that fills both the need for a rising action middle arc in the main trilogy while also having its own self contained progression.

I would have kept the entirety of ME2, but actually remembered to create the other half of the game. You know, the Collectors are stopped, but now the team must begin to put the tech and knowledge found to use in preparing for the invasion. Arrival would have made a nice finale for the actual game, too.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Right, when your previous villain is an ancient robot squid, it does make it even more silly when the final boss of the sequel is a giant robo skelly bones with three eyes who is a baby made out of people goo.


Also something I never realized that someone on another site brought up: throughout the entire game they keep talking about "the mission" and how they might not come back and how they need a team, etc. And since you'd been tuned into the ME2 marketing, you knew it was a "suicide mission" against the Collectors.

But in the game, nobody actually explains why it's a suicide mission because nobody knows what they're going to do on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay. There's no planning, there's no speculation about what's on the other side except more Collectors, nothing until they figure out that their base is near the galactic core (lol). It's not until they get there and crash the Normandy 2 on the base that they finally go "Hmm, now let's make a plan of attack here."

It's just, "It's a suicide mission! We'll need the best small squad of elite fighters, hackers, and scientists in the galaxy to take them down." When in reality, nobody knows what's on the other side or what the mission actually is. What if there were two Collector bases? What if it was some kind of solar system of Collectors? Or there was a (adult) Reaper there? How the fuck would a small 13-man team in a cruiser take down that?

But no, it's conveniently just a single base that can be taken down by a team comprised of unique little snowflakes perfectly suited for its obstacles.

Icon and natural born leader.

I dunno, ME1 is pretty easy to rip as well. ATTACK OF THE ROBOTIC CUTTLEFISH FROM DIMENSION X!!!!!!! Sure the T-800 super boss was not great, but when your previous villain is a robot cuttlefish...well....

ME1's villains weren't nearly as woefully incompetent as ME2's:

Plan to kidnap Shep's friend.
Successfully paralyze said friend, but fail to collect them for no reason.
Accomplish nothing and get scared off by inferior weaponry.

OR

Get aboard enemy spaceship.
Kidnap people whose names I can't really remember, yet fail to capture talkative disabled pilot.
Don't actually sabotage ship.

 

[Typographenia]

What I do not get is what makes people so apeshit for them. Every aspect of the games is average at best. Their universe feels like it was ripped from a random stack of sci-fi books, their characters are "hey look at my one unusual character trait that will be the focus of a sidequest", and the various gameplay has been done much better in tons of games. Every time I see someone say "ME2's story was amazing" my head feels like it's going to explode.

That's something I'm still not able to pin down, personally.
I can clearly see how everything in this game is derivative of something else in sci-fi. There's really not much at all in the way of originality going on, yet I love it. I guess the presentation just hits my spot, or it's just I haven't been exposed to the setting in a way before in gaming that appealed to me this way.

I've always been a sucker for the space themed shows, movies, games, and animes. ME just does something I like.

 

[maxxpower]

I blame EA.

 

[a Master Ninja]

To be fair, the husks have always had three eyes.
http://i.imgur.com/xGRlg.jpg

You...you just made me hate ME2's boss a little less.

 

[The Technomancer]

Get aboard enemy spaceship.
Kidnap people whose names I can't really remember, yet fail to capture talkative disabled pilot.
Don't actually sabotage ship.

Oh yeah, that entire mission was the lowlight of ME2 for me, which sucks because I love Joker and I like that they were trying to give him and EVI an actual arc.
I mean, even if I ignore all the other problems, I had no mission to be on. That occurred right after I had finished all loyalty, and right before I was going to make the Omega-4 jump. There was no reason to leave, and there was no reason to take everyone with me.

 

[Orayn]

I blame EA.

Bioware is perfectly capable of making terrible, awkward design decisions on their own, I'm afraid. While DA2 may have suffered specifically due to a rush, I think too many people are using EA as a scapegoat because they don't want to believe that such a cool studio could be losing their way in such a dramatic fashion.

 

[Rezbit]

I honestly do love both of them. The gameplay in ME2 is definitely a lot tighter, and I still did enjoy the story and dialogue, even if the end is a bit silly. The problem is that ME2 FELT like a game. Sure so did ME1 once you got into the menus, but it did still have that sort of flowing, TV show sort of vibe. But adding things like ammo, mission breakdown screens, etc. just removed a bit of the immersion.

Oh and scanning was balls. Side missions may have been better in ME2 but honestly. More exploration, less scanning please.

 

[truly101]

They only called it a suicide mission because nobody had ever returned from the Omega 4 Relay other than the Collectors, so anything that involved going to the other side was deemed to be suicide.

Of course they didn't actually know what the hell they were going to do on the other side anyway except to magically find a way to stop the Collectors.

Basically the story was about reviving Shepard only to send him/her on a suicide run with some of the more capable sidekicks we can find, in the vague hope they magically find a way to stop the Collectors and maybe the Reapers.

If it was me and I were to stop such a threat I'd just blow apart the Omega 4 relay or mine the damn thing and place an active task force to clean up whatever remains. It's really only because Shepard is the player character that the game doesn't end with everyone colliding into debris on the other side of the relay.

Simply blowing up the Omega 4 relay makes too much sense and is thus not allowed. These are vidya game stories, yo. where else you're going to put all this contrived bullshit?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

People should complain less about Mass Effect 2 and more about Mass Effect 1. The latter game was broken, filled with bloat, had universally boring characters (except for Wrex and Ashley), re-used bland locations almost as much as Dragon Age 2, was mediocre at story and dialogue and downright bad at gameplay. It was a fundamentally dumbed-down game and a significant step down from Baldur's Gate 2.

ME2 had problems, sure, but the action was actually half-competent and the characters were infinitely more interesting. The writing was generally better (the Mordin Solus stuff was a clear standout) and the scenarios were less repetitive and more distinct. There were inconsistencies and retcons from the first game, of course, but who cares when the first game was so mediocre?

I haven't played ME2 because the first one bored me so much. Granted I only put in a little over two hours but I could tell the gameplay wasn't interesting in the least so I was done.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Simply blowing up the Omega 4 relay makes too much sense and is thus not allowed. These are vidya game stories, yo. where else you're going to put all this contrived bullshit?

The best part? The Omega 4 has no sister Relay.

Every time the collectors want to get to the civilized parts of the galaxy they have to brute force it through exploding suns and black holes.

 

[Somtaaw]

If it was me and I were to stop such a threat I'd just blow apart the Omega 4 relay or mine the damn thing and place an active task force to clean up whatever remains. It's really only because Shepard is the player character that the game doesn't end with everyone colliding into debris on the other side of the relay.

You blow the omega relay you may cause a conflict with the terminus systems.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Also in both games the way that BioWare handles the Council makes no sense but they do it in very different, yet still incredibly cheap ways.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

You blow the omega relay you may cause a conflict with the terminus systems.

So more people hate Cerberus?

Oh noes.

Blowing up a Relay should technically be impossible due to one of them surviving a super nova's wake.

 

[The Technomancer]

The best part? The Omega 4 has no sister Relay.

Every time the collectors want to get to the civilized parts of the galaxy they have to brute force it through exploding suns and black holes.

How does Shepard and crew get back again?

 

[tiff]

People should complain less about Mass Effect 2 and more about Mass Effect 1. The latter game was broken, filled with bloat, had universally boring characters (except for Wrex and Ashley), re-used bland locations almost as much as Dragon Age 2, was mediocre at story and dialogue and downright bad at gameplay. It was a fundamentally dumbed-down game and a significant step down from Baldur's Gate 2.

ME2 had problems, sure, but the action was actually half-competent and the characters were infinitely more interesting. The writing was generally better (the Mordin Solus stuff was a clear standout) and the scenarios were less repetitive and more distinct. There were inconsistencies and retcons from the first game, of course, but who cares when the first game was so mediocre?

I agree, but a fully-realized ME1 would have beaten the hell out of even a flawless ME2.

 

[Derrick01]

I blame EA.

EA pretty much lets Bioware do what they want. I do think they rushed DA2 out but with ME they let them do whatever.

Bioware's given hints out that they were heading this direction, as each game they released got a little less hardcore and a little less rpg until it finally sprouted into the horribleness that was ME2. There's even quotes of them either before ME1 or right after from the doctors talking about how they wanted to move more into action, and how they admired san andreas as a rpg (sigh).

tl;dr, Bioware set their fate years ago.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

How does Shepard and crew get back again?

Icon and natural born leader.

.

 

[Chiggs]

That Contra robot is one of the most embarrassing reveals in gaming history.

All that work, and all that ominous forboding for a killer robot. How stupid.

 

[truly101]

ME1's villains weren't nearly as woefully incompetent as ME2's:

Plan to kidnap Shep's friend.
Successfully paralyze said friend, but fail to collect them for no reason.
Accomplish nothing and get scared off by inferior weaponry.
.

But isn't that sort of like going to a planet to steal/sabotage the ancient alien race beacon so the current population has no idea how to stop whats going to happen, only to fuck up, not destroy the beacon and in fact have said message intercepted by Buzz Lightyear?

 

[Kitschkraft]

Right, when your previous villain is an ancient robot squid, it does make it even more silly when the final boss of the sequel is a giant robo skelly bones with three eyes who is a baby made out of people goo.


Also something I never realized that someone on another site brought up: throughout the entire game they keep talking about "the mission" and how they might not come back and how they need a team, etc. And since you'd been tuned into the ME2 marketing, you knew it was a "suicide mission" against the Collectors.

But in the game, nobody actually explains why it's a suicide mission because nobody knows what they're going to do on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay. There's no planning, there's no speculation about what's on the other side except more Collectors, nothing. It's not until they get there and crash the Normandy 2 on the base that they finally go "Hmm, now let's make a plan of attack here."

It's just, "It's a suicide mission! We'll need the best small squad of elite fighters, hackers, and scientists in the galaxy to take them down." When in reality, nobody knows what's on the other side or what the mission actually is. What if there were two Collector bases? What if it was some kind of solar system of Collectors? Or there was a (adult) Reaper there? How the fuck would a small 13-man team in a cruiser take down that?

But no, it's conveniently just a single base that can be taken down by a team comprised of unique little snowflakes perfectly suited for its obstacles.

Yeah, I've been saying this for some time. The way they pushed that "suicide mission" thing never really sat well with me. It's like some guy in marketing came up with a "fucking bad ass term" and they just ran with it for no real reason. As you said, didn't really make much sense within the story. There was also no real thematic reasons for them to push that so much, hell, Shepard gets resurrected and nobody hardly mentions it, so it's not like this "pending death" was going to be explored by the characters.

Bioware just thought they would shock people by leaving an option for Shepard and the crew to die. The thing is, you'd have to be doing the quickest run through, and have the worst judgement in the world, for this to happen (In other words, the only real way that people could die would be either not talking to any of the npc's or purposely trying to kill them off). But people who get that far in the game are surely completionist, and surely would have done at least the character sidequest by that point. It just didn't add anything to the game. Especially when you consider how Bioware didn't even get that right, lol. Tons of people had Mordin killed because somehow, Mordin is supposed to lead the survivors back to the ship. DUMB!

I wouldn't mind them exploring the "pick companions for the right task" mechanic, but it's going to have to be significantly more nuanced and well written for it to mean anything. Those kinds of decisions should be based on things characters tell you about themselves, their attitudes and beliefs, etc. "We need a hacker! Oh look, there goes a robot" isn't damn good enough.

 

[The Technomancer]

But isn't that sort of like going to a planet to steal/sabotage the ancient alien race beacon so the current population has no idea how to stop whats going to happen, only to fuck up, not destroy the beacon and in fact have said message intercepted by Buzz Lightyear?

Saren's only real mistake there is deciding to use planted charges as opposed to just having Sovereign level the place from orbit.

 

[Terak]

Mass Effect 1 - this game is great, i love it

Mass Effect 2 - this game is a piece of shit, completely overhyped, i hate it

Mass Effect 3 - i dont have time for this shit

 

[Fimbulvetr]

But isn't that sort of like going to a planet to steal/sabotage the ancient alien race beacon so the current population has no idea how to stop whats going to happen, only to fuck up, not destroy the beacon and in fact have said message intercepted by Buzz Lightyear?

There's a difference between "I didn't expect that human asshole to foil my plans."

and

"We got Shep's girlfriend. Fuck she's way too heavy to carry back to the ship, let's just leave her behind this random crate."

Hell, at the very least Saren got what he wanted.

 

[truly101]

Saren's only real mistake there is deciding to use planted charges as opposed to just having Sovereign level the place from orbit.

Well its actually Sovereign's mistake because he used mind control on Saren and Benezia.

 

[HDgaming42]

Fellow Mako driver here. I can understand the complaints, but was planet scanning an improvement? Not for me--I enjoyed exploring those desolate planets. It made coming across a wreck or an animal skull all the more rewarding.

The Mako missions needed refining, not scorching.

Also--can't stand the "navigate your micro-machine Normandy" interface in ME2. And the "MISSION COMPLETE!!!!!" point tally screen(s).

Its like they don't want you immersed in their world--DUDE, UR PLAYING A GAME AND UR ROCKING IT!!!!

 

[Atrus]

Blowing up a Relay should technically be impossible due to one of them surviving a super nova's wake.

Technically impossible in Mass Effect 1 but it turns out all you need is a large enough rock in Mass Effect 2.

I'd imagine that's how we'll defeat the Reapers in Mass Effect 3. Larger rocks.

 

[Kitschkraft]

But isn't that sort of like going to a planet to steal/sabotage the ancient alien race beacon so the current population has no idea how to stop whats going to happen, only to fuck up, not destroy the beacon and in fact have said message intercepted by Buzz Lightyear?

LOL, Saren leaving the beacon might be a plothole, but it's incomparable to some of the things in ME2. Ashley/Kaiden being alive after getting zapped was simply ridiculous, the kind of hole that EVERYONE notices the first time through.

Shepard getting the beacon is also pretty much the entire *point* of the story, and it's his entire reason for being "special" in ME1. It had to happen for there to be a story.

 

[Piecake]

Personally, I prefer ME2 to ME1 because the gameplay was a lot more fun, the characters were much improved, and it got rid of the stuff that severely bogged down ME1.

If the mako, rpg mechanics were actually well executed in ME1 and the characters be actual characters instead of exposition bots, I think I would have a different opinion because I do feel that the plot is stronger in ME1 and the music is definitely better. The problem is, is that is not the case.

Sure, the mako levels and planet exploration were great ideas, but my god, it was executed so poorly that i hated every minute being in that damn vehicle. ME1 probably has the worst inventory system that I have ever played. It totally killed the pacing for me because I felt obliged to go into my menu every freaking time that i got some new item, and you got a ton of new items. Not to mention just equiping, deleting, and managing those items were a horrid pain.

There really was no feature for me in ME2 that sparked absolute loathing and hatred like ME1. And personally, I prefer the story of ME2 to ME1. Note that I am including characters into that category since ME2's story was about your companions. I simply found ME2's cast so much better than ME1. Much better developed, more interesting, and better dialogue. Would I have liked more dialogue? Sure, but the dialogue we got was mostly character focused dialogue, unlike simple world-building exposition like in ME1.

The villains were definitely better in ME1 though.

So yes, I am actually looking forward to ME3 a lot because they got an awesome composer, the plot should be better since its the finale, and the rpg mechanics will be improved, but not 'improved' to the horrid levels of ME1

 

[truly101]

There's a difference between "I didn't expect that human asshole to foil my plans."

and

"We got Shep's girlfriend. Fuck she's way too heavy to carry back to the ship, let's just leave her behind this random crate."

Hell, at the very least Saren got what he wanted.

Maybe its just me, but I seem to remember that born leader and his crack team of specialists arrived while the collectors were getting their collect on? That might have had something to do with it.

 

[truly101]

LOL, Saren leaving the beacon might be a plothole, but it's incomparable to some of the things in ME2. Ashley/Kaiden being alive after getting zapped was simply ridiculous, the kind of hole that EVERYONE notices the first time through.

Shepard getting the beacon is also pretty much the entire *point* of the story, and it's his entire reason for being "special" in ME1. It had to happen for there to be a story.

How is it a plothole when it was established by Mordin the bug venom put people in a statis, it didn't kill them?

 

[Reuenthal]

Both games are two of the best games of this generation. Mass Effect gives a great sci fi universe, and does world building pretty successfully with and has one of the best videogame stories, especially its ending. It also has pretty good main quests, and I like the backstory of the planets and even visiting some on Mako. There is level repetition, Barren levels, mako controls are not the best and it will get boring eventually but I liked having Sheppard visit some planets. And the sheer idea of having the option. Beyond the main quest the side quests are plentiful which is good but the non main planets that is non main sidequests aren't good really. It's Main planets, like Noveria are better than what is to find at Mass Effect 2, they feel more like actual places and there was more interactivity with NPC and things to do. But there are fewer than in Mass Effect 2.

The second allows you to visit more planets that are not barren shitholes and see more of alien foreign cultures, its main story is much worse, it has more characters and better develops them characters, but their greatest moments are not main story related usually. Also less random sidequests, than Mass Effect more sidequests that have good content. It also has better combat.

Overall I enjoyed them about the same, with both having some advantages over the other and both being great games who stand very well compared to other games.

Bioware's Dragon Age Origin is another great game which also has some flaws and isn't perfect despite being a great game.

Now DA2, that one was a stinker.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Those ME screens are beautiful MrOogieBoogie

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Maybe its just me, but I seem to remember that born leader and his crack team of specialists arrived while the collectors were getting their collect on? That might have had something to do with it.

Yeah. I mean it's not like:

1)they were specifically looking for Shep's companion

2)said companion was one of the first people to be paralyzed by the seekers

3)they had already been collecting people for a while before shepard arrived.

4)one of the people within about 4 feet of the companion is later in the collector base meaning they did, in fact, collect the people within the companion's area

That would just make the collectors look extremely pathetic.

How is it a plothole when it was established by Mordin the bug venom put people in a statis, it didn't kill them?

How did Mordin get that bug?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

People should complain less about Mass Effect 2 and more about Mass Effect 1. The latter game was broken, filled with bloat, had universally boring characters (except for Wrex and Ashley), re-used bland locations almost as much as Dragon Age 2, was mediocre at story and dialogue and downright bad at gameplay. It was a fundamentally dumbed-down game and a significant step down from Baldur's Gate 2.

ME2 had problems, sure, but the action was actually half-competent and the characters were infinitely more interesting. The writing was generally better (the Mordin Solus stuff was a clear standout) and the scenarios were less repetitive and more distinct. There were inconsistencies and retcons from the first game, of course, but who cares when the first game was so mediocre?

Goddammit, this. I cannot even begin to express how superior ME2 is as a game to play. The retroactive praise the game has gotten as part of the backlash against ME2 is ridiculous, so much so that everytime I walk into a thread praising the amazing exploration and outstanding story of the first game I feel like there's some sort of in-joke going on that I've missed out on.

Shit, I love hating on ME2's plot and various miscellaneous fuckups, but I'd still rather play it any day of the week than suffer through ME1 again.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

In ME1 the Council acted in a completely reasonable fashion regarding Shepard and his Reaper and Saren warnings. However, Shepard Can't Be Held Down By The Man, so BioWare tries to present this as a bunch of obstinate old politicos who can't see the truth as revealed in cutscenes where neither they nor Shepard was present.

With regards to Saren, a young Alliance soldier comes in claiming that the top Spectre operative just organized a terrorist attack against a peaceful colony with an army of robots that haven't been seen in civilized space in hundreds of years. His evidence: a dock worker and criminal, who was asleep during the attack, said during a gunpoint interrogation (being held by the same soldier bringing the charges) that a turian named Saren shot Nihlus. WELL THEN OPEN AND SHUT CASE. Also, the soldier's mentor is a man who has a long-standing grudge against Saren and apparently a history of accusations that have never been proven.

Now, you, the glorious Shepard-Conduit, the Player, saw that cutscene where Saren shot Nihlus and rode away on the monorail and then shouted at Benezia in that weird room in Sovereign (where was that, why was there a room with a table and chair in there). Why can't these fools see the truth (that nobody saw)!?

Also it doesn't help that during the meeting, Shepard's option is to A) claim it's Saren's racist conspiracy against poor humans, B) make a smug jackoff statement about how the Council's already decided, or C) basically tell the jury in your court case that they're idiots. Nice military professionalism there, douche.


But alright then, you guys want proof then we'll give you proof an- oh they accept it unconditionally about 2 seconds after they hear it, which actually seems kind of crazy but whatever. And then they make you a space commando in a great honor for your species after about a minute of thinking it over.

Well... they're still jerks, because they didn't believe your haphazard conclusion that a magical bad dream you had and a word in the recording mean that the Protheans were wiped out by ancient machine gods that are coming back right now. This theory, which takes Shepard about half an instant to come up with and accept whole, is of course correct and the Council is stupid for not accepting your apocalyptic ravings and hallucinations as ironclad evidence that they should prepare their quadrillions of citizens for galactic war.

And in the end, they finally accept that the Reapers are real, and basically kiss your feet and vow to work together with you to stop them.




Now I'm exhausted, but basically in ME2 it's dumb because it takes that last part and just goes "lol jk the council doesn't believe you" even when there's absolutely no real reason for them to not believe you except to once again establish Shepard as a misunderstood prophet even when the entire galaxy saw him being proven correct two years before.

 

[The Technomancer]

Goddammit, this. I cannot even begin to express how superior ME2 is as a game to play. The retroactive praise the game has gotten as part of the backlash against ME2 is ridiculous, so much so that everytime I walk into a thread praising the amazing exploration and outstanding story of the first game I feel like there's some sort of in-joke going on that I've missed out on.

Shit, I love hating on ME2's plot and various miscellaneous fuckups, but I'd still rather play it any day of the week than suffer through ME1 again.

Nah, I consider ME1s story competent at best. Its coherent, follows a decent arc, and takes absolutely no risks. It only stands out in comparison to ME2

 

[GillianSeed79]

While I really enjoyed ME2, it did feel kind of odd story wise. Like ME1 had a beginning middle and end with the reapers ominously appearing in the veil at the end of ME1. I honestly think ME2 would have worked better if the suicide mission was an actual suicide mission. There would have been a greater impact if all your shipmates died at the end of ME2. It kind of felt Xenosaga 2-ish if you know what I mean. A cool side story mostly.

 

[jackdoe]

How did Mordin get that bug?

I always wondered this myself. Collector's SUPPOSEDLY left no traces.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I always wondered this myself. Collector's SUPPOSEDLY left no traces.

Once the Holy Paladin, Shepard, arrived, they instantly got caught on security cameras.

 

[truly101]

Yeah. I mean it's not like:

1)they were specifically looking for Shep's companion

2)said companion was one of the first people to be paralyzed by the seekers

3)they had already been collecting people for a while before shepard arrived.

4)one of the people within about 4 feet of the companion is later in the collector base meaning they did, in fact, collect the people within the companion's area

That would just make the collectors look extremely pathetic.



How did Mordin get that bug?

Didn't Cerberus find it from one of the kidnapped colonies? Sure, sure, the collectors don't leave anything behind, cept this one time (kind of like how the Reapers don't leave any trace of them behind, well except this whole plantary database...whoops) I chalked it up to them finding Tali's crazy pal who survived and they had a better idea what they were looking for. It didn't seem implausible to me. Its video games.