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Massive Fire in High Rise Apartment in London
- Thread starter superdeluxe
- Start date
autumnleaf
Member
Presumably if they identify any other high rises with the same cladding in the country people won't be able to continue living there?
Seth Enosh
Member
A properly built high rise wouldn't have these problems. Sprinkler systems, fire alarms in every room, fire extinguishers in every hallway, and two insulated exit stairwells on opposite sides of the building seem to be the standard here in the USA for modern apartment towers. With that kind of protection I feel safer here than in many single family homes.
This fire looks terrible though. I guess that's what can happen with no sprinklers.
JonnyDBrit
Member
That or they will start removing the stuff ASAP.
jellies_two
Member
Here is an old video showing fire spreading through external cladding. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQLIlIetDM
Those old English pebble-dash housing blocks maybe grim but they wouldn't have burned like this did after it got "spruced up".
Those old English pebble-dash housing blocks maybe grim but they wouldn't have burned like this did after it got "spruced up".
JonnyDBrit
Member
Damn, it really does just create a bypass of every other security measure.
Makes sense, we should endeavour to spread the population out more evenly across the country. I'm about to graduate from the University of Leeds, in the north-west, and so many people I know are planning to move down to London for work -- even people who grew up around here.
It's cool that our capital is alluring, but there's only so much space in the zones as they are.
Wow, so they took a fireproof structure and made one wall into an ignition source.
While the facts are still not established, it is clear that there are multiple failures that contributed to this tragedy. Failures that on paper shouldn't have happened.
The cladding system has an A2 rating according to their manufacturer (an Alcoa subsidiary), but clearly it was neither non-combustible (What an A rating means) nor even fire retardant (B rating).
You also have the apparent failure of the fire suppression systems (and alarms!) and most damning the ingress of the fire into the emergency escape.
So a shitshow all round.
The cladding system has an A2 rating according to their manufacturer (an Alcoa subsidiary), but clearly it was neither non-combustible (What an A rating means) nor even fire retardant (B rating).
You also have the apparent failure of the fire suppression systems (and alarms!) and most damning the ingress of the fire into the emergency escape.
So a shitshow all round.
Charles Brandon
Member
It's a complicated issue. The "social cleansing" of London is a real thing since the restrictions on housing benefit, the people in this block, unless something is done for them and I can't imagine what that would be, are most probably never moving back into the borough and many of them will struggle to stay in the city full stop.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Charles Brandon
Member
It's concrete on steel. Concrete does not melt. the TTs did not have concrete.
Diablohead
Member
That cladding was just fuel! did they never test these imported tiles? (if they were)
This building was built around the same time as the Twin Towers.
That's why regulations were brought in. It seems all cladding now needs to meet BR135, which is supposed to prevent that.
Although I'm not sure quite how the regulation applies to buildings >18M (it seems that studies can be used to potentially bypass the strict regulations).
always crazy bacon
Banned
What? In the one year after the Twin Towers were built?
OverBlood 3
Banned
The twin towers and grenfell tower were built pretty much at the same time in the early 70s.
The part that caught fire was the thing that was added most recently.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Never, ever underestimate the power of greed. Saving a few 100k in building materials is well worth a few hundred people dying to most of the 1% or corporations that own big buildings like this.
Mind that the towers were hit by a plane. Very different than a local fire that spreads.
Goes to show the difference in construction techniques (innovative steel tube/plate vs. reinforced concrete) and the extent of the damage (impact of an airplane full of jet fuel vs. fire spread on the non-structural external wall).
Charles Brandon
Member
well worth the small risk of people dying. Not that I'm condoning it but it's not like they expected this would happen, they just assumed it wouldn't.
I mean it's a good thing this London tower didn't have a jumbo jet slam into it at full speed. Who knows how quickly it would have crumpled had that happened.
Well there you go. So the Twin Towers were primarily steel while Grenfell was concrete?
ResidentDante
Member
That's one thing I often wonder about redecorating stuff just for looks, it just becomes less durable.
Where I grew up in Norway we had these super ugly stone pebble and concrete bus shelters. Sure they looked shit and usually smelt like urine, but they stood there unharmed and were crap to graffiti on the outside because of the pebbles. Later they replaced them with wooden and glass, fancy bus shelters. They were tagged down, smashed and burned within a couple of years everywhere.
That and finding the best thing you can do for your baby is throw them out of a tenth storey window.
Yes, also the TT were designed with an innovative structural system that allowed for column-free floors at the expense of redundancy in the structure. Once enough structure had been weakened by impact and fire, collapse was inevitable.
A more traditionally designed steel tower of similar size would probably have survived.
The refurbishment was primarlily for efficiency. New windows and thermal insulation, and a modern central heating system.
Fuck. That's full on. I had no idea. Thanks for the info!
jellies_two
Member
Dummies on twitter using this fire to pump 9/11 demolition theories. Yuck.
One thing I wonder is why doesn't London fire brigades have some higher water ladders? It seemed like they could spray only up to like the 10th floor or so. And only one platform seemed to be there. (32m)
Chicago has devices for 26 floors look at this monster
http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2015/01/worlds-tallest-firefighting-aerial-device/
One thing I wonder is why doesn't London fire brigades have some higher water ladders? It seemed like they could spray only up to like the 10th floor or so. And only one platform seemed to be there. (32m)
Chicago has devices for 26 floors look at this monster
http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2015/01/worlds-tallest-firefighting-aerial-device/
I guess the reasoning was that London doesn't have all that many buildings with more than ten stories?
Which if so we can see is probably flawed reasoning.
Charles Brandon
Member
less tall residential buildings I guess. London is typically quite low rise.
JonnyDBrit
Member
After googling... possibly not?
http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/150/bronto-skylift-volvo-fl10-aerial-platform.asp
Roughly a third of the Chicago one. Which might be a similar issue to the risks taken with the cladding - high rise fires of this nature happening so little that they could take the risk.
Charles Brandon
Member
BattleMonkey
Member
The towers were hit by planes, the impact and explosions themselves caused a ton of structural damage before even the fires.
Also such high rises like the twin towers are built to have some sway to them cause of wind strain on buildings.
ODDI
Member
Jeez that's terrible.
This is horrifying. At 1:15am, everyone are sleeping soundly in their beds. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNWVpOMJb6s
It's literally the entire building, every room appears to be engulfed by flames. Horrible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNWVpOMJb6s
It's literally the entire building, every room appears to be engulfed by flames. Horrible.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Appreciate the info. Didn't want anyone jumping to conclusions. Thanks. Sounds like there will be some legal action once things can be assessed. If these problems caused or helped the fire then the tragedy is made worse knowing that it could have been avoided. Behind on any new info-will have to check in on developments since these replies. Thanks again.
I see reports of deaths now. Incredibly sad.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Jesus, read about the Mum throwing her baby out of the window from the 10th floor and some guy actually caught it. What an awful way to go though, if they really were warned about this heads need to roll.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Jesus that video......the entire side of the building is raging within minutes.....
There is no chance in he'll for fire fighters to either respond or control a fire like that where the structure of the building itself is the fuel for the fire....
Well as far as I can tell this building didn't have a 90 tonne aircraft flying at 300MPH crash into it so.......
If it's going as high up the political ladder as some sites are suggesting I imagine they will.
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